yo, no
RTTP Star Wars - Return of the Jedi is the best
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yo, no
LookAtMeGo
Member
People always mention this, but no one ever mentions how the protagonists, including a Jedi, are all captured by the Ewoks within 10 minutes of landing on Endor.
Spider from Mars
tap that thorax
None of the Star Wars movies are that good, except for Empire. They are enjoyable space romps that we liked as kids and the people that I know who watched them for the first time as adults are indifferent on them for the most part. The prequels aren't as bad as everyone says, they are par for the course with that franchise.
It's not even the best property with Star in it.
Star Trek>Stargate>Battle Beyond the Stars> Star Wars=Dancing with the Stars
It's not even the best property with Star in it.
Star Trek>Stargate>Battle Beyond the Stars> Star Wars=Dancing with the Stars
MrRudiMentary
Member
I honestly found that it didn't hold up anywhere as well as the other two in hindsight. The first act is good and all scenes involving Vader and the Emperor are amazing, but the rest of the movie just plods on. The plot is poorly structured (the first act is completely separate to the rest of the film), Luke becomes much more boring than the other two films and all the other characters have zero character development. The Luke and Leia plot is contrived and scenes involving it are boring to watch, which similar scenes in the other two films weren't. The climax also shows symptoms of the climax of Phantom Menace. We go from this battle of morals on the Death Star to the intense final attack on in space, to... slapstick ewok fights where the Empire's incompetence is at it's peak.
It's still a good film but I feel if it had come out today it would be ripped apart like Dark Knight Rises or Iron Man 3.
It's still a good film but I feel if it had come out today it would be ripped apart like Dark Knight Rises or Iron Man 3.
Fancy Clown
Member
ROTJ is third best. The climax is amazing, and the first act is fun (although too long). It's the worst shot of the original three though, the ewoks are cute but the whole endor battle is just too cute, in fact much of the movie feels like it's aimed at a younger crowd with a much lighter tone. Han Solo is all of a sudden super chummy (actually all of the good guys are) and it just feels very slight, and so the great climax lacks a lot of weight.
The locations are also really full compared to ESB, we go back to tatooine and then go to a forest instead of an awesome ice planet, creepy asteroids, murky swamps, and a fantastical city in the clouds. It lacks scope.
Empire Strikes Back is honestly in a league of it's own compared to all the other Star Wars films, it's the only one that is legit classic in almost every capacity.
The locations are also really full compared to ESB, we go back to tatooine and then go to a forest instead of an awesome ice planet, creepy asteroids, murky swamps, and a fantastical city in the clouds. It lacks scope.
Empire Strikes Back is honestly in a league of it's own compared to all the other Star Wars films, it's the only one that is legit classic in almost every capacity.
This is precisely my problem with Empire as well. It had far more downtime that was wasted in meaningless tests.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
Plus, Jedi is the most tainted of the OT with the changes. They make it a less good movie. The changes may be small, but they're significant.
While it's not the strongest of the original trilogy in my opinion, it does have some very powerful scenes, mostly all of the Luke/Vader scenes. I love this scene in particular; one of my favourite from the original trilogy.
Luke surrenders to Darth Vader
Luke surrenders to Darth Vader
Fancy Clown
Member
The Yoda part is great! Firstly, Yoda is at his best and most entertaining here, and so much of the dramatic heft of the third act is established here, as is Luke's character.
Those meaningless tests are exactly why the film is great, though, and why it's a step above all the other films. There's actual emotional, personal stakes for the characters—every other film in the series, even ANH which I think is about as good as any film that's done the whole monomyth/hero's journey, the stakes basically boil down to 1: adventure, 2: big bad empire. It's the one moment where the films aren't just weightless cartoons, and Lucas has been living off of that goodwill ever since.
That scene where Yoda lifts the X-Wing is the best scene in the whole series.
That scene where Yoda lifts the X-Wing is the best scene in the whole series.
Arthr2ShdsJcksn
Banned
There is only one worthwhile opinion:
2>1>3>>>>>>[Whatever ranking here because it doesn't matter since the prequels aren't worthy of discussion].
I can accept arguments that vary up the order of the OT to an extent, but once people start throwing in the absolute dogshit prequels, I lose all respect.
2>1>3>>>>>>[Whatever ranking here because it doesn't matter since the prequels aren't worthy of discussion].
I can accept arguments that vary up the order of the OT to an extent, but once people start throwing in the absolute dogshit prequels, I lose all respect.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
Then why did you rank the prequels and ignore the originals.
Man internet nerds are no fun.
The thing that killed the prequels is that they took themselves too seriously. You need dumb shit like the Ewoks and Luke and Han screaming out insane lines. Leia and Han both take times where they almost seem to be laughing at their circumstances and the entire movie. And I think you need that to make something as crazy as Star Wars work.
I really hope the new movies have some lighthearted moments like that. Thats something I feel we really miss from the 80s. Lacking self awareness is bad in general, but it can be great in a movie.
The thing that killed the prequels is that they took themselves too seriously. You need dumb shit like the Ewoks and Luke and Han screaming out insane lines. Leia and Han both take times where they almost seem to be laughing at their circumstances and the entire movie. And I think you need that to make something as crazy as Star Wars work.
I really hope the new movies have some lighthearted moments like that. Thats something I feel we really miss from the 80s. Lacking self awareness is bad in general, but it can be great in a movie.
Han Solo is established as the outlaw with a heart of gold who is constantly on the run from the law, and successfully for so long. Then this guy comes along and bags him. He's seen chilling with Darth Vader and doesn't hold his tongue around him. The biggest, baddest guy in the movie and this dude is like "Hey, watch the merchandise!"
I get that he goes out in a wimpy manner. But the fact that he nabs Solo and is hugely mysterious with a cool costume was enough to grab my attention. I'll never understand why there's this lack of ideas about the intrigue a character like that creates.
It's good, but it's definitely weaker than the first two. It has a great first third, and a great last third (minus the Ewoks) and most of the emotional beats hit their mark well. But I have issues with it:
-The middle part drags badly.
-Han really doesn't get much to do. He's just kind of there. No wonder Harrison Ford wasn't really "feeling it" this time around.
-Leia's also underused, and the revelation of her connection to Luke/Vader is ultimately pretty meaningless. Nothing comes of it, it feels shoehorned in (hopefully the ST does something with that).
-The Ewoks-I don't actually mind the Ewoks themselves, they're ok. But the fact that an army of stone-age teddy bears defeats and "entire legion of the Emperor's best troops," is just dumb. And what makes it worse is how easily they seem to do it.
Of the six current films, I'd rank it third.
-The middle part drags badly.
-Han really doesn't get much to do. He's just kind of there. No wonder Harrison Ford wasn't really "feeling it" this time around.
-Leia's also underused, and the revelation of her connection to Luke/Vader is ultimately pretty meaningless. Nothing comes of it, it feels shoehorned in (hopefully the ST does something with that).
-The Ewoks-I don't actually mind the Ewoks themselves, they're ok. But the fact that an army of stone-age teddy bears defeats and "entire legion of the Emperor's best troops," is just dumb. And what makes it worse is how easily they seem to do it.
Of the six current films, I'd rank it third.
Preach!
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
Fancy Clown
Member
Perfect response, this is.
Not sure how ROTS is better than ROTJ.
I've heard it from quite a few people recently, saying it's due to the high emotional drama of ROTS with Anakin's turn to the dark side.
I'd say Vader's turn was the worst part of ROTS. It was so sudden, and somewhat nonsensical. Felt more like flipping a plot switch rather than real character development, and massively degraded the quality of ROTS as a whole.
When I challenge the ROTS people with this, I'm normally met with a "you just can't get over your Original Trilogy nostalgia", as some are doing in this very thread.
It's baffling to me and I want to understand your warped viewpoint.
ROTJ itself is fine as a safe wrap-up movie to the trilogy. It's more on the "fun" side and could have been deeper or more daring with its plot, but it provided great setpieces and a satisfying payoff.
I've heard it from quite a few people recently, saying it's due to the high emotional drama of ROTS with Anakin's turn to the dark side.
I'd say Vader's turn was the worst part of ROTS. It was so sudden, and somewhat nonsensical. Felt more like flipping a plot switch rather than real character development, and massively degraded the quality of ROTS as a whole.
When I challenge the ROTS people with this, I'm normally met with a "you just can't get over your Original Trilogy nostalgia", as some are doing in this very thread.
It's baffling to me and I want to understand your warped viewpoint.
ROTJ itself is fine as a safe wrap-up movie to the trilogy. It's more on the "fun" side and could have been deeper or more daring with its plot, but it provided great setpieces and a satisfying payoff.
Nerdkiller
Membeur
But with the way that people go on about them, you'd think he'd be a more significant character throughout the series. When I first saw the Originals and what Boba left in the end, all I could go was...that's it?
Both are supposed to be important showdowns with one character being someone who is overwhelmed by his emotions. In Jedi we get Luke wailing away on Vader with no remorse. Sith gives us two people standing there doing pointless sword twirls.
brandonh83
Banned
The actual moment happens fast, but it had significant buildup. It started with his mother's death and the Jedi being asshats and not allowing him to visit his mom or have a relationship, which is a huge flaw of the Jedi order and one reason why they suck and how Palpatine was able to manipulate the fuck out of them. There's a lot of details that contribute to it. You can not personally like it, but I would argue that it had ample setup.
That "pointless sword twirl" lasts all of like three seconds but by all means pretend that was the entire fight. and it's clear what's going on-- it's sort of a roulette moment where they're trying to anticipate when the other is going to strike. This is why I don't like to argue with people that just throw whatever complaint at the wall. If you stop to think about it for about as long as that part actually lasts, it makes sense.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Return of the Jedi was my favorite as a kid for 2 simple reasons really.
1) Green lightsaber was fuckin awesome since green was my favorite color.
2) It had a bit more of a light hearted tone for most of the movie.
Since then though, I've really kinda resented the movie, Han Solo was no where near as awesome in ROTJ as he was in ANH and ESB, almost everything that happen on Endor incites some level of groaning and well it was just kind of eh.
The best scenes in ROTJ are the tatooine palace rescue and Skiff battle, the battle over endor against the death star 2, and of course the final duel between Luke and Vader, which for me is easily the best "sword" duel on cinema.
1) Green lightsaber was fuckin awesome since green was my favorite color.
2) It had a bit more of a light hearted tone for most of the movie.
Since then though, I've really kinda resented the movie, Han Solo was no where near as awesome in ROTJ as he was in ANH and ESB, almost everything that happen on Endor incites some level of groaning and well it was just kind of eh.
The best scenes in ROTJ are the tatooine palace rescue and Skiff battle, the battle over endor against the death star 2, and of course the final duel between Luke and Vader, which for me is easily the best "sword" duel on cinema.
Tatooine wasn't in Empire.
Yet he still manages to be cooler than Darth Maul, Count Dooku and General Grievous.
Agreed. And that was the only new location; the other two (Tatooine and Death Star) were rehashes of A New Hope.
Dreams-Visions
Member
For me personally,
4 > 6 > 5
But I haven't watched the trilogy in about a decade. A rewatch of all 3 might change my opinion again. I just remember never really enjoying ESB all that much. Maybe because the middle of the film was so much slower than 4 or 6, with far fewer action sequences and a deep, depressing lack of X-Wings fighting Tie Fighters.
But no order is wrong.
Also, if you're not watching the Speeder Bike chase in AT LEAST 5.1 SURROUND SOUND, you're doing it all fucking wrong. That scene in DTS surround sound is what you should be demo'ing your sound system with.
4 > 6 > 5
But I haven't watched the trilogy in about a decade. A rewatch of all 3 might change my opinion again. I just remember never really enjoying ESB all that much. Maybe because the middle of the film was so much slower than 4 or 6, with far fewer action sequences and a deep, depressing lack of X-Wings fighting Tie Fighters.
But no order is wrong.
Also, if you're not watching the Speeder Bike chase in AT LEAST 5.1 SURROUND SOUND, you're doing it all fucking wrong. That scene in DTS surround sound is what you should be demo'ing your sound system with.
Anakin's "fall" ROTS is ludicrously fast and based on lame reasoning. The destruction of the Jedi has no real emotional impact because a. it's rushed through in one quick montage, and b. the Jedi have been so underdeveloped throughout those films that I don't really care about them. I had more of an emotional reaction to Luke's aunt and uncle getting BBQ'd in ANH honestly. And Padme's death doesn't work because she was so reduced as a character in ROTS, the "love story" was godawful to begin with, and the reasoning for it was insulting "she's lost the will to live, broken hear, yada yada yada." Bullcrap. Basically ROTS is an exercise in squandered potential.
Perhaps on subsequent viewings it's not as great, but they served a more meaningful purpose for the story especially for a first time watcher like me. Luke's training with Yoda did a lot of lore building, as well as communicating with the audience that Luke was ill prepared for the climax of the movie. The Millenium Falcon hiding in an asteroid served to build the sexual tension between Leia and Han. Don't forget the small twist of finding out they were actually inside an alien.
The whole Ewok subplot was too off tangent and didn't do enough to build up the final battle that everyone was expecting. The same result could've been achieved much faster if Leia had rescued an Ewok leader that convinced the rest of his people to help out the Alliance.
5>4>6
Jedi is the weakest, but the highs are far higher than anything in the prequels and it is a satisfying climax to the trilogy. ROTS can't even get that right.
The prequels are just different types of shit, like the Bristol Stool Chart. One may pass easier than the others, but it's still shit.
Jedi is the weakest, but the highs are far higher than anything in the prequels and it is a satisfying climax to the trilogy. ROTS can't even get that right.
The prequels are just different types of shit, like the Bristol Stool Chart. One may pass easier than the others, but it's still shit.
Bucket Mouse
Member
People in this thread will attempt to convince you that RotS is better than RotJ. Try not to guffaw too heartily.
I finally caved and bought the movies on blu-ray. My OT set arrived today and is waiting at home for me. That scene is one in particular I'm looking forward to.
Still not sure how that leads logically into killing the Jedi kids.
He saved Palpatine from Mace Windu in the hopes that Palpatine can follow through on his promise to save Padme. OK, that's fine.
Then, it's off to the Jedi temple to kill everyone. Not sure how that's a logical progression. Unless you're saying Anakin falling to the dark side is basically like flipping a switch, going instantly from 0 to 100 on the evil scale and any actions after that do not need context.
brandonh83
Banned
I see people sharing opinions. I don't see anyone trying to prove their opinion about which one is a better movie. You can't really do that. I like it more but whether someone likes Jedi more doesn't matter to me, that's how they perceive it and Jedi is a cool flick.
I actually think that's sort of implied, yeah.
Nerdkiller
Membeur
I don't know. Looking like the goddamn devil is sure to win some people over. Grievious deserved better, though. Especially when he was portrayed in the first Clone Wars series.
Lokimaru
Member
Yes because those little drop bears can't possible be terrifiying, They tried to eat the heroes.
FrontalMonk
Banned
Huh? His mom being killed by sandpeople and the Jedi being asshats was "ample setup" for child slaughter and bringing down the entire Republic? Only if you're a complete sociopath to begin with, which Anakin clearly was from the moment we meet him in AOTC.
brandonh83
Banned
Well there you go. "I killed them, the women, children, all of them..." I think the dark side is a fucking bastard, honestly.
Not to mention that he does all on "maybe." "The ability to cheat death is something that only one has obtained. But if we work together, I'm sure that we can discover the secret." If Anakin were a halfway intelligent human being, his reaction would have been "wait a minute, you lead me to believe that you KNEW how to save Padme's life. And now you're giving me a maybe we can do it. Screw that, out the window you go, and I'm going back to the Jedi and telling them how I bravely vanquished you after arrive just a little too late to save Mace and the others."
Yes, truly this was the "good friend" that Obi Wan remembers with such fond nostalgia in ANH. You know, they guy who's presence he barely seems to tolerate throughout the PT. Truly this was the good man who was tragically seduced to evil that Obi Wan describes in ROTJ. Oh wait, not it wasn't.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
I'd say a bit of both. Blame is all on Lucas though.
I never said it lasts the entire fight...
Here's the thing ... it doesn't make sense. If you're waiting trying to anticipate your opponents next attack, don't waste energy and movement. Hell the actual act of doing that stupid twirl is more likely to get you in trouble because half the time your not even going to be in a proper stance to block an incoming attack. That silly twirling thing is there purely for the purpose of looking neat but does absolutely nothing for the fight itself.
For the record I actually like the Obi-Wan/Anakin fight in Sith outside of a few of these stupid moments (another stupid moment is the "i have the high ground" ending). I just really don't like the over-choreographed stuff.
To me, ANH and Empire represent space opera of the highest order. They clearly stand alone at the top of the heap of SW movies.
ROTJ ushered in juvenile writing and characters that plagued the rest of the series on into the prequels.
Jawas>>>>>> Ewoks
Cantina>>>>>>>>>>> Jabba's Palace
ANH/Empire Han >>>>>>>>>> ROTJ Han
ANH/Empire Leia >>>>>>>>>> ROTJ Leia
ANH/Empire Vader >>>>>>>>>> ROTJ Vader
ROTJ ushered in juvenile writing and characters that plagued the rest of the series on into the prequels.
Jawas>>>>>> Ewoks
Cantina>>>>>>>>>>> Jabba's Palace
ANH/Empire Han >>>>>>>>>> ROTJ Han
ANH/Empire Leia >>>>>>>>>> ROTJ Leia
ANH/Empire Vader >>>>>>>>>> ROTJ Vader
phazedplasma
Member
The "cracker opening" is extremely boring and has some of the worst pacing of the entire series.
The space battle and luke/vader fight is what saved this film.
Jedi was ghost directed by Lucas. He was afraid of what would happen again if he gave all control to a good director like he did with Empire.
The space battle and luke/vader fight is what saved this film.
Jedi was ghost directed by Lucas. He was afraid of what would happen again if he gave all control to a good director like he did with Empire.
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