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[Solo]

"Oh my god, we're on a weird planet and bloodthirsdty aliens are hunting us!"

is a much more primal and terryfing premise than

"Oh my god, we're on a weird planet we visited in search of our origins and our makers have set bloodthirsty alien biological weapons on us to hunt us because we killed Jesus!"

 

[Ether_Snake]

The Jesus thing is not true, stop bringing it up to shit on the story when Scott himself said he didn't go with that.

 

[mattiewheels]

I wonder how much of this stuff was due to the first screenwriter and how much was changed in the rewrite. All this questionable mythology stuff has Lindelof's stink all over it, but I'd be interested in how developed it was in the first drafts.

Also, no one saw my question about the xenomorph at the end...they don't burst from hosts fully formed like that, do they? Don't they come out initially as cute little shrimps?

 

[JB1981]

"Oh my god, we're on a weird planet and bloodthirsdty aliens are hunting us!"

is a much more primal and terryfing premise than

"Oh my god, we're on a weird planet we visited in search of our origins and our makers have set bloodthirsty alien biological weapons on us to hunt us because we killed Jesus!"

So you wanted it to be Alien.

 

[Solo]

I wanted the answers to be interesting and thought provoking, if they just had to give answers.

The Jesus thing is not true, stop bringing it up to shit on the story when Scott himself said he didn't go with that.

Doesn't matter what Scott said. The movie belongs to the audience now and that has become one popular interpretation.

 

[Karma Kramer]

"Oh my god, we're on a weird planet and bloodthirsdty aliens are hunting us!"

is a much more primal and terryfing premise than

"Oh my god, we're on a weird planet we visited in search of our origins and our makers have set bloodthirsty alien biological weapons on us to hunt us because we killed Jesus!"

Can someone explain this Jesus stuff? I dont remember it being mentioned as the motivation for the engineers to kill us.

 

[Keylime]

You've unknowingly answered your own question. Those films work brilliant because you aren't spoonfed the answers. The xenomorphs are simply insatiable killing machine. They are like Michael Myers in Halloween (1978). No backstory needed, they are simply pure, unadulterated rage. Prometheus is akin to pulling the curtain back on the Wizard of Oz. And like Halloween (2007), when you attempt to humanize/explain that which needed no explanation, you've lost it.

I just see the goals of Prometheus and the goals of Alien/Aliens as being completely separate. Alien/Aliens are just greatly crafted pieces of story telling. Prometheus is poking at themes and apparently intentionally leaving things open for another movie. It's not a "well crafted" anything as far as I can tell besides being a visual master-class in a lot of scenarios...but it's not trying to be a book-ended complete story.

...it suddenly feels like I'm trying to argue that movie doesn't need a good story to be good, which is making me feel uncomfortable. I think what I'm trying to say is that I'm more than OK having things be open ended and still being good.

 

[JB1981]

I wonder how much of this stuff was due to the first screenwriter and how much was changed in the rewrite. All this questionable mythology stuff has Lindelof's stink all over it, but I'd be interested in how developed it was in the first drafts.

Also, no one saw my question about the xenomorph at the end...they don't burst from hosts fully formed like that, do they? Don't they come out initially as cute little shrimps?

The lifecycle is weird in this. The shrimp comes out of Shaw, which mutates into a squid facehugger, which then mutates into a Deacon (xenmorph). It's weird lol

 

[Karma Kramer]

The Jesus thing is not true, stop bringing it up to shit on the story when Scott himself said he didn't go with that.

Ah so basically people like Solo who are basically trolling, not responding to prior arguments against their beefs with the film are making up cheesy explanations to "back up" their reasoning in arguing people are stupid for talking about this movie that asks no questions to the audience.... lol

 

[DECK'ARD]

The Jesus thing is not true, stop bringing it up to shit on the story when Scott himself said he didn't go with that.

They went with it, it's everywhere in the film.

Not stated outright, but too much stated to be able to rule it out.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I wanted the answers to be interesting and thought provoking, if they just had to give answers.



Doesn't matter what Scott said. The movie belongs to the audience now and that has become one popular interpretation.

Errr, it has only become popular because Scott said it was an idea that he threw away. It was never indicated or brought up by him in any other context. No one ever asked him about that. HE said it, during an interview, talking about ideas they had.

 

[140.85]

I wanted a film that knew what it wanted to be, knew what story it wanted to tell, and had enough confidence in that story to not shroud it in ambiguity because it's patently absurd.

Whether it turned out like Alien or not is incidental, I just wanted a good film.

Well I guess we just had the opposite reaction to it. I think it's an excellent film and the ideas Scott set out to flesh out are done so very well and I thought quite confidently. It's a very convincing world.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Can someone explain this Jesus stuff? I dont remember it being mentioned as the motivation for the engineers to kill us.

It's in a long interview with Ridley, there's links to it in the thread a few pages back.

 

[cyberheater]

I wanted a film that knew what it wanted to be, knew what story it wanted to tell, and had enough confidence in that story to not shroud it in ambiguity because it's patently absurd.

Whether it turned out like Alien or not is incidental, I just wanted a good film.

Well you're in luck. I've seen it twice now. It's a great film.

 

[Ether_Snake]

They went with it, it's everywhere in the film.

Not stated outright, but too much stated to be able to rule it out.

No, Scott went with a less on-the-nose idea, that ties in more to old mythologies like Sumerian/Babylon. THAT is clearly hinted at too, the engineers speak fucking sumerian and their writing is sumerian. Their myths parallel those of the Old Testament, except they are older, and hence the original source of most Bible myths.

 

[andycapps]

Well I guess we just had the opposite reaction to it. I think it's an excellent film and the ideas Scott set out to flesh out are done so very well and I thought quite confidently. It's a very convincing world.

I agree, everyone I know that's seen it feels the same way. There's a vocal minority on GAF that feels this way as well as some critics.

 

[JB1981]

What does he say in the viral trailer?

Shaw probably just made the link between the aliens in question, and creation of humanity. That might be something Weyland didn't know of until the cave paintings were found. But you might be right, I just can't imagine that the TED talk wasn't after having established that there are aliens out there, and that Weyland might be able to go wherever they are or get info from them.

Also, I was thinking about something:

Since engineers = fallen angels, and Scott said paradise would be disturbing since fallen angels = doing all the cool, etc., basically paradise would be the opposite of what the engineers are like, it might offer a reason why the engineer rips off David's head: when he touches David, he sees that he has no emotions. The fact that David has no emotions was a strong point before the movie was even out. Well, who else would NOT have emotions? Angels. Angels just follow orders. Maybe the engineer, putting his hand on David, saw David in the same way they saw angels, as enemies, and ripped off his head?

He saw them all as enemies, but seemed particularly offended after putting his hand on David's head. I think the Engineer in the beginning (in the robe) is "different" from the ones we find on the ship. They are clearly Warrior Engineers flying machines of War. The Engineer in the beginning is robed, kind of like a God or priest or something. Maybe there is some kind of war going on between them back home. No clue.

 

[SuperEpicMan]

I think a sequel would be very interesting, even if you aren't a fan of Prometheus. It will be whether or not they can pull of a film entirely about Shaw and DaveHead visiting the engineer home world.

 

[mattiewheels]

The lifecycle is weird in this. The shrimp comes out of Shaw, which mutates into a squid facehugger, which then mutates into a Deacon (xenmorph). It's weird lol

I'm speaking solely from seeing the chestburst in Alien, it goes from shrimp to skin-shedding to full xenomorph in a short time, but not full right out of the chest. Is there anything else canonical that does it differently? Then again, I'm asking this about a movie that constantly does nonsenseical things for convenience's sake so eh...

 

[Karma Kramer]

He saw them all as enemies, but seemed particularly offended after putting his hand on David's head. I think the Engineer in the beginning (in the robe) is "different" from the ones we find on the ship. They are clearly Warrior Engineers flying machines of War. The Engineer in the beginning is robed, kind of like a God or priest or something. Maybe there is some kind of war going on between them back home. No clue.

No man, its cause of Jesus...

I find it hilarious that people are going on about how cool Alien is for not getting in depth with stuff... but practically no one knows why the Engineer got pissed at David nor do they know the context of why the Engineers were maybe fighting each other, etc etc... theres many unanswered questions in this film, not everything it spelled out... and I like that about it.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

The Jesus thing is not true, stop bringing it up to shit on the story when Scott himself said he didn't go with that.

He said it was too "on-the-nose", which sounds like he thought it was a bad idea to lay it out explicitly. (Which it is.) But he certainly doesn't go to great lengths to preclude it from the movie entirely. You've written like ten thousand words in this thread about things that may or may not be present in the movie. You can't say this one thing which is actually lightly alluded to in the movie and the director himself considered saying directly is not a valid read just because you don't like it.

 

[Messypandas]

I think a sequel would be very interesting, even if you aren't a fan of Prometheus. It will be whether or not they can pull of a film entirely about Shaw and DaveHead visiting the engineer home world.

it's a buddy comedy!

 

[140.85]

They went with it, it's everywhere in the film.

Not stated outright, but too much stated to be able to rule it out.

I think they just used it as a possible idea to drive the writing. It never feels like they are hinting directly at that specific idea but to the general idea that the Engineers view themselves as rightful judges of earth and for some reason deemed us worthy of extinction. Which raises a lot of interesting ideas IMO.

 

[daviyoung]

I think a sequel would be very interesting, even if you aren't a fan of Prometheus. It will be whether or not they can pull of a film entirely about Shaw and DaveHead visiting the engineer home world.

Their only meeting with an engineer didn't end too well, what can she possibly achieve?

Prometheus 2 is going to have a hulking super-muscular Shaw with a DaveHead on a military tank they knocked up while travelling. She's stopped by the moonbase M3X1C0 to pick up some awesome firepower and now she's bringing the fight to the engineers. She smokes cigars now too, and has several tattoos to show how badass she's become.

Get Cameron to direct.

 

[DECK'ARD]

No, Scott went with a less on-the-nose idea, that ties in more to old mythologies like Sumerian/Babylon. THAT is clearly hinted at too, the angineers speak fucking sumerian and their writing is sumerian.

Roughly 2000 years ago.

The only concrete date and line for what the entire film is based on. Not to mention the film is dripping in Christian symbolism.

Before adding in any extra footage, the first thing a Director's Cut should do is cut that line. But the entire premise of the film is ill-conceived in the first place, and especially unnecessary when shoehorned into the Alien universe.

 

[Ether_Snake]

He said it was too "on-the-nose", which sounds like he thought it was a bad idea to lay it out explicitly. (Which it is.) But he certainly doesn't go to great lengths to preclude it from the movie entirely. You've written like ten thousand words in this thread about things that may or may not be present in the movie. You can't say this one thing which is actually lightly alluded to in the movie and the director himself considered saying directly is not a valid read just because you don't like it.

It's too on-the-nose as a justification for the engineers to suddenly want to kill off mankind, that's what is too on-the-nose.

 

[TRios Zen]

Errr, it has only become popular because Scott said it was an idea that he threw away. It was never indicated or brought up by him in any other context. No one ever asked him about that. HE said it, during an interview, talking about ideas they had.

I respectfully disagree: there are numerous references WITHIN the movie, that could suggest religious overtones: the story starts on Christmas, the "accident" that occurred on LV-223 is estimated to have happened around the death of Christ, the general creation aspects that are hinted at - you can't ask provocative questions like that without providing in-movie answers, then say "Oh what he thinks that means is wrong".

 

[Erigu]

The Jesus thing is not true

I don't know, man... Lindelof said that the Engineers changed their minds because of something that happened on Earth 2000 years ago, and, in another interview, that you could guess why the Engineers changed their minds based on what is shown/said during the movie and quite probably get it right. What could he be talking about, there?

 

[andycapps]

I with the 1982 The Thing could have come out today so I could have seen the GAF thread on it.

"WTF WHEREZ ALL THE WOMENZ"

"THE MOVIE JUST ENDED? IS THE THING DEAD OR NOT? WHAT SHIT WRITING!"

"OH COME ON! WHY DID HE GO OUT IN THE BLIZZARD BY HIMSELF, THAT MAKES NO SENSE!'

"WHY DID THEY USE THE SAME KNIFE TO TEST THEMSELVES TO SEE IF THEY WERE THE THING IF IT'S HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS?"

"WHY WAS THERE LIGHT ON THE FIRST DAY OF WINTER IN ANTARCTICA?"

"WHY WAS THE UFO BURIED 100K YEARS AGO BUT THE THING THAT CRAWLED OUT OF THE SHIP WAS ONLY UNDER A FEW FEET OF ICE?? NO SENSE MAN"

 

[Messypandas]

I can already see the opening shot of the next one.

Shaw in stasis aboard the back-up ship approaching the engineer homeworld. The ship's ephemeral interstellar trail give's the look of a sperm ebbing towards a big egg (the engineer planet). When she arrives she awakens and then flowers into engineer proto baby. The film has sub-text for fertillity because Shaw can't have babies. DEEP

 

[Ether_Snake]

Didn't see the Lindelof interviews.

 

[The Elite]

Roughly 2000 years ago.

The only concrete date and line for what the entire film is based on. Not to mention the film is dripping in Christian symbolism.

Before adding in any extra footage, the first thing a Director's Cut should do is cut that line. But the entire premise of the film is ill-conceived in the first place, and especially unnecessary when shoehorned into the Alien universe.

Just because the film has Christian smybolism doesn't mean that Scott is still going with the Space Jesus stuff. If he didn't bring it up, I seriously doubt anyone would have made that connection.

A lot of things could have happened roughly 2000 years ago that caused the Engineers to panic. There wasn't any point in the film that they suggested it was connected to the crucifixion. Never even crossed my mind.

 

[Chinner]

what if there was a hatch....IN SPACE.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Just because the film has Christian smybolism doesn't mean that Scott is still going with the Space Jesus stuff. If he didn't bring it up, I seriously doubt anyone would have made that connection.

A lot of things could have happened roughly 2000 years ago that caused the Engineers to panic. There wasn't any point in the film that they suggested it was connected to the crucifixion. Never even crossed my mind.

The movie also has Sumerian/Babylonian and Incan symbolism.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Just because the film has Christian smybolism doesn't mean that Scott is still going with the Space Jesus stuff. If he didn't bring it up, I seriously doubt anyone would have made that connection.

A lot of things could have happened roughly 2000 years ago that caused the Engineers to panic. There wasn't any point in the film that they suggested it was connected to the crucifixion. Never even crossed my mind.

Same here... it wasn't clear so its just a guess. Summarizing the plot with the Space Jesus stuff is just unnecessary.

 

[The Elite]

The movie also has Sumerian/Babylonian and Incan symbolism.

Exactly, the film suggests that the Engineers had an influence on past civilizations. At no point does it explicitly suggest that Jesus was a Space Jockey. People need to abandon that, just like Scott did.

 

[140.85]

Roughly 2000 years ago.

The only concrete date and line for what the entire film is based on. Not to mention the film is dripping in Christian symbolism.

Meh. 2000 years just seems like a oft-used convenient cultural shorthand for "a long freaking time ago".

 

[andycapps]

Exactly, the film suggests that the Engineers had an influence on past civilizations. At no point does it explicitly suggest that Jesus was a Space Jockey. People need to abandon that, just like Scott did.

I thought it was pretty clear what they were getting at when they dated the engineer to 2000 years ago. I mean, sure, other things happened around that time, but that's a pretty arbitrary time period to go for. Also, you see the engineer on the wall with his hands outstretched and his insides spilling out, then you further see the xeno on the opposite wall with arms outstretched. I figured that much out when I was in the movie, I didn't need Scott's explanation of the scene.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Just because the film has Christian smybolism doesn't mean that Scott is still going with the Space Jesus stuff. If he didn't bring it up, I seriously doubt anyone would have made that connection.

A lot of things could have happened roughly 2000 years ago that caused the Engineers to panic. There wasn't any point in the film that they suggested it was connected to the crucifixion. Never even crossed my mind.

One of my mates actually said it as a joke as we left the cinema because of the 2000 years ago line. I just replied with no, it must have just been more religious wankery for the sake of it like everything else. I still said that long ago in the thread actually.

Little did I think then it was an actual major plot point that had been considered and is still there to the point no other explanation anyone has come up with stands up.

It's the story of the failed revenge for the crucifixion of Space Jesus, and there is nothing to suggest otherwise because the film had nothing better to say.

 

[Keylime]

I don't think the whole Space Jesus thing can be discounted...Lindelof in an interview was less than obvious when he was saying stuff like "the carbon dating had the engineer dead for 2000 years...what happened 2000 years ago that may have set off a reaction with the engineers?"

Perhaps it's nothing more than the engineers being upset that a selfless man who was teaching peace and kindness was killed...perhaps Jesus was a space jesus...but Lindelof pretty much outright says that the killing of Jesus has something to do with it.... (or perhaps the worship of a man who claimed to be the son of God was a reason to piss them off if they knew no God existed).

It's not at all implied in the movie beyond the crucifixion symbolism with the Xenomorph...but Lindelof said it. I think pretending like it has nothing to do with the movie is ignoring all the data we have.

 

[UnluckyKate]

what if there was a hatch....IN SPACE.

That would be more interesting for sure than what Prometheus delivered

 

[Ether_Snake]

I thought it was pretty clear what they were getting at when they dated the engineer to 2000 years ago. I mean, sure, other things happened around that time, but that's a pretty arbitrary time period to go for. Also, you see the engineer on the wall with his hands outstretched and his insides spilling out, then you further see the xeno on the opposite wall with arms outstretched. I figured that much out when I was in the movie, I didn't need Scott's explanation of the scene.

Do you have a pic of that? I don't recall this.

The Xenomorph on the other is: sacrificial altar (with the green stone), with a mural showing what comes from the sacrifice or in what honor the sacrifice is done: face-hugged humanoids in the corners, a rising xenomorph, a rising super-xenomorph behind it (or Queen).

It fits with Scott's description of the incan myth of self-sacrifice to bring about a better future: an engineer would have sacrificed himself on the altar to provide the building material to create Xenomorphs.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Meh. 2000 years just seems like a oft-used convenient cultural shorthand for "a long freaking time ago".

Carbon dating son.

 

[duckroll]

Errr, it has only become popular because Scott said it was an idea that he threw away. It was never indicated or brought up by him in any other context. No one ever asked him about that. HE said it, during an interview, talking about ideas they had.

Not true. He said it in REPLY to the interviewer ASKING about it exactly. The interviewer asked him if there is any truth to speculation that Jesus was the reason why they decided to wipe humanity out, and he AGREED that it was something they intentionally considered, but didn't want to SPELL IT OUT in the movie. He then goes on to talk about what a great and deep idea it is.

 

[radios shipping overview]

But there is nothing semi-realistic or deep about Prometheus. It's just LOST in space.

You're telling me that Lindelof helped place ham-handed, unambiguous religious iconography at the center of an exciting and interesting mythology? Shock!

 

[Erigu]

Exactly, the film suggests that the Engineers had an influence on past civilizations. At no point does it explicitly suggest that Jesus was a Space Jockey.

Yes, they made sure all religions were equally represented.
You know, like in...

Was Christian Shephard's church somewhat biased toward one particular religion? I know I can't tell.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Not true. He said it in REPLY to the interviewer ASKING about it exactly. The interviewer asked him if there is any truth to speculation that Jesus was the reason why they decided to wipe humanity out, and he AGREED that it was something they intentionally considered, but didn't want to SPELL IT OUT in the movie. He then goes on to talk about what a great and deep idea it is.

No he says it's too on the nose, but elaborates on why he had that idea.

I'm not gonna say there is no way the idea will come back in the movie, but people talk about it as if Scott confirmed it.

edit: One thing he DOES say is that the engineers are fallen-angels. What does that mean for the "they refused Jesus so they want to kill us" thing? Sounds more to me like he decided to make the engineers much more evil than originally planned.

 

[andycapps]

Do you have a pic of that? I don't recall this.

The Xenomorph on the other is: sacrificial altar (with the green stone), with a mural showing what comes from the sacrifice or in what honor the sacrifice is done: face-hugged humanoids in the corners, a rising xenomorph, a rising super-xenomorph behind it (or Queen).

It fits with Scott's description of the incan myth of self-sacrifice to bring about a better future: an engineer would have sacrificed himself on the altar to provide the building material to create Xenomorphs.

I could have imagined the engineer with his arms outstretched. Whoever got the art book in this thread should see if there's a picture of it to see if can upload that part.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Y'all are gonna just have to wait for Prometheus 2 if you want to know... but personally the whole Jesus angle never popped in my head and I hadnt heard it mentioned by any friends I saw it with or anyone on other forums that are talking about the film. The Engineers motivation to kill Earth is purposefully vague.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I could have imagined the engineer with his arms outstretched. Whoever got the art book in this thread should see if there's a picture of it to see if can upload that part.

In the artbook you see an engineer in a position of superiority VS another alien, there is no Jesus connotation. The only Jesus-like pose is the Xenomorph flying above the altar, which shows the evolutionary process that is to follow after the sacrifice on the altar.