Haint
Member
Buy a used 3070 for like $300 - $350, or wait for the 4060s.
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RTX 4070 Ti review Thread
- Thread starter winjer
- Start date
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
You're talking about games but use synthetic benchmarks. Regular Firestrike is just 1080p.The 3060Ti'6X is something like 10% at most behind the 3070.
In terms of actual FPS its basically nothing.
In fact in many games they will be exactly equal or the 6X will win.
12% at 1440p. Granted, it's significantly better than I thought. I recalled it being tied with the 2080 but it's closer to the 2080S. Still, it's not equal to the 3070.
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01011001
Banned
again, like I said before, the peice is the fault of AMD being totally shit...
AMDs absolute top end GPUs can only compete with Nvidia's cut down die that should be a 4060Ti sold at 400 bucks but because AMD is so shit they can slap any price and name on it and still sell it.
that's the whole issue.
because yes, Nvidia is completely nuts with the prices, the 4070ti should not even be a 4070ti realistically (looking at the die spec) but they even thought they could get away with calling it a 4080, not because it's a high end chip but because, like I said, AMD's absolute top end is barely better than this cut down, mid range, and overpriced chip...
that's the whole issue... it shouldn't be a high end chip, the specs tell us it should be mid range, but it's priced and named the way it is because of AMD's inaptitude.
if the 7900xt was as powerful as the 4090 then Nvidia couldn't do this shit.
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hinch7
Member
Less inaptitude and more indirect price fixing. Nvidia sets a precedent and performance target(s) and rough costs. AMD follows. We've seen this is two generations now. And AMD knows they can't sell GPU's over 1K.
Both want to keep higher costs along the whole stack.
01011001
Banned
well, you could say that with their last gen cards, but not this time.
look at AMD, they have a card out called 7900XTX, it uses their top of the line die (Navi 31) and they can barely compete with Nvidia's last gen die
and the XTX afaik even already has all the CUs fully enabled, so they can't even release a revision that uses the full die later down the line like Nvidia did with the 3090ti last gen.
the only way AMD could release a higher end model is to overclock their Navi 31 die so much that it warrants a new model designation... and that's not gonna happen.
and if this is the best AMD chip that they can offer then Nvidia can do whatever the fuck they want.
because their top end die (which isn't even fully enabled yet) absolutely shits on Navi 31
the 4090 only uses 16384 of the 18432 shader units that their full AD102 die has,
so Nvidia doesn't even use their full hardware yet and even with 2000+ shader units deactivated they have a card that's so far ahead of AMD that you can barely believe they released the same year.
that's not price fixing, thats just what happens if there's no real competition.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
I can’t agree that this is AMDs fault. Nvidia led with a $1200 4080 and AMD matched them with a $1000 7900xtx. With a $800 4070ti you might argue the 7900xt is in need of drop to $800. Even then, that was priced in anticipation of Nvidia’s announcement of the $900 “4080” 12GB.
01011001
Banned
Nvidia priced their cards that high because they know AMD can't compete.
the 4080 uses the cut down AD103 die that doesn't even have all the shader units enabled, while the 7900xtx uses AMD's highest end Navi31 die with all of its available CUs enabled
so AMD can only compete with Nvidia's 2nd and 3rd tier dies with their 1st tier die.
so yeah, they can't compete.
and if AMD can't compete then Nvidia has free reign basically. Nvidia's AD102 die is basically a full generation ahead of AMD both in raster and RT performance. so they only used it in their 4090 sku and use their cut down 103 and 104 dies for the other cards.
the fact that Nvidia even though they could get away with sticking the AD104 die into a card and call it 4080 says a lot
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Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
None of those benchmarks of the 3060Ti'G6XYou're talking about games but use synthetic benchmarks. Regular Firestrike is just 1080p.
The 3070 is 14% faster according to Techspot. 15% for the 2080 Ti. This is definitely not "functionally equal". Functionally equal is less than 5%.
12% at 1440p. Granted, it's significantly better than I thought. I recalled it being tied with the 2080 but it's closer to the 2080S. Still, it's not equal to the 3070.
As soon as the G6X came out my buddy got one, cuz no other "midrange" GPUs ever came back in stock.
Ive always been a xx70 owner and the person who i swapped my 3070 with still games with it.
And we all use 12400s and game at 1440p (Okay I game UW1440p)
So ive got a pretty good grasp of the differences between the 3060Ti'G6X, the 3070 and the 3080(mine).
The 3070 and 3060Ti'G6X are pretty much identical.
At native 1440p the G6X actually seems to be slightly faster.
Sure its not purely scientific cuz of all the different software we have installed and whatnot.
But if the 3070 was that much faster the G6X would never actually keep up......but ive seen it pull similar or better numbers in a lot of games.
I could try getting screenshots from their PCs this weekend.
Hell im pretty sure on this very forum there someone with a vanilla MSI 60Ti which keeps up with 3070s.
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rnlval
Member
AD102 has a 17% larger chip size when compared to NAVI 31.
AD102 is on "TSMC 4" (refined 5 nm) which is slightly superior to NAVI 31's TSMC's older 5 nm and 6 nm mix.
FYI, Mobile Ryzen 7040 APU is AMD's first 4 nm on TSMC's 4 nm process node.
AMD Radeon Instinct MI250 "CDNA 2" Aldebaran (GCN 5.0+) per chip has 104 CU with 416 TMUs. MI250's two chips-on-chip packages have 208 CU and 832 TMUs with a 724 mm² area size. From CES 2023, MI250 was replaced by MI300 mega APU. MI300 mega APU has nine 5nm TSMC fab'ed chiplets.
The Radeon team didn't scale TMU/RT core count along with NAVI 21's 128 ROPS to NAVI 31's 192 ROPS.
NAVI 31 should have been 480 TMU/120 RT/192 ROPS on TSMC 4 nm/6 nm (memory controllers) process node instead of 384 TMU/96 RT/192 ROPS on TSMC 5 nm/6 nm.
AMD's TSMC 4 nm focus for Ryzen 7040 APU, FPGA acceleration, and MI300 mega APU shows mobile APU and HPC mega APU prioritization.
rnlval
Member
On a per CU basis, the Radeon team didn't double TMU count when NAVI 31 CU has double stream processor scaling when compared to NAVI 21's CU design. Higher TFLOPS without the corresponding texture unit scaling.
On raw unit count, NAVI 31 has about 33% fewer RT cores and TMUs when compared to GeForce RTX 4090 SKU while matching 192 ROPS count.
names are for friends
Member
AMD has been in a rough spot for a while— it says enough that the 4070 Ti die size is 295mm^2 and 7900XT die size is 520mm^2 (but with 87.5% of cores active since it's a cut-down XTX). It's clear who has the architectural advantage.
What's really killing AMD though is the inferiority in ray-tracing and DL features, imo. Nobody will buy the priciest card if it isn't the best at everything, so Nvidia wins there... and at the mid-high end it's much the same. Even if rasterisation performance is better, few people would by a 7900XT over a 4070 Ti if the former performs worse than a 3080 when ray-tracing is enabled, especially when the superior performance & IQ quality of DLSS Super Resolution (compared to FSR2) is accounted for. Then there's Frame Generation...
My opinion is that Nvidia has taken advantage of their very strong architectural lead to put out cheaper GPUs at higher prices. It's a bad situation for gamers.
What's really killing AMD though is the inferiority in ray-tracing and DL features, imo. Nobody will buy the priciest card if it isn't the best at everything, so Nvidia wins there... and at the mid-high end it's much the same. Even if rasterisation performance is better, few people would by a 7900XT over a 4070 Ti if the former performs worse than a 3080 when ray-tracing is enabled, especially when the superior performance & IQ quality of DLSS Super Resolution (compared to FSR2) is accounted for. Then there's Frame Generation...
My opinion is that Nvidia has taken advantage of their very strong architectural lead to put out cheaper GPUs at higher prices. It's a bad situation for gamers.
hinch7
Member
Its both really. AMD couldn't get Navi 31 to where they wanted to be without pumping the wattage. Which goes to show that their first foray into chiplets in DGPU hasn't gone quite right. And in the mid high range Nvidia and AMD are matching like for like for performance and cost. There a reason why they went with the XTX and XT moniker and pricing the latter to match Nvidia's 4080's.
People are mostly interested in the 60/70/80 tier cards. The flagship halo SKU's belong to Nvidia who enthusiasts will buy for professional work those who want the best gaming experience. Those types of people are looking at upto 2K for a Titan level card. You can bet that if XT was priced at previous 80 class price range ($600-700) those would be flying off shelves. As that's the kind of performance uptick that consumers expect to see in a generation increase if not more. Not the pay X amount for X amount of increase to FPS.
AMD could have easily sold the 7900XT as a 7800XT at $649 and still made a healthy profit but when they see Nvidia selling a mid tier silicon for $900, ofc they want in on that. Keeping prices high and margins high. Its a duopoly of sorts because they set the bar for what consumers pay. And they are raising it this generation.. well above the inflated cost Nvidia say and blame TSMC for these absurd costs.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Oh, I missed that you were talking about the GDDR6X variant, my bad. It does considerably better, yeah.
PeteBull
Member
To answer this question dont look for subjective answers of other users but check relative performance of ur gtx 1060 6GB vs other cards and decide if u like price/perf ratio https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gtx-1060-6-gb.c2862
From my pov if u can afford it 4070ti will be great upgrade for u since at 1440p its around 3090ti range( so over 4x fps vs ur current gpu as long as no other bottleneck- cpu will be important), for 4k this gpu is bit worse from 3090ti(not by much, i would say similar/maybe 5% better from my 3080ti which is still 4x faster from gtx 1060 6gigs).
As an alternative but only if u dont care about raytracing i would suggest one of amd cards, depending on ur local prices 6700xt to 6800xt can be really good value- again u gotta check local prices of particular gpu model, they can vary big time so check perf on the link i showed u and compare to ur local prices to be sure if price/perf is good enough for ur needs/budget.
About 7900 xt and xtx- their prices and avaiability in europe are atm pretty terrible so if u are already in price range of 1k euros go for 4070ti (pretty sure u can get it for 900€ or around that price). both new amd cards are substancially more expensive here in europe and offer much worse raytracing perf, bit better rasterisation perf, but again if u somehow get lucky with price and absolutely dont care about rt those could be valid choice(maybe in 6 months once their avaiability and retail mark up isnt as bad).
All in all yes but i strongly recommend cpu and probably mobo upgrade too if u got similary old one like ur current gpu- current market for midrange cpu is really good from price/perf pov.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
The 4080 is going to have to get a price cut.
Im even more sure Nvidia is gonna announce a price cut on this thing at GTC Spring and probably atleast hint at a 4080'20G for 1200 MSRP.
This was MSIs announcement of the 4070Ti.
Everyone clowning on the 4080....what a joke of a price.
Its still well over priced though.
And without a Founders we are pretty much fucked on the Ada generation unless you can save enough and stomach the price of the 4090.
Then we have this abomination:
Hahaha goodluck.
Im even more sure Nvidia is gonna announce a price cut on this thing at GTC Spring and probably atleast hint at a 4080'20G for 1200 MSRP.
This was MSIs announcement of the 4070Ti.
Everyone clowning on the 4080....what a joke of a price.
Its still well over priced though.
And without a Founders we are pretty much fucked on the Ada generation unless you can save enough and stomach the price of the 4090.
Then we have this abomination:
Hahaha goodluck.
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Dr.D00p
Member
Hahaha goodluck.
Does it come with the Noctua accessory pack...A pair of Paisley slippers, Wool Cardigan & a Pipe.
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Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
^ What a brick of a card
I know its going to be quiet but jees at least put some thought into making it less bulky.
No but it comes with 4.3 slots.....thats not a typo......4.3 fucking slots, which means 5 slots in reality worth of 4080 for the price of a 4090 and will be marginally quieter because below a certain threshold..........mate they are all silent.
Granted their claims of the card never going over 62 degrees sounds nice in theory.....but in practice its not like 4080s run hot.
Its a frikken 4080?
They should have built this abomination for the 4090 atleast.
Building it for a card no one wants makes it doubly worthless.
Lupin3
Targeting terrorists with a D-Pad
Then we have this abomination:
Hahaha goodluck.
Abomination? It's the best looking GPU since Jesus took a shit.
hinch7
Member
Yeah thats madness. The 3070 ASUS x Noctua was already a 4 slot monster, and this is one is even more absurd. That color scheme as well and overall dimensions does it no favors.
ASUS just strapped on a couple of standard NF-A12 fans on their an even thicker heatsink and called it a day. And idd, should've strapped it on a 4090. At least its on a GPU that people want.
The kicker is that will probably cost closer the 4090. So that'll take out interest for most people apart from those who must have the quietest PC.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Doesn’t the 4090 have the worst value of any Ada GPU? I’m curious why it gets propped up when it has the worst performance per dollar/cost per frame of all Ada GPUs.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Glad to see that it's not too difficult to pick up an MSRP 4070 Ti (despite some people in this thread suggesting otherwise). I've seen it in stock at $799 (+$10 shipping) every day since launch at Newegg.
Also good to see the 7900 XT in stock at it's MSRP.
Despite the somewhat high prices, its a beautiful thing that scalpers have been averted and that you can actually buy these cards if you want one.
Also good to see the 7900 XT in stock at it's MSRP.
Despite the somewhat high prices, its a beautiful thing that scalpers have been averted and that you can actually buy these cards if you want one.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Who would want to scalp a 40 series card?
Theres no profit to be made scalping an RTX40.
4080 scalpers ended up selling them on ebay for MSRP or less cuz no one wants these things at MSRP let alone at scalper prices.
I think after the first two launched scalpers realized its pointless to even try.
So manufacturers are doing their best to take their place *stares and Strix and Aorus.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
When even your board partners are shitting on your products.
https://videocardz.com/newz/msi-says-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-cost-is-not-as-bad-as-rtx-4080
https://videocardz.com/newz/msi-says-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-cost-is-not-as-bad-as-rtx-4080
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SportsFan581
Member
^ That's hilarious.
It will be interesting to see how this pricing effects the AIBs. Their businesses might be more geared towards volume than anything else, if that's the case they are probably very frustrated with the new products behind the scenes.
It will be interesting to see how this pricing effects the AIBs. Their businesses might be more geared towards volume than anything else, if that's the case they are probably very frustrated with the new products behind the scenes.
GHG
Member
Not sure why people are suddenly concerned about AIB's when they themselves were scalping GPU's during the crypto gold rush and pandemic.
01011001
Banned
well they barely make any money on the cards due to Nvidia being extremely restrictive when it comes to designing the cards and pricing them.
so they need to take any opportunity they get to actually keep afloat. especially since they have to compete with the MSRP of Nvidia themselves, who can push down prices further due to the fact that they of course make the damn chips lol
GHG
Member
I'm not sure Nvidia themselves give a shit about their AIB partners if the stuff that came out from the EVGA fallout is anything to go by.
As far as I'm concerned it's a case of "cry me a river". They all benefitted when the market was hot, some even via unethical means, so now they need to man up and deal with the other side of the coin.
Buggy Loop
Member
Interesting.. I wonder how much improvement they’ll get?
At this point, they probably optimize even their architecture with AI. It’ll be hard for competition considering how much AI knowledge Nvidia accumulated.
chromatic9
Member
When even your board partners are shitting on your products.
https://videocardz.com/newz/msi-says-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-cost-is-not-as-bad-as-rtx-4080
They've symbolized the falling and crumbling pillars of new PC hardware very well.
GymWolf
Member
The 4080 is going to have to get a price cut.
Im even more sure Nvidia is gonna announce a price cut on this thing at GTC Spring and probably atleast hint at a 4080'20G for 1200 MSRP.
This was MSIs announcement of the 4070Ti.
Everyone clowning on the 4080....what a joke of a price.
Its still well over priced though.
And without a Founders we are pretty much fucked on the Ada generation unless you can save enough and stomach the price of the 4090.
Then we have this abomination:
Hahaha goodluck.
How sure you are about the price cut?
Not that i can't really wait for the end of march to buy a gpu...
TuFaN
Member
Most likely too expensive as well.
Irobot82
Member
I'm pretty sure they already do use AI to help layout their transistors.
amigastar
Member
Sure. Just the possibilty to use Raytracing makes it reasonable. And DLSS3.0. You can play lets say Callisto Protocol on 4k with an RTX 4070ti on very high, thats not possible with a 1080ti.
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Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Yes, it's a massive upgrade. It's around 2x better performance.
01011001
Banned
given that it almost beats the 3090ti, I'd say yes
twilo99
Member
Bleek, but that's how marketing works...
Remember when Apple started charging $1000 for their flagship phone? Yeah, 100% normalized at this point.
You can watch the same happen to the GPU market right now, in slow motion.
The 4070 Ti is 75% the size of the 3070, which the 3060 Ti uses a cut down version of. However the cost per mm^2 has likely doubled on the 4N process, they are using more expensive GDDR6X memory and 4GB more of it, and the power/cooling requirements have also increased. So no way was the 4070 Ti ever selling for $400.
amigastar
Member
Sounds sweet. We'll see. AI is the new thing in the 2020s.
Kenpachii
Member
With DLSS massive upgrade.
winjer
Gold Member
BTW, TechpowerUp now, also has a depository for the dll for DLSS3
www.techpowerup.com
NVIDIA DLSS 3 Frame Generation DLL 3.7.10 Download
This download provides various versions of NVIDIA's DLSS 3 DLL for download. In this one file, which is bundled with all games that support DLSS 3
01011001
Banned
are there noticeable improvements already?