-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Report: NX Handheld Dimensions, Layout Info, Lack of Region Lock
- Thread starter Dystify
- Start date
- Status
Calm Mind
Member
Just 21 days left to announce this thing.
Dark Cloud
Member
you either mean the mini-projector (not holograms) or holographic storage (also not holograms)
Skittzo0413
Member
I like this post. Based on all of the mockups we've seen earlier in this thread I absolutely agree with you that one of those four points can't coexist with the others. And I think you're right that it's NES sideways style controls.
In order for the portable/console hybrid to be feasible you need the controls when holding the portable to be similar to the controls detached from the portable, which would be one of the control portions in each hand, like two wiimotes. Therefore that configuration must be the priority for ergonomic design. If you want to be able to have a comfortable dual analog control scheme you must use diagonally offset control sticks/controls, which does not work well for sideways NES style controls.
I have a really good mockup in my head based on this but my earlier attempts at making it in paint.net were kind of awful...
This could work for some games but the initial buy in is much higher as a full game costs way more than they are used to paying for mobile games. I think the transition needs to be more gradual.
Dark Cloud
Member
Oh ok. What exactly is a holographic storage? I've never heard of it before.
I looked it up. Another type of storage using light.
it is one of many alternatives for disc storage with high potential capacity, Nintendo had a research agreement and shared a patent with InPhase, which went under in 2010
further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_data_storage
I agree the NES style controllers is definitely the tricky part. We have seen rumors that the d-pad is indeed split like a Sony d-pad and I can't think of any other reason they would do that if not to accommodate NES style use.
Because I always pictured seeing seperate Wii Remotes for multiplayer (Hence the detachable controllers can act as seperate Wii Remotes), I couldn't picture sideways controllers because of the symmetry needed to pull it off and to have it attached to the device. (It'd be more easier just selling seperate traditional controllers for multiplayer.)
Edit: I hit a wall... I forgot that the detachable controllers are asymmetric.
AquaWateria
Member
I sincerely hope Nintendo doesn't market the NX as unclear as Sony has with the Pro.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Sony has 4K HDR TVs to sell. Nintendo don't have such urges.
AquaWateria
Member
This is what I am trying to explain.
The Asymmetric one on the left is the one Emily claims. If the controllers were shaped like that, there is no way you can use them sideways like traditional controllers. (Going by the shape when you rotate it, the circle pad would be on the right if you have the flat edge facing down.)
What I am claiming, is that if they were still shaped that way. They would make sense as multiplayer controllers in Wii Remote style.
If you detach the right controller, that goes into your right hand, face buttons on top, circle pad on bottom.
If you detach the left controller and give it to someone, they will flip it around and hold it in their right hand because of the shape.
What would the position of the buttons be? Face buttons on top, circle pad on the bottom.
Hence, they would be symmetric in local 2P Wii Style multiplayer. Does this mean that the nunchuk could come back?
Edit: You may ask, why would the circle pads be on the bottom in that multiplayer mode? Because Wii Style controls were simple, you used the IR Pointer to aim at things, you have gyro to do that for you. Now I'm really wonder if the nunchuk would come back.
The Asymmetric one on the left is the one Emily claims. If the controllers were shaped like that, there is no way you can use them sideways like traditional controllers. (Going by the shape when you rotate it, the circle pad would be on the right if you have the flat edge facing down.)
What I am claiming, is that if they were still shaped that way. They would make sense as multiplayer controllers in Wii Remote style.
If you detach the right controller, that goes into your right hand, face buttons on top, circle pad on bottom.
If you detach the left controller and give it to someone, they will flip it around and hold it in their right hand because of the shape.
What would the position of the buttons be? Face buttons on top, circle pad on the bottom.
Hence, they would be symmetric in local 2P Wii Style multiplayer. Does this mean that the nunchuk could come back?
Edit: You may ask, why would the circle pads be on the bottom in that multiplayer mode? Because Wii Style controls were simple, you used the IR Pointer to aim at things, you have gyro to do that for you. Now I'm really wonder if the nunchuk would come back.
Mr. Pointy
Member
You know what, I want a new Donkey Kong Country game so we can argue over which DKC trilogy is better. Bring it on, Retro.
Fourth Storm
Member
This is what I am trying to explain.
The Asymmetric one on the left is the one Emily claims. If the controllers were shaped like that, there is no way you can use them sideways like traditional controllers. (Going by the shape when you rotate it, the circle pad would be on the right if you have the flat edge facing down.)
What I am claiming, is that if they were still shaped that way. They would make sense as multiplayer controllers in Wii Remote style.
If you detach the right controller, that goes into your right hand, face buttons on top, circle pad on bottom.
If you detach the left controller and give it to someone, they will flip it around and hold it in their right hand because of the shape.
What would the position of the buttons be? Face buttons on top, circle pad on the bottom.
Hence, they would be symmetric in local 2P Wii Style multiplayer. Does this mean that the nunchuk could come back?
I think the flat center surface will be the top in horizontal mode. In 2 player vertical orientation, the outer rounded edge would face in towards you palm. Circle pad on top.
Which becomes a problem, where are the shoulder buttons? Emily claimed there are at least 2. (This is referring to horizontal mode.)
ShockingAlberto
Member
They have specifically said the Gameboy brand doesn't work for them because it's a gender-biased name and like half their audience is women now.
Im trying to figure why you couldnt turn the turn the left piece 90 degrees ccw and the rught piece 90 degrees cw. What flat edge? Down how, down to ground or down towards the person as in a top-down perspective? (because what kind of monster holds a game controller with the face perpendicular to the floor)
Skittzo0413
Member
I still think the shoulders and triggers can be on the flat side of the controllers, under the screen when docked, rather than on top of the controller. That's where your index finger would naturally sit with controllers of that shape.
Of course it gets complicated to have comfortable shoulders and triggers when in sideways NES style mode, which is why I think that won't be a thing with the NX.
l________l <--- flat edge
(-------) <----- rounded edges
So... (Orientation)
(--------)
Face buttons LHS + Circle Pad RHS
l________l
Note: Left Hand Side = LHS
Right Hand Side = RHS
Edit: Next, where does the shoulder button go?
Davey Cakes
Member
On the topic of VR, I'm glad Nintendo is at least looking into it for the future, but with NX I don't believe VR should be a priority at all. It's too much of an investment in an expensive technology that may or may not truly take off with Nintendo's audience. Nintendo's dealt enough with being hamstrung by unnecessary and unproven features.
Once (if) they get their foot in the door with NX and re-establish their brand, perhaps that'll pave the way for ambitious ventures in VR. For now, the new system has to be lean, only chasing the basics of what their potential consumer base requires. Yes, portability and convenience fit the bill.
Personally, while NX is looking more like a handheld/tablet with TV capability as opposed to a full-on console, I'm actually happy about the idea of a console-like experience that can be easily transported around. Over time it's become a slight annoyance to lug the Wii U everywhere when wanting to play with friends. I'm sure my brother feels the same way about his PS4. In addition, I will admit that this is also coming from a place where I've grown to appreciate convenience. My concerns for having physical games, for example, are slowly going away as I realize that there are experiences such as Splatoon, Smash, Kart, and Mario Maker that just work better in digital form with quick access. Let me hold the license to a game forever and I'm good.
NX obviously won't be digital-only but the use of carts instead of discs and the idea of being a single platform put it at least closer to my new ideal.
Once (if) they get their foot in the door with NX and re-establish their brand, perhaps that'll pave the way for ambitious ventures in VR. For now, the new system has to be lean, only chasing the basics of what their potential consumer base requires. Yes, portability and convenience fit the bill.
Personally, while NX is looking more like a handheld/tablet with TV capability as opposed to a full-on console, I'm actually happy about the idea of a console-like experience that can be easily transported around. Over time it's become a slight annoyance to lug the Wii U everywhere when wanting to play with friends. I'm sure my brother feels the same way about his PS4. In addition, I will admit that this is also coming from a place where I've grown to appreciate convenience. My concerns for having physical games, for example, are slowly going away as I realize that there are experiences such as Splatoon, Smash, Kart, and Mario Maker that just work better in digital form with quick access. Let me hold the license to a game forever and I'm good.
NX obviously won't be digital-only but the use of carts instead of discs and the idea of being a single platform put it at least closer to my new ideal.
Going off my last post, even the shoulder buttons end up in the wrong positions if held Wii Remote style.
I'm starting to question this detachable controllers can act as standalone multiplayer controllers...
What are the local multiplayer controllers you can go and buy going to look like? Will they be shaped so they can attach to things too?
I'm starting to question this detachable controllers can act as standalone multiplayer controllers...
What are the local multiplayer controllers you can go and buy going to look like? Will they be shaped so they can attach to things too?
Skittzo0413
Member
This is what I was trying to describe earlier (specifically for the shoulder and trigger buttons):
^Front view as normal
^Side view, on the side of the connector
Considering the controllers are fairly thin, then your index finger would naturally sit on that side of the controller when using it in the normal attached mode, so having the buttons on that side, below where the screen connects to the controller should work fairly naturally. The exact placement in my mockup I'm sure isn't ideal, but I'm just trying to convey that idea.
Also the connector/d-pad are just simple shapes I've used to save time, since I'm just trying to demonstrate where the shoulders/triggers can go.
This is what I was trying to describe earlier (specifically for the shoulder and trigger buttons):
^Side view, on the side of the connector
This is confusing because a shoulder button is supposed to be on the shoulder (on top). Does that look like it's on the back?
Skittzo0413
Member
I think for thin controllers this is a more natural location... maybe they wouldn't really be called shoulder buttons anymore?
I'm now trying to find that tweet where a Eurogamer person may have claimed the detachable controllers could be used standalone for multiplayer.
This is what I am trying to explain.
The Asymmetric one on the left is the one Emily claims. If the controllers were shaped like that, there is no way you can use them sideways like traditional controllers. (Going by the shape when you rotate it, the circle pad would be on the right if you have the flat edge facing down.)
What I am claiming, is that if they were still shaped that way. They would make sense as multiplayer controllers in Wii Remote style.
If you detach the right controller, that goes into your right hand, face buttons on top, circle pad on bottom.
If you detach the left controller and give it to someone, they will flip it around and hold it in their right hand because of the shape.
What would the position of the buttons be? Face buttons on top, circle pad on the bottom.
Hence, they would be symmetric in local 2P Wii Style multiplayer. Does this mean that the nunchuk could come back?
Edit: You may ask, why would the circle pads be on the bottom in that multiplayer mode? Because Wii Style controls were simple, you used the IR Pointer to aim at things, you have gyro to do that for you. Now I'm really wonder if the nunchuk would come back.
My right hand hurts looking at that left concept picture again x_x
I'm guessing if they are going for that left design there aren't any triggers, just bumpers. Something like this to me is kinda hard to conceptualize right now because I feel we are still missing some sort of aspect to the control scheme, especially when it is docked.
Wake me up when March is over, as the NX will (hopefully) have finally been revealed by then - hopefully!.
I didn't see Emily's diagram of the NX before, this calls for a new mock up for me to do! Maybe this one won't explode over Japanese social media again
Just put a watermark over it "Mock-up" splashed across the image.
Edit: I guess it wouldn't matter, it could be claimed as coming from Nintendo. lol
This is what I am trying to explain.
The Asymmetric one on the left is the one Emily claims. If the controllers were shaped like that, there is no way you can use them sideways like traditional controllers. (Going by the shape when you rotate it, the circle pad would be on the right if you have the flat edge facing down.)
What I am claiming, is that if they were still shaped that way. They would make sense as multiplayer controllers in Wii Remote style.
If you detach the right controller, that goes into your right hand, face buttons on top, circle pad on bottom.
If you detach the left controller and give it to someone, they will flip it around and hold it in their right hand because of the shape.
What would the position of the buttons be? Face buttons on top, circle pad on the bottom.
Hence, they would be symmetric in local 2P Wii Style multiplayer. Does this mean that the nunchuk could come back?
Edit: You may ask, why would the circle pads be on the bottom in that multiplayer mode? Because Wii Style controls were simple, you used the IR Pointer to aim at things, you have gyro to do that for you. Now I'm really wonder if the nunchuk would come back.
they may be symmetric controls tho
you just turn them so the analog stick is on the top for wiimote mode
Skittzo0413
Member
Why can't you have local multiplayer with the detachable controllers used in wiimote-style? Also what is preventing the shoulder/trigger location I mentioned from allowing them to be used NES style even (which I don't think will be used in the final product, but I'm curious what you find wrong with that placement).
The problem occurs with the shoulder buttons, one of them is on the other side.
Well, that probably doesn't matter but surely there are trigger buttons, that would probably be on the wrong side too.
Edit:
The orientation affects the placement of the trigger buttons unless there aren't any.
I guess shoulder buttons in Wii Remote style wouldn't matter because it needs to be shaped like a nunchuk.
Again, the weird part is what will the design of these controllers look like? Will they be good that they'll sell detachable controllers for multiplayer, or will they make a fancy looking Wii Remote that's bigger than 4 inches?
Do it.I didn't see Emily's diagram of the NX before, this calls for a new mock up for me to do! Maybe this one won't explode over Japanese social media again
And put Nintendo logos and a trademark copyright on the bottom so Japanese social media thinks it's real.
Hm, I thought there was that MCV rumor stating Mario and Pokémon within 6 months of launch. I took that to mean more like holiday, but I assumed it was true insofar as we'd see Mario and Pokémon (maybe a Sun/Moon port) Holiday 2017 to drive sales.
The real question is what is Good Feel working on?
...
Wouldn't it be crazy if Good Feel made a 2D Metroid? Just take the established formula like they did with Yoshi and pretty it up.
Wouldn't be surprised if they're just taking over Yoshi for the near future, but they've done a few different franchises. Man I'd love a 3D platformer outta them too.
I'd love a 3D platformer from them. Picturing a yarn or cutesy or cartoony Metroid piqued my interest significantly, though fans would revolt.
I'm wondering if they've been working on the Poochy port.
I really hope so. Their last two are two of the greatest 2D platformers ever made, and that's my favorite genre so to me they're two of my favorite games ever.
User123456
Member
She was talking about a devkit, y'know.
Roto Prime
Banned
__________
|------[__R__ ]
|--------|~~~~|
|--------|~~~~/
|--------|~~~(
|--------|~~~(
|--------|ZR
|--------|~~~(
|--------|~~~(
|--------|~~~~\
|--------|____ |
|____[__R__]
Try not to laugh at my ugly type drawing... I think if Nintendo could make a ZR in the back. Kind of like the game pad shape but that makes half a circle. you could use the controller on any side you like. I still think being able to swap the buttons would be better.
|------[__R__ ]
|--------|~~~~|
|--------|~~~~/
|--------|~~~(
|--------|~~~(
|--------|ZR
|--------|~~~(
|--------|~~~(
|--------|~~~~\
|--------|____ |
|____[__R__]
Try not to laugh at my ugly type drawing... I think if Nintendo could make a ZR in the back. Kind of like the game pad shape but that makes half a circle. you could use the controller on any side you like. I still think being able to swap the buttons would be better.
DKCR and DKC: TF are both absolutely amazing games so that wouldn't be a bad thing. I would prefer for them to be working on a new IP or Eternal Darkness though.
Skittzo0413
Member
I'm not sure I'm following what the problem is. I do think that they will be sorta shaped like nunchucks, in that there will be an angled grip portion along with diagonally offset controls, and I don't know where the shoulders/triggers will be, but I can't see the problem in where I placed them in that mockup.
When you hold a normal remote control, or wiimote, or nunchuck, your fingers wrap around the backside and naturally rest on the opposite side from where your thumb extends. If the shoulder and trigger buttons are on that opposite side, then they should be exactly where your fingers will be resting during both attached portable play, and in detached dual/single wiimote style play. There shouldn't be any difference in the control scheme whether or not they're attached, which is what I think is the goal of the entire device.
I forgot that I made the mistake of taking the mock-up as though it was similar to the actual design.
However, it raises questions. (Not begging the question)
These detachable controllers are asymmetric, yet they are claimed by Eurogamer to be able to function as stand alone multiplayer controllers.
In what way? Traditional Controller style? Wii Remote Style?
We have to look at how it would work in design.
The controllers would (I think) have to be symmetric in multiplayer otherwise button prompts on screen will look confusing.
We have no information if the controllers have triggers. There are two shoulder buttons but if we flipped one of the controllers for symmetry in Wii Remote style, the button would be facing the other side, towards you.
Since the controllers are ~4 inches or 9.3cm in height, there should still be enough space to reach the shoulder button in Wii Remote mode.
So then the problem that occurs is... The shoulder button gets flipped to the other side on one of them.
Lastly, we still don't know about trigger buttons. Hence, a similar problem could occur with the above when flipping.
However, it raises questions. (Not begging the question)
These detachable controllers are asymmetric, yet they are claimed by Eurogamer to be able to function as stand alone multiplayer controllers.
In what way? Traditional Controller style? Wii Remote Style?
We have to look at how it would work in design.
The controllers would (I think) have to be symmetric in multiplayer otherwise button prompts on screen will look confusing.
We have no information if the controllers have triggers. There are two shoulder buttons but if we flipped one of the controllers for symmetry in Wii Remote style, the button would be facing the other side, towards you.
Since the controllers are ~4 inches or 9.3cm in height, there should still be enough space to reach the shoulder button in Wii Remote mode.
So then the problem that occurs is... The shoulder button gets flipped to the other side on one of them.
Lastly, we still don't know about trigger buttons. Hence, a similar problem could occur with the above when flipping.
It's likely the final design will be less bulky, smaller than the devkit Emily describes because the current devkit likely contains a higher clocked X1 with a fan instead of the final pascal chip. This will also help out with battery life.
Besides nobody (that hasn't signed NDAs) has seen or tried it out, so it's to early to say anything.
Skittzo0413
Member
Yeah these are all very good points, especially the need to flip the right controller for it to be usable in the right hand for local multiplayer. I really can't think of a way to solve that unless somehow there are shoulders on both sides, which would wind up being very clunky.
At this point I'm positive we're missing a huge chunk of the picture, and it won't really make all that much sense until we see the reveal. Whenever that is. Sigh.
- Status