mclem said:Out of interest, doesn't this mean that they could - legally - release an update to a self-destruct firmware which removes your ability to do anything other then use the web browser on your PS3 and which triggers, say, three months after the release of the PS4?
mclem said:Out of interest, doesn't this mean that they could - legally - release an update to a self-destruct firmware which removes your ability to do anything other then use the web browser on your PS3 and which triggers, say, three months after the release of the PS4?
For software, that battle has been 'lost' a long time ago. And consumers have made a statement about it with their wallets - the most commercially successful gaming software today is centered around business models where you don't even own a piece of plastic anymore.iapetus said:I'll tell you how we lose. We lose if it's determined that we never own the hardware and software we purchase
You're assuming that's possible in the first place - I'm not sure even Sony knows if they could actually do that.GSG Flash said:the correct response would have been to leave OtherOS in but then ban anyone from PSN that was accessing it with a CFW, if there was even ever going to be a CFW in the first place.
master15 said:Is Youtube no longer working on the browser? It's asking me to upgrade the flash player and adobe's website isn't allowing this.
Fafalada said:For software, that battle has been 'lost' a long time ago.
(d) show the quality and performance which are normal in goods of the same type and which the consumer can reasonably expect, given the nature of the goods and taking into account any public statements on the specific characteristics of the goods made about them by the seller, the producer or his representative, particularly in advertising or on labelling.
SS4Rob said:I wish I had read the end of this thread before I took the time to configure my DNS server here - now that DNS spoofing is blocked, what can we do next? I actually use my Linux partition - not a ton mind you, but I've booted into in the past month *sigh*.
onken said:Disable Javascript.
shagg_187 said:FUCKING SONY!!!
My 60GB PS3 is back from the repair store. They fucking deleted all my data!! I specifically mentioned not to do that!! FUCK!!!!!!!!!
Good news: They restored the firmware update to 3.15, So I guess I'm going to ebay it...
FUCK!
Kai Ozu said:How long did it take to get back to you?
shagg_187 said:Less than 3 days. From the looks of it, they changed the entire hardware inside since I couldn't back up my old data onto it as it said "Data backup on a different PS3. Some data cannot be backed up. Are you sure?", followed by "Error: Data not found" even though it's all there.
Oh well, fucking shit!
playstationlifestyle.ne:Kyle P said:Sony Refuses PS3-Linux Reimbursment
04/17/2010 Written by Kyle P.
Gamers around the world are still furious over Sony’s recent decision to remove the popular “OtherOS” feature from their PlayStation 3’s. This feature allowed gamers to install Linux and other popular Operation System’s onto their PS3. Once an important selling point early in the console’s life, Sony entirely removed the feature in the slimmed down 120GB PS3, which released last September. However, the option was still available to all of the earlier models of the PlayStation 3’s–the “Fat” models. Sony made the decision to remove the feature, from all models, when noted iPhone jailbreaker known as Geohot “100% hacked the PS3“. Obviously, this worried Sony, as they would not allow their behemoth vulnerable to hacking, which would lead down the road to open piracy. So earlier this month, they removed the feature from all versions of the console, via firmware 3.21. Gamers who did not want to download the mandatory update would not be able to play the newest version of Blu-Rays or connect to the PlayStation Network. With this incident, many gamers are crying foul play and are demanding reimbursement for their console. Unfortunately, it seems like Sony won’t be playing that game.
A Sony representative commented on Amazon UK’s recent decision to partially refund the price of a PlayStation 3, after the disgruntled owner cited broken European consumer protection law–most notable, the Sales of Goods Act. However, a recent comment from PR head honcho David Wilson cemented Sony’s position, saying that Sony will not reimburse retailers who offer refunds to gamers who are upset over the Linux removal.
“We do understand the frustration a small number of consumers may feel at SCE’s decision to provide an upgrade to the firmware to disable the Linux operating system but we refute any suggestion that this action is in any way a contravention of the terms of Sale of Goods Act.”
Wilson continued, calling the PS3 “first and foremost a games console”.
“The PS3 is first and foremost a games console and our marketing materials for the console reflect this. The console packaging and the in-box manual for the console do not refer to the use of Linux on the console. Rather, the console packaging states that the product’s design and specifications are subject to change without notice and that the system software within the console is subject to a limited licence between SCE and the consumer, and this licence permits SCE to update the system software and services offered from time to time.”
Certainly, this will just add more fuel to the fire. The argument of gamers worldwide is that Sony advertised and talked about the OtherOS feature. Removing a feature they advertised breaks many of the consumer protection laws, worldwide. Many people are furious over Sony’s decision, and are seriously considering banding together, in a class action lawsuit. And they do have some ground to go on. Before the PlayStation 3 launched in November of 2006, Ken Kutaragi, then-President of SCE, praised the PS3, for being more than a computer.
“Speaking about the PS3, we never said we will release a game console. It is radically different from the previous PlayStation. It is clearly a computer.”
And let’s not forget about the “Open Platform” webpage, that clearly boasts the console’s ability to run a completely new Operating System. Or the GDC 2007 interview with Kai Staats, Co-Founder and CEO of Terra Soft Solutions, who explicitly states that Sony contracted his company to design a version of YellowDogLinux to run on the PlayStation 3.
However, Sony is not backing down. They cite that the same Sales of Goods Act gamers are using to their defense, can also be used to aid themselves.
“The provision in the Sale of Goods Act which requires an item to be fit for a purpose made known by the consumer to the retailer prior to purchase and confirmed by the retailer applies only to the contract between the retailer and the consumer. The decision by Amazon to give a consumer a partial refund is clearly between Amazon and the consumer, but we do not expect the decision to have a legal basis and we have no plans to compensate retailers.”
It will be interesting to see, over the coming months, whether a lawsuit is filed. Until then, we will all just have to hope Sony will add features to the PlayStation 3, not remove them. Did you ever use the “OtherOS” feature? If so, are you still using it? Did you update? Post your responses in the comments section below.
state_vector_collapse said:So Sony are now stressing it is first and foremost a games console. Not quite the stance they took when pitching it with Other OS got them tax breaks (assuming that was true?)
iapetus said:I'm having a quiet family weekend this weekend - if I'm still as furious about this on Monday as I am now, I'll dig out the UK law and see which it is.
(2D) If the buyer deals as consumer or, in Scotland, if a contract of sale is a consumer contract, the relevant circumstances mentioned in subsection (2A) above include any public statements on the specific characteristics of the goods made about them by the seller, the producer or his representative, particularly in advertising or on labelling.
The fricking UK government said:A consumer contract excluding liability for defective goods would be automatically invalid.
shagg_187 said:FUCKING SONY!!!
My 60GB PS3 is back from the repair store. They fucking deleted all my data!! I specifically mentioned not to do that!! FUCK!!!!!!!!!
Good news: They restored the firmware update to 3.15, So I guess I'm going to ebay it...
FUCK!
rainer516 said:A professor of mine had been using the linux feature to compile and run computation software on the PS3. It's a freaking supercomputer for cheap, it was able to do monte carlo simulations that took a week on the engineering computer cluster in 3 days. Removing this feature is a sad day for computational mathematicians and ops research people everywhere.
corrosivefrost said:No more work arounds and no word from geohot, eh?
I'm trying to hold out as long as I can, but I kind of want to get in on the WipEout HD sale and Super Street Fighter IV is in a week... then the MW2 stimulus pack.
I'm trying to sell my console for the cost of a slim, but nobody's biting yet -- doesn't seem like 3.15 fw is much of a selling point -- the BC seemingly is the bigger selling point still.
patsu said:Well, your professor also doesn't have to upgrade their PS3 right ?
corrosivefrost said:No more work arounds and no word from geohot, eh?
I'm trying to hold out as long as I can, but I kind of want to get in on the WipEout HD sale and Super Street Fighter IV is in a week... then the MW2 stimulus pack.
I'm trying to sell my console for the cost of a slim, but nobody's biting yet -- doesn't seem like 3.15 fw is much of a selling point -- the BC seemingly is the bigger selling point still.
RedNumberFive said:I suppose that he doesn't. But anyone else that wants to use it for education / research is pretty much boned, eh? Let's hope his professor never gets a YLOD!
charlequin said:Oh, I absolutely agree. I'm just noting the difference between what I usually do in these threads (rage briefly against the dying of the light, argue with some viral corporate shills who haven't gotten banhammered yet, get bored of the repetition and move on) and what I can do in this thread (actually be excited that someone has something useful to do about this particular instance of corporate tomfoolery.)
Well, quite honestly, what are you supposed to do with the industry in the state it's in right now to use your purchasing patterns to send any kind of message?
Sony removing features, spitting on BC, and pricing their system at launch at an insulting amount
The industry is a mess and without some kind of collective recognition of just how crappy it's gotten in these areas, it's likely to remain a mess in every direction. And unfortunately, if other industries are any indication, recognition of that type would take the form of drastically rising piracy rates combined with plummeting sales -- not something I'm necessarily looking to advocate for even if it might lead to a significant improvement in the long run like it's done in the music industry.
obonicus said:In fact it seems like the other way around. DRM-heavy schemes are proving quite successful. Even this thing; Sony's going to get out of this relatively unscathed, I'm sure of it. The main result is that we'll never see 'OtherOS' again on a major console.
You probably don't mean 99.999999%. Because that would mean at least a million PS3s have OtherOS installed. And only one out of a million PS3s with OtherOS also dual boot.Valkyr Junkie said:I would imagine most PS3s currently being utilized for OtherOS never even see GameOS, let alone connect to PSN. And by most I mean (99.999999%)
LQX said:My PS3 is still on the pre-3.21. By chance are these now sought after? I may sell my 80GB fat to get a Slim.
Game said:I understand your disappointment with the removal of the alternative operating system functionality of the PS3. The decision to remove this functionality was made by Sony in an effort to combat piracy. Please refer to paragraph 10 of the PlayStation Network Terms of Service and User Agreement dealing with Maintenance and Upgrades. This provision permits Sony to effect upgrades which may change users current operating system and could cause "loss of data or content, or loss of function or utility."
I apologise for any disappointment this may cause.
ChronicleX said:Personally get a slim and keep the fat until something does happen. They will always be worth something due to linux but if the PS3 does get hacked good and proper they will be worth a fortune.
J Tourettes said:Has anyone else had there's automatically update? Wtf!