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Retro AV Club Thread 2: Classic Gaming Done Right!

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D

dubc35

Member
Woot, I got my RGB modded NES back from baphomet yesterday! Thanks man!

mother of god.jpg!

We've all seen the pictures but in motion it's so much cleaner. The composite shimmer in Contra and Castlevania is completely gone. I can't wait to spend more time playing it!
 
B

bluenote

Neo Member
dubc35 said:
Woot, I got my RGB modded NES back from baphomet yesterday! Thanks man!

mother of god.jpg!

We've all seen the pictures but in motion it's so much cleaner. The composite shimmer in Contra and Castlevania is completely gone. I can't wait to spend more time playing it!
Click to expand...

I got my NES RGB modded last year, and this was the biggest thing I noticed too. That the shimmering was completely gone. Love it!
 
B

Barrel Cannon

Member
socksfelloff said:
As a man married to a women who wasn't blessed by the breast goddess I'll take a pair of E or F cups wrapped around my head anyday.
Click to expand...

^^^ROFL.

Yesterday my neighbours came over to come play games with me and my sis. We haven't played in ages together and they decided they wanted to play Halo 1. We system linked 2 consoles and put 1 player on the PVM and 4 on my much larger DLP TV. It was still so sharp on the PVM despite being 480i that my neighbours were pretty blown away by the image. Made me sort of reconsider the whole idea of buying a new CRT setup. It's weird how just yesterday I was gunning to get a PC CRT monitor with component-to-VGA converter for the Xbox to be able to play in 480p and now I'm considering just sticking with the PVM for it and attempting what bodine suggested instead.

dubc35 said:
Woot, I got my RGB modded NES back from baphomet yesterday! Thanks man!

mother of god.jpg!

We've all seen the pictures but in motion it's so much cleaner. The composite shimmer in Contra and Castlevania is completely gone. I can't wait to spend more time playing it!
Click to expand...

Congrats! We need screenshots of it's glory!
 
P

Peltz

Member
Barrel Cannon said:
Yesterday my neighbours came over to come play games with me and my sis. We haven't played in ages together and they decided they wanted to play Halo 1. We system linked 2 consoles and put 1 player on the PVM and 4 on my much larger DLP TV. It was still so sharp on the PVM despite being 480i that my neighbours were pretty blown away by the image. Made me sort of reconsider the whole idea of buying a new CRT setup. It's weird how just yesterday I was gunning to get a PC CRT monitor with component-to-VGA converter for the Xbox to be able to play in 480p and now I'm considering just sticking with the PVM for it and attempting what bodine suggested instead.
Click to expand...

As someone who was playing games on GCN, Wii, PS2, Dreamcast and Xbox in 480i for years on a PVM up until this week when I played them in 480p native for the first time, let me tell you, the jump is worth it.

Remember the jump from SD to HD? It really is just like that if you can find a CRT that can do 480p native (not scaled mind you). It would make a huge difference especially for a game like Halo - in 30fps, panning the camera in that game causes a shitload of combing artifacts in 480i on a PVM. Now don't get me wrong, it still looks fantastic, but all of that interlaced shimmering is fatiguing your eyes and ruining the image in ways that will seem clear after you upgrade.

I'm not saying you have to run out and buy yourself a very expensive HD broadcast monitor or anything, but don't give up the search for at least an affordable solution either. VGA CRT monitors can be had for very cheap if you keep searching and get lucky - even in non urban areas. And then the price of converting from Component to VGA is merely $85. The whole upgrade could cost as little as $100 dollars or so. And when you think about all of the amazing content that is locked away in that awkward 480p resolution: Dreamcast, GCN, Xbox, Wii, many PS2 games, millions of DVDs, and even some arcade hardware, you owe it to yourself to have a setup that can take advantage of it if you can find it for the right price.

So, I say, don't rush to upgrade, but don't give up the search completely. Check in every now and then to see if the right VGA monitor is for sale and jump on it when you can.
 
socksfelloff

socksfelloff

Member
I play 480p on a high end 22"nec crt monitor and it's fantastic but having to keep a separate monitor just for that has always made me search for the capable pvms.


Side note : you can play 240p on a VGA monitor and it looks really good but it's not possible with original hardware.


Edit: here's ALTTP running @ 240p on a 31khz/VGA crt
swiqzy.jpg
Click to expand...
 
B

bobble

Member
socksfelloff said:
I play 480p on a high end 22"nec crt monitor and it's fantastic but having to keep a separate monitor just for that has always made me search for the capable pvms.


Side note : you can play 240p on a VGA monitor and it looks really good but it's not possible with original hardware.


Edit: here's ALTTP running @ 240p on a 31khz/VGA crt
Click to expand...

If it's not original hardware, what is it running on / through?
 
Kawika

Kawika

Member
Peltz said:
As someone who was playing games on GCN, Wii, PS2, Dreamcast and Xbox in 480i for years on a PVM up until this week when I played them in 480p native for the first time, let me tell you, the jump is worth it.

Remember the jump from SD to HD? It really is just like that if you can find a CRT that can do 480p native (not scaled mind you). It would make a huge difference especially for a game like Halo - in 30fps, panning the camera in that game causes a shitload of combing artifacts in 480i on a PVM. Now don't get me wrong, it still looks fantastic, but all of that interlaced shimmering is fatiguing your eyes and ruining the image in ways that will seem clear after you upgrade.

I'm not saying you have to run out and buy yourself a very expensive HD broadcast monitor or anything, but don't give up the search for at least an affordable solution either. VGA CRT monitors can be had for very cheap if you keep searching and get lucky - even in non urban areas. And then the price of converting from Component to VGA is merely $85. The whole upgrade could cost as little as $100 dollars or so. And when you think about all of the amazing content that is locked away in that awkward 480p resolution: Dreamcast, GCN, Xbox, Wii, many PS2 games, millions of DVDs, and even some arcade hardware, you owe it to yourself to have a setup that can take advantage of it if you can find it for the right price.

So, I say, don't rush to upgrade, but don't give up the search completely. Check in every now and then to see if the right VGA monitor is for sale and jump on it when you can.
Click to expand...

Every time I come to share how much I am enjoying my 20L5 you post almost exactly what I want to say. So now I am here reading you talk about something I was thinking about posting and feeling the exact same way because I was just thinking about how I was playing on 480i for years.

That said, I had a cheapy Male to Male scart that I was using to adapt my component to scart adapter I scored from retrorgb when he sent it to another vendor. Whatever, the damn thing is awesome at saving space and hassle of making space for an extron or putting in a component card for the 20L5. I bought a Kable direct 6' scart cable from Amazon and immediately ordered another one to go into my OSSC/Framemeister.

Now my component games look even more amazing. I don't see any visual difference between direct connect from my gamecube/ps2/etc and component inputs connected to this kabel direct scart cable.


Also I found this hilarious

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/video-games/retro-gaming/pcmcat1500927006607.c?id=pcmcat1500927006607 best buy has a retro gaming portion of the site that only has new "retro"
 
P

Peltz

Member
Kawika said:
Every time I come to share how much I am enjoying my 20L5 you post almost exactly what I want to say. So now I am here reading you talk about something I was thinking about posting and feeling the exact same way because I was just thinking about how I was playing on 480i for years.

That said, I had a cheapy Male to Male scart that I was using to adapt my component to scart adapter I scored from retrorgb when he sent it to another vendor. Whatever, the damn thing is awesome at saving space and hassle of making space for an extron or putting in a component card for the 20L5. I bought a Kable direct 6' scart cable from Amazon and immediately ordered another one to go into my OSSC/Framemeister.

Now my component games look even more amazing. I don't see any visual difference between direct connect from my gamecube/ps2/etc and component inputs connected to this kabel direct scart cable.


Also I found this hilarious

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/video-games/retro-gaming/pcmcat1500927006607.c?id=pcmcat1500927006607 best buy has a retro gaming portion of the site that only has new "retro"
Click to expand...

I just ordered a BNC matrix switch to toggle between component and SCART systems, and also to output to 5 different displays depending on my mood. I'm done hooking up my systems one at a time like a caveman.
 
Danny Dudekisser

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Oh, cool, I can finally use the gscartsw. And my new Mega Drive. And actually... any of my old systems, since I sold the JP21 cables I had.

NWEOjtL.jpg
 
baphomet

baphomet

Member
dubc35 said:
Woot, I got my RGB modded NES back from baphomet yesterday! Thanks man!

mother of god.jpg!

We've all seen the pictures but in motion it's so much cleaner. The composite shimmer in Contra and Castlevania is completely gone. I can't wait to spend more time playing it!
Click to expand...

Glad you're enjoying it!
 
bodine1231

bodine1231

Member
_SAKY_ said:
Oh man, more?!?!
Click to expand...

The quote was twelve 20" and "a lot of smaller ones". I think the smaller ones are 9" though and a few 14" but I'll still take them,all Ikegami. The owner says he doesnt know if they work and that they've been sitting in a warehouse but for the price ($50) its worth the risk. I also have to take all their old computer monitors too but I'll find something to do with those. We'll see,I have to go pick it all up next Thursday,gonna be another long day of driving.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Anyone have a suggestion for raising a PVM to a more desirable viewing point?

I have it sitting on a glass entertainment shelf and would like a second smaller glass/metal style shelf to set it on. It's 31kg, however, and most smaller stands really aren't designed to take the weight!
 
R

Rirse

Neo Member
When I get mine in next week I plan on sticking a old VCR under it. Not ever hooking it up to use it (well might once to see how it looks) but as a way to raise it up.
 
linko9

linko9

Member
dark10x said:
Anyone have a suggestion for raising a PVM to a more desirable viewing point?

I have it sitting on a glass entertainment shelf and would like a second smaller glass/metal style shelf to set it on. It's 31kg, however, and most smaller stands really aren't designed to take the weight!
Click to expand...

I personally use a metal utility shelf for my 14". This is the one I use:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CL91YIA/?tag=neogaf0e-20

But this larger one might be more appropriate for a larger set, rated for 250 lbs per shelf:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005FW1WLO/?tag=neogaf0e-20

They're fully adjustable, so you can put it at whatever height you want. I use the lower shelves to store my arcades sticks.
 
P

Peltz

Member
dark10x said:
Anyone have a suggestion for raising a PVM to a more desirable viewing point?

I have it sitting on a glass entertainment shelf and would like a second smaller glass/metal style shelf to set it on. It's 31kg, however, and most smaller stands really aren't designed to take the weight!
Click to expand...
Can we get a picture? It'll make suggesting something easier
 
bodine1231

bodine1231

Member
dark10x said:
Here's how it looks.


The stand simply sits a little low for my tastes. I'd like something that looks nice and blends in with the stand that simply raises the display 8-10 inches or so.
Click to expand...

Just stack like 4 BKM's underneath it,lol. I just use cheap $40 square cube shelves from Walmart,the height is perfect and you can fit the consoles underneath. I have the 8 cube version pictured which was under $100 at Wallyworld. They also have the matching shelves as you see to the left if you need more. Three different colors I think.

21GdWIC.jpg
 
N

New002

Member
Noob question(s) incoming. I picked up a PVM last year. My first one and I have nothing to compare it to. I was playing on it today and coming back to it after a few months, and the blacks looked very washed out to me. More like a dark grey. What's the black level supposed to be like on these? It's tough to tell through youtube videos but I'm seeing what appears to be really deep and rich blacks on similar sets. What should my expectation be here?
 
N

New002

Member
alr1ght said:
Blacks should be black
Click to expand...

That's what's I figured. Hmmm. I wonder if it's just old age/use. I definitely don't have the skillset to go tinkering with the inside of this thing. Are there any settings/values in the service menu that can be tweaked to address this?
 
socksfelloff

socksfelloff

Member
New002 said:
That's what's I figured. Hmmm. I wonder if it's just old age/use. I definitely don't have the skillset to go tinkering with the inside of this thing. Are there any settings/values in the service menu that can be tweaked to address this?
Click to expand...


Check your brightness/ contrast
 
P

Pancakes R Us

Member
Can anyone recommend a goood scart to HDMI adaptor? I want to hook up my GameCube to my LG B6, which doesn't have a scart socket. I have an RGB scart cable, so keen to see how GC games look on this...without dropping £200 on scart cables or risking my GC with an HDMI mode just yet.

Thanks.
 
N

New002

Member
socksfelloff said:
Check your brightness/ contrast
Click to expand...

Yeah those are the first things I tweaked using the adjustment knobs on the front. The set came with brightness at the halfway mark, which seems to be what others online had it set at.

When viewing a solid black background with brightness @ 50, I see a greyish screen with visible scanlines.

With brightness @ 0 the scanlines disappear and the screen changes to a solid, darker grey. I'd say this is maybe a 90% tint of black? Tough to express.

There's a thin black bezel around the monitor, and if we're talking black levels where the screen melts into that bezel, this isn't there, and only gets close with brightness set to its lowest value.
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Pancakes R Us said:
Can anyone recommend a goood scart to HDMI adaptor? I want to hook up my GameCube to my LG B6, which doesn't have a scart socket. I have an RGB scart cable, so keen to see how GC games look on this...without dropping £200 on scart cables or risking my GC with an HDMI mode just yet.
Click to expand...

The B6 doesn't have an input for RGB; only for composite and component. A simple adapter could only feed the GameCube's composite signal to the TV. I hooked up my GameCube to my B6 using composite, and the results weren't good.

Unfortunately, as with virtually all modern TVs, there is no cheap good solution to connect an RGB source to the B6. I am going to get an OSSC in September (~200€) to convert from RGB to HDMI. The B6 seems to be highly compatible with it so far.
 
P

Pancakes R Us

Member
ElTorro said:
The B6 doesn't have an input for RGB; only for composite and component. A simple adapter could only feed the GameCube's composite signal to the TV. I hooked up my GameCube to my B6 using composite, and the results weren't good.

Unfortunately, as with virtually all modern TVs, there is no cheap good solution to connect an RGB source to the B6. I am going to get an OSSC in September (~200€) to convert from RGB to HDMI. The B6 seems to be highly compatible with it so far.
Click to expand...
Yep, that's why I'm after a scart to HDMI adaptor so I can hoot it up to the adaptor and then to the TV. That should work, right?
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Pancakes R Us said:
Yep, that's why I'm after a scart to HDMI adaptor so I can hoot it up to the adaptor and then to the TV. That should work, right?
Click to expand...

That's what I was talking about. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. The cheapest good RGB-to-HDMI converter is the OSSC for ~$225. The next batch of them will be ready to ship in October.

To my knowledge, there aren't any other converters that are cheap and decent.

A simple cheap adapter will only allow you to connect the composite signal of your SCART cable to your B6, but not the RGB signal. (SCART cables can carry many different signals. Composite and RGB are among them, but composite is far worse than RGB.) And the video quality of composite on a TV like the B6 is rather poor.
 
T

Triforce141

Member
Has anyone tried using connecting the OSSC with a generic scaler to see if it'll normalize the signal for (S)NES and make it work on incompatible TVs / monitors?

I think the Framemeister could do something similar
 
Danny Dudekisser

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
I installed the newest firmware on the OSSC, and was disappointed to see that I still can't use anything above line2x on my main TV. Oh well. It's good enough for now.
 
P

Pancakes R Us

Member
ElTorro said:
That's what I was talking about. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. The cheapest good RGB-to-HDMI converter is the OSSC for ~$225. The next batch of them will be ready to ship in October.

To my knowledge, there aren't any other converters that are cheap and decent.

A simple cheap adapter will only allow you to connect the composite signal of your SCART cable to your B6, but not the RGB signal. (SCART cables can carry many different signals. Composite and RGB are among them, but composite is far worse than RGB.) And the video quality of composite on a TV like the B6 is rather poor.
Click to expand...
Oh right - thanks for the explanation, good to know. I read up a little on it earlier, piece seemed to insinuate that the OSSC isn't noob friendly in terms of menus/changing settings. Do you have any experience of it?
 
G

grendelrt

Member
Got Sonic Mania running on my PVM, had to add a custom resolution of 424x240 to get it properly scaled. I do have a widescreen mode, so I tried those, it gets the aspect back correct, but I dont mind the picture stretched too much during gameplay (the scanlines look much nicer).

Widescreen mode vs Stretched
YXTjXKb.jpg

smFjPVj.jpg


0MK2EEv.jpg

Oublh6c.jpg
 
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