Shows you that I dont have a fucking clue, haha.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Shows you that I dont have a fucking clue, haha.
Keihart
Member
I've been using smokes since season 1 when nobody used them almost, it was always very useful if you knew what you were doing. My problem is with how they are taking nuance out to make it more comfortable. Same with "fixing" HDR which is them just removing that feature that was there by design.
Fixing smoke position and replication in clients by making it more server side, awesome. Taking out the nuances of it and making it a gray block not really what i expected from the devs. But obviously, the emphasis on using lighting as a mechanic has gone out of the window now, the way they are removing dynamic lighting sources and HDR, to make more room for new features like making character skins look prettier are clearly their new focus.
Not like i'm gonna stop playing this, but it bothers me greatly because i enjoy using the environment, lighting and audio included , to take advantage of situations in siege.
Edit: One change that you can bet is going to happen with smoke now is that defenders are gonna be very confident rushing through it. As is, you can see clearly someone's silhouette inside the smoke if you are outside of it, with the gray block you won't see them until they leave the smoke cloud.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
the lighting changes are definitely making the levels look more flat. I wouldnt say the blinding version we had before was good, but it definitely looks better than the flat version incoming.
I also am all for the reasoning behind the smoke changes, but it could've been implemented to look better. Procedurally generated complex smoke with a server side designated start points should be able to give complex smoke that is mirrored to all clients without compromising its look. Go from there to making it look thicker.
I also am all for the reasoning behind the smoke changes, but it could've been implemented to look better. Procedurally generated complex smoke with a server side designated start points should be able to give complex smoke that is mirrored to all clients without compromising its look. Go from there to making it look thicker.
While I agree that bloom should have been adjusted in intensity rather than being removed. It's important to note that they aren't removing HDR, it's still going to be there, they are just removing the eye adaptation. And honestly eye adaptation is way way way overdone in games because they all do it from the perspective of a camera rather than eye (which can adjust and focus (MUCH more quickly).
Additionally, Siege never did the "adaptation" part. In the real world your eye...and any camera would adjust the exposure so that after the initial overexposure the bright light will tone down because the aperture/iris would adjust i.e. shrink to accommodate for that. Consecutively, this means if you turn away and look inside everything will be dark for a second or two. This entire process holds true in an opposite situation as well i.e. when you are in a bright area and look indoors everything will be dark for a second or two, then normalise, but if you look at the bright area again everything will be overexposed.
In Siege, this adaptation never happens, what's bright stays bright and what's dark stays dark regardless of how long you look at it...and that's a bit unrealistic. What's also unrealistic is that in several indoor locations in the game you have normal light sources that are low to moderate in terms of brightness and don't cause any issues....until you move away from that area and look at that location from a distance. When you do that, often this area will end up looking overexposed due to bloom...eventhough the actual lightsource is not bright enough to cause such an exposure.
Additionally, Siege never did the "adaptation" part. In the real world your eye...and any camera would adjust the exposure so that after the initial overexposure the bright light will tone down because the aperture/iris would adjust i.e. shrink to accommodate for that. Consecutively, this means if you turn away and look inside everything will be dark for a second or two. This entire process holds true in an opposite situation as well i.e. when you are in a bright area and look indoors everything will be dark for a second or two, then normalise, but if you look at the bright area again everything will be overexposed.
In Siege, this adaptation never happens, what's bright stays bright and what's dark stays dark regardless of how long you look at it...and that's a bit unrealistic. What's also unrealistic is that in several indoor locations in the game you have normal light sources that are low to moderate in terms of brightness and don't cause any issues....until you move away from that area and look at that location from a distance. When you do that, often this area will end up looking overexposed due to bloom...eventhough the actual lightsource is not bright enough to cause such an exposure.
Keihart
Member
i mean, i understand that neither the HDR effect that tried to emulate eye adaptation nor the smoke were super realistic, but i liked that they tried to make both effects in the game have and effect on gameplay based on reality, it was a compromise, but a deliberate one.
The whole lighting system and destruction and sound is full of little tricks to make it work on a gameplay level even if not completely realistic.
For me this is just taking pieces out of a sandbox because they weren't perfect and people who didn't knew or didn't like to fiddle with them complained.
Have you guys noticed how dynamics lights have been taken out of some maps? I used to use some to spot enemies around the corner or staying behind some to blind people looking directly at them.
The whole lighting system and destruction and sound is full of little tricks to make it work on a gameplay level even if not completely realistic.
For me this is just taking pieces out of a sandbox because they weren't perfect and people who didn't knew or didn't like to fiddle with them complained.
Have you guys noticed how dynamics lights have been taken out of some maps? I used to use some to spot enemies around the corner or staying behind some to blind people looking directly at them.
Bornstellar
Member
Okay thanks. It only happened half a match and then it evened out. Could have just been something random.
EDIT: Google popped up people having the issue on Favela which is where the problem occured for me. So I think I'll just shut that map off in the options for matchmaking
Phatosaurus
Member
Never had any FPS drops on PS4, and I mean never. It was always 100% solid with exception of the win screen.
Always played with the FPS overlay too.
Probably was my internet then for that particular match. I'll check with a friend who was playing with me. Aside from the first half of that match the game played perfectly for the few days I've been playing.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
new map fall....interrogated someone on the garage stairs of consulate and fell through the map as soon as the interrogation finished...
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/6wl0uq/so_i_managed_to_get_in_the_tts_by_launching_the/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/6wlolf/on_tts_ying_has_breach_charge_now_what_is_the_real/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/6wl62m/new_operators_bios/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/6wn1fz/capitao_is_benjamin_button_confirmed/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/6wd6ft/new_skins_for_blood_orchid/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/6wcka0/dark_sas_uniforms_are_back_boiiiiiiiiiiii/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/6wcanh/supernova_buff/
http://www.gamestar.de/artikel/rainbow-six-siege-ubisoft-ueber-die-zukunft-des-taktik-shooters,3318993.html
https://rainbow6.ubisoft.com/siege/en-GB/game-info/operator/ela.aspx
Maddocks
Member
"We have removed the red filter that make defenders vision uncomfortable when they run outside the building. We think the red warning in the middle of the screen should be clear enough feedback that you are doing something dangerous."
Exactly, the defenders job is to defend the objective, not run outside and play rambo.
I have a feeling this will revert back very very fast once enough people complain about getting killed at spawn again.
OfTheOverflow
Member
This really is an absolutely baffling change. Obviously they're doing it to give defenders more visibility when spawn killing and throwing themselves out windows, why not just own it instead of trying to disguise it as 'silly defender, they know they shouldn't be out here
'If I was Rainbow Six Man, that filter outside would be more aggressive and there wouldn't be any red text.
There would be a lot less text on the screen generally, in fact. I'm a big fan of minimal, natural interfaces. For me they can really help maximize immersion. It's part of why I like Tactical Realism so much.
Tactical Realism is what the real pros play.
There would be a lot less text on the screen generally, in fact. I'm a big fan of minimal, natural interfaces. For me they can really help maximize immersion. It's part of why I like Tactical Realism so much.
Tactical Realism is what the real pros play.
1337
Orochinagis
Member
My friend and I bought the season pass on my friend account, looks like the Season pass is tied to one account on PS4 so no DLC for me, sadness I wanted to use the green hair lady.
grandwizard
Member
That was awesome. Great job dude.
They're trying to cater to the pro players and make it more casual friendly at the same time. In other words, they're ruining shit that wasn't broke.
If I was in charge, that filter outside would have additional warning-signs plastered all over the screen so you can't see shit when you're outside as a defender.
+all standard hud elements would disappear outside.
Nice.
terencecah
Member
they could just make outside defender screens normal after minute into the round
Rickenslacker
Banned
I appreciate some of the changes. Looking outside and not having it be blinding and looking inside into something that isn't a black hole will be nice. The smoke might look worse but it being server-side and consistent is a major improvement over client-side inconsistent visuals.
I'm down for (the first part of) that too. (Removing all standard elements seems like overkill.)
Part of me is even down for what they did—removing the filter. While I disdain many of the changes they've made to accommodate competitors and maximize profits... I also appreciate a lot of them for their QoL improvements.
Removing the filter I don't see as that big of a game-changer, actually. The lighting changes I see as more significant, but still not radical. I see both of these revisions as part of the greater shift in direction Siege has made. A direction I'm continually conflicted about and and confused by. I think Ubisoft is too; I think the game's direction has lacked cohesion on several levels for a while, and its cobbled, inconsistent, sometimes bugged—broken cosmetic items (that I love to complain about) are the perfect visual representation of that.
One thing I know I would like to see de-emphasized is gunplay.
Gunplay is important—one of the most important parts of the game.
But it's also the least fucking interesting, least unique part of the game.
It's important because it's a shooter and good shooting gratifies us on a carnal level and serves to elevate the skill gap, but it is not why this game is important. The destruction and the strategy—the creativity it allows is why this game is important, why it's unique, and why it's been successful.
In the current meta strategy and gunplay are of roughly (if context-dependent) equal importance. It should at least be about a 55/45 ratio in favor of strategy, whereas sometimes now in some matches it feels like it's 30/70 in favor of gunplay (if this could actually be quantified). Removing ACOG from all three-speeds on defense serves this goal, I believe. Removing the filter defenders have outside kind of doesn't... again, I feel conflicted. And I sense confliction in the authors as well.
I'm surprised that Ubi thinks the piss filter for defenders going out was a "warning" when they say that an onscreen warning is enough. When the real purpose for its existence is to make it so that defenders can't run outside and shoot as easily, they already have the advantage compared to attackers due to a siege situation and this is one disadvantage they have apart from their guns, but now they are removing that.
Yuck at that smoke texture.
It doesn't even look like smoke anymore because it's fucking opaque, also now I can't tell difference between Capitao smoke, smoke grenades and Smoke's toxic grenades. Instantaneous smoke is fucking ridiculous, it means the attackers don't have to wait before they rush in...especially now that it's completely opaque. It also doesn't give the defenders time to react to a smoke grenade. ALL they should've done is have the same smoke as before but run it server side + reduce the transparency a bit rather than making it completely opaque...it's still smoke, not cotton.
GG Ubi.
Yuck at that smoke texture.
It doesn't even look like smoke anymore because it's fucking opaque, also now I can't tell difference between Capitao smoke, smoke grenades and Smoke's toxic grenades. Instantaneous smoke is fucking ridiculous, it means the attackers don't have to wait before they rush in...especially now that it's completely opaque. It also doesn't give the defenders time to react to a smoke grenade. ALL they should've done is have the same smoke as before but run it server side + reduce the transparency a bit rather than making it completely opaque...it's still smoke, not cotton.
GG Ubi.
Exactly. I know many people in this thread disagree with people getting annoyed by certain tactics as "it's all part of the game" but Ubi might as well just make the game a 5v5 Deathmatch with no objective if they keep heading in this direction.
Pegasus Actual
Gold Member
I don't have too many hours on Jackal yet, so my opinion is subject to change but I would say it's usually beneficial to scan. It makes people nervous. Only reason not to scan is if you have red footsteps in which case it's often best to just push. Scanning just gives them that extra second to turn on you. But even then it's situational. Yellow seems to be such a long timeframe that they could have run just about anywhere so I don't see a downside to scanning.
Yea it makes them nervous and move about, but there's a 50-50 chance that when they start moving they will end up seeing you before you see them as it depends on where they are and where they move.
Primethius
Banned
Lol, what the hell is that smoke effect? Walked out of MS Paint.
Pegasus Actual
Gold Member
Sure, but your intel of pings, especially once they're every 5 seconds instead of 10 come the patch is better than their intel of "well he's by some of my footsteps". If they back up you can quickly and safely secure chunks of the map. And if they happen to have unidentified operators it can be helpful. Even though Caveira is uniquely suited to ducking all your pings, if you do happen to ID her after your team fails to drone her, it's a big win in my book. And, stupid as it may sound, sometimes there's a big mass of footsteps, and sometimes it's just one operator, sometimes it's multiple. But scanning it makes it so that you can't scan the same operator again. But you can switch, so if you can't scan the footstep tangle a second time, congrats, it's untangled and they just all belong to somebody that was running around way too much.
It seems to me that following footsteps without scanning them will lead to a lot of ADS walking to keep sound down without a lot of payoff. I could be wrong. Maybe you will sneak up on people more than I would expect. As I said, I generally don't do it unless I realize their footsteps lead them to a dead end. Whether to scan footsteps and whether to push someone you have pinged is a tough judgment call that is hard to talk about generically. I probably do scan a bit too much and could benefit from quietly tracking down footsteps on occasion. It really depends on what map, where on the map, and what other kind of intel you have.
Also if you got a buddy on the far side, the scan and pincer move is always a favorite. You pre-fire/distraction fire towards the ping while the backside slow walks for the easy flank. Pushing into lobby through loan office and getting a scan by vault stairs in Bank is a good one for that as people push into the skylight stairs area. It's pretty common to snag a ping in either open area or tellers. Just in general that's one of my favorite entries with Jackal. You can quickly tell if someone is doing the cheesy loan office corner camp. You can take out the lobby camera from outside, which is a must kill camera which a Twitch drone can't get. It's insane how often people leave it up, it tells you so damn much. Even if you're not planning any push through lobby so long as that camera is up the defenders can pretty much ignore that whole area and just peek the camera every once in a while.
Anyway, I went off on a tangent there. But once in lobby if you don't have any footsteps you can quickly and fairly safely check the office hall for footsteps, you can run up the lobby stairs and clear upstairs for footsteps.
I'm still really liking Jackal, his AR is top tier, with a super fast reload. He's a very dynamic operator that demands tons of map knowledge to effectively play. He's perfectly viable when your team doesn't have ESL droning and call out skills. Which is basically 100% of the time in ranked even if you're running a full team, at least in my experience.
It seems to me that following footsteps without scanning them will lead to a lot of ADS walking to keep sound down without a lot of payoff. I could be wrong. Maybe you will sneak up on people more than I would expect. As I said, I generally don't do it unless I realize their footsteps lead them to a dead end. Whether to scan footsteps and whether to push someone you have pinged is a tough judgment call that is hard to talk about generically. I probably do scan a bit too much and could benefit from quietly tracking down footsteps on occasion. It really depends on what map, where on the map, and what other kind of intel you have.
Also if you got a buddy on the far side, the scan and pincer move is always a favorite. You pre-fire/distraction fire towards the ping while the backside slow walks for the easy flank. Pushing into lobby through loan office and getting a scan by vault stairs in Bank is a good one for that as people push into the skylight stairs area. It's pretty common to snag a ping in either open area or tellers. Just in general that's one of my favorite entries with Jackal. You can quickly tell if someone is doing the cheesy loan office corner camp. You can take out the lobby camera from outside, which is a must kill camera which a Twitch drone can't get. It's insane how often people leave it up, it tells you so damn much. Even if you're not planning any push through lobby so long as that camera is up the defenders can pretty much ignore that whole area and just peek the camera every once in a while.
Anyway, I went off on a tangent there. But once in lobby if you don't have any footsteps you can quickly and fairly safely check the office hall for footsteps, you can run up the lobby stairs and clear upstairs for footsteps.
I'm still really liking Jackal, his AR is top tier, with a super fast reload. He's a very dynamic operator that demands tons of map knowledge to effectively play. He's perfectly viable when your team doesn't have ESL droning and call out skills. Which is basically 100% of the time in ranked even if you're running a full team, at least in my experience.
Primethius
Banned
Post 18567 has the picture for me.
Could someone filter that link out? I'm on my phone and I've already reached my datacap + pics are turned off on gaf for me. I don't want to spend 10 minutes opening every single link, thanks.
Pegasus Actual
Gold Member
As for general patch thoughts...
So for the annoying jump out filter, I'm glad it's gone. In fact just put the "you're detected" shit into the corner of the screen and out of your way. Like hey, you're giving up wallhacks at that point anyway. Randomly obscuring your vision is a pointless penalty.
As for the lighting, I'm a bit more torn. There's big problems with the current version, part of what makes ACOGs extra viable is that they don't suffer from the lighting model as much. The lower FOV for whatever reason balances the color out and lets you see things. My gut tells me that the inside/outside dynamic is fine as is. But there are some lighting situations right now when both players are inside the building that are just kind of bullshit. Of course it's extra bad on Xbox because of the soft ass resolution and the occasionally tanked frame rate. Dying to someone who I can't even see even though I'm anticipating and looking in the correct spot is incredibly frustrating.
I'm still upset about the map pool thing. The stupidest thing in all this is that it's based purely on how the pros feel about bomb mode. It seems like secure area is the most popular mode anyway, and frankly it's a lot less demanding of a game mode on map design. The new map not being in ranked means that normal players won't really develop strategies for it. There's only so much you can do in casual when you don't get to pick your site or your spawn. This kills the mode for players who don'at have delusions of ESL grandeur but do want evenly skill-matched games, and want to try to constantly learn and improve in all facets of the game. We're not all of a sudden going to sign up for fucking GameBattles and scrim the map out in customs to develop leet strats. For players like me, even ignoring the maps being removed, this will mean AT LEAST 9 months of ZERO new maps added to the game effectively.
I did skim the list of bug fixes. Did they actually list out 1300? It didn't seem like quite that much. Anyway, I couldn't help but notice that they listed plenty of things that were done in previous patches. But i didn't see jack shit about the game crashing on operator select, and blue/flashing blue screens. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. If that shit still happens after Operation Health is complete and in the rearview....
Oh, and finally, I think the ranked MMR system needs some more tweaks. The uncertainty value gets way too low if you play a lot. There should be a floor it doesn't sink below. Right now for an 'even-ish' match I get +/- 10 points or so. Plat Star to Diamond is a 400 point climb. You'd need a 40 game win streak to make that. It's idiotic. It punishes you for playing a lot. In say Rocket League, it has the idea of uncertainty as well. You clearly would move up and down faster early in the season. But it never gets to the absurd point. If you go on a 2-3 win streak, you're going to jump up one rung in your division, and jump a full division or so for going +10 or so on your win/loss. In games that last under 10 minutes. In Rocket League I literally have 10x the rank mobility as a conservative estimate. In a game that's every bit as competitive as Siege.
And the MMR system is just patently unfair in the values you get. For an all plat sort of game win I'll the aforementioned +10. For losing to a team with like 3 diamonds when we're all plat, I'll commonly lose 15. We beat a team with multiple diamonds including a guy in the top 5 global leaderboard and I still only got like +15 out of the deal. And they were collectively thousands of MMR points higher than us. I'm sure they took a big hit for it though.
And the amount of times it will put me into a rematch against some ROFLstomp crew of diamonds and their supporting smurf cast to take a double hit of inflated rank points loss is insane. They got rid of the rematch button. So I guess that means they think rematches aren't that good of an idea, right? So don't do rematches. Just give me a new set of opponents every time. And there absolutely needs to be a "don't queue me with these teammates again" button. There have been teamkill feuds that have lasted across three ranked matches just because there's no way to avoid the players that you just don't get along with. Give us the tools to make matchmaking with randoms tolerable!
So for the annoying jump out filter, I'm glad it's gone. In fact just put the "you're detected" shit into the corner of the screen and out of your way. Like hey, you're giving up wallhacks at that point anyway. Randomly obscuring your vision is a pointless penalty.
As for the lighting, I'm a bit more torn. There's big problems with the current version, part of what makes ACOGs extra viable is that they don't suffer from the lighting model as much. The lower FOV for whatever reason balances the color out and lets you see things. My gut tells me that the inside/outside dynamic is fine as is. But there are some lighting situations right now when both players are inside the building that are just kind of bullshit. Of course it's extra bad on Xbox because of the soft ass resolution and the occasionally tanked frame rate. Dying to someone who I can't even see even though I'm anticipating and looking in the correct spot is incredibly frustrating.
I'm still upset about the map pool thing. The stupidest thing in all this is that it's based purely on how the pros feel about bomb mode. It seems like secure area is the most popular mode anyway, and frankly it's a lot less demanding of a game mode on map design. The new map not being in ranked means that normal players won't really develop strategies for it. There's only so much you can do in casual when you don't get to pick your site or your spawn. This kills the mode for players who don'at have delusions of ESL grandeur but do want evenly skill-matched games, and want to try to constantly learn and improve in all facets of the game. We're not all of a sudden going to sign up for fucking GameBattles and scrim the map out in customs to develop leet strats. For players like me, even ignoring the maps being removed, this will mean AT LEAST 9 months of ZERO new maps added to the game effectively.
I did skim the list of bug fixes. Did they actually list out 1300? It didn't seem like quite that much. Anyway, I couldn't help but notice that they listed plenty of things that were done in previous patches. But i didn't see jack shit about the game crashing on operator select, and blue/flashing blue screens. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. If that shit still happens after Operation Health is complete and in the rearview....
Oh, and finally, I think the ranked MMR system needs some more tweaks. The uncertainty value gets way too low if you play a lot. There should be a floor it doesn't sink below. Right now for an 'even-ish' match I get +/- 10 points or so. Plat Star to Diamond is a 400 point climb. You'd need a 40 game win streak to make that. It's idiotic. It punishes you for playing a lot. In say Rocket League, it has the idea of uncertainty as well. You clearly would move up and down faster early in the season. But it never gets to the absurd point. If you go on a 2-3 win streak, you're going to jump up one rung in your division, and jump a full division or so for going +10 or so on your win/loss. In games that last under 10 minutes. In Rocket League I literally have 10x the rank mobility as a conservative estimate. In a game that's every bit as competitive as Siege.
And the MMR system is just patently unfair in the values you get. For an all plat sort of game win I'll the aforementioned +10. For losing to a team with like 3 diamonds when we're all plat, I'll commonly lose 15. We beat a team with multiple diamonds including a guy in the top 5 global leaderboard and I still only got like +15 out of the deal. And they were collectively thousands of MMR points higher than us. I'm sure they took a big hit for it though.
And the amount of times it will put me into a rematch against some ROFLstomp crew of diamonds and their supporting smurf cast to take a double hit of inflated rank points loss is insane. They got rid of the rematch button. So I guess that means they think rematches aren't that good of an idea, right? So don't do rematches. Just give me a new set of opponents every time. And there absolutely needs to be a "don't queue me with these teammates again" button. There have been teamkill feuds that have lasted across three ranked matches just because there's no way to avoid the players that you just don't get along with. Give us the tools to make matchmaking with randoms tolerable!
Primethius
Banned
You're looking at it from the perspective of what Jackal does with his pings. What I'm talking about is to use he footsteps as pretty much a replacement for drones, this way eventhough you are moving slowly while ADS you don't spend precious time droning or alerting enemies.
Don't get me wrong pinging has its advantages (even more now with the changes), especially when you already know if an enemy is in the room as after pinging you can either flush the enemy out the way you suggested or wall bang the enemy. But when you don't know where the enemy is and want to stalk them without alerting them then not pinging has its merits too.
All I'm saying is that pinging isn't the only way to use his visor, and he's one of the very few operators in the game whose utility still retains some of the original purpose even after exhausting all of the pings.
And yea Jackal not being viable in ESL doesn't mean he's "low tier". It just means ESL players don't have a need for his utility due to heir playstyle. And no one plays like ESL players outside of ESL so his utility automatically becomes considerably better. And both his gun are still amazing even after the nerf.
Looks a lot like CS smoke. Honestly, it's server side and as such should be consistent for each person, so that's what's most important.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
wow that looks atrocious
It could still be server side and not look like 3 opaque billboard textures intersected together.
Anyways how do I get into the TTS? I thought it'd be like Overwatch where anyone can boot up TTS and start playing but seems like you gotta download a new client separately everytime.
Anyways how do I get into the TTS? I thought it'd be like Overwatch where anyone can boot up TTS and start playing but seems like you gotta download a new client separately everytime.
It is set up as a different game on uplay (should be on your "Games" screen and you have to download it separately from the main client. I think that is the same as the Blizzard PTR clients work.
I see TTS in my library but can't download it as I don't get an option to.