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[Bojji]

Sounds very unoptimized.

It is. It takes awful amount of power for game that looks like it targeted level of graphics between PS3 and PS4.

I take issue with this rhetorical question because it shifts the burden from the developer to the hardware. Callisto Protocol runs at close to 4K internally and can reconstruct to 8K and maintain 30fps. It can also do 1440p upscaled to 4K and maintain 60fps on the Pro while looking FAR better than Monster Hunter Wilds. Same for Demon's Souls.

This game is a technical mess. There's no way around it. Don't blame the hardware for that one.

I totally blame developers here. Engine is a mess - no one knows where all this gpu power goes. Plus they have stupid targets for IQ/performance, they should target decent IQ with base PS5 version in performance mode and THEN make everything else around that. Same mistake with SE and Rebirth on PS5.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I'm convinced the only reason we don't have LFC on PS5 is because Sony TVs don't support it and if that's correct, it's the worst possible reason.

The number of people this would actually effect in a negative way is minimal.

Have Sony Electronics add it to future TVs moving forward, problem is largely solved.

 

[Gaiff]

Watching the DF Early Access PC performance video and it now makes sense why they didn't compare base PS5 or Pro to similar spec PC...

DD2 all over again where it's basically impossible to maintain a stable 60fps even with a 9800X3D+5090 running at 1080p?

It is. It takes awful amount of power for game that looks like it targeted level of graphics between PS3 and PS4.



I totally blame developers here. Engine is a mess - no one knows where all this gpu power goes. Plus they have stupid targets for IQ/performance, they should target decent IQ with base PS5 version in performance mode and THEN make everything else around that. Same mistake with SE and Rebirth on PS5.

Then why are you asking if he expected an 800 euros console to run this game at 1080p with AA? With enough incompetence, a dev could struggle to run Super Mario 64 on a modern PC. I'm barely exaggerating.

This is weird, the beta didn't run especially bad for me besides the village area, Even on my 2080 Ti, it was decent. I've seen much worse, but the full release seems to be a real mess.

 

[adamsapple]

I'm convinced the only reason we don't have LFC on PS5 is because Sony TVs don't support it and if that's correct, it's the worst possible reason.

If that turns out to be the real reason, it's a dumb reason lol.

But I don't think any Sony TV have 1440p support, yet they relented and added it to PS5, so there's hope.

 

[Crayon]

I ain't upgrading anything on account of a game that runs like this.

 

[Mr Moose]

There is no reason for it to run badly and look the way it does. What the fuck are they doing? I set the benchmark to 720p and set it to lowest setting (uses DLSS performance) and it still ran like dog shit especially when entering the little village part (in the 40s).
I know my PC isn't great, but fucking hell.

 

[Gaiff]

There is no reason for it to run badly and look the way it does. What the fuck are they doing? I set the benchmark to 720p and set it to lowest setting (uses DLSS performance) and it still ran like dog shit especially when entering the little village part (in the 40s).
I know my PC isn't great, but fucking hell.

Have you checked the GPU usage? I think it's really poorly threaded and as such, even a decent CPU will run horribly. Doesn't matter what GPU you have or the resolution. If the CPU cannot do the job, res scaling and DLSS won't help.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

If that turns out to be the real reason, it's a dumb reason lol.

But I don't think any Sony TV have 1440p support, yet they relented and added it to PS5, so there's hope.

Sony TVs don't support 1440p, but I don't think they added 1440p for TV support but rather for monitors and Sony does sell monitors (Inzone)

I would not be at all surprised if this is the reason why there is no LFC. It's an AMD chipset, so why wouldn't it be able to support LFC? AMD Freesync has been around since 2015, there's no way it was simply overlooked with the PS5's design. Even the Xbox One supports it.

Initially, Sony marketed their TVs as "ready for PS5" and then "Perfect for PS5".

There's no doubt some collaboration there and we didn't even get VRR until Sony TVs started supporting them.

 

[ChiefDada]

DD2 all over again where it's basically impossible to maintain a stable 60fps even with a 9800X3D+5090 running at 1080p?

Not that bad I dont think but there is significant texture streaming/DirectStorage issues that will affect all PC builds to a certain extent.

 

[Bojji]

Why are you bringing up the console again?

Did I expect a $4000 PC to run the game into the 40fps as well?

No

Native 4k?

I'm convinced the only reason we don't have LFC on PS5 is because Sony TVs don't support it and if that's correct, it's the worst possible reason.

The number of people this would actually effect in a negative way is minimal.

Have Sony Electronics add it to future TVs moving forward, problem is largely solved.

Sony games have LFC implemented. It's just laziness of Capcom + lack of OS level settings on PS5 (this one is on Sony).

DD2 all over again where it's basically impossible to maintain a stable 60fps even with a 9800X3D+5090 running at 1080p?

Then why are you asking if he expected an 800 euros console to run this game at 1080p with AA? With enough incompetence, a dev could struggle to run Super Mario 64 on a modern PC. I'm barely exaggerating.

This is weird, the beta didn't run especially bad for me besides the village area, Even on my 2080 Ti, it was decent. I've seen much worse, but the full release seems to be a real mess.

I want people to stop talking like Pro version is any good. All version are shit, 1080p image quality from 800 Euro console is laughable and it should never happen unless game is doing some demanding RT or something.

 

[poppabk]

running these games at a lower base resolution is literally the point of these Ai techniques. Very few people with $2000 GPUs that are going to burn their house down are playing games at native res.

Isn't the 1080p the output resolution in framerate mode?

 

[viveks86]

Watching the DF Early Access PC performance video and it now makes sense why they didn't compare base PS5 or Pro to similar spec PC...

When will this be out for us plebs? Tomorrow?

 

[Bojji]

Isn't the 1080p the output resolution in framerate mode?

It's both native and output.

 

[ChiefDada]

When will this out for us plebs? Tomorrow?

 Today. Probably within the hour I would guess.

 

[viveks86]

 Today. Probably within the hour I would guess.

Can't wait for the meltdowns!

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I want people to stop talking like Pro version is any good.

Relative to the other consoles it’s an improvement, and makes a locked 60 fps not look atrocious

It’s doing what it’s supposed to

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Sony games have LFC implemented. It's just laziness of Capcom + lack of OS level settings on PS5 (this one is on Sony).

Laziness is a word people use when they don't understand resource management.

What makes more sense, every studio implementing LFC in their games or Sony implementing it at an OS level and devs being able to focus on other things? Again, if the reason why they won't do that is because of Sony TVs, it's really foolish.

 

[yogaflame]

Native 4k?



Sony games have LFC implemented. It's just laziness of Capcom + lack of OS level settings on PS5 (this one is on Sony).



I want people to stop talking like Pro version is any good. All version are shit, 1080p image quality from 800 Euro console is laughable and it should never happen unless game is doing some demanding RT or something.

For me its the choice of engine the real issue of Capcom. If it was Decima engine and if this was a Ps5 exclusive, I'm sure it is fully optimize on both Ps5 and Ps5 pro. The choice of Capcom for engine and even FSR1 is for compatibility, reduce cost, and easy development for multiplatforms.

But for me, if your not nit picky, it's already decent. Even in Ps5 base from what I saw on YouTube reviews there are still great level and character designs, allot of effects like weather and night and day mode, and most important it is playable and those technical issues will not affect the game play. For me, I'm looking forward for excellent gameplay, tactics and story. The Ps5 pro upgrade is actually good and its just a first update same goes to base ps5. The game will run better in the future.

 

[viveks86]

I want people to stop talking like Pro version is any good. All version are shit.

But all shit are not made equal. If all we get is shit, all we can do is see which doo doo is the best doo doo. Let's wait for the PC findings to figure out value for money.

 

[SonGoku]

not buying base Sony consoles anymore thats for sure, locking better tech to the pro version is such a bad practice imo, its like Nvidia with their DLSS

Im sure they could have released a RX6800 with 7800XT level RT back in 2020 for $500
You wont find me defending the pro (i think its overpriced poor value), that said the idea Sony could sell all that for $500 back in 2020 is ridiculous. You would be looking at a $1000 console

 

[Bojji]

Relative to the other consoles it’s an improvement, and makes a locked 60 fps not look atrocious

It’s doing what it’s supposed to

It has image quality of base PS4 game. Is that impressive?

Laziness is a word people use when they don't understand resource management.

What makes more sense, every studio implementing LFC in their games or Sony implementing it at an OS level and devs being able to focus on other things? Again, if the reason why they won't do that is because of Sony TVs, it's really foolish.

It's pure laziness and fucked up priorities. LFC flag in SDK is there for almost 3 years now. Metahphor defaults to 120Hz and also don't support LFC, but Atlus are tech disabled so this was expected. Capcom seemed to have their tech under control, at least that was the case before DD2 launch.

But all shit are not made equal. If all we get is shit, all we can do is see which doo doo is the best doo doo. Let's wait for the PC findings to figure out value for money.

Pro is the best console version but it's still nowhere near how it SHOULD look. Game is not doing any RT or anything super heavy that justifies how demanding it is. DD2 on Pro is much more impressive, it has better IQ and RTGI...

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It has image quality of base PS4 game. Is that impressive?

The game is not impressive looking, but the only way to play a competent 60 fps mode that doesn’t look awful on consoles is with the Pro

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It's pure laziness and fucked up priorities. LFC flag in SDK is there for almost 3 years now. Metahphor defaults to 120Hz and also don't support LFC, but Atlus are tech disabled so this was expected. Capcom seemed to have their tech under control, at least that was the case before DD2 launch.

How much time does it take to implement LFC? How much QA work?

How many gamers have TVs that support LFC? What percent especially in Japan?

 

[viveks86]

Pro is the best console version but it's still nowhere near how it SHOULD look. Game is not doing any RT or anything super heavy that justifies how demanding it is. DD2 on Pro is much more impressive, it has better IQ and RTGI...

We can agree on all that. But that's a capcom problem right? What's the point questioning the money spent on the Pro? Based on ChiefDada 's hint, it seems like it scales poorly to higher end PCs as well. Are you going to bring up the cost of GPUs and high end rigs as well? If you do, then at least your efforts would be fair, even if it all seems a bit futile.

 

[Bojji]

How much time does it take to implement LFC? How much QA work?

How many gamers have TVs that support LFC? What percent especially in Japan?

More and more? This shit done on OS/driver level on Xbox and PC, Sony fucked up by not implementing it on system level and relying on devs (always their biggest mistake, since PS3). Capcom fucked up as a dev.

We can agree on all that. But that's a capcom problem right? What's the point questioning the money spent on the Pro? Based on ChiefDada 's hint, it seems like it scales poorly to higher end PCs as well. Are you going to bring up the cost of GPUs and high end rigs as well? If you do, then at least your efforts would be fair, even if it all seems a bit futile.

You can have MUCH better image quality in this game using nvidia GPU and DLSS3/4. On Pro you are stuck with base PS4 level of IQ.

PC with DLSS4 and 1080p internal res:

Pro version should be 4k with PSSR reconstruction. But Capcom can't optimize so game is too demanding for that....

 

[Mibu no ookami]

More and more? This shit done on OS/driver level on Xbox and PC, Sony fucked up by not implementing it on system level and relying on devs (always their biggest mistake, since PS3). Capcom fucked up as a dev.

It makes sense more on a system level than it does on an individual game level.

The lack of LFC has no real baring on Monster Hunter Wilds sales. Do you think otherwise? How many people would buy MHWilds if it had LFC but won't because it doesn't?

I'm guessing less than 20,000 gamers.

You look at the hierarchy of things, the number of people who own or want a PS5, the percent of those people who have a 4KTV, the percent of those people who want Monster Hunter Wilds, the percent of those people who have 4KTVs that support LFC, the percent of those gamers for which LFC is a deal breaker.

 

[yamaci17]

More and more? This shit done on OS/driver level on Xbox and PC, Sony fucked up by not implementing it on system level and relying on devs (always their biggest mistake, since PS3). Capcom fucked up as a dev.



You can have MUCH better image quality in this game using nvidia GPU and DLSS3/4. On Pro you are stuck with base PS4 level of IQ.

PC with DLSS4 and 1080p internal res:

Pro version should be 4k with PSSR reconstruction. But Capcom can't optimize so game is too demanding for that....

I'm sure 1440p dlss 4 performance would end up having much much higher image quality than ps5 pro for now

 

[adamsapple]

It makes sense more on a system level than it does on an individual game level.

The lack of LFC has no real baring on Monster Hunter Wilds sales. Do you think otherwise? How many people would buy MHWilds if it had LFC but won't because it doesn't?

I'm guessing less than 20,000 gamers.

You look at the hierarchy of things, the number of people who own or want a PS5, the percent of those people who have a 4KTV, the percent of those people who want Monster Hunter Wilds, the percent of those people who have 4KTVs that support LFC, the percent of those gamers for which LFC is a deal breaker.

LFC is not a sales check point, it would be a nice feature to have especially since there is hardware level support for it, developers have added LFC to games themselves in the PS versions where it's taken care of on a system level on the Xbox.

There's no negatives to having it for any PS5 owner, whether they have a compatible display or not.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

LFC is not a sales check point, it would be a nice feature to have especially since there is hardware level support for it, developers have added LFC to games themselves in the PS versions where it's taken care of on a system level on the Xbox.

There's no negatives to having it for any PS5 owner, whether they have a compatible display or not.

A lot of you seem to really struggle with things like this.

LFC is great, no one is debating that. Even Cerny says they're looking into options.

The question is whether Capcom "fucked up" by not having it.

In what way did they "fuck up"? Usually when you "fuck up" there are consequences. What are the consequences to Capcom specifically of not having LFC in Monster Hunter specifically?

This is a Sony problem more than a Capcom problem.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Mmmh yes? Capcom? What the fuck are those reflections?

 

[SweetTooth]

Bojji is working overtime I see

 

[Bojji]

I'm sure 1440p dlss 4 performance would end up having much much higher image quality than ps5 pro for now

It should.

A lot of you seem to really struggle with things like this.

LFC is great, no one is debating that. Even Cerny says they're looking into options.

The question is whether Capcom "fucked up" by not having it.

In what way did they "fuck up"? Usually when you "fuck up" there are consequences. What are the consequences to Capcom specifically of not having LFC in Monster Hunter specifically?

This is a Sony problem more than a Capcom problem.

They fucked up by enabling options to uncap low framerate modes and NOT IMPLEMENTING LFC at the same time. Those modes are uslesess without LFC.

Don't give players that options or enable LFC. I'm sure it will be patched but of course we don't know when.

Mmmh yes? Capcom? What the fuck are those reflections?

This is their high quality RT! Still looks much better than SSR.

 

[adamsapple]

This is a Sony problem more than a Capcom problem.

That's quite literally what my last couple of posts are saying, this should be a system level thing, it shouldn't be a guessing game whether a developer adds it in or not. Xbox's way of handling this is so much simpler yet effective.

You need to tone down this holier than thou attitude with your commentary on things what other users do or don't understand, lol.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

That's quite literally what my last couple of posts are saying, this should be a system level thing, it shouldn't be a guessing game whether a developer adds it in or not. Xbox's way of handling this is so much simpler yet effective.

You need to tone down this holier than thou attitude with your commentary on things what other users do or don't understand, lol.

as you continue to ignore bojji saying capcom fucked up lol

 

[adamsapple]

as you continue to ignore bojji saying capcom fucked up lol

I'm replying to your posts, not Bojji's.

120hz support should be a system level thing, not game dependent, it would solve this whole issue instantly.

 

[TintoConCasera]

This is their high quality RT! Still looks much better than SSR.

Check out those sick reflections on Freedom Unite

What the fuck man. Like yeah I get it, it's a static .jpg upside-down, but still. Even Rise had better and more believable reflections.

I sure hope Capcom get's their shit together when it comes to tech.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

There is no reason for it to run badly and look the way it does. What the fuck are they doing? I set the benchmark to 720p and set it to lowest setting (uses DLSS performance) and it still ran like dog shit especially when entering the little village part (in the 40s).
I know my PC isn't great, but fucking hell.

If your performance tanks when you reach the village it means you're out of VRAM

Lower the texture setting and try again

The VRAM usage meter in the upper right corner is extremely inaccurate, it says you're fine but you're actually not

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I'm replying to your posts, not Bojji's.

120hz support should be a system level thing, not game dependent, it would solve this whole issue instantly.

Yeah and we know why

 

[Mr Moose]

If your performance tanks when you reach the village it means you're out of VRAM

Lower the texture setting and try again

The VRAM usage meter in the upper right corner is extremely inaccurate, it says you're fine but you're actually not

I have 12GB VRAM, if it's going over that at 720p/lowest setting with DLSS performance then they've fucked up somewhere. I'll open Afterburner and check.

 

[ChiefDada]

You can have MUCH better image quality in this game using nvidia GPU and DLSS3/4.

Which Nvidia GPU? What settings? At what framerate?

On Pro you are stuck with base PS4 level of IQ.

PC with DLSS4 and 1080p internal res:

Alex tested both the 4060 and 4070 at 1440p DLSS balanced. PS5 Pro is running at 1080p internal resolution with PSSR Anti-Aliasing, per Oliver guess. As it stands, PS5 Pro is neck and neck if not edging out the 4070 primarily because of streaming issues on PC side. The 4070 doesn't have the power to handle decompression and simultaneously perform as it's expected to against PS5 Pro.

Alex didn't even bother to test higher end cards apparently he was too depressed by what he was seeing lol. He refused to offer "optimized settings" because they would be too low/too many sacrifices. Lol I'm not kidding that's what he said.

 

[adamsapple]

Yeah and we know why

You really are a special one, aren't you.

Even Bojji said the same thing just a few posts above, while adding that Capcom also fucked up by un-capping the frame rate but not implementing LFC on a software level, which is a 100% true statement.

More and more? This shit done on OS/driver level on Xbox and PC, Sony fucked up by not implementing it on system level and relying on devs (always their biggest mistake, since PS3). Capcom fucked up as a dev.

You've really let this conspiracy stuff rot your brain.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I have 12GB VRAM, if it's going over that at 720p/lowest setting with DLSS performance then they've fucked up somewhere. I'll open Afterburner and check.

You have a 3080 Ti?

I will say something is fucked with the way the game manages it's VRAM pool, I have a laptop with a 3070 (8 GB VRAM) and it always dies when it reaches the village, same problem you noticed. On my desktop with a 3090, there's a moment of hitching when it reaches the village, probably just loading assets, then it's 50+ the rest of the way through. But if you need 24 GB of VRAM for it to not die then Capcpom really fucked up something in the engine somewhere and hopefully they'll patch it in the full game

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You really are a special one, aren't you.

Even Bojji said the same thing just a few posts above, while adding that Capcom also fucked up by un-capping the frame rate but not implementing LFC on a software level, which is a 100% true statement.



You've really let this conspiracy stuff rot your brain.

I pointed out that this isn't a Capcom problem. Monster Hunter by itself doesn't suffer from the lack of LFC. The PS5 family as a whole does though.

You yourself said there is no sales ramifications to it not having LFC, but rather than push back against your buddy-in-arms, you're up my shit for no reason.

You even went as far as to say, "I literally said what you're saying" so ask yourself what you're arguing with me about.

It would be great if Capcom added LFC to MHW, but they didn't "fuck" up by not doing so. It doesn't matter to them at the end of the day.

Sony fucked up and continues to do so. If anyone is impacted monetarily by the lack of LFC it's Sony as to whether people decide to play this on a PC, Xbox, or a PS.

 

[Bojji]

Check out those sick reflections on Freedom Unite

What the fuck man. Like yeah I get it, it's a static .jpg upside-down, but still. Even Rise had better and more believable reflections.

I sure hope Capcom get's their shit together when it comes to tech.

Yep. This is with SSR:

Which Nvidia GPU? What settings? At what framerate?



Alex tested both the 4060 and 4070 at 1440p DLSS balanced. PS5 Pro is running at 1080p internal resolution with PSSR Anti-Aliasing, per Oliver guess. As it stands, PS5 Pro is neck and neck if not edging out the 4070 primarily because of streaming issues on PC side. The 4070 doesn't have the power to handle decompression and simultaneously perform as it's expected to against PS5 Pro.

Alex didn't even bother to test higher end cards apparently he was too depressed by what he was seeing lol. He refused to offer "optimized settings" because they would be too low/too many sacrifices. Lol I'm not kidding that's what he said.

GPU with enough power, duh.

So it's direct storage/RTX IO issue? Or internal game streaming tech? Affects AMD cards?

Ratchet had problems with RTX IO/DS and it was easisly fixed by removing DS file from the game, lol.

 

[adamsapple]

Yep. This is with SSR:

As much as I love RE engine, the SSR on the RE engine stuff has always looked hideous right from Re2 remake almost half a decade ago.

 

[Darchaos]

Looks like shit and runs like shit, something dosent add up here.

 

[Mr Moose]

You have a 3080 Ti?

I will say something is fucked with the way the game manages it's VRAM pool, I have a laptop with a 3070 (8 GB VRAM) and it always dies when it reaches the village, same problem you noticed. On my desktop with a 3090, there's a moment of hitching when it reaches the village, probably just loading assets, then it's 50+ the rest of the way through. But if you need 24 GB of VRAM for it to not die then Capcpom really fucked up something in the engine somewhere and hopefully they'll patch it in the full game

3060. I was wrong, it's ultra performance not performance on the lowest setting. Fuck knows what internal res that is at 720p. There's something very wrong with this game.

Is it normal to have a high GPU usage at such a dog shit res/settings?

 

[Bojji]

3060. I was wrong, it's ultra performance not performance on the lowest setting. Fuck knows what internal res that is at 720p. There's something very wrong with this game.

Is it normal to have a high GPU usage at such a dog shit res/settings?

Village is CPU limited to that framerate. RE engine is horrible on CPUs on PC.

You can see that 3600 is 45FPS on PC while similar CPU in PS5 can do 60 or above in the same scene.

 

[ChiefDada]

GPU with enough power, duh.

If you understood the importance of context and relativity then you wouldn't be so comfortable typing such a ridiculous response.

 

[Bojji]

If you understood the importance of context and relativity then you wouldn't be so comfortable typing such a ridiculous response.

What? I didn't mean something like 2060 for sure.

My GPU is in raw power 50% faster than Pro in raster and can run this game no problem with 4k output and DLSS4 in 60fps (WITHOUT frame gen) + RT. I don't think something like 4070 Super should be much lower unless it's vram limited.