PROMETHEUS UNMARKED SPOILER THREAD!

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So I watched Alien last night. 2 questions.

Why did Ripley try to disarm the bomb? "Oh shit Alien dude and I torched the whole crew, better try to disarm the bombs I set 5 minutes ago." Just didn't understand that.

Was the Alien on her ship at the end injured or something? Either that or he thought that looked like a cozy place to take a nap.

That's all I was wondering about. Other than that it was a great movie and makes a hell of a lot more sense than it did the first time I saw it 20+ years ago.

She disarmed the bomb because the alien was between her and escape. She wanted to live. So her plan was to disarm the bomb, try to wait it out a little longer, re-arm it and get into the shuttle.

Initially, before the life cycle of the alien was altered in Aliens, there was a theory going around that the Alien was nearing the end of it's life span. But maybe you could argue it was slowing up because it was trying to shed it's skin again or sleepy.
 
So shouldn't everything have their DNA, not just humans??

but who created the engineers?

the super-engineers

Maybe, maybe not. The movie doesn't say. We know they are somehow involved with the development of human beings as a species. We can only speculate beyond that.

I could've sworn that on that planet where the engineer sacrificed himself with the goo, there were trees and other growth, so he couldn't have seeded all life.

Honestly, the comment was more of a joke.

These are valid points though, so I'm going to go ahead and say that the planet we at the beginning isn't Earth. It's probably one of the other planets we see in the map room.

Makes more sense to assume the planet isn't earth.
 
* Weyland's speech about how Prometheus was cast out from Mount Olympus made me think back to the sole Engineer we saw at the beginning of the movie. IF the movie is not exactly subtle about its allegory then I guess it's safe to say that he's our 'Prometheus'. This is going to go into speculation territory. IF he is our 'Prometheus' then it'd mean that he was cast out into Earth for something that he did. Assuming that the substance was meant to kill him, then it'd also mean that our creation was not intended. We were an accident born from an attempt to abort 'Prometheus' life, so to speak. But again, this is a lot of speculations and it'll depend on two things: that the Engineer meant to die and the substance was indeed meant to kill him but instead seeded his gene into our DNA.

You can draw an allegory here, but I don't think this one is intentional. As I saw it, Weyland was the one who wanted to steal fire from the Gods, so to speak. For the sake of argument though, I'll help you flesh your allegory out here.

The judgement / torment of Prometheus is not literally 1 : 1 here. The important part would be sacrifice. The Engineer killed himself to give intelligence or possibly more generally, possibly just life to a planet. It is inteligence that is the source of the Engineer's power, the Fire in this case. The punishment of Prometheus is equivelant to his sacrifice, not literal judgement from his peers.

The Christian symbology is far, far more heavily ingrained in this film that anything from Greek mythology, though. The Engineer giving his life to grant life to the human race is a fairly obvious allegory for the Christian belief system. I would almost say that, given the content of the rest of the film, it was far too heavy handed.


* The whole "We find this cave painting in every past civilizations" suggest to me that the Engineers have paid multiple visits to each separate civilizations. It's impossible otherwise for these civilizations, most of whom have no connection to previous civilizations, to come up with the same drawing. Especially if you know most of these civilizations died/perished before the next big one come up. So my only assumption is that in order for these civilizations to even depict the planet configurations of the Engineers, someone must have shown them that. The only explanation I can come up with is that some Engineers have paid a visit to each past civilization.

I thought this was common knowledge. They obviously visited multiple times, since in addition to what you just said, they were tampering with our evolutionary history (which was occurring a LOOOOOONG time before cave paintings showed up).


* What if the cave painting was left behind in case they can't get to us in time before our civilizations reach its peak like now when knowledge and technology are in abundance? Maybe it's a way for them to spring a trap for us, which explains them leading us to a military base instead of their homeworld. But then the event of 2000 years ago came into existence. What could this be?

They were going to destroy us thousands of years prior to us making contact with them, so I don't think this fits very well. There is also a very big question regarding motivation. If they wanted to spring a trap, it would serve them better to have the trap laying on a closer celestial body, such as the Moon. That way you get them before interstellar spaceflight is a thing, and before they have several off-world colonies. It's just more efficient, you know?


* ASSUMING that this is the event where one Engineer got crucified (aka he's the Space Jesus), then this is the point where they realized how dangerous our species can be. Maybe it's also the point where they realized they can't just wipe us out using normal means. Maybe this is when they start altering the properties of the trans-mutation substance to create the Xenomorph. They were meant to be weapons to destroy us. But before they can use it, the outbreak happened and so on.

They could just wipe us out with normal means, though. The Roman military circa 30AD is not going to be able to put up a fight versus space-giants in space-armor with space-guns backed up by space-based-weapons. They could have done the trick with conventional bioweapons that only target humans, without bothering to mess around with something so dangerous.


* Someone else probably has pointed this one out. But this time around I realized that the chamber where they found the severed head functions more or less like a decontamination chamber. The trans-mutation substance didn't start to leak out of the urns until the door was opened. The Engineer who decapitated his head probably did the decapitation on purpose. Maybe he was infected and the only way to stop the infection was to decapitated his head so that it'll be contained in the decontamination chamber along with the other urns. The question is, what is so different between these urns and the ones seen near the Engineers' control room? If these ones easily leak when the door is opened, why are the ones near in the Engineers' control room are fine when exposed to air?

I believe they only leaked when the air changed, not when exposed to any air at all. The air was changing because the idiots took their helmets off in the room and altered the moisture/CO2 levels.

It's moronic, but they were probably designed to deploy their goop when they were let out into the open on Earth, but not when they were in the well-controlled air of that chamber. I say it's moronic because while "possible", it's such a dumb way to do things. It's an accident waiting to happen.
 
I could've sworn that on that planet where the engineer sacrificed himself with the goo, there were trees and other growth, so he couldn't have seeded all life.

Second time I saw the movie I specifically looked for trees and growth and did not see any. It was a dead planet ... There was water though
 
I could've sworn that on that planet where the engineer sacrificed himself with the goo, there were trees and other growth, so he couldn't have seeded all life.

I saw it again last night, and made a point of trying to spot details like this. Yes, there is plant life visible in the opening pans.

Also, this movie does not get better on subsequent viewings, though to be fair I was tired to the point of pretty much falling asleep briefly a couple of times.


JB1981 said:
Second time I saw the movie I specifically looked for trees and growth and did not see any. It was a dead planet ... There was water though

There was "green stuff" covering the hills in a couple of the opening shots, either grasses, low brush, or moss. No trees though.
 
* David was seen consuming food and drinks at the start of the movie, which is amusing because I assume his body doesn't need the nutrient and no one is watching him eating. So I really don't understand why he does it anyway since it doesn't have the purpose of making other humans feel at ease by giving them impression that he's just like them (look at him, he eats like us!)

I think that's still fuel for them. Didn't Ash and Bishop also drink/eat some white-looking slop too?
 
I believe they only leaked when the air changed, not when exposed to any air at all. The air was changing because the idiots took their helmets off in the room and altered the moisture/CO2 levels.

I got the impression that this happened, not because of their helemts, but because they opened the door. I doubt that a small group of guys with suits would have affected things that greatly when the air was already breathable. However, that room might have been sealed air tight and the new non-stale air caused the disrupt.
 
She disarmed the bomb because the alien was between her and escape. She wanted to live. So her plan was to disarm the bomb, try to wait it out a little longer, re-arm it and get into the shuttle.

Initially, before the life cycle of the alien was altered in Aliens, there was a theory going around that the Alien was nearing the end of it's life span. But maybe you could argue it was slowing up because it was trying to shed it's skin again or sleepy.

Thanks.
 
I got the impression that this happened, not because of their helemts, but because they opened the door. I doubt that a small group of guys with suits would have affected things that greatly when the air was already breathable. However, that room might have been sealed air tight and the new non-stale air caused the disrupt.


I could have sworn there was a line in the movie about how it was reacting to changing moisture something something. Regardless, it's still a pretty stupid trigger mechanism to have lying around like that.
 
I like this interpretation of the film, which the infamous SomethingAwful film enthusiast SuperMechaGodzilla posted on their movie board. At this point, it starts to make more sense than anything else.

"Well let's get down to brass tacks: this film is hilarious.

Guy Pearce in an old man suit appears out of nowhere, says "i want immortality," and then gets bludgeoned to death with Michael Fassbender's still-conscious severed head. This is funny. No, it's the funniest film I've seen in theatres since District 9.

Weyland's death is a stock ironic comeuppance played for extreme camp. The film glosses over it because it know that this is a trope. The glib speed with which it dismisses the search for immortality is the same with which it dismisses all the other characters' motivations. Dude say he wants money? DIES. Dude says he wants friendship? DIES. These aren't random deaths. They are equated by this same tone and attitude. Humans are stupid and die because they're stupid.

David reads Liz Shaw's dreams and then tells her straight up: you are a shallow character. Her dream looks like a hallmark card. "Your entire motivation is that you're infertile and your dad died of Ebola. I just summarized it in two sentences." The moral: robots don't have souls, and neither do people. But the robot is smarter because he understands this. If you've seen Blade Runner, you know what the warm-toned recording of the dream of a happy family means. It means she's a replicant.

"It's a quote from a movie I like."

Look at the specific quote from Lawrence of Arabia: 'the trick is not minding that it hurts'. David's character feels everything the humans feel, but he doesn't mind it. He's built up his ironic distance, he constructs his own identity and puts on an incredibly campy performance. The whole film aligns with his POV. As I said in general chat, Prometheus is a masterpiece of straight-faced camp.

The very first shot is quoted from 2001 (it's a quote from a movie I like). Prometheus is transparently Scott's grand statement on Science Fiction as a genre. It's not 'hard' science fiction. It's "Science Fiction", deeply embedded in quotation marks. The Prometheus/Pandora myth is like Scifi 101, first day of class. It's THE example of mythological proto-scifi. It's referenced in Frankenstein, the first piece of Science-Fiction literature. Alien references it. The films that Alien references reference it. The films that reference Alien reference it.

So the characters fly into space seeking all the answers to their questions, and what do they find? A rational, promethan man locked in an unending struggle against a irrational, pandoric vagina monster. Just slapping against eachother until there is a literal, onscreen shuddering climax and postcoital release. Again: this is funny! You can imagine people staring at this scene and saying "hmm... what does this all mean?" Or, better yet: "how did the squid monster grow so big without a food source?" - just angrily looking for logical clues in this prolonged sequence of a vagina and penis locked in combat.

Scott's grand statement on sci-fi is to issue a moratorium. The point of Prometheus is that these stories pretty much always boil down to the same basic archetypal conflict. The humans are painfully mundane - they are all artificial. Only David sees through the guise and understands that he's a character in a movie. This is a loving ode to gleefully bad sci-fi.

Important scene: Naomi Rapace looks at some bleeps and bloops on a screen. Two bar graphs allign. "This is it," she cries. "This is everything!" We cut back to the bar graph, and watch it bleep and bloop a while longer. Wow, what an impressive bar graph. Next scene, it turns out she just wants to get fucked.

There are two distinct scenes in the film of wacky dames who just need a good deep-dicking. One gets an abortion, the other crushed by a huge black protuberance. A guy smokes pot and then dies instantly. This is Friday the 13th logic. The class conflict in Alien is notably absent. All these people are rich idiots, so we're not supposed to cheer for them. Idris Elba, the closest thing to a 'lower class' character puts on a Southern Accent, says YEEHAW! and rockets his ship into a wall to save the day. Michael Bay would give an approving nod.

Why is there a zombie scene? Because it's wonderful slapstick. He gets shot like fifty times and his head gets run over. I couldn't stop laughing. But more importantly, the 'zombie' exists to shows us what Charlie was turning into. For a second, I though it was Charlie, back from the dead. Again, this treats the characters as slightly interchangable.

There are at least two shots lifted straight from Luigi Cozzi's (in)famous Italian Alien ripoff Contamination.

Prometheus owns. "
 
I still don't get this, I think this is a glaring hole unless someone can explain. So the engineer consumed the black goo, which disintegrated him into molecules and started abiogenesis or whatever. It is later revealed that because they created us, we share the same exact DNA. If all biological life came from those little cells and molecules from that engineer, why do humans have their DNA and other animals develop different DNA? That doesn't make any sense to me.
 
I could have sworn there was a line in the movie about how it was reacting to changing moisture something something. Regardless, it's still a pretty stupid trigger mechanism to have lying around like that.

There is a line about that... are you thinking that change in moisture is caused by their breathing?

I guess it just seems more likely to me that room was climate controlled and just opening the door affected it negatively.
 
I still don't get this, I think this is a glaring hole unless someone can explain. So the engineer consumed the black goo, which disintegrated him into molecules and started abiogenesis or whatever. It is later revealed that because they created us, we share the same exact DNA. If all biological life came from those little cells and molecules from that engineer, why do humans have their DNA and other animals develop different DNA? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Scott mentions that the Engineers gave us genetic upgrades over the years. Maybe they specifically wanted to duplicate themselves, only that this would be an experiment that takes thousands of years.

Maybe that's why they were so offended by David. Humans created something that on the surface is exactly like them, but on the inside, is nothing alike. Engineers created an exact copy of themselves, right down to the dna.
 
I still don't get this, I think this is a glaring hole unless someone can explain. So the engineer consumed the black goo, which disintegrated him into molecules and started abiogenesis or whatever. It is later revealed that because they created us, we share the same exact DNA. If all biological life came from those little cells and molecules from that engineer

It didn't as there is already plant life visible in the opening sequence.


why do humans have their DNA and other animals develop different DNA? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Pretty much the only thing that makes sense(!) is that the only thing the Engineers created, at that moment at least, was humans i.e. "God" creating us in "his" image.
 
That's the way I grok'd it in the cinema, yeah.

Interesting. I mean, I guess it's possible... but I wouldn't have thought the mural and such would change that quickly with just their breath. Definitely localized effects would seem likely. That said... I guess I wouldn't put it past them to make that be the reason either. Hard to say since there were a number of factors that could have caused it in the long run :/
 
It didn't as there is already plant life visible in the opening sequence.




Pretty much the only thing that makes sense(!) is that the only thing the Engineers created, at that moment at least, was humans i.e. "God" creating us in "his" image.

That's what I originally thought, but then I've seen suggestions in this thread that they created everything. I saw the plant life in the opening sequence as well.
 
Moar sex allegory/jokes:

* I learned back in my screen studies class that Alien can be seen as an allegory for fear of the gheys. Seeing men being penetrated by phallus-like object. But back then you can only get away with scenes of a man being attacked before we cut to black/other scenes. So I just can't believe Ridley got away with showing a man taking a figurative phallus object on the mouth this time around in "Prometheus". Twice.

* Also if one feels cheeky about it, one can argue that the 2nd man taking phallus object on his mouth can mean something different. The phallus object that penetrates the Engineer's mouth comes from vagina-looking creature. Does that mean that some women harbors the desire to penetrate a man using a strap-on? :P
 
That's what I originally thought, but then I've seen suggestions in this thread that they created everything.

Their DNA being an exact match for that of humans kind of dispels that.

Though that being said, their DNA being an exact match for humans kind of creates a big issue given the DNA described descent of man from lower life forms.

Pretty much I can only assume the writers just really didn't think that bit through, because it just doesn't hold up no matter how you try to interpret it.
 
I honestly don't know where to begin with my utter and complete disappointment with this film. After seeing it last night, I was actually ANGRY about the wasted potential of what I had just witnessed. Somewhere in there, there's a complex, thought-provoking sci-fi film that's been buried under absolutely atrocious writing and characterization.

This was just a great-looking horribly PATHETIC piece of film-making. I really don't give a damn that nothing was explained as I'm TOTALLY FINE with ambiguity because I'm pretty damned sure that whatever answers they come up with will be VASTLY more retarded than the offspring of a sexual act between a Palin and a Kennedy. What I'm NOT FUCKING FINE WITH AT ALL are the complete tonal jumps and inexplicable character actions that predominate the second part of the film. There is no transition, no sense of motivational change...ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

In fact, NOTHING in this movie has any "weight" whatsoever. Supposedly significant events and revelations are treated with about the same level of gravitas that I use when ordering a pizza from Papa John's. Jesus Christ, FUCKING AVATAR took events more seriously than this supposedly intelligent sci-fi epic! FUCKING AVATAR!!!

You get a series of Mass Effect 3 ending like info dumps that come out of SOMEONE'S ASS with absolutely no prior indication that they would possess such knowledge. I'm pretty goddamned sure there's about 45 minutes of footage on the cutting room floor that might help out, but I'm convinced that it will not help alleviate the rest of the flaws of this OBJECTIVELY BAD movie.

Fuck Ridley Scott, the director.
Fuck Ridley Scott, the producer.
Fuck Damon Lindelof, the writer.
 
why do humans have their DNA and other animals develop different DNA? That doesn't make any sense to me.
Every animal on Earth shares most of its DNA. There's that statistic bandied around about how genetically identical we are to chimpanzees, but it's like, well, duh, why wouldn't we be?
 
Moar sex allegory/jokes:

* I learned back in my screen studies class that Alien can be seen as an allegory for fear of the gheys. Seeing men being penetrated by phallus-like object. But back then you can only get away with scenes of a man being attacked before we cut to black/other scenes. So I just can't believe Ridley got away with showing a man taking a figurative phallus object on the mouth this time around in "Prometheus". Twice.

* Also if one feels cheeky about it, one can argue that the 2nd man taking phallus object on his mouth can mean something different. The phallus object that penetrates the Engineer's mouth comes from vagina-looking creature. Does that mean that some women harbors the desire to penetrate a man using a strap-on? :P

Have fun: http://metaphilm.com/index.php/detail/alien/

These days it’s sometimes hard to talk seriously about the ethics of sex. That’s where the Alien movies come in. Of course, with four directors, figuring out what they’ve got to say is another story.

“Within each seed, there is a promise of a flower, and within each death, no matter how small, there is always a new life. A new beginning.” —Dillon, Alien³

In 1979, Ridley Scott filled theatres with the most terrifying science fiction film of all time: Alien. At the time, it was hailed as a superb thriller and a genre film light-years ahead of its time. What few realize is that Alien and its three sequels are bearers of serious moral criticisms and explorations in the realm of sexuality. As with any good horror flick, it’s really all about the dangers that come upon those who misuse sex.

Alien (Ridley Scott, 1979)—Feminism and the Return of Priapus
Aliens (James Cameron, 1986)—Gender Reintegration, the Untraditional Family, and Ancient Matriarchy
Alien³ (1992, David Fincher)—Aggressive Patriarchy and Freedom of Choice
Alien: Resurrection (1997, Jean-Pierre Jeunet)—Brave New World

Full article is worth reading:)
 
*snicker* It's like you jumped straight to anger stage bypassing denial completely.

But yeah, it's the missed oportunities that makes the film so frustrating. The potential was there but it never took off completely.

At least we got a kick ass artbook out of the movie and some amazing visuals. Always look for the positives.
 
Fuck that...I want a DC...even if the DC probably cannot help answer even 1 significant question. lol

I'm about 90% sure that Ridley only said that because he wanted to make sure people went into the theater. If he had said "Well, what's going into theaters is a bastardized version of the movie I want to make, but it's all good because the Bluray will be perfect!"

Probably wouldn't go over so well.
 
Have fun: http://metaphilm.com/index.php/detail/alien/

Full article is worth reading:)

The funny thing is the allegory didn't come up to me when I saw it for the first time at normal cinema. But IMAX makes everything looks so huge so when it happened I went "Holy sh*t, Millburn takes that HUGE c*ck like pro!".

By the time the Engineer got it, I was snickering all over the place because he resisted so hard and yet still take it like champ in the end. XD
 
I'm about 90% sure that Ridley only said that because he wanted to make sure people went into the theater. If he had said "Well, what's going into theaters is a bastardized version of the movie I want to make, but it's all good because the Bluray will be perfect!"

Probably wouldn't go over so well.

Isn't the difference here that the theatrical release of this is what he wanted in theaters? I vaguely remember him complaining about the cuts he was forced to make to KpH before release.
 
Wait...I just remember something...the med-pod said it was only for males...does that mean Meredith Vickers is a male? Janek+Vickers had gay sex...
 
The funny thing is the allegory didn't come up to me when I saw it for the first time at normal cinema. But IMAX makes everything looks so huge so when it happened I went "Holy sh*t, Millburn takes that HUGE c*ck like pro!".

By the time the Engineer got it, I was snickering all over the place because he resisted so hard and yet still take it like champ in the end. XD

It smiled as it entered his mouth.

...

True story.
 
Ahhh...but wait did she know her father was on-board? I thought only David knew...

She knew, remember the scene where she's standing ominously in the corridor after he talks to stasis Weyland? Or the scene where she asks if anyone died after she awakes from stasis?
 
I can't read all of the theories, but here is mine.

Intro engineer is deliberately seeding a planet. His self-sacrifice is because the engineers believe/worship in evolution and think it is worthy of the sacrifice. He clearly isn't a radical splinter element because engineers have returned to earth so see the progress and give humans guidance on where to go to learn of their origins/get their own evolutionary hastening black goo. This isn't necessarily the engineer home world, perhaps it no longer exists or the engineers are smart enough to NOT tell every upcoming civilization where to find their women.

At some point the black goo, which may be semi-sentient, is developed to the point where it sparks creation of the xenomorph. This is the apex of evolution of life. Everything leads to it, even if there are some intermediary stages. This causes a rift in the engineers, some worship this final stage in their evolution, others fear it. A plan is launched to spread the xeno black goo to their primitive seeded worlds and the black goo breaks out on LV223. The final engineer is in stasis because he is waiting to verify the plan is carried out, he is afraid of the black goo, who knows.

However, when he wakes up he sees humans. But what talks to him is a SYNTHETIC human, probably an abomination in the eyes of the engineer. He realizes humans have strayed WAY off the path (either he wanted them xenomorphed or saved, still doesn't like androids) and decides to end the threat. This would explain his hulk rage and his desire to hunt down Shaw despite her relative defenselessness.

Anyway, it doesn't cover all the logic gaps, but might explain most of the engineer stuff. If I had to explain LV426 I'd say the engineer there was carrying a load of eggs to some destination but got infected himself along the way. That alien may have been asleep when the Nostromo visited. The same alien could have headed over and become the Queen of the Aliens movies, though I'd rather believe that a solo alien could morph into a queen on its own and a queen inhibits other queens from forming.
 
It smiled as it entered his mouth.

...

True story.

Well, I'd assume juicy c*cks were hard to come by for him since most of his buddies have died.

I'm no biologist, so maybe I'm missing something; but if the engineers and us have the same exact DNA, why aren't we huge and completely white?

It's a staple of sci-fi stories that our DNA markers are not complete and scientists are still trying to figure out how to complete these markers. When Shaw matched our DNA markers with the DNA markers of the Engineers, the Engineers' DNA not only match our existing ones but also filled in the gaps that were missing. The difference is the reason why we don't inherit their tall stature or their complexion. Humans' DNA markers are incomplete.
 
new-prometheus-image-shows-previously-unseen-alien-105344-01-470-75.jpg


It seems there was supposed to be more than one engineer in the intro at some point.
Fuuuuuuu, that would have been great. Also, I really do love the 'clean' look of that body shot posted, eerily reminiscent of greek and roman sculptures, love it.
 
Oh well.

Lets hope ridley gives this the kingdom of heaven treatment. Extra 45 minute extended cut for blu ray.
Additional exposition could save a lot of the dumb moments, like shaw telling nobody about squid baby, the sudden reveal that "She can't create life", and the reversal of "WE NEED TO LEAVE" to "we need to go further", etc. Let's hope this happens.
 
It's a staple of sci-fi stories that our DNA markers are not complete and scientists are still trying to figure out how to complete these markers. When Shaw matched our DNA markers with the DNA markers of the Engineers, the Engineers' DNA not only match our existing ones but also filled in the gaps that were missing. The difference is the reason why we don't inherit their tall stature or their complexion. Humans' DNA markers are incomplete.
Ah so. That makes sense. Thanks.
 
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