"Reaction to Marathon reveal made Bungie leadership nervous. NDA was lifted to shift narrative. "- Paul Tassi

Men_in_Boxes

Men_in_Boxes

Banned
Paul Tassi's past reporting on Marathon has seemingly proven correct. Here's the latest...

"The Marathon vibes have been shifting a bit more toward the positive with A) Bungie spooling up some new cool marketing and bits and pieces of content now that Closed Alpha codes are going out and B) opening that Closed Alpha up not to be actually open, but at least no longer NDA.

What that means is that starting on Wednesday, April 23 and ending May 4, this will be the first, expansive look at the game past gameplay trailers and a handful of streamer/YouTuber footage. Thousands and thousands of players will be able to play, stream, record and discuss impressions as Bungie is now asking outright for feedback, while cautioning the game is not finalized with release still five months away. Plus as a live game, these conversations will always be ongoing.

Why did this happen? Per my sources, a few things were going on here:
  • The Closed Alpha exists truly as a technical test ahead of the launch. They didn't want it open now to everyone because they need to limit the number of players so things don't totally break. They need at least a somewhat limited test like this (certainly not uncommon in the industry).
  • Bungie did the NDA assuming things would leak given the scope of the test, but as long as it would be somewhat limited it would be "good enough." (They weren't gonna take anyone to court over it).
  • After the reaction to the gameplay reveal, leadership was nervous but they tried to reassure teams. Ultimately, they figured it would shift the narrative if the NDA was lifted (I'm also seeing a ton of codes go out, plus friend codes, so I wonder how many Alpha "denials" are even going to happen). It does in fact seem to have helped.
  • There will be an Open Beta likely in August, much closer to launch, where you will then be able to pre-order its various editions ahead of September 23 launch.
  • At this time, as everyone assumes, Marathon costs $40 in the vein of Helldivers 2 (and yes, Concord). You simply cannot pull the trigger this late on suddenly making a game free-to-play even if it's a common complaint. Not that it's the plan anyway at this point.
So, that's where we are, or as near as I can tell. The biggest question mark here is whether the Alpha can be a sea change moment with people actually getting to play the game themselves, and spread the word it's actually good. Of course if it's not impressive enough, that may begin a spiral. This would have happened anyway during the Open Beta, but doing it this way means at least there might be some time to course correct some commonly disliked elements, whatever those may be. And Bungie is saying they want to do that outright, as much as is possible.

It's a pretty crunched timetable. One thing I am still not sure about is what's going on with the "endgame" of Marathon which includes this supposedly much different fourth map that at least right now, does not appear to be launching with the game. I'm wondering if they will manage to get it out, but I don't know if that will happen or if it's even possible on this timetable, as it's currently unfinished. For now, we'll see how things go on Wednesday."

www.forbes.com

New ‘Marathon’ Info About The Closed Alpha, NDAs And Open Beta

There's new information about Marathon's no longer-NDAed Closed Alpha, and it's upcoming Open Beta which is still a ways off.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
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I would be nervous trying to launch any new gaas. A lot of people are already happy with what they're playing and may not be looking for a new game
 
ReBurn said:
I would be nervous trying to launch any new gaas. A lot of people are already happy with what they're playing and may not be looking for a new game
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The pattern of new GAAS releases is clear...

Giant launch spikes with quick player drop off. This shows the market wants new GAAS, but won't stick with inferior experiences.
 
A lot of this would have been a moot point if they just did a proper playthrough of a round. Instead we got a lot of people talking about random specific things and some bullshot trailers that seemingly didn't communicate how the game really goes on run. Not until that video that came out a couple days later with the whole round being played did this make more sense. The reveal did a poor job of explaining what the game was like, IMO.

Bungie - trailers - A+
Bungie - communication - F
 
Nobody is gonna pay for a f2p experience with 3 maps. This feels like it could've been an extra mode in Halo, you know, on top of the campaign and the classic multiplayer. Thinking you can sell it by itself for a hefty sum is ridiculous as they will find out come September. BF6 will be launching this fall too, Marathon is pretty much cooked.
 
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Only five months away from release, at most only number balance changes and network tests can be made in this short time. Everything core that had to be finalised is finalised.

Still Marathon to become a pillar of gaming bungie hoped, they're in for a looong haul. Might even be Year-2 where it actually shines.
 
Game wont be as big of a bomb as concord was, nothing will, but if its only similary bad as suicide squad, it will still be complete and utter diseaster( feb 2024 launch, servers closed jan 2025) :messenger_sunglasses:
over 13k ccu peak on steam btw
Here suicide squad gameplay trailer, 3,7m views 102k likes and under 2k dislikes, back then ppl though game will be actually decent still :P


For comparision lets look at succesfull modern multiplayer game, from sony too, helldivers2, it even launched jan 2024 so almost same time as suicide squad, and yet we can see those ccu numbers are very different:
458k peak at launch, 15 months later almost 40k last 24h peak ccu still :)

Now question is- will those marathon characters be more likeable from suicide squad characters? Hard to say, same with gameplay, graphical settings etc, i can tell that finally heads at bungie got actual real feedback from players, not serious yes-men they only asked till now :)

Now lets see that gameplay trailer from marathon, numbers from the very source:
Lets be super generous and lets add numbers from both:
gameplay reveal trailer:

883k views, 21k likes/32k dislikes

and gameplay overview trailer:

815k views 23k likes/28k dislikes

steve-harvey-im-just-saying.gif
 
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Men_in_Boxes said:
The pattern of new GAAS releases is clear...

Giant launch spikes with quick player drop off. This shows the market wants new GAAS, but won't stick with inferior experiences.
Click to expand...
I don't know that it shows the market wants them. I think it at least shows the market is willing to try them and then go back to what they love when they're bored.
 
Still wondering what the hell this game has to do with Marathon as a franchise. Does it even feature the titular spaceship and the likes of Darandal, the Pfhor and Tycho?
 
ReBurn said:
I don't know that it shows the market wants them. I think it at least shows the market is willing to try them and then go back to what they love when they're bored.
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Sort of semantics. We're essentially saying the same thing.

100% of the GAAS playing population want superior GAAS games. People like to act like that isn't the case.
 
Radical_3d said:
Maybe grown men should understand better the concept of "value proposition", "production values" and "added value" instead of being self righteous.
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Grown men also realize that 1 week after the reveal, it's still too early to even make well-informed statements about those three aspects.
 
Men_in_Boxes said:
The pattern of new GAAS releases is clear...

Giant launch spikes with quick player drop off. This shows the market wants new GAAS, but won't stick with inferior experiences.
Click to expand...
I can vibe with this. It would be wonderful if something could come out and capture that 2004-2006 WoW vibe. I'm not sure if it will ever happen, but it would be great. My opinion on GaaS changed when I realized that MMOs are GaaS.

That being said, it is highly unlikely I will ever play a GaaS again
 
Pop said:
Then why not just make it an open alpha
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Bungie's goal with this Closed Alpha isn't to blow the doors open and go full promo mode.

They need to limit how many people are in so they can properly test the servers and systems without everything breaking. That's standard practice for big multiplayer games

They did lift the NDA, though, which is a big deal. That means people can stream, record, and talk about it openly. It's not fully open, but it's visible, which helps Bungie shift the conversation after the mixed reaction to the gameplay reveal

Also, making it open this early would probably cause more harm than good if the game still has rough edges. This way, they can get a ton of feedback, tweak things, and still have a big open beta in August before launch in September. Smart move, honestly
 
I signed up for the alpha, as the resident Destiny lover I hope it's good
 
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Killjoy-NL said:
Grown men also realize that 1 week after the reveal, it's still too early to even make well-informed statements about those three aspects.
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We have what Bungie had decided to show us and tell us. If you are moronic enough to shout out to the market: 3 maps, 4 heroes and premium price and that value proposition isn't enough compared to your competitors is not the market's fault. It is your fault and a sign that yet again someone has his head up his ass. If they have more context to this proposition it'd have been wise to advertise it before the snowball of negativity reaches critical mass. But hey! Sony wouldn't fumble a GaaS, right?

fairgames-pc-juego-cover.jpg
 
Bungie's reputation is in the shitter and Sony hardly inspires confidence given it treats its live service games like a borderline girl treats her dates. Add in a shockingly bland gameplay reveal in a genre already saturated with extremely competitive and expensively maintained live service games, and you have all the ingredients you need for mass layoffs and CEOs getting parachute bonus checks as they resign.

Sony should never have abandoned its strength as that odd and experimental developer that treated first party more as means to push innovation rather than huge profits. This in turn has made Playstation lose its unique identity.
 
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SJRB said:
The fact that they did not see this coming is a red flag.
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100% Their communication after the gameplay reveal and stuff was bad and the whole reveal felt like a jaguar commercial. The fact that they did not see the backlash just means that there has been too many people with blue hair at a helm. It is a shame though as the original trailer was pretty interesting.

PeteBull said:
Game wont be as big of a bomb as concord was, nothing will, but if its only similary bad as suicide squad, it will still be complete and utter diseaster( feb 2024 launch, servers closed jan 2025)
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I think its CCU might be decent due to huge inertia coming from Destiny players. They might switch to Marathon.

Boss Mog said:
Nobody is gonna pay for a f2p experience with 3 maps. This feels like it could've been an extra mode in Halo, you know, on top of the campaign and the classic multiplayer. Thinking you can sell it by itself for a hefty sum is ridiculous as they will find out come September. BF6 will be launching this fall too, Marathon is pretty much cooked.
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It depends. Hunt Showdown has 4 maps still I think.
 
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Radical_3d said:
We have what Bungie had decided to show us and tell us. If you are moronic enough to shout out to the market: 3 maps, 4 heroes and premium price and that value proposition isn't enough compared to your competitors is not the market's fault. It is your fault and a sign that yet again someone has his head up his ass. If they have more context to this proposition it'd have been wise to advertise it before the snowball of negativity reaches critical mass. But hey! Sony wouldn't fumble a GaaS, right?

fairgames-pc-juego-cover.jpg
Click to expand...
Pretty sure many have already pointed out that a game like Hunt Showdown, another extraction shooter, has 4 maps after 6 years.
How is 3 maps at launch, with a 4th coming shortly after, a bad thing?

4 heroes are in the alpha, there will be 6 at launch.

Premium price was taken out of context, expected price is $40 (stated by Tassi as well).

That's what I mean. You can't even get some basic info right.

Edit:

For the record, I've been repeatedly saying that Bungie management are incompetent clowns, so I'm definitely not going to act like they're an amazing flawless developer.

Imo, even the original Halo trilogy was overrated and they completely mishandled the Destiny franchise.
 
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It'll be interesting to see how it goes. Either way it's not a game I'm interested in playing.
 
Killjoy-NL said:
Pretty sure many have already pointed out that a game like Hunt Showdown, another extraction shooter, has 4 maps after 6 years.
How is 3 maps at launch, with a 4th coming shortly after, a bad thing?
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Two kinds of forum posters...

People who want to share their alternative perspective in order to reach a better understanding of a given topic. (Two eyes working together gives us depth of field)

People who want to share their perspective because they want to be right. (One eye trying to blind the other eye)

The second group will drown you. Triage them Killjoy-NL Killjoy-NL , triage them.
 
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ChuckeRearmed said:
100% Their communication after the gameplay reveal and stuff was bad and the whole reveal felt like a jaguar commercial. The fact that they did not see the backlash just means that there has been too many people with blue hair at a helm. It is a shame though as the original trailer was pretty interesting.


I think its CCU might be decent due to huge inertia coming from Destiny players. They might switch to Marathon.
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Time will tell, destiny2 had crazy ccu alltime peak of 316k, currently all those years later still close to 30k last 24h ccu peak so yup, if current/former destiny2 players will be interested enough and gonna switch, marathon will be huge success for sure, question is, will they tho? =D

Alternative is- they keep playing destiny2 doing their usual shit:
dXx3w5j.jpeg
 
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Killjoy-NL said:
Pretty sure many have already pointed out that a game like Hunt Showdown, another extraction shooter, has 4 maps after 6 years.
How is 3 maps at launch, with a 4th coming shortly after, a bad thing?

4 heroes are in the alpha, there will be 6 at launch.

Premium price was taken out of context, expected price is $40 (stated by Tassi as well).

That's what I mean. You can't even get some basic info right.

Edit:

For the record, I've been repeatedly saying that Bungie management are incompetent clowns, so I'm definitely not going to act like they're an amazing game.

Imo, even the original Halo trilogy was overrated and they completely mishandled the Destiny franchise.
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Consider me fact checked! Still people aren't liking 4 maps and 6 heroes. And 40$ is premium if you are going to compete agisinst the F2P market. That's not being childish, that's asking value for your money. I don't even care about the game even if it were free because no campaign no buy. And if it were Halo 3 good I wouldn't mind paying 130€ for it. Now, calling out the market for wanting value in this economy is childish.
 
RoboFu said:
No one wants this game. Everyone is okay just playing Fortnite and COD. The kids just want Roblox.
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Well there was similar sentiment with OW2, but people started to play Marvel Rivals just fine. I think there is a place for new games - especially with a stale market.

PeteBull said:
Alternative is- they keep playing destiny2 doing their usual shit:
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Sooner or later D2 will end its run. It is not WoW after all.
 
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The game will be solid and will earn moderate success.

We aren't looking at another Concord here, despite so many seeming to hope we are for some reason.
 
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Radical_3d said:
Consider me fact checked! Still people aren't liking 4 maps and 6 heroes. And 40$ is premium if you are going to compete agisinst the F2P market. That's not being childish, that's asking value for your money. I don't even care about the game even if it were free because no campaign no buy. And if it were Halo 3 good I wouldn't mind paying 130€ for it. Now, calling out the market for wanting value in this economy is childish.
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Which f2p market is that?

On consoles there's Hunt Showdown, which costs €30 (or €40?).

Someone argued that BF2042, COD and Sea of Thieves count, but those are also paid.
 
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analog_future said:
The game will be solid and will earn moderate success.

We aren't looking at another Concord here, despite so many seeming to hope we are for some reason.
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Open beta will give us a lot of data to compare, unless game gets delayed open beta has to happen in summer sometime so 3-4 months away at max :)
 
Killjoy-NL said:
Which f2p market is that?

On consoles there's Hunt Showdown, which costs €30 (or €40?).

Someone argued that BF2042, COD and Sea of Thieves count, but those are also paid.
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The shooter F2P market. They have a couple of hits, but you've probably never heard about them…
 
Radical_3d said:
The shooter F2P market. They have a couple of hits, but you've probably never heard about them…
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BF2042, COD, The Division, Hunt Showdown, soon Doom TDA, are all paid shooters.
So that's a bad argument.

This argument worked for Concord, as all other hero shooters are f2p (OW, Valorant, Marvel Rivals, Paladins), but that's a completely different genre.
 
Killjoy-NL said:
BF2042, COD, The Division, Hunt Showdown, soon Doom TDA, are all paid shooters.
So that's a bad argument.

This argument worked for Concord, as all other hero shooters are f2p (OW, Valorant, Marvel Rivals, Paladins), but that's a completely different genre.
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CoD has an extraction mode as part of its free 2 play version. the most popular mode, Battle Royale, is also free.
 
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kevboard said:
CoD has an extraction mode as part of its free 2 play version. the most popular mode, Battle Royale, is also free.
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Okay, so 1 half-assed mode is free. Doesn't really change much, but I stand corrected on DMZ.

BR is a completely different genre.
 
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This will definitely get delayed, and iy wouldn't surprise me if Fortnite in the meantime got their own take on an extraction shooter developed
 
Even if the gunplay moment to moment has that unmistakably crispy Bungie feel, I just can't get past the Roblox graphics. It's on them, it's their problem - they assumed the stylistic choices would have broad appeal. They're learning the hard way that they were catastrophically wide of the mark.

I just wanted a frickin' amazing next gen Bungie shooter, that didn't chase a trend... and with optional multiplayer.
 
I don't see any potential cause to get nervous. The game will be on Xbox too, which means that success is pretty much guaranteed.
 
They should be nervous. This can 100% be a bomba, or it can have moderate success, I really don't know which way it will go, but I'm leaning closer to failure.
 
ReBurn said:
I would be nervous trying to launch any new gaas. A lot of people are already happy with what they're playing and may not be looking for a new game
Click to expand...
They had an easy win but didn't want to commit, just make Destiny 3, brand alone would help a lot, but whatever, it's Sony's money being wasted after all :pie_roffles:
 
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