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[duckroll]

Why did the star map lead there, instead of to the Engineer home world?

If you go with the theory that the Engineers were using Earth as a cultivation of some kind, and that they would "reset", or infect the planet when we got technologically advanced enough to reach out to them, why would you give them your home address? They left the directions to a military facility, which would be plenty equipped to handle any expedition party that would reach out, without endangering the home world. It's like leaving them the address to Guantanamo Bay instead of San Francisco.

This doesn't actually make any sense at all to me. If that's the line of thought, why would they leave behind any clues to space to begin with? They don't have to and it wouldn't make any difference. It's really just bad writing to create a plot twist unless there's a better explanation imo.

Why didn't he Immediately go nuts? Why do you think he didn't... The sense of urgency just wasn't there. He even gently touched davids head.

Lindelof is going to reveal on the commentary track on blu-ray that David actually set everyone up by insulting the guy's mother.

 

[commedieu]

This doesn't actually make any sense at all to me. If that's the line of thought, why would they leave behind any clues to space to begin with? They don't have to and it wouldn't make any difference. It's really just bad writing to create a plot twist unless there's a better explanation imo.



Lindelof is going to reveal on the commentary track on blu-ray that David actually set everyone up by insulting the guy's mother.

lol, I said something along those lines a few pages back.. Either way, I'm sure Davids Engineerese wasn't perfect. But still, if the guy wakes up and sees humans, why wait for them to yell in monkey at him for a good minute. If he really hated humans, I feel like he would have immediately killed them.

I think the fact we don't get subtitles does imply that david wasn't saying what we're expecting him to say. He might be saying "Humans are assholes and you should finish your mission." I wouldn't be surprised.

And he really wasn't listening to Weyland at that point, seemed to just be talking to the Engineer, and something bothered the Engineer and set him off.

 

[maharg]

This doesn't actually make any sense at all to me. If that's the line of thought, why would they leave behind any clues to space to begin with? They don't have to and it wouldn't make any difference. It's really just bad writing to create a plot twist unless there's a better explanation imo.



Lindelof is going to reveal on the commentary track on blu-ray that David actually set everyone up by insulting the guy's mother.

I think the fact we don't get subtitles does imply that david wasn't saying what we're expecting him to say. He might be saying "Humans are assholes and you should finish your mission." I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[GhaleonEB]

This doesn't actually make any sense at all to me. If that's the line of thought, why would they leave behind any clues to space to begin with? They don't have to and it wouldn't make any difference. It's really just bad writing to create a plot twist unless there's a better explanation imo.

Because leaving them a trail of breadcrumbs is easier than keeping such close tabs on what I assume are scores of such planets being experimented on scattered across the galaxy. Contact would mean the experiment was ready.

Why didn't he Immediately go nuts? Why do you think he didn't... The sense of urgency just wasn't there. He even gently touched davids head.

He just woke up from a 2,000 year nap. He took all of about 15 seconds for it to sink in, then got moving. Dunno, that seems pretty quick to me?

 

[Horse Detective]

I think the intro engineer was not supposed to create us. The other guys were like, "Fuck that shit" and invited the humans to kill them.


Btw, Commedieu's conclusion with David being an android, for the engineers aggression after waking up is my favorite explanation. Nothing else really makes sense, given his hesitation.

 

[duckroll]

I think the fact we don't get subtitles does imply that david wasn't saying what we're expecting him to say. He might be saying "Humans are assholes and you should finish your mission." I wouldn't be surprised.

There is another possibility. But I'm not sure I want to give the script that much credit considering how poor a lot of the characterization is. It could be that the moment he touched David, he realized that he was a synthetic, and that mankind has succeeded in creating life on their own. Maybe this is something they feared? That humanity would become gods like them.

 

[Erigu]

I think the fact we don't get subtitles does imply that david wasn't saying what we're expecting him to say. He might be saying "Humans are assholes and you should finish your mission." I wouldn't be surprised.

Problem is, the movie ended without exploring that.
Should we really expect a sequel to have a scene where the characters reminisce about that and "oh, right, this is what I actually told him: [...]"?

 

[Gvaz]

There is another possibility. But I'm not sure I want to give the script that much credit considering how poor a lot of the characterization is. It could be that the moment he touched David, he realized that he was a synthetic, and that mankind has succeeded in creating life on their own. Maybe this is something they feared? That humanity would become gods like them.

There's absolutely nothing to support it other than assumptions and interpretations, which seems to not be an intentional part of the script, but kind of a side effect.

 

[Antiochus]

No, but there's a particular class of complaint that seems to come up only when you basically already hate something. This is one of them. People watch countless horror movies where people make bad decisions and completely gloss over them because they like the movie. If they don't like it for some other (valid or not) reason, then the nails come out and it's all about niggly little things like Person X did Stupid Thing Y in Scene N.

Perhaps. An alternate explanation is that the sci-fi and horror genres are now firmly established with legions of fans, critics, and scholars along with reams and reams of memories and analysis accumulated over many years. Standards and expectations are no longer what they once were 20-30 years ago when those genres still seemed novel. Now standards and expectations have (largely) risen and matured, generally for the better,and the respective movies, especially those from flagship, tentpole franchises, need to reciprocate in kind. This is not generic SyFy channel special, but one of the most iconic, keystone franchises in cinematic history from one of the most iconic, keystone directors currently alive. We should expect better and they should have delivered it to boot.

 

[duckroll]

Because leaving them a trail of breadcrumbs is easier than keeping such close tabs on what I assume are scores of such planets being experimented on scattered across the galaxy. Contact would mean the experiment was ready.

That doesn't really seem convincing either. They were ready to destroy humanity 2000 years ago. They only apparently failed because their cargo fucked them all up or something. At that point humanity wasn't remotely in any state to even understand star maps. I really don't see this theory holding any sort of weight at all.

There's absolutely nothing to support it other than assumptions and interpretations, which seems to not be an intentional part of the script, but kind of a side effect.

I agree.

 

[maharg]

Problem is, the movie ended without exploring that.
Should we really expect a sequel to have a scene where the characters reminisce about that and "oh, right, this is what I actually told him: [...]"?

After this script would you really be surprised at such hamfisted exposition?

Perhaps. An alternate explanation is that the sci-fi and horror genres are now firmly established with legions of fans, critics, and scholars along with reams and reams of memories and analysis accumulated over many years. Standards and expectations are no longer what they once were 20-30 years ago when those genres still seemed novel. Now standards and expectations have (largely) risen and matured, generally for the better,and the respective movies, especially those from flagship, tentpole franchises, need to reciprocate in kind. This is not generic SyFy channel special, but one of the most iconic, keystone franchises in cinematic history from one of the most iconic, keystone directors currently alive. We should expect better and they should have delivered it to boot.

Huh. I think the horror genre has mostly changed for the worse. Horror movies are less scary, more direct in their exposition, more forceful in their fear-generating, and all round quite a lot less interesting.

I think that Prometheus, on all those fronts, is pretty much right in line with the development of the horror genre over the last 30 years.

 

[Erigu]

After this script would you really be surprised at such hamfisted exposition?

True. Let me rephrase that: "Do we really want a sequel where..." ^^

 

[duckroll]

After this script would you really be surprised at such hamfisted exposition?

I hope that the adventures of Naomi and Fassbender's talking head in the sequel is directed by Kevin Smith.

 

[maharg]

I hope that the adventures of Naomi and Fassbender's talking head in the sequel is directed by Kevin Smith.

You know...

I would pay double ticket price to see that. And watch it in 4d complete with migrane generator.

 

[GhaleonEB]

That doesn't really seem convincing either. They were ready to destroy humanity 2000 years ago. They only apparently failed because their cargo fucked them all up or something. At that point humanity wasn't remotely in any state to even understand star maps. I really don't see this theory holding any sort of weight at all.

Seems crystal clear to me. Outbreak prevents departure. Quarantine (which the facility was clearly under at the time of the holographic recordings) locked everyone inside. The pilots holed up in cryo, safe but locked in. Dude wakes up and resumes the mission, seeing that the species he was intending to prevent from getting this far had done so.

I was struggling with this stuff last night, but coming out of the film a second time, it all seems quite clear to me now. All the pieces are right there. (Hell, the captain spells it out at one point in case we missed it.)

 

[Rodney McKay]

After this script would you really be surprised at such hamfisted exposition?

I literally sighed when the Captain did his exposition about the place being a weapons facility. Really? That's the best way you convey that information to the audience?

 

[duckroll]

Seems crystal clear to me. Outbreak prevents departure. Quarantine (which the facility was clearly under at the time of the holographic recordings) locked everyone inside. The pilots holed up in cryo, safe but locked in. Dude wakes up and resumes the mission, seeing that the species he was intending to prevent from getting this far had done so.

I was struggling with this stuff last night, but coming out of the film a second time, it all seems quite clear to me now. All the pieces are right there. (Hell, the captain spells it out at one point in case we missed it.)

No, I'm talking about them leaving the star map in past civilizations. It makes no sense.

 

[commedieu]

Seems crystal clear to me. Outbreak prevents departure. Quarantine (which the facility was clearly under at the time of the holographic recordings) locked everyone inside. The pilots holed up in cryo, safe but locked in. Dude wakes up and resumes the mission, seeing that the species he was intending to prevent from getting this far had done so.

I was struggling with this stuff last night, but coming out of the film a second time, it all seems quite clear to me now. All the pieces are right there. (Hell, the captain spells it out at one point in case we missed it.)

But 2000 years ago, which is when they were first leaving to earth, before the cargo went apeshit, Earthlings wouldn't be a threat then. And would more than likely still be worshiping them....? Humans didn't have the means to do much of anything.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I thought young Weyland was gonna pop up as an android or some advanced "old brain in a new body" thing, not just a straight up old man.

I hoped for that. Would have loved that. Pearce can be magnetic. But it's a good opportunity to use Pearce in a sequel, where there's another copy of Weyland out there in a Pearce-body.

Scott said the title of the movie was Paradise, eventually changed to Prometheus.

Scott said Paradise had to be a disturbing place. Said fallen angels were the ones doing all the cool stuff, having sex and partying and all (figuratively). He implied that paradise is not a nice place to be, and is very different from the jockeys themselves.

God = Xenomorphs.
Paradise = Xenomorphs' planet.
Angels = Space Jockeys.
Fallen Angels = Space Jockeys after they fucked up God's plan, gave mankind starmap and such.
Xenomorphs sent Jesus (lol) to try and put mankind back on track to be submissive to God (indirectly preparing them to accept their role in God's great plan, one day). Mankind rejected Jesus, hence rejected the Xenomorphs. Mankind is fucked in the eyes of the Xenomorphs. Must be wiped out. Space Jockeys prepare to do so, but something happens, and they fail.

It really depends on which myth Scott uses. The Angels (jockeys) could have also rebelled against the Xenomorphs upon finding that God had a greater plan for mankind. Hence the Angels get attacked by God (Xenomorphs) as they attempted to go wipe out mankind. The one that survives and gets waken up tries to resume his attempt to sabotage God's (Xenomorph)'s plan.

Shaw will meet God in the second movie, but it will be a Xenomorph

WHAT.

Why didn't he Immediately go nuts? Why do you think he didn't... The sense of urgency just wasn't there. He even gently touched davids head.

I thought that was interesting. The Engineer seemed very curious and David was smiling. It was just for a moment, but I think The Engineer genuinely seemed... thoughtful? He then immediately killed everyone. Wonder if that's cause he had to, cause he was a dick, or what. But I liked that moment.

But 2000 years ago, which is when they were first leaving to earth, before the cargo went apeshit, Earthlings wouldn't be a threat then. And would more than likely still be worshiping them....? Humans didn't have the means to do much of anything.

Maybe it's cause the humans killed Jesus who was an Engineer.

Or so Scott said. Maybe he's trolling us.

 

[Dresden]

I literally sighed when the Captain did his exposition about the place being a weapons facility. Really? That's the best way you convey that information to the audience?

the movie will probably be more enjoyable watching it dubbed (in a language you don't understand with no subtitles), although it wouldn't solve any of the random stupid shit the characters pull all throughout.

 

[Gvaz]

No, I'm talking about them leaving the star map in past civilizations. It makes no sense.

It's because it is literally a MacGuffin

 

[Speedymanic]

That doesn't really seem convincing either. They were ready to destroy humanity 2000 years ago. They only apparently failed because their cargo fucked them all up or something. At that point humanity wasn't remotely in any state to even understand star maps. I really don't see this theory holding any sort of weight at all.

I'm watching the movie again later, but was there any evidence for this at any point in the movie beyond a character's interpretation of the engineer's actions after he woke up?

Maybe they weren't planning to destroy earth 2000 years ago? We don't (again, only watched it the once, so might be wrong) have any definitive proof one way or the other beyond Shaw saying they wanted to destroy earth after the engineer woke up and killed Weyland and party.

It could be as someone just mentioned, maybe the engineer turned on the humans after he realized they had created their own life in david?

Affection turns to hatred upon realizing he's touching synthetic life, something they feel only they should be able to create?

Maybe we're giving the script too much credit.

 

[GhaleonEB]

No, I'm talking about them leaving the star map in past civilizations. It makes no sense.

How does it not make sense? They're planting seeds across the galaxy. The seeds sprout, and if they sprout as expected, follow the trail left for them. If they reach the end of that trail, the guys that planted the seeds know the harvest is ready.

They were clearly keeping tabs on Earth, with visits every several thousand years to see how things were coming along. But it's a big galaxy, and I imagine they had a lot of such planets they were working on. If humans were ready for harvest between Engineer visits, this was a way left behind for them to find out. But by leaving a trail that led to a military facility, it was also a safe mechanism for them to use.

But 2000 years ago, which is when they were first leaving to earth, before the cargo went apeshit, Earthlings wouldn't be a threat then. And would more than likely still be worshiping them....? Humans didn't have the means to do much of anything.

We were not a threat then, but perhaps they decided based on what they'd seen that we were close enough to harvest (so to speak). I don't know why; it's not explained, quite intentionally. But they clearly wanted to do so, and the outbreak locked the facility down.

Dunno, this all seems pretty clear to me. I no longer feel like it's even all that ambiguous or unreasonable. I came out of the theater tonight feeling pretty comfortable that the clues are all solidly there, and they make sense to me.

 

[Horse Detective]

How does everyone feel about the C-section scene?

 

[commedieu]

I thought that was interesting. The Engineer seemed very curious and David was smiling. It was just for a moment, but I think The Engineer genuinely seemed... thoughtful? He then immediately killed everyone. Wonder if that's cause he had to, cause he was a dick, or what. But I liked that moment.

It had to be something like that, If this bullshit movie wants me to look under every rock for a fucking coherent story, I'm definitely reading into the engineers moment with david as something more than him just waking up and segal`n anyone in hands reach. Abomination, admiration, pride? Something was there. I'd like to think so.

How does everyone feel about the C-section scene?

Really didn't do much for me. Was a bit gross, but, that was it. Felt like I didn't get to climax, as she just got up, and walked away, leaving the alien inside. Then she stumbles into Weylands VIP room immediately afterward. It was just "Hmm."

Incredible. I adored the tension. I think a lot of the lustre wears off once you realize that the movie doesn't really care about that scene at all. After she saves herself, the movie brushes it off and really abruptly moves to the next plot point.

But taken out of context, the scene is marvelous, imo.

It does this with every good scene. And no one gives a shit that the plot point just happened either, its like everyone was on autopilot to finish the movie.

 

[BuddyJoeHooker]

No, I'm talking about them leaving the star map in past civilizations. It makes no sense.

Yes, this didn't make any sense. How did these guys know what their solar system looked like?

I don't know if it's related but the container that had the black goo in the beginning, it had some marking on it, could anybody tell what it was?

 

[Dresden]

How does everyone feel about the C-section scene?

The stomach stapling was pretty cool, I guess.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

How does everyone feel about the C-section scene?

I thought it was awesome. It's pretty terrifying and nerve-wracking, at least that's how I felt. I knew Shaw would survive that (saw the trailers), but it was still very creepy for me. Rapace acted the hell out of those scenes.

 

[Antiochus]

I thought that was interesting. The Engineer seemed very curious and David was smiling. It was just for a moment, but I think The Engineer genuinely seemed... thoughtful? He then immediately killed everyone. Wonder if that's cause he had to, cause he was a dick, or what. But I liked that moment.



Maybe it's cause the humans killed Jesus who was an Engineer.

Or so Scott said. Maybe he's trolling us.

Perhaps the Engineers had an ultimate directive similar to the Star Child of Mass Effect 3, and humanity has just demonstrated that.

Just a thought

 

[EliteArtist]

How does everyone feel about the C-section scene?

Wasn't too bad really. Thought it was going to be much worse during the lead up, but I'm happy with how it ended. Was expecting a space laser to cauterize the wound, but apparently those haven't been invented yet and staples reign supreme.

 

[Montresor]

How does everyone feel about the C-section scene?

Incredible. I adored the tension. But I think a lot of the lustre wears off once you realize that the movie doesn't really care about that scene at all. After she saves herself, the movie brushes it off and abruptly moves to the next plot point.

But taken out of context, the scene is marvelous, imo.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

It had to be something like that, If this bullshit movie wants me to look under every rock for a fucking coherent story, I'm definitely reading into the engineers moment with david as something more than him just waking up and segal`n anyone in hands reach. Abomination, admiration, pride? Something was there. I'd like to think so.

I think it was a combination of all of them. On the one hand, the seed they planted sprouted beautifully. Man become advanced, able to travel the stars and seek out their creators. But Man has also taken the role of the Engineers, creating their own "children". Maybe it was too far. Man cannot be the equals of the Engineers. Maybe he was proud that they'd become capable. But David was still an abomination. A machine that pretends at being a man.

 

[Gvaz]

Perhaps the Engineers had an ultimate directive similar to the Star Child of Mass Effect 3, and humanity has just demonstrated that.

Just a thought

 

[Dresden]

Perhaps the Engineers had an ultimate directive similar to the Star Child of Mass Effect 3, and humanity has just demonstrated that.

Just a thought

So they were afraid of organic lifeforms making biological weapons so they made biological weapons to kill the organic lifeforms to stop them from making biological weapons?

 

[joeyjoejoeshabadoo]

How does everyone feel about the C-section scene?

I saw it with my friend and his very pregnant girlfriend, I was a little uncomfortable.

Besides that, the CG of the stomach opening looked bad but scene itself was very effective. I got squeamish watching it but couldn't turn away. Her miraculous recovery was a bit much.

 

[Koodo]

DEVASTATED when Logan Marshall-Green was alienified. My eyes enjoyed every second of him. *.*

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

In terms of horror, I think what has made me less forgiving, in terms of character actions and deaths, is the movie the director made before this: Alien. In that movie two people died due to making poor choices. Out of the two, one of them died thanks to scientific curiosity. The rest got killed by the worst thing next to a Predator.

The difference between that guy in Alien, and the one with the snake here in Prometheus, are the circumstances involved. The dude in the beginning of Alien had no reason to think that shit was going to attack his face (he was still dumb), whereas the guy in Prometheus damn near had it spelled out for him. If Prometheus was filled with more situations like the former and less like the dude walking off taking light showers under leaky pipes, I wouldn't have nearly as many issues with the deaths here.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

It's difficult to ascribe motives to the Engineers. I mean, if they are truly alien beings, their concepts of morality, of right and wrong, would be so different from us, we wouldn't even understand it. For all we know, the Engineer was doing what it did because it was the RIGHT thing to do it, at least how he understands morality.

Look at David. He intellectually understands morality, but he doesn't emotionally or intuitively get it. To him, humans are like Engineers. He doesn't understand why Shaw keeps believing, just like why Shaw can't understand why the Engineer wanted to destroy Earth.

 

[maharg]

I think it was a combination of all of them. On the one hand, the seed they planted sprouted beautifully. Man become advanced, able to travel the stars and seek out their creators. But Man has also taken the role of the Engineers, creating their own "children". Maybe it was too far. Man cannot be the equals of the Engineers. Maybe he was proud that they'd become capable. But David was still an abomination. A machine that pretends at being a man.

I feel like this is a bad angle to take altogether. Man 2000 years ago was no more capable of creating artificial life than man 3000 years ago was (golem stories aside). Either it doesn't answer the real question or it answers it in a way that just begs more.

So they were afraid of organic lifeforms making biological weapons so they made biological weapons to turn the organic lifeforms into biological weapons to kill the organic lifeforms to stop them from making biological weapons?

Fixed.

 

[commedieu]

well hell, its 1:23am and I saw the movie around 3pm..

Guess the writer, as bad as it was, did his job to keep the conversation going. I'm NOT going to credit him for that, as if it was intended. Gaf kept this shit going ;-) Seacrest, ouuut..

 

[Koodo]

The difference between that guy in Alien, and the one with the snake here in Prometheus, are the circumstances involved. The dude in the beginning of Alien had no reason to think that shit was going to attack his face (he was still dumb), whereas the guy in Prometheus damn near had it spelled out for him. If Prometheus was filled with more situations like the former and less like the dude walking off taking light showers under leaky pipes, I wouldn't have nearly as many issues with the deaths here.

That was such a stupid moment, made all the worse by the characters' playful banter. The whole scene felt like a joke.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I feel like this is a bad angle to take altogether. Man 2000 years ago was no more capable of creating artificial life than man 3000 years ago was (golem stories aside). Either it doesn't answer the real question or it answers it in a way that just begs more.

Well, perhaps the Engineer is simply intrigued that man developed that far that fast (relatively). I mean, artificial life like what the Engineers were playing at. It's a crude imitation from his point of view, but maybe he's like David: curious.

 

[BuddyJoeHooker]

How does everyone feel about the C-section scene?

It reminded me very quickly of another space-centric surgery in Dead Space 2. But it worked so much better it terms of tension and everything she did after it I could feel a tear in my own stomach. She was pushed around hard after her cesarean.

 

[Horse Detective]

Why was the intro ship a saucer?

Btw- I loved the c-section scene. It might have been my favorite moment. It was incredibly tense, but I was hoping it would be more gory.

The whole audience lol'd when he said, "I didn't think you had it in you"

 

[EliteArtist]

So, when David is examining the drop of black goo and the closeup shows his finger in intimate detail revealing the Weyland logo on his finger, was any one else impressed with that minor detail?

 

[maharg]

well hell, its 1:23am and I saw the movie around 3pm..

Guess the writer, as bad as it was, did his job to keep the conversation going. I'm NOT going to credit him for that, as if it was intended. Gaf kept this shit going ;-) Seacrest, ouuut..

I think it's only Ridley's vision creeping through the bad script that makes any of this speculation worthwhile. I don't think even his vision is as deep or solid as we might hope, but it is at least *interesting*.

 

[Ashhong]

Mothership?

 

[Dresden]

So, when David is examining the drop of black goo and the closeup shows his finger in intimate detail revealing the Weyland logo on his finger, was any one else impressed with that minor detail?

Just another part of the impressive design work that went into the movie, I guess. I really adored a lot of the small mechanical details and this was no different.

Really, it just comes down to the script.

 

[duckroll]

Actually, here's another question. The landing scene on the planet showed a bunch of facilities. Not just one. This is confirmed at the end when David says there are other ships. How is it that an outbreak in one ship area somehow doomed the entire planetary facility? Why was the entire place simply abandoned instead of being purged by a clean-up crew later? It's been 2000 years. Wouldn't someone care that there was still a guy alive in one of the ships?

This is a major problem with lots of scifi stories, where details are only developed to be important on the surface, and only if it is relevant to the immediate story of the now. But upon analysis it seems unconvincing when you consider the long spans of time they wanted to convey.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

So, when David is examining the drop of black goo and the closeup shows his finger in intimate detail revealing the Weyland logo on his finger, was any one else impressed with that minor detail?

It was a neat touch.

Why was the intro ship a saucer?

Btw- I loved the c-section scene. It might have been my favorite moment. It was incredibly tense, but I was hoping it would be more gory.

The whole audience lol'd when he said, "I didn't think you had it in you"

Hahahaha, I smiled at that. No one laughed though.

So what's up with David viewing Shaw's dreams and seemingly only her dreams?