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[chubigans]

Interesting. I'd like to see somebody step up and actually try that.

I would too. :lol :lol

 

[Travado]

:lol at people complaining about a feature that nobody uses.

If is another company, like Nintendo for example removing most important things, like the GBA slot of the DS, phone jack on GBA, component output on GameCube nobody complains and approve this shit, purchasing 10 more DS and 5 more Wii to support Nintendo, but is Sony, the haters come from the hills just to cry about nothing relevant. :lol

Good move Sony!

 

[iapetus]

You guys act like there's some kind of entitlement to OtherOS.

I think people believe the entitlement comes from paying for a product that includes it.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Interesting. I'd like to see somebody step up and actually try that.

From Slashdot:

"It doesn't run linux anymore."

Want to bet? I PAID FOR FUCKING OTHEROS - You take it from me and I WILL SUE YOUR ASS FOR THEFT OF SERVICES.

By the way, for those of you wanting to join me in the class-action I'm gong to form - just look up Finkelstein and Thompson if you're in the state of CA - they helped me out with Spore and they'll most certainly come in handy for this nonsense NOW.

100 Bush Street
San Francisco, CA 94104-3954
(415) 398-8700

Ask for Mr. Punzalan.

 

[ZeroRay]

It always sucks to remove features from products. Sony should of added something major to this update like cross-game chat to lower the backlash they are getting now.

Not that they don't deserve it.

 

[gregor7777]

:lol at people complaining about a feature that nobody uses.

If is another company, like Nintendo for example removing most important things, like the GBA slot of the DS, phone jack on GBA, component output on GameCube nobody complains and approve this shit, purchasing 10 more DS and 5 more Wii to support Nintendo, but is Sony, the haters come from the hills just to cry about nothing relevant. :lol

Good move Sony!

Fuck man, you should have seen the size of the goons Nintendo sent to my house to remove the GBA slot from my DS.

Who's there?
Goons. Hired goons.

 

[hauton]

Please, there's probably something in the n amounts of agreements that you consent to in order to get OtherOS up that it's provided as-is and as such, can be taken away from you anytime.

If Sony didn't have any recourse in seeing OtherOS as an attack vector on their legitimate business of software sales, they wouldn't have released OtherOS.

EDIT: Hell they're not even taking it away from you. If x software/service requires 3.21 it's your fucking perogative if you want to update or not. Good luck having that "theft of services" crap stand in court.

 

[Dynoro]

:lol at people complaining about a feature that nobody uses.

If is another company, like Nintendo for example removing most important things, like the GBA slot of the DS, phone jack on GBA, component output on GameCube nobody complains and approve this shit, purchasing 10 more DS and 5 more Wii to support Nintendo, but is Sony, the haters come from the hills just to cry about nothing relevant. :lol

Good move Sony!

I think you may have missed the issue; people have bought something and are losing a feature that the console had and that they paid for. All those Nintendo examples had features dropped on a new revision - the GBA slot didn't stop working on an old DS.

 

[RedNumberFive]

:lol at people complaining about a feature that nobody uses.

If is another company, like Nintendo for example removing most important things, like the GBA slot of the DS, phone jack on GBA, component output on GameCube nobody complains and approve this shit, purchasing 10 more DS and 5 more Wii to support Nintendo, but is Sony, the haters come from the hills just to cry about nothing relevant. :lol

Good move Sony!

You really don't get this at all do you? Reading comprehension FTW.

 

[chubigans]

From Slashdot:

Bwahaha :lol

Stealing OtherOS while you sleep: maybe, just maybe it's some sort of lawsuit. Maybe.

Disabling OtherOS with an "optional" firmware update: no freaking chance in hell.

But hey, if people have nothing better to do than waste a lot time and money on frivolous lawsuits, go for it.

 

[impirius]

:lol at people complaining about a feature that nobody uses.

If is another company, like Nintendo for example removing most important things, like the GBA slot of the DS, phone jack on GBA, component output on GameCube nobody complains and approve this shit, purchasing 10 more DS and 5 more Wii to support Nintendo, but is Sony, the haters come from the hills just to cry about nothing relevant. :lol

Good move Sony!

Do you seriously see no difference in removing physical components in later hardware versions versus removing features for people who are already using them?

This thread is just depressing.

 

[Lord Error]

Heh. Kutaragi doesn't seem so bad now, does he? Welcome to the bean counter age of SCE that pretty much started as soon as he was gone.

I feel bad for guys like Missile. It would be nice if they at least would give you some discount for buying a 2nd PS3 so that you can use the existing one unupdated.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Please, there's probably something in the n amounts of agreements that you consent to in order to get OtherOS up that it's provided as-is and as such, can be taken away from you anytime.

You're assuming said agreements can be legally enforceable and can stand up in court.

 

[JADS]

:lol at people complaining about a feature that nobody uses.

If is another company, like Nintendo for example removing most important things, like the GBA slot of the DS, phone jack on GBA, component output on GameCube nobody complains and approve this shit, purchasing 10 more DS and 5 more Wii to support Nintendo, but is Sony, the haters come from the hills just to cry about nothing relevant. :lol

Good move Sony!

Yeah, because Nintendo taking away features by an hardware revision is the same as Sony disabling features by software patching them up

 

[hauton]

You're assuming said agreements can be legally enforceable and can stand up in court.

Most EULAs have stood up in several legal systems throughout the world. Welcome to the 21st Century.

 

[Dynoro]

Bwahaha :lol

Stealing OtherOS while you sleep: maybe, just maybe it's some sort of lawsuit. Maybe.

Disabling OtherOS with an "optional" firmware update: no freaking chance in hell.

But hey, if people have nothing better to do than waste a lot time and money on frivolous lawsuits, go for it.

It is not optional if you want to play online as you need the firmware update. They have a stronger case than most class action lawsuits have (which isn't saying much; granted)

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Bwahaha :lol

Stealing OtherOS while you sleep: maybe, just maybe it's some sort of lawsuit. Maybe.

Disabling OtherOS with an "optional" firmware update: no freaking chance in hell.

But hey, if people have nothing better to do than waste a lot time and money on frivolous lawsuits, go for it.

With good enough lawyers, you never know. From another /. post:

I bought my PS3 for two things, cell development and games. So to play games I need the latest firmware but the latest firmware makes it impossible for me to do cell development. This was an advertised feature when I bought it(a few months after launch) so I don't see how Sony can do this without facing a class action suite.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

:lol at people complaining about a feature that nobody uses.

If is another company, like Nintendo for example removing most important things, like the GBA slot of the DS, phone jack on GBA, component output on GameCube nobody complains and approve this shit, purchasing 10 more DS and 5 more Wii to support Nintendo, but is Sony, the haters come from the hills just to cry about nothing relevant. :lol

Good move Sony!

"Auuugh, those awful Nintendo people continuing to exist I have to make a post on the internet to show them their hypocrisy; TO ARMS, FINGERS"

 

[WillyFive]

:lol at people complaining about a feature that nobody uses.

If is another company, like Nintendo for example removing most important things, like the GBA slot of the DS, phone jack on GBA, component output on GameCube nobody complains and approve this shit, purchasing 10 more DS and 5 more Wii to support Nintendo, but is Sony, the haters come from the hills just to cry about nothing relevant. :lol

Good move Sony!

There's a difference.

Removing the GBA Slot from the DSi didn't stop your GBA slot from your old DS to stop working.

 

[JudgeN]

Visualante did, earlier in the thread; quoting the reply he recieved:



(further content spoke specifically about universities)

So, if you like: For missile, this update doesn't mean he can no longer use linux; it means he can no longer play new PS3 games.

Put like *that*, would people still defend it?

Yes they still defend it, we are talking about a feature 97% of the userbase doesn't use. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if most of that percentage know about the feature from the beginning.

Removing features sucks and I personally believe this isn't the correct way to handle the situation especially considering there isn't a "hack" for the PS3 that enable homebrew or piracy. And there isn't going to be unless someone is able to uncover the root key within the isolated SPU. But at the end of the day this isn't going to effect but a handful of people.

But even more fucked up is here we are almost in April of 2010 and we still haven't had a "big" feature improving firmware for the PS3, wasn't cross platform chat suppose to be out during Q1 of 2010?

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Most EULAs have stood up in several legal systems throughout the world. Welcome to the 21st Century.

Dragona implied otherwise earlier in the thread due to lawyer-GAF, but we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

 

[Somnid]

You guys aren't really seeing how this works. The legal argument would be along the lines that they aren't removing OtherOS, they are removing the ability to use all PSN services should you choose to keep it. You don't pay for that and they don't have to provide it. You are right to think there might be problems directly removing it without consent though.

 

[hauton]

Yeah I really want to see how a class-action suit over this would get shot down to bits.

Push comes to shove, it becomes a question of whether the Playstation is really a computer, and thus, Sony is obligated to provide a computer operating system.

Which the tax case has already told us that's not the case.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

I use the OtherOS feature on a daily basis. I have a fully configured fast and
efficient desktop running. Secondly, I use the OtherOS feature to program the
Cell processor, which is just an awesome processor to begin with.

Linux on the PS3 serves young and enthusiastic people (gamers, geeks, students,
...) in getting their hands on an embedded parallel system. Programming the Cell
processor servers also as a primer in on-chip parallel programming.

I have some projects running on PS3 as well. One project is an optimized Linux
specifically tailored to the PS3 to be used by gamers such that the PS3 can be
used as a full-fledged desktop. Another project is a 3d finite-element fluid
dynamics solver for educational purposes, which will be be parallelized over all
SPEs. The fluid dynamics stuff should end up in a book for undergraduate students
of mathematics, computer science, and engineering, where the mathematics is
threated rightfully ??? and where one also gets a working source code to see
everything in motion. I wanted to put a special emphasis on the Cell processor
since its architecture really has some timeless things to offer within the realm
of on-chip parallel programming. But this won't likely to happen now, since
'no one' would be able to run / modify the code on the PS3 further down the
road

I've spent about 3 year using PS3Linux (since launch), it's just a wonderful
system. I can tell you, I've leaned a lot and I'm not going to stop here. I'm
not going to update the system.

And one thing if for sure, geohot is not responsible for removing the OtherOS
feature.

Suffice is to say, we, the PS3 dev community, felt cut short on Sony's rampage
in cutting down everything which isn't a multi-million dollar business. There
are so much things Sony has sunken money into with no real outcome. But they
need to wipe out a whole community of enthusiastic people all of a sudden who
rely on a feature which doesn't cost a fraction of the money they've lost along
the way.

I'm really disappointed....


Edit:


I care. Now please shut the fuck up. Thx.

man you are wasting your time.
nobody needs/wants linux on ps3 and for what do students need another fem tool? there are plenty to choose from as a student today, not one single student is going to fuck around on his ps3 if he can
a) get semester licences or
b) go to the pc-rooms filled with shitloads of FEM software


plus, if you are so hardcore about it, buy a second ps3 for gaming. still cheaper than an ibm cell blade, right?

you are not the target audience and have no right whatsoever starting to bitch around, you got a cell for dirty cheap ... wanna game? buy a ps3 slim.

 

[Triple U]

Anybody with a fat mind scanning there EULA to see if this is in there?

 

[Forsete]

Panic move by Sony. Tsk tsk.

Don't update?

No more PSN access?

 

[iapetus]

Push comes to shove, it becomes a question of whether the Playstation is really a computer, and thus, Sony is obligated to provide a computer operating system.

No it doesn't. And if you believe that it does, you have completely misunderstood the issue.

 

[chubigans]

It is not optional if you want to play online as you need the firmware update. They have a stronger case than most class action lawsuits have (which isn't saying much; granted)

In that case, I shall sue Microsoft for shutting down all Xbox Live support for original Xbox titles in a few days, since I bought titles off the Xbox Originals marketplace and a Xbox Live Gold account to play them. Now I can't.

You could argue that shutting down the Xbox Live Originals service only affects a few people, hardly anyone plays those online, probably very few bought a gold account to play them that number in the tens, if that, and that they should upgrade to a real 360 game to enjoy their Gold accounts. But you could also argue that shutting down this service will benefit others in the long run, as well as MS not having to support the old service anymore with server support/making sure it's compatible with future firmwares, etc.

To be sure, the Other OS removal is a bit more on the extreme side, but removal of already bought-and-paid-for items/services happens a lot more than we might realize.

 

[Dynoro]

You guys aren't really seeing how this works. The legal argument would be along the lines that they aren't removing OtherOS, they are removing the ability to use all PSN services should you choose to keep it. You don't pay for that and they don't have to provide it. You are right to think there might be problems directly removing it without consent though.

And if said services are a selling point and feature of the console (like OtherOS) then they are obliged to provide them. If a PS3 game or Blu-Ray comes out requiring this firmware or later then it becomes an issue.

 

[racerx]

There's a difference.

Removing the GBA Slot from the DSi didn't stop your GBA slot from your old DS to stop working.

Well, no one is forcing you to update. If you like the linux so much, don't update - this is what I may end up doing. Access to PSN is a privilege, not a right. Whether it's MS banning people or SONY, the network owner is in the right to ban anyone for what ever reason.

 

[Lord Error]

NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON ON THIS PLANET HAS PLAYED A PIRATED PS3 GAME!

Well duh, if that's the reason they're removing this feature, they are doing it because they want to keep it that way.

 

[captmcblack]

I am still in awe of people actually saying it's cool to lose features involuntarily. :lol

This isn't even a truly inconsequential loss, like say "no more SACD playback". This is like them taking out the DVD player and then having people say "well, DVD's are played out anyway and you have 10 other DVD players already"

 

[obonicus]

Uh, yes you can. Both are advertised on the back of the box I fucking bought.

Linux is advertised on the back of the box? I have a 60Gb fat, couldn't find it there.

 

[RedNumberFive]

man you are wasting your time.
nobody needs/wants linux on ps3 and for what do students need another fem tool? there are plenty to choose from as a student today, not one single student is going to fuck around on his ps3 if he can
a) get semester licences or
b) go to the pc-rooms filled with shitloads of FEM software


plus, if you are so hardcore about it, buy a second ps3 for gaming. still cheaper than an ibm cell blade, right?

you are not the target audience and have no right whatsoever starting to bitch around, you got a cell for dirty cheap ... wanna game? buy a ps3 slim.

Wow dude, you're really on the offensive today, aren't you? It's crazy how you don't realize that someone might be upset that a feature that they specifically bought the PS3 for is getting cut after the fact. The man showed that he has specific reasons for using the PS3 as a Linux box, and you're just being outright rude to him. Buying a second PS3 because the firmware update is dicking him over? Give me a break.

 

[JudgeN]

In that case, I shall sue Microsoft for shutting down all Xbox Live support for original Xbox titles in a few days, since I bought titles off the Xbox Originals marketplace and a Xbox Live Gold account to play them. Now I can't.

You could argue that shutting down the Xbox Live Originals service only affects a few people, hardly anyone plays those online, probably very few bought a gold account to play them that number in the tens, if that, and that they should upgrade to a real 360 game to enjoy their Gold accounts. But you could also argue that shutting down this service will benefit others in the long run, as well as MS not having to support the old service anymore with server support/making sure it's compatible with future firmwares, etc.

To be sure, the Other OS removal is a bit more on the extreme side, but removal of already bought-and-paid-for items/services happens a lot more than we might realize.

Its funny Microsoft didn't catch GAF outrage for doing it, every clapped because it was holding back Xbox live on 360.

 

[Dynoro]

In that case, I shall sue Microsoft for shutting down all Xbox Live support for original Xbox titles in a few days, since I bought titles off the Xbox Originals marketplace and a Xbox Live Gold account to play them. Now I can't.

I would fully support you in this; MS took away a feature that you paid for and you have every right to demand a response from MS.

 

[hauton]

No it doesn't. And if you believe that it does, you have completely misunderstood the issue.

Crux of argument: "Sony advertised that it's a computer, that I can run Linux!"
It's an entertainment system. It plays its games, it plays its Blu-Rays.
You seem to think that the argument that "OtherOS is an essential component of PS3 that Sony must deliver upon" will stand up in court. Good luck with that.

 

[BobsRevenge]

Please, there's probably something in the n amounts of agreements that you consent to in order to get OtherOS up that it's provided as-is and as such, can be taken away from you anytime.

If Sony didn't have any recourse in seeing OtherOS as an attack vector on their legitimate business of software sales, they wouldn't have released OtherOS.

EDIT: Hell they're not even taking it away from you. If x software/service requires 3.21 it's your fucking perogative if you want to update or not. Good luck having that "theft of services" crap stand in court.

What's with the hostility bro? You want Sony to take away features that people have payed for?

Even if they have something in their legal stuff that you agree to it's bullshit for the people who bought their console in part because they wanted to use the Other OS feature. It's not cool either way, so why try to stick up for the bully?

 

[EmCeeGramr]

GAFfer tendencies to to defend corporations screwing over consumers and developers has gotten so fucking disturbing in the last few years.

 

[hauton]

What's with the hostility bro? You want Sony to take away features that some people may have payed for?

Even if they have something in their legal stuff that you agree to it's bullshit for the people who bought their console in part because they wanted to use the Other OS feature. It's not cool either way, so why try to stick up for the bully?

What hostility? I'm just pointing out how silly it is to threaten a gigantic corporation stacked with lawyers up the ying-yang with a class-action lawsuit that won't gain much traction and probably won't stand up in court.

EDIT: I haven't even considered how few people would sign said class-action. If you don't already have OtherOS installed, do you realistically have a legitimate claim to the so-called "theft of services"? That you don't use?

 

[Brofist]

In that case, I shall sue Microsoft for shutting down all Xbox Live support for original Xbox titles in a few days, since I bought titles off the Xbox Originals marketplace and a Xbox Live Gold account to play them. Now I can't.
.

I'm sure there's a "you're shit out of luck" clause in the EULA somewhere like there is in basically any online service where the right to shut it down at any time is reserved.

 

[SmokyDave]

I normally hate these kind of posts but I must admit, the fact there's a defence force for this is disappointing. At what point do gamers cease to be consumers? When they get a GAF account? When they're 'hardcore'? Is it a 'fanboy' thing?

 

[Paraclete]

I'd love to see this thread if it was regarding Honda and removing AC/CD player/power windows. Those aren't features anyone uses amirite?

 

[RedNumberFive]

GAFfer tendencies to to defend corporations screwing over consumers and developers has gotten so fucking disturbing in the last few years.

Yeah, I completely agree, as it absolutely blows my mind. I figured most of the posts in here would be from users who would say something like: "That's a bummer, but I never really used it." Instead, we have posts that are actually glad that they took it out!

 

[gofreak]

The main problem isn't Linux. The exploit isn't based on Linux (or Other OS), Linux is just a convenient way to work with the actual exploit. It's just one vector, hackers expect to find other vectors in the future that work on the Slim as well - which should be possible because the actual hack does not really rely on Other OS in any way.

But it's one way to get at it and was discovered via hacking through Linux. Even if Sony can fix the underlying problem they probably don't want the otheros access around to make it easier for people to find others. The problem remains that Linux is not their platform, they can't control or patch it. They either allow it or don't.

Uh, yes you can. Both are advertised on the back of the box I fucking bought. Removing one or the other is bullshit as I paid for the hardware and want what's advertised. Even if I don't use many of the features removing them is bullshit.

You didn't read my post, did you? I was discussing the difference in the context of this setting a precedent for the removal of other features, not in the context of relative 'badness' of removing otheros vs those features. Linux is unique in terms of the 'whys' of removing it vs being able to patch vulnerabilities out in their own software/os.

 

[BobsRevenge]

I would fully support you in this; MS took away a feature that you paid for and you have every right to demand a response from MS.

Live is almost definitely something that has legal speak that says they can shut it down whenever they want, unfortunately.

 

[DataBot]

I feel sorry for those that are like: "wow another update awesome!"
and than think : " WTF! where my Linux!".
And than notice they have been screwed by Sony.

 

[PuppetMaster]

One of my PS3s has Linux running on it. It was fun when the system launched to play around with it. But at this point I really don't care about it anymore. I'll leave that one machine unpatched just for the novelty of it though.

But really, the only thing I have used less than Linux on my PS3 is the PS2 BC

 

[gregor7777]

I feel sorry for those that are like: "wow another update awesome!"
and than think : " WTF! where my Linux!".
And than notice they have been screwed by Sony.

I'd be very surprised if there isn't some kind of warning.

 

[RedNumberFive]

I'd love to see this thread if it was regarding Honda and removing AC/CD player/power windows. Those aren't features anyone uses amirite?

Personally, I don't use my CD player (aux input FTW), so I think it's fine that they are removed from all of your vehicles. CD players are not secure, because you can play burnt CDRs. I think it is a necessary security precaution, and I am willing to give up my freedoms so that the RIAA gets their fair due. If you MUST have one, just buy a discman. Simple as that!