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[BronsonLee]

IMO it's over. The deep state has made its decision, just a question of when at this point. Trump chose poorly when he went on the offensive against the IC, they will place self-preservation above his presidency

.

Trump last week: hey fuck you guys
Intelligence Community *looking up*: Oh really

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

As much as I want it to be real I reaaalllllly don't need to see that tape.

 

[Acerac]

And the USA invaded countries to spread democracy.

Oh that's a good point, I guess the thread has been solved.

Trump's actions are ok everyone, the US has invaded countries to spread democracy.

 

[Already Torn]

IMO it's over. The deep state has made its decision, just a question of when at this point. Trump chose poorly when he went on the offensive against the IC, they will place self-preservation above his presidency

.

As much as I want to agree with you, this reminds me of the whole #PussyGate stuff, but without as much negative backlash from Republicans. All these insiders talked about all the additional oppo that would droppo, but none came.

 

[Boke1879]

Read the report. It says they colluded. On NATO, Ukraine, illegally ascertaining and exchanging info with each other. It is so much deeper than Trump just being a dummy manipulated by Putin.

You can collude and still have blackmail against you. That's kinda the whole point of it all. Also it's more likely Trumps campaign surrogates were colluding rather than Trump himself. Trump wouldn't have had direct contact with Putin or the Kremlin.

 

[Permanently A]

LEAK

THE

TAPES

 

[jelly]

IMO it's over. The deep state has made its decision, just a question of when at this point. Trump chose poorly when he went on the offensive against the IC, they will place self-preservation above his presidency

What's over, what's deep state?

 

[jstripes]

Wut?

It's hiring prostitutes to piss on a bed used by the obamas. That's fucking nuts.

The bigger story is that it's being used as blackmail to direct Trumps campaign strategy and potentially his policies going forward as president.

Blackmail is serious business as we essentially have a Russian puppet as president.

It would also be treason as trump should have refused to be directed by the Russians and instead allow them to release their compromising intel, instead of willingly becoming an agent for the Russian government.

The even bigger story, the biggest of them all, if you'd read the report, is that they never even needed to use it as blackmail. Trump and his team went along with them voluntarily, and even fed intelligence (on Russian oligarchs residing in the US) back to them.

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump was 100% unaware of the tapes until recently.

 

[Generalpsyduck]

IMO it's over. The deep state has made its decision, just a question of when at this point. Trump chose poorly when he went on the offensive against the IC, they will place self-preservation above his presidency

.

So what could be on the tape? Is this connected to the pee thing?

 

[Boke1879]

For what is worth, I think Buzzfeed was kind of right in publishing that document as it provided a lot of context to what amounted to a rather amorphous blob of information. I also think it's not helping the situation at all as it's making things even muddier.

It's a journalistic clusterfuck.

My friend. I just think that's where we are in this day and age.

 

[sugarhigh4242]

Trump last week: hey fuck you guys
Intelligence Community *looking up*: Oh really

Yeah, if the CIA is willing to hack our democracy just to delete an embarrassing Senate report before it goes public, what won't they do to Trump?

He should've known better.

 

[.JayZii]

So this is the intelligence community getting a fire under their asses after Trump started trying to delegitimize them before he even took office?

Whatever the reason, we can hope when it rains, it pours.

Spoiler

#GoldenShowers

So what could be on the tape? Is this connected to the pee thing?

If there is anything on tape of him colluding, or even communicating, with Russia, it will not go over well to say the least. Especially after all of his vehement denials.

 

[opoth]

Oh that's a good point, I guess the thread has been solved.

Trump's actions are ok everyone, the US has invaded countries to spread democracy.

Don't forget about the e-mails either

 

[ErasureAcer]

#PizzaGate or #PissGate. You're either one or the other.

Oh come on. You know there's some nut out there that believes both.

 

[Otnopolit]

IMO it's over. The deep state has made its decision, just a question of when at this point. Trump chose poorly when he went on the offensive against the IC, they will place self-preservation above his presidency

.

This is very promising. So sad we have to hope that such a mind-boggling and disgusting scandal is true and verifiable to disenfranchise the elected new president of the free world. I'm young and haven't seen much, but I take it we've fallen very far as a nation this time, haven't we?

 

[BlueTsunami]

Trump last week: hey fuck you guys
Intelligence Community *looking up*: Oh really

"Information is power" has never been more relevant

 

[sphagnum]

What's over, what's deep state?

The deep state is the institutional element of the government. A lot of people don't often get kicked out of their jobs when a new administration comes in, just the guys at the top. So the deep state are the ones who are around forever.

 

[ThisGuy]

Suppose Trump goes down. What does this mean for U.S. Russia relations?

 

[paskowitz]

Even if Trump makes it through this story, the intelligence community (and it is a community) will be against him the rest of the way. I cannot fathom how he conceived this as a tenable strategy.

 

[AlphaDump]

This is the definition of clutching at straws and it's actually getting embarrassing.

Even if there are Trump sex tapes...So What???
What have these got to do with anything?


And the USA invaded countries to spread democracy.

Because then the story is true? Like what the fuck?

Also the bolded is pretty glaring whataboutism. Cmon NEOGAF..

 

[Kyzer]

You can collude and still have blackmail against you. That's kinda the whole point of it all. Also it's more likely Trumps campaign surrogates were colluding rather than Trump himself. Trump wouldn't have had direct contact with Putin or the Kremlin.

Does it matter? Its earth-shattering. Everyone who thinks otherwise just really hates Trump to the point of being willing to believe fantastical claims about him. Thats part of why it reminds me of pizzagate. People hated Hillary so much they were ready to believe the worst about her. We should be just as discerning even when its the guy we don't like.

 

[AndyD]

It's going to take some amazing solid proof to get everyone to agree it's solid proof. :\

It does not need to be everyone. He is already unpopular and congressmen have to worry about being re-elected. They can easily push for him to be led out and have Pence move in his place, who is far less controversial, that saves the party, saves their skin and retains Republican leadership in all branches.

 

[Boke1879]

IMO it's over. The deep state has made its decision, just a question of when at this point. Trump chose poorly when he went on the offensive against the IC, they will place self-preservation above his presidency

.

We'll see. I mean I don't doubt it, but we heard this during pussygate about there being more audio out there that never got released.

 

[Oriel]

This is the definition of clutching at straws and it's actually getting embarrassing.

Even if there are Trump sex tapes...So What???
What have these got to do with anything?


And the USA invaded countries to spread democracy.

Oh please.

 

[SgtCobra]

This whole ordeal is a rollercoaster of emotions and hope, leak something ffs.

 

[Already Torn]

Suppose Trump goes down. What does this mean for U.S. Russia relations?

Not good but probably better for the world

 

[Nafai1123]

New article by John Schindler former NSA officer (@20committee)

http://observer.com/2017/01/donald-trump-press-conference-prague-michael-cohen/

Probably the best analysis of the situation I've seen.

 

[jstripes]

The deep state is the institutional element of the government. A lot of people don't often get kicked out of their jobs when a new administration comes in, just the guys at the top. So the deep state are the ones who are around forever.

 

[kess]

What's over, what's deep state?

The term originated in Turkey, and was Erdogan's justification to gut the media and courts in his country. I'd rather not see it used here.

 

[sugarhigh4242]

Because then the story is true? Like what the fuck?

Also the bolded is pretty glaring whataboutism. Cmon NEOGAF..

Can you please explain what's wrong with "whataboutism" in the context of powerful state actors committing crimes against eachother? How is it different from just providing broader historical/political context?

 

[PanicFreak]

Trump last week: hey fuck you guys
Intelligence Community *looking up*: Oh really

What's funny is he is seemingly not done trying to dress down the intelligence community as witnessed by the most recent press conference. You would think he would learn his lesson.

 

[Sweeney Tom]

Trump last week: hey fuck you guys
Intelligence Community *looking up*: Oh really

Pretty much

If he's gonna take us down no matter what, might as well drag him with

 

[Ac30]

If I were going to put on a tinfoil hat for a second, I'd say that the Russians didn't mind the information leaking because it accomplishes exactly what they wanted: to further undermine American democracy. What better way to follow a tense and contested election than by having the would-be president undermined and disgraced right before Inauguration Day?

People lose faith in Democrats due to Russian intervention and people lose faith in Republicans due to then letting Russian intervention glide through on their watch. And what's America going to do, go to war with Russia over this? Even if politicians pushed for it, it would be extremely unpopular, thus further weakening people's trust in America's government. Meanwhile, in all the chaos, there are not enough grown-ups with the power needed to stop Putin from creeping into neighboring countries.

So I don't know. I feel like this could be part of Putin's long game or it could just be a couple of people pissing in the pool to see what happens.

This is all incredibly clever work from the Kremlin. It's actually very impressive. I'd almost believe it if someone told me Jill Stein was told by the Russians to call for the Wisconsin etc. recounts to further damage trust in US institutions

 

[Funky Papa]

Re: tapes.

Somebody having a number of tapes* doesn't mean that they are in possession of other parties besides the FSB. And unlike the CIA and the NSA, the FSB is not known for being leaky, unless said leaks work in their favour. I wouldn't count on them being released/leaked unless somebody other than Russia has them.



*doesn't even have to be sexual tapes at all to be incriminatory or damaging.

Can you please explain what's wrong with "whataboutism" in the context of powerful state actors committing crimes against eachother? How is it different from just providing broader historical/political context?

It's a fallacy. Fallacies have no use in a sincere conversation.

 

[digdug2k]

Don't forget about the e-mails either

I love that the baby we had on stage today bitching about how the meanies in the news are spreading rumors about him is literally the guy who ran the entire birther movement for a decade. And the GOP is behind him. "Hey guys, we need to be careful and verify this stuff before we talk about it in the press! We don't want to say something mean about someone that's not true. People have a hard time telling what's true or not. Lets all be super careful. Now I'm just going to head over here and print some more of these 'Obama and Hillary eat babies' pamphlets. That shits fine. Everyone knows its just rhetoric I say to get elected. They realize I'm a complete idiot and liar. Its all good. But God news people, stop saying mean stuff about me".

 

[faisal233]

We'll see. I mean I don't doubt it, but we heard this during pussygate about there being more audio out there that never got released.

During pussygate we all thought he was going to lose and he didn't openly promise to scatter the CIA to irrelevance.

Live by the leak, die by the leak.

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

LEAK

THE

TAPES

The tapes are irrelevant.

 

[Reeks]

Even if there are Trump sex tapes...So What???
What have these got to do with anything?

Exposure of extramarital affairs have historically (and consistently so) ablated political careers, especially if named affairs are deemed improper.

 

[jelly]

The deep state is the institutional element of the government. A lot of people don't often get kicked out of their jobs when a new administration comes in, just the guys at the top. So the deep state are the ones who are around forever.

So, they've decided to go against Trump and do everything possible to kick him out or even get the job on the 20th?

 

[Boke1879]

Does it matter? Its earth-shattering. Everyone who thinks otherwise just really hates Trump to the point of being willing to believe fantastical claims about him. Thats part of why it reminds me of pizzagate. People hated Hillary so much they were ready to believe the worst about her. We should be just as discerning even when its the guy we don't like.

I mean either way it's treasonous as fuck. SO it's not like pizzagate because if true it's treason.

Pizzagate was BS from the start and anyone who tried to peddle that or wants to associate the two is out of their damn mind.


On another note. The CNN report has sparked that this is going to be the main story for a few days and into the weekend. Everyone is going to try and get the scoop and are talking to their sources.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Even if Trump makes it through this story, the intelligence community (and it is a community) will be against him the rest of the way. I cannot fathom how he conceived this as a tenable strategy.

He probably feels invincible with his giant mob of angry brain deads.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Trump refused to answer a question from the press which is unprecedented and called CNN fake news, without correctly even pointing out what he disagreed with as far as CNNs reporting.

Yeah, the "victim" sort of does have to disprove CNNs allegations if he's going to behave like that.

Trump didn't really answer any questions properly. He either deliberately or stupidly got sidetracked by something then continued no matter whether it was related to the question or not.

 

[smokeymicpot]

I hope tapes aren't the new e-mails.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

I can't wait for the film adaptation of all this.

 

[faisal233]

Re: tapes.

Somebody having a number of tapes* doesn't mean that they are in possession of other parties besides the FSB. And unlike the CIA and the NSA, the FSB is not known for being leaky, unless said leaks work in their favour. I wouldn't count on them being released/leaked unless somebody other than Russia has them.



*doesn't even have to be sexual tapes at all to be incriminatory or damaging.

You are right, but I doubt those tapes were highly guarded secrets of the FSB back when Trump was just another compromised businessman.

 

[Truant]

The tapes are irrelevant.

If the tapes leak, this shit will reach everyone. Not just people interested in this case. It'll reach the true mainstream.

 

[Androidsleeps]

What the fuck is happening!!

 

[Oersted]

Trump last week: hey fuck you guys
Intelligence Community *looking up*: Oh really

To think we saw a future President openly fight multiple Intelligence Agencies.

Such a strange time.

 

[Sweeney Tom]

LEAK

THE

TAPES

Poor choice of words

 

[gutshot]

New article by John Schindler former NSA officer (@20committee)

http://observer.com/2017/01/donald-trump-press-conference-prague-michael-cohen/

This was a good read. Especially this part.

There is a darker possibility, however—namely that the dossier was leaked to muddy the waters, perhaps even to distract from even more troubling information about Trump’s ties to the Kremlin.

Russian intelligence calls this provokatsiya—provocation—and it’s as commonplace as kompromat in their ranks. This wouldn’t be the first time that Kremlin spies leaked secret information, partly true, to throw spies and journalists off the real trail. “It would be what I’d do,” explained a former KGB senior officer whom I’ve known for years. Possessing long experience with provocation against Western governments, my friend added how Russian spies would approach this: “I would certainly let the media know some of what we have on Trump, to confuse reporters, and also to let the new president know we can take him down at any time, so he better do what Moscow wants.”

mindblown.gif