Damn, he's gone from constantly getting drunk to never drinking again in such a short time. That's some amazing will power.
Wait did he put any stipulations on this? Like, giving up alcohol between the hours of 10-2, Tuesdays and Thursdays?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Rob Ford: Still smoking crack. On video. Taking leave of absence.
- Thread starter Divvy
- Start date
- Status
Damn, he's gone from constantly getting drunk to never drinking again in such a short time. That's some amazing will power.
Wait did he put any stipulations on this? Like, giving up alcohol between the hours of 10-2, Tuesdays and Thursdays?
equippedwithtowel
Member
The mayor only has his executive powers because council granted them. In Ottawa IIRC the mayor has never controlled appointments and has had his budget subject to council approval; Ford is after all one vote. The province doesn't have to recognize any mayor in this capacity since they could turf him out of office if they wanted to.
The question is, do all the voters who gave him that mandate still support him? Seeing as we have no recall mechanism, there's no way to find out other than meaningless poll results.
Since council was essentially at a standstill dealing with Ford's non-stop problems, they did what they had to do to get city business running again. Otherwise, they'd be stuck with their wheels spinning until the next election. Council members are democratically elected, too, and the vast majority of them supported the motions.
ConfusingJazz
Member
Without the power to recall, impeach, or grant a motion of no confidence, what are you supposed to do when a mayor has so completely lost it? I mean, the guy could be killing hookers on the council floor (and really, at this point, would you be shocked?), and the council still wouldn't have the power to remove him from office.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Just because he's the Mayor doesn't mean he can do whatever he wants for four years. Our democratic system is in place so that councilors can take away some powers from the Mayor if he cannot be entrusted with them anymore. If City Hall, which is also democratically elected, decides the Mayor is getting in the way of functioning government, then they can take his power away.
There's an election in less than a year's time and its campaign period starts in two months, no need for two elections or having the next council rule for 5 years.
Council is a collection of democratically elected Toronto representatives who together voted as to whether or not to limit the Mayor's power. If nothing else, the actions of the Toronto council is significantly more democratic than Ford taking legal actions against their decisions. Democracy doesn't start and finish at the beginning and end of the writ period. Elected officials must accept the checks and balances to their power, and in the case of Ford right now it would be the will of the democratically elected city council. The message I'm getting from him is that an elected body of representatives can't act as a countermeasure to his own power.
Would you vote for him again?
Liberty4all
Banned
That's why I think there should be a snap election. Get rid of him democratically. And if by chance he should happen to win again, then honour his mandate.
The Council hates Ford (as do many Torontonians too). Hating somebody is not a good enough reason to ignore his or her mandate to lead.
47% IS a clear mandate when looking at the percentages of everyone else that went up against him. If the Council is so convinced that Ford doesn't have the people's support, throw the election now and let the people decide.
See that's the thing ... there is a very real fear that he will win again. What then?
Outside of Ford's personal issues, not liking the man's political ideology is not a good enough reason to essentially ignore the mandate granted to him. Is Ford's personal issues a good enough reason? I don't know honestly .... especially when polls have consistently shown a significant portion of people still support him. Personally I think he'd lose at this point, so throw the damn election and get him out of office properly.
edit: And as an aside, the Provincial government SHOULD be setting up some type of recall process, or some type of checks and balances, vote of non confidence ... some way to get an election rolling again in cases of extreme discord like this.
Liberty4all
Banned
Fair enough. I guess what I meant is that he had a clear mandate granted to him.
equippedwithtowel
Member
Should we remove the ability of the Toronto city council to bestow or remove mayoral privileges that are currently their right?
Anything else is the provinces purview and given that unanimous action in that environment is gonna take a bit of time, the city council would rather not just sit there.
Zombie James
Banned
Our new Mayor:
Not the sharpest tool in the shed, but a vast improvement.
Not the sharpest tool in the shed, but a vast improvement.
No. For this, see this:
..
An election now would be dumb since there is going to be one next year. So we're going to have to foot the bill on two elections? No thanks. This outcome is just fine as it is right now.
Agreed, a problem is though that the way the system is designed the mayor needs to build a consensus and get a majority of councillors to support his agenda to get his mandate through. That's the very core of the job description. And that's exactly what Mayor Ford seems to be completely incapable of. He straight up does not have the skills required to carry out his mandate and is in fact gumming up the works for council which is where governing power has always resided for the municipality.
The Mayor has his job, the Council has theirs. Council's job is *more* for the city important and Council has been almost completely ignoring him since 2012 to get their jobs done. The media celebrity shit show Ford has caused just made it impossible for them to ignore him any longer.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
Go watch the 5th Estate documentary by CBC on Ford. This man should not be mayor of Canada's largest city.
A clear mandate from 47% of the people who voted. Not for the other 53% who voted that, unfortunately, split the vote which allowed this gong-show of a buffoon to make it into office.
All the more reason for this city to de-amalgamate, IMO. I don't want to dictate what happens in the suburbs and the suburbs shouldn't be able to dictate what happens in the core. Fuck this mega city bullshit.
Liberty4all
Banned
How is it apologistic?
The Council has effectively taken away the vast majority of the power in terms of what makes the Mayor's office that of the Mayor.
When people vote in a candidate they are voting essentially for the powers that come with the position ... their trust that the person should be given the mandate to lead with the powers one assumes the office of the Mayor has.
Look I get that the Council has the power to revoke the powers of the office. I'm just not as certain as everyone else that the system of checks and balances should be working like this. I'm not even talking about Ford ... I'm talking in general looking at the Office of the Mayor versus the Council.
With that said, I also acknowledge that the Mayor has a duty to LEAD effectively ... and that means making allies on the Council. It's apparent that Ford has alienated almost every single Council member which makes for shitty governance.
As is their right as elected representatives of Toronto, people who have a mandate and are acting in what they believe is in the best interests of their constituents.
The same applies to the members of council who are elected with the power to counter the Mayor's own power.
Bamelin, what do you not get about this? We're beyond "mandates" and "leading the city". Regardless of this "mandate" that you keep bringing up, this idiot has proven that he is not capable to function not only as Mayor of this city, but also as a member of City Council and also as a human being.
I think he's wary of it being perhaps happening again, but under the circumstances of just partisanship, which is possible, but IMO unlikely.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Nope, those powers belong to the council they are just delegated to the mayor.
The idea behind the mayor is that he's just a figurehead, a representative for the whole city instead of just his ward. Any powers that Council gave him is just that, extra. They have the right to give it and they have a right to take it away if they believe if it's in Council's and Toronto's best interests.
The idea behind the mayor is that he's just a figurehead, a representative for the whole city instead of just his ward. Any powers that Council gave him is just that, extra. They have the right to give it and they have a right to take it away if they believe if it's in Council's and Toronto's best interests.
equippedwithtowel
Member
Because, and I'm sure I you won't agree to this on face value; if David Miller was self destructing like this but could hypothetically win a recall you wouldn't be crowing re-election then back to normal.
We don't even know if Ford is gonna be indicted yet. Furthermore it's not merely that he is a bad colleague but that he has made Toronto the laughingstock of the world, I can certainly see why they wish to take every punitive measure at their disposal.
Unless Norm Kelly starts freebasing heroin in council chambers..
Very strange. Isn't he also a Liberal? Or was, at least?
Liberty4all
Banned
It's true I didn't like Miller, but it's not true I wouldn't say the same thing about a re-election if Miller had found himself in a similar position as Ford. I'm a firm believer in letting the people decide. Scandals are not the sole dominance of Ford, just look at the previous federal Liberal government.
Ford won fair and square, let him ride out his mandate or hold an election and hope the people dump him.
Speaking honestly here ... what happens if he wins again?
Here's the thing- so did council representatives. I totally understand not agreeing to their decision to castrate his power, but it's not undemocratic.
Liberty4all
Banned
yeah pretty much my main concern. With that said I've never seen the Council so united EVER .... usually they are at each other's throats, with whoever is Mayor riding the tiger to get everyone to agree on something.
How many votes did the Council need to run this stuff through? 50 + 1, or was a super majority needed?
Not sure if serious or just pushing thinly veiled Ford apologism in an attempt to troll..
Just a simple majority. I don't think there is anything in Toronto's bylaws about when a super majority of councillors would be required for anything.
Zombie James
Banned
And Ford's broken that trust. He's lied to the public pretty much non-stop since getting elected, not just about his personal issues but about policy as well ("No service cuts, guaranteed"). He's attacked the poor, he's attacked children, he's attacked efforts to curb gang violence, he's attacked cyclists, and he even went so far as to attack people with AIDS:
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...nst_every_community_grants_program_again.html
http://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha..._against_free_money_for_gang_prevention.html#
Are these the policies you voted for and support? He's not only an embarrassment to the city and to himself, but he's also a disgusting human being with paper-thin morals. Even taking the drug addiction and alcoholism out of the equation, the city deserves far, far better.
Honestly Bamelin. This is no different from when a minorty gov't gets put into line, or is voted down by the majority opposition. The minority gov't has a "mandate" but so does the opposition. There is no difference and it's no less democratic. It's also nowhere near being "illegal" as Ford has been touting.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Ford lost what was essentially a vote of confidence.
Toronto is now run by a de facto caretaker government.
The campaign for the next election will start in 2-3 months.
Ford can run.
Does that make you feel better?
Liberty4all
Banned
Not sure if serious or just pushing thinly veiled Ford apologism in an attempt to troll..
I'm serious.
Look, in the case of Ford, there were rabid Ford haters BEFORE any of the shit in his personal life came out. The Star and a portion of the Council were gunning for him even without all this other shit based on his politics.
Of course I'm worried about watching a Mayor get stripped of his powers by a Council that clearly hated his guts to begin with.
With that said, Ford clearly should have done the right thing and stepped aside like any normal rational person would do. He obviously can't lead, and does not have the ability to create a coalition of conservatives. He's alienated everyone, even those that were once allied to him.
Again my main concerns lie with the idea that a leftist Council could strip the powers of a right leaning Mayor, based on partisanship and politics.
edit: I like that Gif, saving it for future use
Ford has a clear mandate for what exactly? A mandate to fratenize with drug lords, drunk drive, smoke crack, verbally and physically abuse people... ?! This stripping of powers is not politically motivated, it has nothing to do with a mandate from the election (indeed the revealed behavior of Ford is very much at odds with the image he presented during the election and his promise to be strong against drugs and crime).
This stripping of powers is about restricting the influence of a mayor who seems unstable, is negatively impacting the workings of council and reputation of the city.
Do you realize that even outside of Ford's issues as of late, this same scenario (stripping the Mayor of his powers) could have happened at any time if Council were to put forward, vote on and pass a motion? Were you worried then or are you only worried now that you know it can happen? Nothing has changed in what Council can or can't do.
equippedwithtowel
Member
Welcome to responsible government.
The executive must operate under majority confidence of the legislature to retain power
This isn't wholly true, no. While there are members of council who strongly disagree with the mayor, he has had the majority vote on council for a number of issues before. We're seeing now members who do and don't have a history with him vote in favour of curbing his powers.
Liberty4all
Banned
I had no idea the Council had those powers to be honest. Municipal politics isn't really my forte.
I get why in his case they did what they had to do based on his personal revelations .... I just hope it doesn't set a precedent in the future for getting rid of sane but hated political opponents.
equippedwithtowel
Member
Can I reiterate my point about responsible government?
This is how executive power works in this country, if you don't like it then join the senate or something.
This is a rational concern, but if Toronto were to get an entire city government as extreme as Ford it would have larger problems outside of what it can and can't do to the Mayor's powers.
You know the funny thing? If he had stepped down for a short time and said he was going to a treatment centre he wouldn't have had anything taken away and would've come back in a lot better position for the election next year.
I worry about the same thing for both ways.
Bamelin,
1. the council is not leftist, it's got a pretty nice split between right wingers (Minnan-Wong, Kelly, Shiner, The Fords, Shiner, Nunziata, Stintz etc.) centrists (Matlow, Colle etc.) left wingers (Wong-Tam, Vaughan, Layton etc.) and random crazy (Mammoliti)
2. At the very start of his mandate Ford HAD the support of council, he killed the Vehicle Tax, he almost killed and at least suspended Transit City, he was on a roll with the right wing applauding every move and the centrists siding with the Ford Nation phenomenon. The left wing was on its heels. It took Doug Ford trying to sell the Portlands out from under Waterfront Toronto in a backroom deal with mall developers in order to put up a monorail and a Ferris Wheel that broke Rob Ford's hold over council (with the left wing building alliances with the center because the Doug Ford plan was full on bonkers and Waterfront Toronto has done a damn fine job) and once lost he had no idea how to get it back. Then he lost the support of his HAND PICKED very right wing EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE to boot.
3. The one leading this charge is Minnan-Wong, one of Ford's most trusted lieutenants initially and a full on right winger, the left wing actually wanted to send this to the Integrity Commissioner. The only one still voting for him is Shiner.
This, he might have won if he did that.
In the 80s he was one of the people behind a report to help improve race relations. Guy took a hard turn to the right like Mammoliti in the 90s.
Liberty4all
Banned
I've always thought of Minnan-Wong as more middle of the road right but regardless your point is taken.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked