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[alabtrosMyster]

What about the ones paraded around here for months about RDNA3 and infinity scrubbers?

Those were just as empty

Yup, trying to stamp an RDNA version# is useless (whatever your console of choice is).

Infinity scrubbers? My guess is that people were trying to figure why the PS5 is fully delivering... While Ms can't deliver what their marketing led them to believe, so we have people gasping at straws with dx12u/tools/12tf/rdna2, etc.

Neogaf will go from loving to hating this guy after this vid.

Few love him.

The only thing i see around here is that people are jumping from 12TF narrative, then FULL RDNA2, Tools, whats next?

Windows 11 with DX 13 is gonna fix it.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Your obsession for the sony fans reaction starts to be a little worrying

 

[AnotherOne]

Yap, the one and the same. Oh, and you forgot stacked memory.

Ah okay well in that case fuck this guy.

 

[JackMcGunns]

I think it's important to understand that tools will mature for both the systems.

It's also important to understand that Sony is currently ahead and punching closer to its weight class. So what do you think is going to happen when both reach their pinnacle and are punching right at their given weight classes?

 

[JackMcGunns]

Neogaf will go from loving to hating this guy after this vid.

So freaking true. Not too long ago I saw the usuals praising the channel. I bet that's quickly and suddenly going to change now.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Trying to convince myself? I didnt make the video, did i? Who is really trying to convince themselves in a thread when they post no reasonin

How long will it take for you, or anyone in your situation to say: OK they tried long enough now, what we have now is pretty much what we will get?

We need some time frame for the tools excuse to expire, because the last time that was used, the PS4 gained in its advantages over the generation, as well as apparently starting off with 'better tools'.

So while it may seem somewhat reasonable to assume that the series X would benefit from better tools over time, nothing tells us about how much they stand to benefit from tools maturity compared to the competition.

Also, we have tweets from devs going in both directions in regards to tools maturity.

Obviously, if let's say a year from now the series X starts to pull ahead in therms of performance compared to the ps5 I'll reconsider. But, in the meantime, you should not act like it was a given, especially not berate those who disagree with your outlandish claims.

 

[Bittermich]

Ah because one sides tools are stuck and only the other can progress?

hasn't PS5s final SDK already been shipped in 2019?

 

[Topher]

Neogaf will go from loving to hating this guy after this vid.

Any different than those going from hate to love? Why reference "neogaf" as if there is only one mindset?

hasn't PS5s final SDK already been shipped in 2019?

The final hardware, perhaps. That isn't the same as the "tools". I doubt those are ever "final".

 

[alabtrosMyster]

To be fair he got the girl, but I think 99% of those using the meme are too young to know.

 

[Negotiator101]

So the new tools have arrived?Are these the final ones? Or should we expect newer tools after the next multiplatform game (or the next Halo Infinite) underperforms on XsX?

Taking this as a joke but this has been confirmed numerous times. Xbox tools are behind PS5, things will continue to get better as the PS5 will. Your post is quite silly, XSX is a more powerful machine than the PS5 and that will show even if its later than expected.

 

[Panajev2001a]

So freaking true. Not too long ago I saw the usuals praising the channel. I bet that's quickly and suddenly going to change now.

The best bit is all this bait and essentially nobody biting. I read quite a lot of this "oh I bet this is happening now... any minute now". Console warrior bait thread and not even the façade of wanting to seriously discuss it... .

 

[MonarchJT]

FTFY

what Sweeney said was fake btw

 

[Snake29]

Taking this as a joke but this has been confirmed numerous times. Xbox tools are behind PS5, things will continue to get better as the PS5 will. Your post is quite silly, XSX is a more powerful machine than the PS5 and that will show even if its later than expected.

Well, we still don't know how much "more" powerful. It looks like not all parts are more powerful and that can bottleneck the console.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

It's also important to understand that Sony is currently ahead and punching closer to its weight class. So what do you think is going to happen when both reach their pinnacle and are punching right at their given weight classes?

Or maybe some people only reading half the specs sheet and jumping to conclusions?

 

[JackMcGunns]

Or maybe some people only reading half the specs sheet and jumping to conclusions?

Correct, like the extra logic in XSX GPU, it's no wonder Sony kept its GPU details so secret, but it was only time until someone x-rayed it and uncovered the truth.

 

[Imtjnotu]

hasn't PS5s final SDK already been shipped in 2019?

Final sdk

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Correct, like the extra logic in XSX GPU, it's no wonder Sony kept its GPU details so secret, but it was only time until someone x-rayed it and uncovered the truth.

See, the big 'scandal' talk, that's part of the problem, and you still only look at half the specs sheet... When MS delivers to whatever your expectations are come back, until then these are unproven claims and should be treated as such.

Get off your high horses, you were promised a day zero win, not a bunch of excuses.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Well, we still don't know how much "more" powerful. It looks like not all parts are more powerful and that can bottleneck the console.

They only do talking, Sony has already FLEXED and no other HW has shown something as impressive. This is mesh shading in action on PS5, but a lot superior thanks to the total independency of the decompressor and the superior SSD to any in the market until PCIe 5.0:





They can only "dream" of reach this level, or buy a PS5.

 

[phil_t98]

They only do talking, Sony has already FLEXED and no other HW has shown something as impressive. This is mesh shading in action on PS5, but a lot superior thanks to the total independency of the decompressor and the superior SSD to any in the market until PCIe 5.0:





They can only "dream" of reach this level, or buy a PS5.

1440p and 30fps?

 

[kimcorecoba]

It'a still a nightmare compared to what DX11 was.

The only thing i see around here is that people are jumping from 12TF narrative, then FULL RDNA2, Tools, whats next?

Just keep in mind that the XSX is not the perfect console you had in mind. Phil Spencer has been dicking around in your heads too much

And you know this....How? Do you have insider info sir? I don't know anything so far but it seems you do, if you can make statements like that.

 

[sinnergy]

1440p and 30fps?

Didn't you get the memo? IQ doesn't matter this gen.

 

[Kuranghi]

 

[sinnergy]

I have to agree. He has just reported the amd mesh shaders boost in the series x hardware and that's it. We already know how mesh shaders push performance on amd gpu, apply the same scenario on series x isn't it exactly a shocking revelation.

Yup it was a pretty bad video.. nothing new. We have all seen what mesh shaders can do.. only not on consoles ..

 

[Shmunter]

Didn't you get the memo? IQ doesn't matter this gen.

Sure it does, that's why a 1440p gets reconstructed to 4k and looks the biz.

You native 4k guys sure are silly.

 

[Snake29]

And you know this....How? Do you have insider info sir? I don't know anything so far but it seems you do, if you can make statements like that.

Well DX12 has been a nightmare in a lot of games. Still today, not every new game is even using DX12. And yes XSX is not the perfect console MS wanted you to believe, and that's kinda clear right now.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

1440p and 30fps?

Crunching from 16,000,000,000 (16B) to 20,000,000 (20M) within ms, and they'll do it in 60fps as well.

Unreal Engine 5 Lighting Tech Is Targeting 60 FPS On PS5 & Xbox Series X. Epic Games has revealed that it is targeting 60 FPS on PS5 and Xbox Series X for Lumen, the lighting system for the company's Unreal Engine 5 engine.

Unreal Engine 5 Lighting Tech Is Targeting 60 FPS On PS5 & Xbox Series X - PlayStation Universe

Epic Games' Lumen tech is aiming for 60FPS on PS5 and Xbox Series X, the Fortnite developer has revealed.

www.psu.com

So it's a software speed problem here (engine), as how much it takes to crunch such a ridiculous amount of polygons within a 33ms, and now they're going for 16ms. You should crunch billions of polygons to 20-8M per frame along with all the game logic and hit that 16ms mark to achieve solid 60fps, or 33ms for solid fps.

Here's the 20 million polygons per frame upscaled 4K:

You actually can do 6K easily if the engine can keep up, or push it down to 4.2 million to keep it as native 1440p. 4K is only 8.29 million pixels.

 

[Garani]

1440p and 30fps?

For a preview of some test code, it ain't bad, after all Spiderman MM went from 4k+30FPS+RT to 4k+60FPS+RT in a matter of 1 month.

But, no matter what, talk is easy: it is what it is, and at the moment the two boxes are pretty much on par with each other.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Sure it does, that's why a 1440p gets reconstructed to 4k and looks the biz.

You native 4k guys sure are silly.

As if we've seen anything better looking than this:

There is no 8K (4x times 4K resolution) game out there that looks better than this.

 

[Shmunter]

As if we've seen anything better looking than this:

There is no 8K (4x times 4K resolution) game out there that looks better than this.

And you're a photographer with a keen eye for detail. Who's to argue with that.

 

[VFXVeteran]

As if we've seen anything better looking than this:

There is no 8K (4x times 4K resolution) game out there that looks better than this.

Opinion.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

And you're a photographer with a keen eye for detail. Who's to argue with that.

It's all about the final image quality. Movies in 4K are actually mastered in 2K which is 2048 x 1080px, aka slightly higher than 1080p and much lower than 1440p. Does this mean 4K or 8K don't matter? No, but this 1440p final image is superior to any game to date which gimps any native 4K game out there.

 

[Loxus]

Xbox tools are behind and the reason some playstation games have frame rates behind xbox. This will likely change in the future.

So, PlayStation tools gonna stand still at it's current state without any improvements?
PlayStation always sending out performance and stability updates.

Soon you gonna hear, "XBSX big update coming in June with 2.5x performance increase leak".
You can only get so much out of the hardware before you hit the ceiling.
This tools thing is getting beyond ridiculous.

 

[Kataploom]

How long will it take for you, or anyone in your situation to say: OK they tried long enough now, what we have now is pretty much what we will get?

We need some time frame for the tools excuse to expire, because the last time that was used, the PS4 gained in its advantages over the generation, as well as apparently starting off with 'better tools'.

So while it may seem somewhat reasonable to assume that the series X would benefit from better tools over time, nothing tells us about how much they stand to benefit from tools maturity compared to the competition.

Also, we have tweets from devs going in both directions in regards to tools maturity.

Obviously, if let's say a year from now the series X starts to pull ahead in therms of performance compared to the ps5 I'll reconsider. But, in the meantime, you should not act like it was a given, especially not berate those who disagree with your outlandish claims.

The generation hasn't started properly lol There are literally no games made for Xbox Series X/S right now and no, the "tools" is not an excuse, this is literally the reason why a platform can succeed or fail sometimes, take a look at the Switch which new NDK is what's making it receive games on a constant basis.

Also, for some reason PS fans say that "raw power isn't everything efficiency is a factor" but when it comes to Xbox tools "PS5 is more powerful deal with it" LOL Do you all know that the tools are exactly what makes the system more efficient?

Also the PS development environment is already matured against Xbox's, considering MS created a new environment from scratch that hasn't arguably being finished yet so improvements in Xbox GDK vs PS SDK are gonna be much bigger, it's not the same to improve a finished product (mostly optimization or polishing) than actually finishing it (that lacks a lot more, or that is finished but very unpolished or unoptimized, specially if hardware specs were't final at the deploy date).

But we'll still have to wait for actual next gen games to see, those are gonna use all features on all ng consoles, current "ports" aren't even ports at all, they're just BC games running on capped features, they don't count not even with a "patch".

 

[phil_t98]

For a preview of some test code, it ain't bad, after all Spiderman MM went from 4k+30FPS+RT to 4k+60FPS+RT in a matter of 1 month.

But, no matter what, talk is easy: it is what it is, and at the moment the two boxes are pretty much on par with each other.

You must be joking, as awesome as Spider-Man is it ain't at that level

 

[phil_t98]

Crunching from 16,000,000,000 (16B) to 20,000,000 (20M) within ms, and they'll do it in 60fps as well.

Unreal Engine 5 Lighting Tech Is Targeting 60 FPS On PS5 & Xbox Series X. Epic Games has revealed that it is targeting 60 FPS on PS5 and Xbox Series X for Lumen, the lighting system for the company's Unreal Engine 5 engine.

Unreal Engine 5 Lighting Tech Is Targeting 60 FPS On PS5 & Xbox Series X - PlayStation Universe

Epic Games' Lumen tech is aiming for 60FPS on PS5 and Xbox Series X, the Fortnite developer has revealed.

www.psu.com

So it's a software speed problem here (engine), as how much it takes to crunch such a ridiculous amount of polygons within a 33ms, and now they're going for 16ms. You should crunch billions of polygons to 20-8M per frame along with all the game logic and hit that 16ms mark to achieve solid 60fps, or 33ms for solid fps.

Here's the 20 million polygons per frame upscaled 4K:

You actually can do 6K easily if the engine can keep up, or push it down to 4.2 million to keep it as native 1440p. 4K is only 8.29 million pixels.

the thing with this demo there has been loads said about it but very little in terms of any real info on it, at the time it was said it was only possible because of the SSD in the PS5 , which looks silly now when the Xbox is keeping up in majority of stuff game wise. There is also been no talk of how big the file size was or how much overhead the ps5 had left while running the demo.

it's a great demo but achievable on Xbox as well

 

[mejin]

My conclusion: We're going to have to wait some time to see some real benefits of these two consoles.

Ah least on PS5 we'll definitely see some miracles cause of Sony WWS.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

the thing with this demo there has been loads said about it but very little in terms of any real info on it, at the time it was said it was only possible because of the SSD in the PS5 , which looks silly now when the Xbox is keeping up in majority of stuff game wise. There is also been no talk of how big the file size was or how much overhead the ps5 had left while running the demo.

it's a great demo but achievable on Xbox as well

Not achievable on Xbox. The thing happening is that it was "choking" the PS5's full 16GB RAM, while having 0.7GB pool for streaming. It was an extreme stress test, with RAW 8K, Hollywood-level assets, uncompressed. It might've used the whole available 667GB out of 825GB total. It was actually an unrealistic test to see how far it can go, and that was before Oodle Texture compression which adds another layer of speed/efficiency. But it was so light on the GPU and using as much as Fortnite:

"I can say that the GPU time spent rendering geometry in our UE5 demo is similar to the geometry rendering budget for Fortnite running at 60fps on consoles." - Nick Penwarden, vice president of engineering for Epic Games.

Epic Says The PS5 Unreal Engine 5 Demo Was Only As GPU-Intensive as Fortnite - PlayStation Universe

Epic Games has revealed more details on the impressive PS5 Unreal Engine 5 tech demo, specifically how taxing it was on the GPU.

www.psu.com

Could the Xbox achieve an overall similar looking demo? Probably, but not that crazy demo itself as you would need to massively downgrade everything and scale down.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

1440p and 30fps?

Where

The generation hasn't started properly lol There are literally no games made for Xbox Series X/S right now and no, the "tools" is not an excuse, this is literally the reason why a platform can succeed or fail sometimes, take a look at the Switch which new NDK is what's making it receive games on a constant basis.

Also, for some reason PS fans say that "raw power isn't everything efficiency is a factor" but when it comes to Xbox tools "PS5 is more powerful deal with it" LOL Do you all know that the tools are exactly what makes the system more efficient?

Also the PS development environment is already matured against Xbox's, considering MS created a new environment from scratch that hasn't arguably being finished yet so improvements in Xbox GDK vs PS SDK are gonna be much bigger, it's not the same to improve a finished product (mostly optimization or polishing) than actually finishing it (that lacks a lot more, or that is finished but very unpolished or unoptimized, specially if hardware specs were't final at the deploy date).

But we'll still have to wait for actual next gen games to see, those are gonna use all features on all ng consoles, current "ports" aren't even ports at all, they're just BC games running on capped features, they don't count not even with a "patch".

Platitudes

 

[PlayStaytion]

It's always case by case scenario when it comes to 3rd party games, some will still choose the dx3d route and some will choose the other route, the good news is neither one will be generic , the bad news as always it takes time to implement it perfectly , it's actually an open ended topic and haven't been completed in a practical way yet in most cases a huge mess for many games , take for example the ps3 demo from the guys who made heavy rain ,I don't care how much effort have been putted into developing big triple a titles, it was never at the level of that demo.

 

[pasterpl]

Not achievable on Xbox. The thing happening is that it was "choking" the PS5's full 16GB RAM, while having 0.7GB pool for streaming. It was an extreme stress test, with RAW 8K, Hollywood-level assets, uncompressed. It might've used the whole available 667GB out of 825GB total. It was actually an unrealistic test to see how far it can go, and that was before Oodle Texture compression which adds another layer of speed/efficiency. But it was so light on the GPU and using as much as Fortnite:

"I can say that the GPU time spent rendering geometry in our UE5 demo is similar to the geometry rendering budget for Fortnite running at 60fps on consoles." - Nick Penwarden, vice president of engineering for Epic Games.

Epic Says The PS5 Unreal Engine 5 Demo Was Only As GPU-Intensive as Fortnite - PlayStation Universe

Epic Games has revealed more details on the impressive PS5 Unreal Engine 5 tech demo, specifically how taxing it was on the GPU.

www.psu.com

Could the Xbox achieve an overall similar looking demo? Probably, but not that crazy demo itself as you would need to massively downgrade everything and scale down.

guessing that you have some insider knowledge or maybe hands on engineering experience with ue5 or are you simply, not for the first time, spreading fud?

1440p and 30fps?

Looking how ps5 struggles with achieving higher resolutions in the latest multi platforms this might be case (hitting hardware limits)

 

[Bo_Hazem]

guessing that you have some insider knowledge or maybe hands on engineering experience with ue5 or are you simply, not for the first time, spreading fud?



Looking how ps5 struggles with achieving higher resolutions in the latest multi platforms this might be case (hitting hardware limits)

Go fight Tim Sweeney on Twitter and cut the crap.

 

[Chessmate]

Not achievable on Xbox. The thing happening is that it was "choking" the PS5's full 16GB RAM, while having 0.7GB pool for streaming. It was an extreme stress test, with RAW 8K, Hollywood-level assets, uncompressed. It might've used the whole available 667GB out of 825GB total. It was actually an unrealistic test to see how far it can go, and that was before Oodle Texture compression which adds another layer of speed/efficiency. But it was so light on the GPU and using as much as Fortnite:

"I can say that the GPU time spent rendering geometry in our UE5 demo is similar to the geometry rendering budget for Fortnite running at 60fps on consoles." - Nick Penwarden, vice president of engineering for Epic Games.

Epic Says The PS5 Unreal Engine 5 Demo Was Only As GPU-Intensive as Fortnite - PlayStation Universe

Epic Games has revealed more details on the impressive PS5 Unreal Engine 5 tech demo, specifically how taxing it was on the GPU.

www.psu.com

Could the Xbox achieve an overall similar looking demo? Probably, but not that crazy demo itself as you would need to massively downgrade everything and scale down.

I think I speak for a lot people here that just read this forum. You're posting way too much. Everytime an interesting discussion/topic unfolds, you enter and dominate the thread with your boring fanboyism. Often every third post in a thread is yours. We heard you, you don't need to repeat everything 50 times.

 

[Captain Toad]

Xbox tools will improve over time, but PS5 tools will remain the same?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I think I speak for a lot people here that just read this forum. You're posting way too much. Everytime an interesting discussion/topic unfolds, you enter and dominate the thread with your boring fanboyism. Often every third post in a thread is yours. We heard you, you don't need to repeat everything 50 times.

How about you keep silent when you can't discuss/debate with maturity?

 

[Chessmate]

How about you keep silent when you can't discuss/debate with maturity?

Just like you im biased and don't know much about tech. So I keep silent. I don't want to google things I don't understand and post them here, just because they seem to support my fanboy wishes. The silent majority on gaf wonders why you do this. Doesn't help anybody and makes these threads utterly boring.

 

[phil_t98]

Go fight Tim Sweeney on Twitter and cut the crap.

So where have they stated that the SSD is being used to max or how much data is being streamed for that demo at any point. If you remember this was all said ahead of it being revealed that Sony had invested £250 mill into epic. Take what ever said with a pinch of salt as it was paid for

 

[alabtrosMyster]

from scratch

That's the lie.

 

[phil_t98]

How about you keep silent when you can't discuss/debate with maturity?

I would also point out where they say that all the feature set I. That demo will run on ALL next gen consoles. Again it's what they are not say which is important and they ain't said it would not run on any other hardware

 

[kimcorecoba]

And yes XSX is not the perfect console MS wanted you to believe, and that's kinda clear right now.

I don't care for these console wars but I doubt Microsoft stated the console was perfect. I know what you mean though. So I will go straight to the point.
In less than a year, Do you think the full capabilities of both consoles have been reached? How did you come to this conclusion sir? Do you have insider info that what we are seeing now is all we will see from the xbox? Even if you think dx12 is poor, is that enough to conclude this early in the consoles life? Maybe you have future info for us. I'm only here to learn but its getting really difficult seeing how both factions are behaving like children. I'm sure you can help me though.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Just like you im biased and don't know much about tech. So I keep silent. I don't want to google things I don't understand and post them here, just because they seem to support my fanboy wishes. The silent majority on gaf wonders why you do this. Doesn't help anybody and makes these threads utterly boring.

I can post memes if that would help this thread, but the OP has posted a shitty post that needs to be addressed with solid sources. Yes, serious discussions are boring, but they enlighten as well.

In any case, I'm sorry for making you feel so, but my posts are direct and meant to be that way instead of attacking people, I'm debating ideas and thoughts.

I would also point out where they say that all the feature set I. That demo will run on ALL next gen consoles. Again it's what they are not say which is important and they ain't said it would not run on any other hardware

Have you even heard of the word "scalability"? Yes it'll work even on smartphones, but that's the keyword. If you think Tim is biased/liar, then Phil Spencer said native 4K@60fps is the standard on XSX and this will be the biggest launch in Xbox history in terms of games. If Microsoft can show something as impressive they would've done it way back, or just worked with their friends at Epic Games to make similar demo as they use their engine for many of their games like Gears.