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[DrGAKMAN]

Someone hasn't lived through or read videogame history. Nintendo bent developers and publishers over in the NES days and signed them to insano contracts giving themselves exclusive games for years on end.

Ummm...how does Nintendo being ruthless & totalitarian in the NES era apply to my statements on how they garnered 3RD support?

Did they buy their way to the top...no! Did they pay out the ass for exclussives...no! Did they bend over for 3RD parties...no! They bent them over 'cos they gained big attention with the NES, SNES & GameBoy brand. They got the attention 'cos THEY themselves took the risks in releasing the NES and THEY themselves had made alot of games in the first year of the NES, SNES & GameBoy and thusly THEY created their own userbase...which 3RD parties followed! Since then competition has come in...but just as hurtful to Nintendo is the fact that they haven't really done what they did with the NES, SNES & GameBoy. With N64 they launched with 2 games...they got a userbase, but couldn't keep it 'cos they had 2 games...yes the carts were a factor, but just as much Nintendo themselves didn't have the output they had in the early NES days...so therefore the 3RD parties didn't follow. With GCN they bent over to get 3RD parties back and they rebuilt bridges they burned...BUT...where's the userbase...without the userbase the 3RD parties didn't follow did they...and why not...'cos Nintendo themselves didn't build the userbase which can go back partly to the fact that 2ND parties DID NOT deliver and that Nintendo THEMSELVES also didn't either...they've been increasing their output, but still not to the days of the early NES which saw: Mario Bros, DK, SMBros, Zelda, Excitebike, Metroid, Kid Icarus, SMBros 2, Zelda 2 and a slew of other Nintendo made games in it's first year and a half.

So...my point...the Revolution will hopefully force Nintendo to THEMSELVES create that output that they had in the NES days. They can't rely on 3RD parties to support them upfront or "fill in the gaps"...they THEMSELVES have to create a userbase to attract 3RD parties to follow!

 

[DJPS2]

That's nice and all, but the success of the NES was still fueled by a combination of first-party and third-party software. In fact, many of the most successful consoles were able to strike a good balance between the two. (i.e. Genesis, SNES, PlayStation, PS2)

Although I personally don't like much of Nintendo's first-party stuff anymore, lots of others seem to think that Nintendo's games are still top-notch. Nintendo's games aren't the problem, IMO... and if you're trying to get Nintendo to abandon their "quality over quantity" mantra, forget it.

 

[-SRV-]

Oh this is terrible! I should have known better than to open this thread.

I thought there would be a discussion on Revolution like the thread's title indicated, but instead I get a bunch of slobbering assclowns breaking their fingers trying to tell other slobbering assclowns who needs to do what to be king of the console hill.

every f*cking day, i swear!

Consider this pillaged by a bunch of assclowns! :lol

This has been pretty civil here. your intentions were good.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Disclaimer: This thread's a bit too long for me to read through right now, so sorry if I'm repeating points.

I'm personally quite happy for Nintendo to go as far out as they like with differences to the other consoles. As long as the reasons aren't detrimental to all their games, then it's all to the good.

I don't need another console which basically does the same thing as the others. Especially now it's a three console market. Any game which could have come out on the GC and will no longer be possible on the Revolution (traditional 2D fighters for example if the reports on no D pad are true for example) can just come out on the other two systems. Or on the PSP or DS. There are plenty of choices. I also don't worry about Nintendo's own games not being playable, as if they're going to make a system so weird that Mario or Zelda wouldn't be possible.

So basically anything different is good in my view. Even if it fails it's no problem, Nintendo can either go back to making normal systems or go third party. People point to Sega to show why they don't want Nintendo going third party, but come on, that was Sega. I can't think of another company who makes such consistently bad decisions and seems to almost go out of their way to screw their fans, with the occasional gem thrown in. Nintendo would be fine third party. Iwata has said they'd just stop existing before going third party, but whatever, as if they'd just let the company die. Even if they did, it's not like their employees are just going to stop making games, there'll just be a sudden huge influx of talent into the rest of the industry.

Anyway, I'm rambling a bit. Basically it's this:

Nintendo trying different things = good. It might work, any games which don't work on the system can move to another. If it doesn't work, things can go back to the way they were or they can try something else.

 

[TheTurtleTitan]

Let me just say that I would love it if wireless controllers were a staple next gen.

 

[Timbuktu]

yeah, Nintendo's problems aren't really their games, we know they can make games and they can make good efficient hardware. Their one and biggest problem is branding. I mean, games that top the charts now don't even have to be good. It might be worth them considering starting an entirely new brand to go alongside the Nintendo name. Whoever did the branding and marketing of the iPod would be good enough to do the job. And it wouldn't hurt if they can get Ive to design their hardware too.

 

[Dice]

Well after all we have learned, how could Mario 128 NOT be on Gamecube? If it started production on Gamecube, how could it finish on a system supposedly designed to be entirely different?

I just hope the new Mario is cool, cause I didn't like Mario Sunshine. I hope they make it really big like Mario 3 was in it's day.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Mario 128 is just what everyone's calling the new Mario. I'm not sure how specific a game it is yet. I know for a long time it was just a lot of experiments to see what direction they would take the new game. Miyamoto wants the next one to be special (burned by some of the Sunshine negativity? Perhaps) and he wants the control to be less complicated so new gamers can get into it like they could with games in the past.

So that's a lot of work, they're not just working off the same basic system that Mario 64 and Sunshine followed. I hear too many people saying they don't even believe Mario 128 exists anymore (not in this thread, just in general), but they don't understand that a new Mario ALWAYS exists, just like a new Zelda does, it just might exist in the form of experiments.

We don't know that the next system will be entirely different. It may well cross over enough that Mario 128 will work on it just fine, with some changes (which they have plenty of time to implement).

 

[ManaByte]

Well after all we have learned, how could Mario 128 NOT be on Gamecube? If it started production on Gamecube, how could it finish on a system supposedly designed to be entirely different?

Star Fox Adventures (N64 to GCN)? Eternal Darkness (N64 to GCN)? Kameo (GCN to Xbox to Xbox2)? Too Human (PSX to GCN to who the hell knows)?

 

[Dice]

Star Fox Adventures (N64 to GCN)? Eternal Darkness (N64 to GCN)? Kameo (GCN to Xbox to Xbox2)? Too Human (PSX to GCN to who the hell knows)?

Those have the same design, just more or less powerful. I'm talking about the supposed difference in controllers and whatnot.

 

[soundwave05]

*If* Game Boy Next plays GCN discs, then that could be another incentive to keep Mario 128 as is, since it could act as a Game Boy Next launch title.

It might be better to launch the Revolution with a Mario Kart (multiplayer oriented) title actually for the Nintendo fans and a bunch of other new types of games surrounding that.

 

[thorns]

I mean, games that top the charts now don't even have to be good.

Yes they have to be good..GTA3-4-5, Halo 1-2, GT 3 , Tony Hawk Series etc. etc. are top quality games. Crap games do not sell.

 

[Timbuktu]

Yes they have to be good..GTA3-4-5, Halo 1-2, GT 3 , Tony Hawk Series etc. etc. are top quality games. Crap games do not sell.

sorry, I live in the UK. Good games with big names sell, but many good games do not and many shit games with big names sell.

 

[soundwave05]

What I'd like to see from Revolution:

- Some kind of crazy new control scheme, that really makes you go "wow". Even if its a bit unpractical for some games, Nintendo does need something that at least gets attention in this regard. It'd be cool if the new control mechanism requires more teamwork so it encourages you to play with your girlfriend/sister/parents/etc.

- A really futurisitc type of hardware design to make it look like something outta Star Trek or something. If its really sexy looking that helps *a lot*.

- Completely wireless via WiFi base built into the system. Can recoginize up to 12 controllers or DS units at a time for instance or interface wirelessly with other Revolution systems (LAN). This also could make a broadband/56k adapter obosolete.

- Good launch software. Why not partner with Square-Enix for a Nintendo-Square-Enix RPG ala Kingdom Hearts? That'd be a million seller for Japan. Then let Retro make their own FPS using the systems unique interface and try some really new things with the FPS genre?

A system like that, might have at least a decent shot out of the gates. Perhaps the new control method they've come up with replaces buttons with something else. Being "toy like" isn't so bad, as long as it doesn't mean "Fisher Price" toy but more like a toy out of a science fiction movie or a James Bond film ... then that's suddenly pretty cool.

 

[Mama Smurf]

It might be better to launch the Revolution with a Mario Kart (multiplayer oriented) title actually for the Nintendo fans and a bunch of other new types of games surrounding that.

That's pretty much what they did with the GC, only with Smash Bros. Not that Smash Bros was a launch title, but it was only 2 weeks after so it might as well have been.

No, I think Nintendo need a big multiplayer game and a big single player game to launch it. Or the same game which has both, like Halo for example. And other games obviously.

 

[gofreak]

That's pretty much what they did with the GC, only with Smash Bros. Not that Smash Bros was a launch title, but it was only 2 weeks after so it might as well have been.

No, I think Nintendo need a big multiplayer game and a big single player game to launch it. Or the same game which has both, like Halo for example. And other games obviously.

Whatever happened to pilotwings? Iwata talked about it and then..nothing. Are factor5 involved? I'd dearly love that at Revolution launch. It'd stir some nostalgia for the old n64 brigade too.

A gyroscope/motion detecting type system could work exceptionally with a game like that too. The immersion, I imagine, would be high. Think about, for example, "tugging" parachute handles or steering as you would in reality.

I'd love that, a "proper" Mario game and a big online multiplayer title. Perfection.

 

[soundwave05]

They need some kind of FPS title I think (Sony will too). Nintendo has Retro already, so why not.

The Nintendo "loyalists" will buy the system if any one of the major Nintendo franchises is availible at or around launch though, so I don't think Nintendo has to worry too much about that.

I do think if Mario 128 is still a GCN title though ... maybe they should seriously consider moving Zelda Reborn to the Revolution.

GameCube already got Wind Waker, 4 Swords, and OOT/Ura-Zelda Collector's Disc. I mean that's quite a bit of Zelda already.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Whatever happened to pilotwings? Iwata talked about it and then..nothing. Are factor5 involved? I'd dearly love that at Revolution launch. It'd stir some nostalgia for the old n64 brigade too.

I believe it was cancelled. At least the Factor 5 version. Maybe we'll see it from someone else, or perhaps it was only put in hiatus and Factor 5 will go back to it after they make whatever it is they're making for (in my opinion) the Xenon.

Kind of going a bit off topic here, but my money's on an online Rogue Squadron title for the Xenon. It just makes too much sense for everyone not to happen.

 

[soundwave05]

Yeah I could see Star Wars: Rogue Squadron Online for the Xenon/PS3.

 

[CrisKre]

I dont think Pilotwings Next was cancelled. It was just not mentioned anymore, and certainly not mentioned anywhere near the gamecube name anymore.

I think it is a safe assumption to make to consider it moved to revolution. Its just that so litle is known about Rev at this point I do not know what to think. The N fan in me hopes it really is something special and, no pun intentded, revolutionary.

That said, I believe Mario 128 should be a R launch title. It is the only way I see both, revolution having a great launch and this new mario game being as much of an industry standard setting experience as Mario 64 was. That and new Super Smash somewhere near launch window and Ill be more than pleased.

 

[lupin^^]

Factor 5 stated they would not develop any other games for GameCube. They are working on next-gen consoles and supposedly on Pilotwings for Nintendo Revolution.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

yeah, Nintendo's problems aren't really their games, we know they can make games and they can make good efficient hardware. Their one and biggest problem is branding. I mean, games that top the charts now don't even have to be good. It might be worth them considering starting an entirely new brand to go alongside the Nintendo name. Whoever did the branding and marketing of the iPod would be good enough to do the job. And it wouldn't hurt if they can get Ive to design their hardware too.

While I agree that Nintendo's image has always been their biggest problem I was talking in reference to gaining 3RD party support. In the past Nintendo garnered their support by providing a BIG user-base with THEIR OWN games. With N64 though, they launched with 2 games and there were alot of draughts. With GAMECUBE they rebuilt burnt bridges with 3RD parties, but again they didn't make enough of their own games to provide a big enough userbase for 3RD parties to trive in.

My argument isn't that Nintendo isn't making quality games...it's just that if you look at the NES's first year there were ALOT of big games straight from Nintendo THEMSELVES, not only that but they were more diverse and they were games that truly sold the system to the point where 3RD parties wanted in on it. Nintendo needs to do this again with Revolution if they hope to attract enough of a user-base to garner 3RD parties. Not just with quantity of output, but with diversity too. 3RD parties make cutesy, cartoony, multiplayer, quarky for GAMECUBE 'cos Nintendo themselves does it. They don't make mature games or online games...'cos Nintendo doesn't. DUN DUN DUN!

Back on topic. I don't think Revolution will be limited to ONE controller interface. Look at GCN...it has more than just one way to play games. While there is a main controller I think with Revolution they're not limited to having just one controller...even main controllers. I'm thinking there will be traditional regular controllers AS WELL AS gyro motion sensor controllers!

 

[Bluemercury]

Their handheld dominance (and primary source of cash) is over.

I will remember this quote......and hope you to be here in 3 or 4 years....

 

[Mama Smurf]

I dont think Pilotwings Next was cancelled. It was just not mentioned anymore, and certainly not mentioned anywhere near the gamecube name anymore.

I think it is a safe assumption to make to consider it moved to revolution. Its just that so litle is known about Rev at this point I do not know what to think. The N fan in me hopes it really is something special and, no pun intentded, revolutionary.

"Pilot Wings

Hey, I've got a simple question that I would imagine has probably got some kind of not-so-simple answer.

Last I heard, Pilotwings was in the hands of Factor 5... But in light of somewhat recent developments what has happened to the license?

Are we talking vaporware? or will this game possibly see a release during GameCube's lifetime?

Thanks.

Matt responds: I don't believe that Factor 5 is still working on that project. Definitely not in the immediate future, anyway. In talking with developers, nobody seems to have a clear idea yet what Revolution is all about, and very few companies have any legitimate specs to build on. I think Factor 5's next game is more likely to show up on Microsoft's next system. That doesn't mean that it has ended all ties with Nintendo because I don't believe that is true either. It is, like everyone else, just waiting to understand what Nintendo's next system is going to be."

http://cube.ign.com/mail/2004-11-18.html

Seeing as IGN is where the story originates from, I'm gonna believe the new info too.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

I think the N must be going more niche, more first party with the home console this gen. Tie it to the handheld even more. Otherwise I think they would be more aggressive about letting 3rd parties know about platform plans and securing a better position than they have the last 2 gens. And I mean, why not? What they do best is first party and classic IP driven and if they did something wacky that tied into their strength they'd still make lots of money and not waste much taking on the big 2.

 

[koam]

What we need to focus on is not bragging right over who will be #1 but rather, opportunities. Because of Nintendo's focus, we'll have two different types of games, the standard ones that Sony and Microsoft's systems will have, and the alternative ones that will be using whatever technology Nintendo decides to use. Diversity is good. If it shoots Nintendo in the foot, then that will suck but I don't think Nintendo would be that dumb. The DS sounded very stupid when it was first announced with 2 screens but it paid off well (save maybe the lack of power).

 

[Axsider]

Reggie = Idiot

 

[monkeyrun]

wireles joypads, that's their revolution?

lol .. probably ...

Good to know that they finally realize 3rd party's important.

 

[soundwave05]

I seriously doubt its just wireless joypads, although the Revolution likely will have wireless standard controller interface.

They're already doing crazier stuff than that on the GameCube (bongo drums for DK: JB, microphone for Mario Party VI).

Revolution will probably really be out there, for better or worse.

 

[SantaC]

Reggie = Idiot

yeah damn him for doing his job.

 

[Axsider]

yeah damn him for doing his job.

No, you can do your job, but still say some good "points". But he is just ...... "stupid". A perfect "Hitler" for all Nintendrones!

 

[Musashi Wins!]

A perfect "Hitler" for all Nintendrones!

Wha? He's a dumb ass PR guy, lauded by a bunch of nerds. But I think you're analogy here is FUCKING INSANE AND POORLY THOUGHT OUT.

 

[Axsider]

Wha? He's a dumb ass PR guy, lauded by a bunch of nerds. But I think you're analogy here is FUCKING INSANE AND POORLY THOUGHT OUT.

Boy, think about his last "interviews". Overall (if you think about it): SONY = fuc****
Microsoft = fuc***! Nintendo = god!
His interviews are jokes. It's like interviewing a 7 year old Nintendo-fanboy!
Sorry, I love Nintendo. But this guy is a poor idi**

 

[Musashi Wins!]

He's a PR guy. They are professional fanboys. The styles are different, but that's their job. Yea, he's funny and repulsive all at once representing Nintendo...but Hitler? You've got to step away.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Boy, think about his last "interviews". Overall (if you think about it): SONY = fuc****
Microsoft = fuc***! Nintendo = god!
His interviews are jokes. It's like interviewing a 7 year old Nintendo-fanboy!
Sorry, I love Nintendo. But this guy is a poor idi**

At least Reggie ACKNOWLEDGES Nintendo has competiton unlike some Nintendo people who've been "figureheads" in the past. Yeah he pokes fun at the competition, but it would be better to do that rather than ignore them altogether and say they're not competing. And believe it or not, but Nintendo's imaging and advertising has been on the rise since he showed up...yeah their mindshare is still declining on the console front, but I think that has more to do with GCN's poor shell design than it does Reggie's actions. He also doesn't seem to be settling for third place and has voiced that which is better than him simply being happy with last place.

 

[nathkenn]

 

[Justin Bailey]

No, you can do your job, but still say some good "points". But he is just ...... "stupid". A perfect "Hitler" for all Nintendrones!

Godwin strikes again.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Here's a better explaination of the idea I have for a conventional Revolution controller as well as a gyro tech. "GameWand" controller.

http://www.geocities.com/drgakmanx/NintendoSpeculationPage.html

 

[Teddman]

Reggie says to beat Sony three things are needed:
1)Offer an innovative experience
2)Coming to the market at the same time
3)Gain the best third party support.

4) Pigs must fly.

 

[Do The Mario]

Wow Mario 128 on GC!

This means that GC sales are going to hit 40 million!