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[Elder Legend]

I agree with that. Phil Spencer really does not want Xbox be inferior to Playstation in price and/or performance and even did the S/X strategy to garantee that this gen.

This is where I disagree a little. This is not about 3 years are enough or not. But more about the year that they loose for no good reason. The One X was strong, and the comparison with the weaker Xbox One made it even more obvious. Any game that play on Xbox One can easily be a lot better on the One X, and Xbox first party studios naturally showed that. This gen the Series X is a good machine. So if the goal is to have the best console, being out one year later just to be a little better is weird to me. They can be better the same year. And not loose to much, unless there is a huge revolution in AMD tech that Sony would not want to wait for for some reason. Loosing one year will make the PS5 Pro the console that will be the standard for optimisation because it will have sold a lot more. And this time the Series S will make it awkward for Xbox first party to use it well in my opinion. I think that if they have one game that should be out in 2025 and that could really showcase this great like Forza did for the One X and Horizon did for Sony I could maybe understand it. But once again the Series S make that hard to imagine for me.

The Series S was a bad idea from the start. Sure, it seemed like an amazing alternative at a cheaper price, but now that 3 years are about to pass since release, it is obvious that that decision is now biting them in the ass. Baldur's Gate 3 is a perfect example of it.

Series S is a fantastic machine on its own, but it's not very good when it's the lowest common denominator for game development. It gimps the games. They should just released a discless version of the Series X or sold the Series X for $400 and take the losses (they could of easily afford it, this is MS were speaking about) and never have released the Series S.

I am not sure what or how they will deal with it. Microsoft cornered themselves with this one for the long term imo. The sooner new gen starts, the better it is for MS so they can start on a clean slate again. But mistakes have already been made for this generation and now they are paying the price for it. In all honesty though, if the games likes Gears 6, Fable , State of Decay 3 are really good, then i don't think it will matter as much. All hope is on the first party for the positive press and outlook at this point.

 

[Bogroll]

I suppose it depends what the roadmap is of Zen is on how effective this can be. Ryzen 7600 is giving up to twice the performance of Ryzen 3600 in games. Xbox appear to be doing their own thing now, so even if they release in 2025 they might release another in 2028.
Creating a PC like mentality of my Xbox runs XYZ shit on my SX/SS I do need to upgrade eventually etc.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Xbox One X came out a year after the PS4 Pro.

They released X1X 17 months after the first serious PS4 Pro leak. Just in time to design (copy PS4 design mainly) and release it with immature tools. Because 17 months is not enough to create good tools.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

I think you live in an alternate reality.

I think that they at least tried it that way. For the actual results I have my own opinion that does not really matter in the discussion that I had about the eventual Xbox Pro.

The Series S was a bad idea from the start. Sure, it seemed like an amazing alternative zr a cheaper price, but now that 3 years are about to pass since release, it is obvious that that decision is now biting them in the ass. Baldur's Gate 3 is a perfect example of it.

Series S is a fantastic machine on its own, but it's not very good when it's the lowest common denominator for game development. It gimps the games. They should just released a discless version of the Series X or sold the Series X for $400 and take the losses (they could of easily afford it, this is MS were speaking about) and never have released the Series S.

I am not sure what or how they will deal with it. Microsoft cornered themselves with this one for the long term imo.

100% agree on that.

 

[twilo99]

I hope CD drives are completely gone with the next generation boxes.. what a waste of space.

 

[Bogroll]

They released X1X 17 months after the first serious PS4 Pro leak. Just in time to design (copy PS4 design mainly) and release it with immature tools. Because 17 months is not enough to create good tools.

What do you mean by "copy Ps4 design" ?

 

[Riky]

I suppose it depends what the roadmap is of Zen is on how effective this can be. Ryzen 7600 is giving up to twice the performance of Ryzen 3600 in games. Xbox appear to be doing their own thing now, so even if they release in 2025 they might release another in 2028.
Creating a PC like mentality of my Xbox runs XYZ shit on my SX/SS I do need to upgrade eventually etc.

This is what is would do now, disrupt the market by moving to a more PC style upgrade path, every 2 to 3 years.

 

[Physiognomonics]

What do you mean by "copy Ps4 design" ?

Architecture of the APU is basically a PS4 on steroids. Unified pool of fast GDDR5 memory and a lot of compute (and async compute) for the GPU.

 

[Bogroll]

This is what is would do now, disrupt the market by moving to a more PC style upgrade path, every 2 to 3 years.

Absolutely, no good competing head on with Playstation. Just do your own thing like Nintendo did.

 

[Bogroll]

Architecture of the APU is basically a PS4 on steroids. Unified pool of fast GDDR5 memory and a lot of compute (and async compute) for the GPU.

I would imagine they were offered that with Xbox One but as we know went with Esram.

 

[Sanepar]

Good luck trying to bring a new gen in 2025.

 

[VitoNotVito]

why would you want a SATA SSD, when a NVME SSD exists? Better GPU doesn't mean anything when you have a CPU that is ancient. The CPU will be bottlenecking everything. The CPU was the main culprit for both the PS4 and Xbox One. RAM was never an issue for either consoles, except for maybe the Xbox One because they had something different with it.

Yeah, no that's just completely factually incorrect.

RAM bandwidth and size is a big problem in Series S. One X was superior for both.
Also there's a bigger leap in HDD to SATS SSD than SATA SSD to Nvme. Also Xbox doesn't utilise Nvme interface fully.
You don't understand those things.

 

[reinking]

Another day another thread.

 

[Fess]

Well they pushed the Xbox One X a year after the PS4 Pro was out at $100 more and then took laps as if releasing a year later and with a considerably more expensive console was the work of wizards (in terms of it beating the cheaper and older PS4 Pro).

It would fit those timelines and allow them to claim they have the performance crown again (similarly to how they "have" it now maybe)…

It was a good strategy at the time, they nailed the power hype, made PS4 Pro seem rushed similar to what Sony did with PS3 against Xbox 360 pre-launch.
But I don't see that strategy working when they're so far behind, the PS dominance snowball has been rolling for quite some time now, they would be like 4:1 behind by 2025.

 

[Elder Legend]

RAM bandwidth and size is a big problem in Series S. One X was superior for both.
Also there's a bigger leap in HDD to SATS SSD than SATA SSD to Nvme. Also Xbox doesn't utilise Nvme interface fully.
You don't understand those things.

The amount of false information and brainwashing here some people try to create is quite staggering.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

This is what is would do now, disrupt the market by moving to a more PC style upgrade path, every 2 to 3 years.

That is what I feared that Xbox would do when they made public theirs plans to use the Series X as cloud servers. But they did not use that oportunity to make huge numbers of consoles. Going the PC/Mobile style would also have the default of not making it worth it to push the envelope in a particular direction, like Sony did with the SSD for the PS5. For example maybe by 2028 it will be conceivable to use HBM memory in a console. Or going from disk to SD cards. For the sake of compatibility it will be hard to make that kind of jumps first. But maybe the tech will evolve slow enough that Microsoft would be confident in predicting those changes and plan accordingly? PC already offer that so the gain would be small. I would prefer surface like products that would be more focused on the high end market IMHO.

 

[skit_data]

A me too response to Sony is possible

Phil Spencer accusing Jim Ryan for grabbing his ass via Twitter would be the ultimate strategic move, easily bigger than the ABK acquisition

 

[SABRE220]

So they are going the scorpio route, they will wait a year to push out a superior console to the ps5 pro the one x was an amazing mid gen console. That said this time Microsoft are going to have a hell of a time maintaining optimization efforts between the anchor that is the series s, the x and the xx. I think this gen is clearly going to be a long one considering the slow start so 2025 while late wouldnt be crazy.

 

[sendit]

The amount of false information and brainwashing here some people try to create is quite staggering.

X1X
12 GB of GDDR5 at 326 GBs

XSS
10 GB GDDR6 split with 8GB at 224 GB/s and 2 GB at 56 GB/s

Not sure if what the previous poster said is false information based on Ram setup. The split pool alone in the XSS looks like a nightmare to deal with.

 

[Elder Legend]

X1X
12 GB of GDDR5 at 326 GBs

XSS
10 GB GDDR6 split with 8GB at 224 GB/s and 2 GB at 56 GB/s

Not sure if what the previous poster said is false information based on Ram setup. The split pool alone in the XSS looks like a nightmare to deal with.

Never said the ram thing is not an issue. Overall, the Series S is a far superior console than the Xbox One X. Just because you have 2 components a bit inferior doesn't make it worse. Go read any tech article or watch a proper tech video.

These people are making it out to be like the Series S is actually worse than the Xbox One X when it is far from that.

 

[Stafford]

I hope its true because I will get it. I'll just trade in or sell my XSX and done. I am not against mid gen refresh. In fact, I wish generations lasted shorter.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

X1X
12 GB of GDDR5 at 326 GBs

XSS
10 GB GDDR6 split with 8GB at 224 GB/s and 2 GB at 56 GB/s

Not sure if what the previous poster said is false information based on Ram setup. The split pool alone in the XSS looks like a nightmare to deal with.

The Series X also has a split pool. Probally fair that they shouldn't have done that with the S.

At some point, Microsoft has to actually make money off of Gamepass. Selling boxes that you lose $200+ on isn't helping.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Cause the base hardware (especially S) is too outdated at that point - it's only 2 years left before PS6 and you would expect Pro console to last at least 3 years. Unless they drop S parity on its release and current X becomes new S.

Given that the Series S is the majority of their install base, that would be very foolish.

 

[//DEVIL//]

New hardware in 2025 doesn't make sense. It's too early for new gen and too late for Pro.

That's exactly the point. will render the PS5 Pro useless with all the R&D done on it and marketing etc. to be a total loss for Sony.

Sony wants to control the market the way they see fit and expect MS to follow, they want this generation to last 8 years or whatever using the same old architecture. MS is not having it. they will release new a gen in 2025 and beat Sony just like they did with the 360 era.

I for one, welcome a new generation every 5 years. 6 tops. 7 to 8 years is too much. I am ok with spending 500$ or so every 5 years for a new generation.

sucks to those cheap bastards that want their console to last forever lol.

 

[Horseganador]

It's so funny to see these "MS PR" on twitter praying for MS to release a new console in 2025 or 2026, Nick, Colt, etc... just when the PS5 pro rumors come out they come up with a Series X2 xDDD

 

[VitoNotVito]

The amount of false information and brainwashing here some people try to create is quite staggering.

You love talking about yourself.

 

[ManaByte]

The amount of false information and brainwashing here some people try to create is quite staggering.

 

[DForce]

Nick always claims to have inside knowledge about something every single time there are already existing rumors floating (in this case, pro consoles) around.

 

[Fess]

Absolutely, no good competing head on with Playstation. Just do your own thing like Nintendo did.

That could've been the plan originally. Series X/S right from the start, then Series 2, Series 3, Series 4, etc. Like Apple Watch. And 100% backwards compatibility. Maximum 3 years between the hardware upgrades.

But here we are, 3 years in and Phil said in an interview that he don't hear the community requesting a midgen refresh.
That might've been true at one time… But they can NOT sit on the original X and S if Sony have a PS5 Pro ready right when we're starting to see the launch consoles struggle and UE5 games are arriving.

They should've had a midgen refresh this year, ready for the Starfield launch to not push so many to play on PC because of the 30fps mess. A Starfield new console bundle. That would've been perfect. I would've bought one.
Oh well…

 

[skit_data]

That's exactly the point. will render the PS5 Pro useless with all the R&D done on it and marketing etc. to be a total loss for Sony.

Sony wants to control the market the way they see fit and expect MS to follow, they want this generation to last 8 years or whatever using the same old architecture. MS is not having it. they will release new a gen in 2025 and beat Sony just like they did with the 360 era.

I for one, welcome a new generation every 5 years. 6 tops. 7 to 8 years is too much. I am ok with spending 500$ or so every 5 years for a new generation.

sucks to those cheap bastards that want their console to last forever lol.

Sony controlling the market is horrible but having people upgrade their hardware every 5 years is somehow great.
You're pretty much saying you want to get rid of the console market, maybe PC is a better alternative?

 

[mrmustard]

Maybe that streaming box?

 

[squidilix]

Imagine to be struggle by the Series S even if you release most performed hardware than Series X and PS5 Pro.

And then, abandoned Series S and X and this "futur Series XX" 5 years later for be ready for the next gen.

Definitly the most dumb harware manufactures

 

[X-Wing]

Nick Sheepall doesn't know shit.

 

[mitch1971]

Did Phil write that script?

 

[Zok310]

They own ABK and Zenimax now, that allows them to be as late as they want to be wich is sad really.

 

[X-Wing]

This is what is would do now, disrupt the market by moving to a more PC style upgrade path, every 2 to 3 years.

That would be the stupidest shit to do and an endless money bleeding strategy.
2 to 3 years is what it takes for production costs on console hardware to decrease, so at the point that you could actually start making profit on it you would release new hardware that would have to be sold at loss.
Not to mention the money spent in R&D to release new hardware at that frequency, or the development issues that that would create.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Sony controlling the market is horrible but having people upgrade their hardware every 5 years is somehow great.
You're pretty much saying you want to get rid of the console market, maybe PC is a better alternative?

5 years was normal. every since the 90s days. it's only when Sony with their shitty PS3 and PS4 this has been shifted. it was always 5 to 6 years. PS1, PS2, SNES, N64, and so on.

8 years is fucking too long. imagine 5 years with the same phone and want to go even more using it. at least phones are expensive. this is a 500$ box with a controller.

I am all in bringing back new-gen consoles every 5 years. I am not a fan of 2 sequels in the same console anyway. I don't want "for example" 2 god of War games or 2 Halo games with the same graphics under the same system. Would rather have God of War PS5 and better graphics/audio/experience with a new one for PS6 and so on.

 

[analog_future]

$349 Series X digital and $199 1TB Series S would be a solid pairing.


Still feels like a longggg way from that pricing though.

 

[SportsFan581]

In 5yrs it might be the right time to just refresh the hardware completely. The concept of "generations" is quite antiquated and will just grow more meaningless with each passing year. A point painfully proven by the length of cross-gen support this time around.

I agree with that poster that said they should just jump ahead and switch to numbering the systems, count every Xbox they've ever built individually and go from there. Would put them at 8 or 9 or something like that. Xbox 8s or 8x and that kind of thing would be a lot easier to keep track of.

 

[X-Wing]

5 years was normal. every since the 90s days. it's only when Sony with their shitty PS3 and PS4 this has been shifted. it was always 5 to 6 years. PS1, PS2, SNES, N64, and so on.

8 years is fucking too long. imagine 5 years with the same phone and want to go even more using it. at least phones are expensive. this is a 500$ box with a controller.

I am all in bringing back new-gen consoles every 5 years. I am not a fan of 2 sequels in the same console anyway. I don't want "for example" 2 god of War games or 2 Halo games with the same graphics under the same system. Would rather have God of War PS5 and better graphics/audio/experience with a new one for PS6 and so on.

Funny. That generation was actually extended in great part thanks to the Xbox 360's success.
Microsoft also wanted that generation to last as long as possible to try and recover some of the losses they had with the RROD issue.

 

[MAtgS]

New hardware in 2025 doesn't make sense. It's too early for new gen and too late for Pro.

Series P, a portable XBox.

 

[drganon]

Funny. That generation was actually extended in great part thanks to the Xbox 360's success.
Microsoft also wanted that generation to last as long as possible to try and recover some of the losses they had with the RROD issue.

It's still Sony's fault somehow.

 

[Bogroll]

That could've been the plan originally. Series X/S right from the start, then Series 2, Series 3, Series 4, etc. Like Apple Watch. And 100% backwards compatibility. Maximum 3 years between the hardware upgrades.

But here we are, 3 years in and Phil said in an interview that he don't hear the community requesting a midgen refresh.
That might've been true at one time… But they can NOT sit on the original X and S if Sony have a PS5 Pro ready right when we're starting to see the launch consoles struggle and UE5 games are arriving.

They should've had a midgen refresh this year, ready for the Starfield launch to not push so many to play on PC because of the 30fps mess. A Starfield new console bundle. That would've been perfect. I would've bought one.
Oh well…

I see it has maybe it wasn't the plan and they've had a change of plan because it isn't doing as well as they thought. Plus all the covid shit.
All guess work of course.

And I'm not too sure if they acquired Bethesda soon enough to get a new console solely out for launch of that game.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I wonder if the other hardware will be the elusive streaming box or a Pro Console or even both.

We are due a new Elite controller as well

 

[Stardust_Dragon]

That's exactly the point. will render the PS5 Pro useless with all the R&D done on it and marketing etc. to be a total loss for Sony.

Sony wants to control the market the way they see fit and expect MS to follow, they want this generation to last 8 years or whatever using the same old architecture. MS is not having it. they will release new a gen in 2025 and beat Sony just like they did with the 360 era.

I for one, welcome a new generation every 5 years. 6 tops. 7 to 8 years is too much. I am ok with spending 500$ or so every 5 years for a new generation.

sucks to those cheap bastards that want their console to last forever lol.

I'm sure that will go well with the people who bought their Xbox Series consoles in 2020-2021 expecting to get 7-8 years out of it before Microsoft launched their next-gen console ...

"The Saturn is not our future" - Bernie Stolar (E3, June 1997)

"The Xbox Series is not our future" - Phil Spencer (IGN interview, June 2025)

Not to mention, Microsoft just spent all that time and resources getting their cloud server blades upgraded from Xbox One over to the Xbox Series server blades, and now they're going to do it all over again in just a couple years or so, since the cloud is Microsoft's (and by extension Xbox's as well) future after all?

 

[SportsFan581]

@Fredrik I think you are just really over estimating the importance of a mid-gen refresh. The base PS4 remained the better selling unit by a country mile over the Pro, the base PS5 would do the same. This is something only a very small % of the console market cares about to begin with. Not to say it's a bad thing to release one, because as long as there are some buyers for it, it's fine to make a product for them. But it isn't a make or break thing for anyone.

I would rather see a complete refresh of the systems on the Xbox side (meaning that the original systems are completely replaced by new performance targets). There would of course be cross-gen support for the outgoing systems for at least a couple years after launch, but you'd move the bar forward a lot more successfully with that approach. But, that would be a bold strategy to move away from a release schedule that mirrors Sony's, so we might just get a Xbox Series X Super X + released a year later as they did before.

 

[dotnotbot]

That's exactly the point. will render the PS5 Pro useless with all the R&D done on it and marketing etc. to be a total loss for Sony.

Sony wants to control the market the way they see fit and expect MS to follow, they want this generation to last 8 years or whatever using the same old architecture. MS is not having it. they will release new a gen in 2025 and beat Sony just like they did with the 360 era.

I for one, welcome a new generation every 5 years. 6 tops. 7 to 8 years is too much. I am ok with spending 500$ or so every 5 years for a new generation.

sucks to those cheap bastards that want their console to last forever lol.

Put down whatever you're smoking man, it's bad for you. Hardware doesn't get better as fast as it used to at the time X360 was released and no one forced MS to release X1 simultaneously with PS4.

Series P, a portable XBox.

That's not a bad idea I guess.

 

[skit_data]

5 years was normal. every since the 90s days. it's only when Sony with their shitty PS3 and PS4 this has been shifted. it was always 5 to 6 years. PS1, PS2, SNES, N64, and so on.

8 years is fucking too long. imagine 5 years with the same phone and want to go even more using it. at least phones are expensive. this is a 500$ box with a controller.

I am all in bringing back new-gen consoles every 5 years. I am not a fan of 2 sequels in the same console anyway. I don't want "for example" 2 god of War games or 2 Halo games with the same graphics under the same system. Would rather have God of War PS5 and better graphics/audio/experience with a new one for PS6 and so on.

Yes, it was normal. Probably because you could create a console way way way more powerful because hardware evolved incredibly fast.
We are not there anymore and we already have games that take 5+ years to develop due to the sheer complexity of them. How are 5 year console cycles work with that?
I think the trend we're seeing with longer console gens is pretty much the natural result of increasing development times and Moores Law no longer being applicable rather than Sonys evil machinations.
Besides that, a lot of consoles are sold to the more casual userbase when they get cheaper due to a model revision. That market base (which in terms of size is far from insignificant) would probably either drop consoles completely or only spend money on what will then be a last gen system.
Yeah, I don't know how this would all go together at all, seems more like a situation leading to the console market disappearing completely.

 

[nial]

Why would it be too late for a pro console?

Because it would only take 2 years for a console's traditional 7-year life cycle to end at that point.

 

[Ozriel]

Cause the base hardware (especially S) is too outdated at that point - it's only 2 years left before PS6. Unless they drop S parity on its release.

Because it would only take 2 years for a console's traditional 7-year life cycle to end at that point.

Eh, it's just one year later than the rumored PS5 pro. And there will certainly be a decent cross gen period, just like this gen.

People choose different points to get into a console ecosystem. Millions of PS4 consoles were sold in 2019 and 2020, for example, and people are still buying Switch consoles by the thousands in Japan today.