RTTP Star Wars - Return of the Jedi is the best

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I like ROTJ. It reminds us that Star Wars isn't this tiny place inhabited only by humans. Something ESB really struggles with. Jabba's Palace is brimming with a diverse cast of sentient alien creatures.

Where the fuck are those creatures in the Rebellion? We have such a large scale skirmish at Endor and we only see TWO aliens taking arms?

Oh and I guess some Bothans some place.

ESB doesn't even have any of that except the scene with Vader and the bounty hunters I guess. Oh and Yoda.

This is one of the things I actually like about the prequels. It may go overboard with aliens all over the place, but at least we see them doing shit other than sitting around bars.
 
Sephzilla said:
I never said it lasts the entire fight...

Here's the thing ... it doesn't make sense. If you're waiting trying to anticipate your opponents next attack, don't waste energy and movement. Hell the actual act of doing that stupid twirl is more likely to get you in trouble because half the time your not even going to be in a proper stance to block an incoming attack. That silly twirling thing is there purely for the purpose of looking neat but does absolutely nothing for the fight itself.

For the record I actually like the Obi-Wan/Anakin fight in Sith outside of a few of these stupid moments (another stupid moment is the "i have the high ground" ending). I just really don't like the over-choreographed stuff.
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Some of us like flippy spot-fest fights, Seph.
It was the AR Fox of light saber fights.
 
Snaku said:
Every scene in the Emperor's throne room is God tier. Could have done without the Ewoks, but they're not as loathsome as Gungans. I really dug the opening third with Jabba. It's my second favorite Star Wars film, behind Empire.
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How are the Gungans loathsome dude? They went up against a superior force as a distraction, that's courage. In Jedi they Mon Mothma gets all broken up about the bothans who died getting the location of the second Death star but how many Gungans Died getting the Queen and her people into the palace? Weesa doin' our part indeed.
 
The reasons why I like Empire over Jedi are mostly because Empire is a more thematically consistent film and I think thats probably the reason for a lot of others too whether they realize it or not.

Jedi kinda rubs you the wrong way occasionally with the jarring tonal shifts between the emotional throne room scene cutting to Chewbacca doing his best tarzan impression. BUT Jedi has some of the best scenes in the whole trilogy: the throne room scene, Jabbas, the second death star battle, they're all top notch.
 
ROTJ is my favorite too. I love the whole Jabba part and the fight with Vader is one of my favorite moments in movies. Also Ewoks >>>> Gungans by a country mile.
 
Spiritreaver said:
I like ROTJ. It reminds us that Star Wars isn't this tiny place inhabited only by humans. Something ESB really struggles with. Jabba's Palace is brimming with a diverse cast of sentient alien creatures.

Where the fuck are those creatures in the Rebellion? We have such a large scale skirmish at Endor and we only see TWO aliens taking arms?

Oh and I guess some Bothans some place.

ESB doesn't even have any of that except the scene with Vader and the bounty hunters I guess. Oh and Yoda.

This is one of the things I actually like about the prequels. It may go overboard with aliens all over the place, but at least we see them doing shit other than sitting around bars.
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Dude, Empire had Tauntauns, a yeti, Yoda, flying alien things in the giant space worm, and A GIANT SPACE WORM. Empire had the most diverse and 'alien' locations as well, even if it doesn't have the most number of diverse species represented.
 
thecouncil said:
UHkWevy.gif
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So much better than the rave party dancing from the prequel trilogy.
 
The original trilogy is leagues better than the prequels if you look at them as actual films and not just episodes in a space opera.

I think the Mr Plinkett reviews are pretty much definitive when it comes to how bad the prequels are as pieces of cinema. They just don't work.

Having said that...I still enjoy watching them. I like the awful dialogue, I like the spectacle - and occasionally, just occasionally, there'll be an actually good scene such as the Darth Maul lightsaber fight, the march on the Jedi Temple or the final shots in Attack of the Clones.

Ultimately, I'd still rather have absurd and extravagant mistakes like the prequels than boring, samey Hollywood blockbusters.

George Lucas is also a dude.
 
I don't hate the Ewoks but they kind of drag down the movie for me.

Beginning with Jabba's palace is fun, middle with Ewoks is eh, the final battle stuff is great.

As it stands a crummy middle makes it not a very consistent movie, so I'd put it a peg below ANH and Empire (which are imo tied for best - if I had to choose one I'd go with ANH).

That said it is a very worthy sequel and I wouldn't fault anyone for saying it's their favorite. The "ANH and Empire are the only good Star Wars movies" sentiment has always been kind of confusing to me because I grew up thinking of all three as equals more or less.
 
Spiritreaver said:
I like ROTJ. It reminds us that Star Wars isn't this tiny place inhabited only by humans. Something ESB really struggles with. Jabba's Palace is brimming with a diverse cast of sentient alien creatures.

Where the fuck are those creatures in the Rebellion? We have such a large scale skirmish at Endor and we only see TWO aliens taking arms?

Oh and I guess some Bothans some place.

ESB doesn't even have any of that except the scene with Vader and the bounty hunters I guess. Oh and Yoda.

This is one of the things I actually like about the prequels. It may go overboard with aliens all over the place, but at least we see them doing shit other than sitting around bars.
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You didnt know? The rebellion is uber racist. They talk about it in the EU.
 
I think that the assault on the second Death Star is the only redeeming thing about this film. The motion control, compositing, and motion control stuff still goes toe to toe with anything I've seen in the prequel trilogy or other films in the genre (even, argubly ... today).
 
brandonh83 said:
Well there you go. "I killed them, the women, children, all of them..." I think the dark side is a fucking bastard, honestly.
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Yeah but, therein lies the entire problem with the prequel trilogy. You've got this prophecy about space jesus, but he ends up being this asshole kid with a murderous streak. Oh sure, the movie tells us about his past great deeds and noble actions, but we never see them. Anakin is exclusively portrayed as a selfish asshole with weak morals who is totally guided by his emotions. There's no arc, there's no character development, and almost everything he does post-"transformation" is incidental to the resolution of the conflict. Anyone could have killed those baby Jedi or defenseless politicians. Not only did they fail to make me care about Asshole Skywalker, they diminished the character of Darth Vader. Total fail.
 
Crisco said:
Yeah but, therein lies the entire problem with the prequel trilogy. You've got this prophecy about space jesus, but he ends up being this asshole kid with a murderous streak. Oh sure, the movie tells us about his past great deeds and noble actions, but we never see them. Anakin is exclusively portrayed as a selfish asshole with weak morals who is totally guided by his emotions. There's no arc, there's no character development, and almost everything he does post-"transformation" is incidental to the resolution of the conflict. Anyone could have killed those baby Jedi or defenseless politicians. Not only did they fail to make me care about Asshole Skywalker, they diminished the character of Darth Vader. Total fail.
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I respect your opinion.
 
brandonh83 said:
The actual moment happens fast, but it had significant buildup. It started with his mother's death and the Jedi being asshats and not allowing him to visit his mom or have a relationship, which is a huge flaw of the Jedi order and one reason why they suck and how Palpatine was able to manipulate the fuck out of them. There's a lot of details that contribute to it. You can not personally like it, but I would argue that it had ample setup.
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Sorry but going from being a Jedi to killing children because the Jedi council was not accommodating is just lazy writing..
 
brandonh83 said:
The actual moment happens fast, but it had significant buildup. It started with his mother's death and the Jedi being asshats and not allowing him to visit his mom or have a relationship, which is a huge flaw of the Jedi order and one reason why they suck and how Palpatine was able to manipulate the fuck out of them. There's a lot of details that contribute to it. You can not personally like it, but I would argue that it had ample setup.
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Anakin falls to the dark side because the Jedi had the audacity to hold him to the same standards as other Jedi.
 
I think these debates sometimes miss the point that these movies are so great precisely because they are a perfect TRILOGY. A New Hope is great because it brings you into this universe with so much charm and accessibility. Empire is great because it deepens the universe and adds a much deeper philosophical dimension. Jedi is fantastic because it concludes the arcs that have been setup and has a lot of fun doing it.

The films are so fantastic precisely because of their context in the wider trilogy. Each one complements the others, and makes them better by association.
 
As a kid, I've always liked the redemption arc of Anakin Skywalker. That, for me, stuck out to me more than Vader's revelation as Luke's father.
 
Arc said:
You've completely missed the point of those "meaningless tests".
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No I get the point. The tests itself were absolutely boring. Going inside a swamp to fight Droid Vader.. seriously? That is supposed to be a test to become a Jedi? Is that the test I should take seriously?
 
Lokimaru said:
You can't hold someone to the same standards and call them the chosen one.
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Was Anakin ever actually aware of that "he's Force Jesus" shit? I remember Qui-Gon mentioning it to the council when he brought Anakin in, but I don't remember if Anakin was in the room for that.
 
Game4life said:
No I get the point. The tests itself were absolutely boring. Going inside a swamp to fight Droid Vader.. seriously? That is supposed to be a test to become a Jedi? Is that the test I should take seriously?
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I don't think that meant what you think it meant.
 
Game4life said:
No I get the point. The tests itself were absolutely boring. Going inside a swamp to fight Droid Vader.. seriously? That is supposed to be a test to become a Jedi? Is that the test I should take seriously?
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Wait... are you under the impression there was actually a fake Darth Vader droid in that cave?
 
Not sure if serious or troll post, op

Im going to assume your serious, empire as the worst Star wars of the original trilogy? your a rare breed my friend.

But each to their own.
 
Nerdkiller said:
But with the way that people go on about them, you'd think he'd be a more significant character throughout the series. When I first saw the Originals and what Boba left in the end, all I could go was...that's it?
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You're not wrong. He gets way more love than he deserves, from teenage me included. I'm just trying to state a possible why.
 
nullref said:
Wait... are you under the impression there was actually a fake Darth Vader droid in that cave?
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No I get it. The prophecy, seeing his own face in Darth Vader's helmet etc.. He has overcome the darkness in him etc..I am saying those mind games are not interestingly represented to the audience.

I will say this though. Hans was def more interesting in 4 and 5 then 6. I agree to that point.
 
I think that regardless of "objectives" or what happens in the movies, Empire is the most tonally balanced of the bunch, it allows itself room to breathe and develop its characters, and it's the one with the best hints at subtetly. That alone makes it the best Star Wars movie. Jedi is poorly executed by comparison. Not that it doesn't have its high points, it totally does, but it's not on the same league as the first 2 movies in the series.
 
Charles Foster Kane said:
Not really. Not to the same level. Plus, the delivery of some of the lines is straight up awkward. I still cringe with lines like "the emperor hasn't driven it from you fully".
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Maybe you outgrew Star Wars. Maybe you're just to mature for it now. It happens. Personally, as an immature weirdo, I will never understand why people don't like Ewoks.
 
Secret Fawful said:
Maybe you outgrew Star Wars. Maybe you're just to mature for it now. It happens. Personally, as am immature weirdo, I will never understand why people don't like Ewoks.
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That wasn't a complaint about the Ewoks, though. I don't hate them, man. I don't think they're good, but I can tolerate them. I like the baby ones. They're very cute :P
 
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