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[HeresJohnny]

Eh, it looks pretty cool, but my feelings on controllers haven't really changed: I want to forget I'm holding a controller, and controllers that are so very impressed with themselves that they make themselves the focal point of the experience end up constantly pulling me out of the game and reminding me I'm not really in that world. It's one of the main reasons I never got into the Wii much. I'm pretty much a staunch traditionist when it comes to controls. Don't get me wrong; I'm sure it will have cool uses and what not (as we've seen with the Astrobot game) but I have a feeling that will wear off after a couple hundred times and people won't care anymore after a few months of it being out.

 

[Dnice123]

PS5 will be the best place to play third party games based on the controller alone

I'm starting to believe so myself. This isn't touchpad or gyro where a developer has to build around those functionalities. Using the Triggers and haptic/rumble are core to just about every game regardless of controller.

From all the reviews I've seen the duelsense could make the game experience on 3rd party titles different than playing on Series X/S. I can't wait to hear the comparisons, because I'm starting to feel like Microsoft has goofed again. Their focus on power and "compatibility" as opposed to innovation is starting to look like a massive miscalculation.

 

[BlueXImpulse]

I'm starting to believe so myself. This isn't touchpad or gyro where a developer has to build around those functionalities. Using the Triggers and haptic/rumble are core to just about every game regardless of controller.

From all the reviews I've seen the duelsense could make the game experience on 3rd party titles different than playing on Series X/S. I can't wait to hear the comparisons, because I'm starting to feel like Microsoft has goofed again. Their focus on power and "compatibility" as opposed to innovation is starting to look like a massive miscalculation.

It's easier to market stuff like super fast loading and immersive controllers than it is to market a slightly more powerful GPU. So they might have messed up, but they could always release a new controller mid gen.

 

[TGO]

Just remember that are numerous lunatics here who insist that DF are MS shills.

That Video is done by D dark10x though, not saying the other two are shills, but they biased in they're own little way.

 

[Calverz]

Why do that? Just mute it.

Dont want sony listening in.

 

[Dnice123]

It's easier to market stuff like super fast loading and immersive controllers than it is to market a slightly more powerful GPU. So they might have messed up, but they could always release a new controller mid gen.

That's the frustrating part. Microsoft actually has a patent for a feature similar to adaptive triggers.

MOTOR-DRIVEN ADJUSTABLE-TENSION TRIGGER

Complete Patent Searching Database and Patent Data Analytics Services.

www.freepatentsonline.com

The haptic actuator tech used in the Duelsense and HD Rumble are licensed from Immersion Haptics so I'm sure Microsoft could have done the same.

 

[Calverz]

It's easier to market stuff like super fast loading and immersive controllers than it is to market a slightly more powerful GPU. So they might have messed up, but they could always release a new controller mid gen.

True. We all know what happened to the sixacis controller

 

[BlueXImpulse]

Dont want sony listening in.

Fair enough.

That's the frustrating part. Microsoft actually has a patent for a feature similar to adaptive triggers.

MOTOR-DRIVEN ADJUSTABLE-TENSION TRIGGER

Complete Patent Searching Database and Patent Data Analytics Services.

www.freepatentsonline.com

The haptic actuator tech used in the Duelsense and HD Rumble are licensed from Immersion Haptics so I'm sure Microsoft could have done the same.

They should be able to get similar tech together in a controller in a few years. Whether they do that or not we'll have to see, they already have a perfectly fine controller for XSX, it just doesn't have all the advanced features, so there's no real rush to replace it. But they can package later XSX models with a new controller as an incentive. Who knows when it will happen, but I just know it will happen. That's why it's confusing when people downplay the Dualsense. Surely they realize that at some point Microsoft themselves will adopt similar tech? All of these companies "copy" each other, it's business. It's like expecting AMD not to have a DLSS alternative at some point. It's going to happen.

True. We all know what happened to the sixacis controller

Yes they eventually released Dualshock 3 like a year after. So these things can happen.

 

[MasterCornholio]

That's the frustrating part. Microsoft actually has a patent for a feature similar to adaptive triggers.

MOTOR-DRIVEN ADJUSTABLE-TENSION TRIGGER

Complete Patent Searching Database and Patent Data Analytics Services.

www.freepatentsonline.com

The haptic actuator tech used in the Duelsense and HD Rumble are licensed from Immersion Haptics so I'm sure Microsoft could have done the same.

Yep I'm pretty sure they could have the same Haptics they Sony has if they really wanted it. My guess as to why they didn't do this is because of cost especially since they have to bundle a controller with a 300$ system.

 

[BlueXImpulse]

Yep I'm pretty sure they could have the same Haptics they Sony has if they really wanted it. My guess as to why they didn't do this is because of cost especially since they have to bundle a controller with a 300$ system.

Maybe they will release an Elite 3 with these features. But I personally think they should release a newer standard controller with these features with new XSX models maybe in 2 years time.

 

[Hezekiah]

Maybe they will release an Elite 3 with these features. But I personally think they should release a newer standard controller with these features with new XSX models maybe in 2 years time.

But that should be out at the begining of a new generation, that's when you want to see innovation.

After copying the share button it would look a bit embarrassing too, and make them look backwards.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

This guy compares the DualSense to the Series X controller.

 

[THEAP99]

"The dual sense is the most next-gen thing about ANY of the next-gen consoles"




Wew. And to think, just months ago doubters were saying "Xbox has had this since 2013." Even some news outlets grouped the DualSense and Xbox controller haptics into the same categories, embarrassing journalism.

Well I have something to say about that claim "they're the same:"

If they're the same, then why does this same group of people say this feature will die out since it won't be used by third-party developers? If the Xbox's haptics matched the dual sense's, then CLEARLY they could support both! But one is further ahead than the other! I think whenever Xbox releases another console mid-gen refresh - whatever, they will introduce a newly updated controller with better haptic technology.

 

[THE DUCK]

I can't wait to try this to see for myself if its actually much better or just a very mild upgrade. I want it to be a big upgrade, but history has taught me not to trust rumble/force feedback pr.

 

[Knitted Knight]

Is there a way to physically remove the microphone by opening it up. Has anyone tried yet?

If you want to go to that extreme (not using mute button etc) then Yes - you can remove both the noise-cancelling and the input microphone (see the teardown video in the OP). I'm however unsure if the board has some sort of component self check.

 

[Empire Strikes Back]

Haptics preview on PC, give it a try guys

DualSense™ |OT| Touch Your Dreams™ OT

I threw together a really quick tutorial for anyone that doesn't know how to route audio to the haptic channels on the controller. It's super simple:

www.resetera.com

 

[jaysius]

Shows the triggers at the 26 minute mark.

The triggers have all plastic gears, this is an interesting approach for a toy used by maladapted rage filled kidults(I’m sure Sony did testing on this, but this is a unique thing) it’ll be interesting to see how long we go without real problems in these. Placing resistance on plastic gears, and forcing beyond the resistance that’s being offered(you know it will happen) sounds like a way to break shit.

Also the more intricate and more moving parts you put in something that requires repetitive use, the more likely something will break.

Wait and see how much all of these great gimmicks eat into the battery life, it might be a big discouraging factor too.

Also call this a revolution when it’s adopted by a majority of games over the next year, I’m not saying all these gimmicks won’t be, but it’s WAY TOO EARLY to call this a REVOLUTION, people who’ve done that too early in the past have ended up eating crow. It’d be great if it caught on, it would be a real revolution, right now? It’s a concept that early PS5 adopters are testing.

Many reviewers LOVE IT if you notice they all have the same pattern of saying the things, this is called a talking point, maybe most of them believe it, but this might just be the hype machine churning full bore.

Real revolutions take TIME.

Wait and see if this is adopted in a year, then run to the highest towers screaming revolution, see if all these tiny parts have early deaths. Dual Shock 4 had some disgusting early batch growing pains.

 

[Knitted Knight]

All of that is in the OP. I think it's well past the concept stage per the definition of concept. I listed 26 games with documented examples using it, and there are more games that have announced support but have not provided details (because the console has yet to release, and the games are not finalized).

Revolution is a descriptive term borrowed from nemesis Richard Leadbetter who used it to describe the pad. In a way it encapsulates all the praise the controller is getting, as well as the variety of features included within the controller which go beyond just the haptics or the triggers. The sum of its parts is what makes it a great controller and piece of tech. It's highly more probable that Microsoft releases an updated version of the Xbox controller with these features down the line than this dying out without developer support. It's a revolution that's upon us.

 

[Tajaz2426]

All of that is in the OP. I think it's past the concept stage per the definition of concept. I listed 26 games with documented examples using it, and there are more that have announced support but have not provided details yet as the console has yet to release, and the games as well.

Revolution is a discriptive term borrowed from nemesis Rirchard Leadbetter. In a way it encapsulates all the praise the controller is getting, as well as the variety of features included within the controller which go beyond just the haptics or the triggers. The sum of its parts is what makes it a great controller and piece of tech.

Innovation has to start somewhere. Where we go from here and this controller will be fascinating in the future.

 

[jose4gg]

Shows the triggers at the 26 minute mark.

The triggers have all plastic gears, this is an interesting approach for a toy used by maladapted rage filled kidults(I’m sure Sony did testing on this, but this is a unique thing) it’ll be interesting to see how long we go without real problems in these. Placing resistance on plastic gears, and forcing beyond the resistance that’s being offered(you know it will happen) sounds like a way to break shit.

Also the more intricate and more moving parts you put in something that requires repetitive use, the more likely something will break.

Also call this a revolution when it’s adopted by a majority of games over the next year, I’m not saying all these gimmicks won’t be, but it’s WAY TOO EARLY to call this a REVOLUTION, people who’ve done that too early in the past have ended up eating crow. It’d be great if it caught on, it would be a real revolution, right now? It’s a concept that early PS5 adopters are testing.

Wait and see if this is adopted in a year, then run to the highest towers screaming revolution, see if all these tiny parts have early deaths.

If you go beyond the resistance you will simply move the motor to the end of it, it gives you resistance but it isn't going to put more force to go against a human, so it will never break... If I'm understanding the mechanism correctly...

 

[Blond]

Any reports on battery life yet? I know they say double the PS4 by considering that it could be from 4-7 hours I don’t think 8-14 is a good number.

 

[THEAP99]

i am slightly worried that astro playroom implementation is going to be fucking fantastic but then we may go to try other games and it won't have that same effort, causing for disappointment from a lot of people and reviewers. but I guess we will find how on the 6th just how good spiderman and demon's souls implemented it!
shit, just make asobi team a dedicated dualsense studio lol

 

[Knitted Knight]

If you go beyond the resistance you will simply move the motor to the end of it, it gives you resistance but it isn't going to put more force to go against a human, so it will never break... If I'm understanding the mechanism correctly...

Everything breaks, but hopefully most of the failures will occur as designed from normal wear and tear. Hopefully failures will happen outside the warranty period at the very least (meaning the parts can at least hold a full year of wear and tear). We can't absolutely say it won't have a factory defect, or have high failure rates above "normal" because it's a new tech/mechanism. But certainly designers didn't design it with high failure rates in mind. What should worry us in this regard then is whether the controller still has a 1-year warranty like the DS4 (unlike the 90 days for Elites - which MS correctly extended to 1 year), and that the process for warranty repair is smooth.

 

[jaysius]

All of that is in the OP. I think it's well past the concept stage per the definition of concept. I listed 26 games with documented examples using it, and there are more games that have announced support but have not provided details (because the console has yet to release, and the games are not finalized).

Revolution is a descriptive term borrowed from nemesis Richard Leadbetter who used it to describe the pad. In a way it encapsulates all the praise the controller is getting, as well as the variety of features included within the controller which go beyond just the haptics or the triggers. The sum of its parts is what makes it a great controller and piece of tech. It's highly more probable that Microsoft releases an updated version of the Xbox controller with these features down the line than this dying out without developer support. It's a revolution that's upon us.

That is a far more lucid take than what is being key vomited in 95% of this thread.

Hyperbole is running wilder than a kid that just broke into the parents‘ liquor cabinet.

 

[jose4gg]

Everything breaks, but hopefully most of the failures will occur as designed from normal wear and tear. Hopefully failures will happen outside the warranty period at the very least (meaning the parts can at least hold a full year of wear and tear). We can't absolutely say it won't have a factory defect, or have high failure rates above "normal" because it's a new tech/mechanism. But certainly designers didn't design it with high failure rates in mind. What should worry us in this regard then is whether the controller still has a 1-year warranty like the DS4 (unlike the 90 days for Elites - which MS correctly extended to 1 year), and that the process for warranty repair is smooth.

I understand that, what I'm trying to say is that there will never be a point where the user force and the DS force will go against each other causing the plastic to break, if the user presses the button hard, it will rotate the motor to the end and that's it, it hard enough to create a feeling of resistance but not hard enough to make you fight with it causing the plastic to break.

 

[Knitted Knight]

I understand that, what I'm trying to say is that there will never be a point where the user force and the DS force will go against each other causing the plastic to break, if the user presses the button hard, it will rotate the motor to the end and that's it, it hard enough to create a feeling of resistance but not hard enough to make you fight with it causing the plastic to break.

Ohh for sure. I don't think the jamming on Deathloop will be as many people picture it to be. My guess is that it will be highly resistant to downward pressure with an instant boost of sudden tension but it will give in a bit. That's where the on-screen animations and HUD plays a role in informing the player what's actually going on, corroborated by the unusual sudden high tension he's feeling on the triggers. Both working in tandem for more immersion. After many play sessions the rules per say become second nature to the player. It's no longer a "surprise" thing. The player feels the high tension, subconciously he already knows that the weapon is jammed and needs to reload/weapon switch.

 

[THEAP99]

Someone should make a tempest engine revolution thread. I'm really hoping the audio they got going on the ps5 is as good and upgraded hyped as the controller

 

[THEAP99]

People in this whole thread are concerned about the durability of this.

I hope we don't see widespread issues day one of people like smashing down on the triggers and it breaking

 

[Zannegan]

It's very cool to see a company put some effort into advancing their controller. On the other hand, I can't say it's everything I've been hoping for because they left out one simple addition that would have made it a must buy FPS machine for me: back paddles/grip buttons.

The triggers are especially neat--much more than just a suped up version of the XB1's rumble triggers.

 

[Dnice123]

People in this whole thread are concerned about the durability of this.

I hope we don't see widespread issues day one of people like smashing down on the triggers and it breaking

Hmm, I wonder how long is Sony's warranty on controllers? I know MS has that BS 90 day warranty. I guess MS is sitting back to see how durable this is in the real word. Their patent for "force feedback triggers" show several different designs for the internal mechanisms.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Wonderful OP. It seems very easy to implement as it's using sound as a source of how they trigger the haptic feedback.

 

[onQ123]

Opinion - Microsoft is creating a marketing problem for Xbox Series X that 12 TFLOPs can't fix, and PS5 / Switch are going to walk all over it

They want to use the Xbox One & PC as a crutch in case Xbox Series X don't sell enough to support the developers which is a smart move but Xbox Series X also need it's own identity outside of just having a new tower design. When it's time for the commercials & Sony have people in ads faking...

www.neogaf.com

When it's time for the commercials & Sony have people in ads faking like the touch sensors in the DualSense have changed their life Xbox Series X can't really counter that.

Look like Sony don't even need the ads the media is doing it for them & I think Microsoft will have to respond within the next 2 years with a new controller

 

[Darklor01]

People in this whole thread are concerned about the durability of this.

I hope we don't see widespread issues day one of people like smashing down on the triggers and it breaking

I do share the concern... but, do we really think they didn’t test the ever loving heck out of the thing... especially on what happens when someone gets frustrated and fights back against the trigger? I imagine a situation in a Call of Duty game where I go to shoot and get trigger lock..legit trigger lock. Someone is going to lose their head and go nuts on the trigger. I have to imagine they tested that scenario an insane amount of times.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Looks like it really is rumble triggers. Nice they threw some buzzwords on it.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Opinion - Microsoft is creating a marketing problem for Xbox Series X that 12 TFLOPs can't fix, and PS5 / Switch are going to walk all over it

They want to use the Xbox One & PC as a crutch in case Xbox Series X don't sell enough to support the developers which is a smart move but Xbox Series X also need it's own identity outside of just having a new tower design. When it's time for the commercials & Sony have people in ads faking...

www.neogaf.com

Look like Sony don't even need the ads the media is doing it for them & I think Microsoft will have to respond within the next 2 years with a new controller

Honestly, before those hands-on reviews, I didn't take DualSense that seriously, and expected only a mild upgrade!

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

The controller is pure magic to use.

I too have concerns over its durability

 

[Knitted Knight]

The controller is pure magic to use.

I too have concerns over its durability

If we get to |OT2| we already have the OT title: Pure magic.

 

[onQ123]

Honestly, before those hands-on reviews, I didn't take DualSense that seriously, and expected only a mild upgrade!

I expected it & even wanted more (pressure sensors on the thumbstick & other stuff) but I knew for sure they was serious when they changed the name to DualSense

 

[FrankWza]

Hmm, I wonder how long is Sony's warranty on controllers? I know MS has that BS 90 day warranty. I guess MS is sitting back to see how durable this is in the real word. Their patent for "force feedback triggers" show several different designs for the internal mechanisms.

I think Msoft upped the warranty on the elite to 1 year

 

[onQ123]

In the end I think one of the biggest impact is going to come from having a standard Mic on every PS5 controller.

Setting standards mean a lot more than just having something as a option and now every dev can make their games knowing that it can use voice commands & interact with the players. Games can just randomly break the fourth wall.

You can pretty much talk to Alexa & Google about anything so picture a game with that type of interaction.

 

[mortal]

Yong's play by play got me really enthusiastic to get my hands on DualSense.

 

[Blitzmangoman]

Watched this



video and great, Sony is using the exact same Sticks. So Stick Drift will be a problem, again! I can't believe they didn't give us something better. Every single one of my DS4 had Stick Drift. I don't throw my controllers or anything before someone says that, lol.
Pretty disappointed tbh and I was so looking for this.

 

[Knitted Knight]

video and great, Sony is using the exact same Sticks. So Stick Drift will be a problem, again! I can't believe they didn't give us something better. Every single one of my DS4 had Stick Drift. I don't throw my controllers or anything before someone says that, lol.
Pretty disappointed tbh and I was so looking for this.

Timestamped. There are differences. Watch this:

 

[Blitzmangoman]

Timestamped. There are differences. Watch this:

Should have waited for your timestamp, Jesus I had to endure 12 unskippable ads.
Hmm seems like a bit of improvement which gives me a little bit more hope.
I still believe we will get a lot of stick issues though.

 

[Knitted Knight]

Should have waited for your timestamp, Jesus I had to endure 12 unskippable ads.
Hmm seems like a bit of improvement which gives me a little bit more hope.
I still believe we will get a lot of stick issues though.

It's a QOL improvement based on usage habits. They know the problem so a simple tweak such as that one helps the part perform much better and as a result, last longer.

As you can see in the video when forward sprinting (by clicking) the little lever will not make great contact on the sides. On the DS4 the mechanism behaved like this 100% of the time because that lever sat on the side (when forward sprinting). With the QOL tweak the mechanism now faces forward so the downward force is 100% concentrated on where it needs to be - and makes much more cleaner contact, with less effort. Not only does it give a more satisfying feedback response to the player (the click, and in-game movement response) but it also improves the wear and tear of the part as it requires less "fail retry" when seeking clean contact.

We'll see how it performs long term with that tweak. I don't think it erases potential stick drift issues 100% but I think, as the youtuber mentioned, improve its operation for far longer - not to mention functionally perform and feel better for the player. Destiny killed mine and it's an annoying pain when you have to retry the clicks. I'm excited to check if the improvement is noticeable.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

nvm

 

[LordOfChaos]

That Video is done by D dark10x though, not saying the other two are shills, but they biased in they're own little way.

Uggh I want to know what he's talking about here!

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Timestamped. There are differences. Watch this:

Killer video. Thanks!

 

[jaysius]

Why do that? Just mute it.

Mute isn’t really what MUTE used to be on these devices anymore. Assume every mic is always hit, because it usually is these days for the devices to readily receive voice commands they have to hear everything, even after being “muted” you’ll probably still be feeding meta data to whoever owns the device. Nobody at any company is actually LISTENING to you, they’re just parsing your speech for patterns and maybe doing some AI learning or inserting ads into your stuff based on what you’ve said(been proven on phones/tablets).

There’s no need to be paranoid about another human HEARING what you’ve said, you’d probably have to be pretty interesting for that to actually happen as your speech patterns would have to be an outlier that requires further research, with all the google homes and alexas and voice command remotes, these companies have heard IT ALL.

At launch we’ll get the top YOUTUBE nuts anlyzing this and packet sniffing the data leaving the PS5 to determine that the Mute doesn’t really stop the listening. Wait for them to tell you what to gum it up with so it can’t listen before you gum it up with something that doesn’t work, I’m sure gumming it up will work better than trying to take this apart and break the mic.

 

[Rayderism]

It's already been mentioned above, but I can't help but think those mechanics for the triggers will wear and fail rather quickly. I mean, they are just plastic, or nylon or some other form of spaceage polymer formula. The gear teeth and the screw gear look almost guaranteed to fail within a year or two of heavy use. And you can't blame gamers for being too aggressive with them......you are not always aware of how hard you are being on the controller during an intense section of a game.

Also, it looks like the trigger uses a sort of ratcheting effect when you let go of the trigger. That too will wear quickly because it's plastic.

It looks like some of that mechanics should have used metal components for durability. But you know how corporations look at it......it only needs to last through the warranty period. And they'll be more than happy to sell you another one. Besides, plastic is cheaper than metal.