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[watershed]

I feel like we're playing the worst game of connect the dots ever. The picture just isn't making any sense.

My posts were much more reasonable earlier in the day. Right now I'm playing a game of "if 5 year olds ran Nintendo..."

 

[SpokkX]

I'm starting to think that the D-PAD won't even be a D-pad on the Wiimote Touch.

I'm leaning towards it being a completely redesigned Wiimote with no physical buttons at all aside from the Power Button. What if there was another touch pad, like a circle where the D-Pad would have been on the Wii-mote that could accurately record 8-way movement.

Quick mock-up i just drew. All black controller by the way.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I also think it will be a modified Wii-mote. But it will have buttons and sticks/dpad. A touchscreen will replace the plastic behind the buttons. Like this:

This is the most logical design, since Nintendo will shoot for backwards compability.

 

[VerTiGo]

BELIEVE



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Firstly, there is no way in hell Nintendo is dumping pointer controls. It's not happening. That was what the Wiimote did better than anything else it was designed to do. Secondly, the Wii HD will be backwards compatible.

In this latest mock-up, I added physical buttons for Start, Select, and the Home button. I'd imagine they would want to keep such things standard across the board and out of the hands of developer customization. Also, in order to keep development costs down, I'd assume they may still keep the nunchuck tethered simply because charging two different control inputs for a single gameplay experience is a bit ridiculous. Hell, they may even give Wii owners a break by allowing current nunchucks to be compatible.

This is based on good faith that touch controls have improved to the point to where Nintendo can implement it in a solid way. People have mentioned how much it sucks to play touch games on your smartphones and such, but I'll dare say that Kirby Canvas Curse alone makes me think otherwise, especially in developing technology in the hands of actual gamemakers.

A six inch touch screen on a controller is honestly a bit ridiculous, especially if its coupled with various buttons and d-pads and analog sticks. That just sounds like a monstrosity of a controller and I really doubt Nintendo would take a step backwards and make the control interface even more alienating. Especially when Miyamoto has contemplated the idea of a one button controller -- that just doesn't make sense.

I'm leaning towards the belief that many things have gotten lost in translation being based on early development kits. Nintendo is no stranger to keeping things secret even from developers with dev kits.

I have my doubts about this concept however. It's not a multitouch screen. So even if a second circular touch pad that can mimick both digital and 3D control is featured, when the controller is turned on its side for NES gameplay, for Super Mario Bros. you wouldn't be able to hold A to run and jump, that is unless 3D control is used for 2D games, or there are triggers on the back as a replacement.

Would Nintendo design a controller with no buttons? Yes and No. The GameCube had the beginnings of simplified control interface with the focus on just the B and A buttons, and the Wii took that further by having them essentially be only two buttons used when in pointer positioning.

If the motion recognition has been improved over both Wii Motion Plus and PlayStation Move, and if Nintendo's experience with touch screen interfaces has evolved through the efforts of DS game design, then I could see this being the evolution of the Wiimote. Furthermore, tactile feedback, in addition to force feedback to provide gameplay design cues 'n such, along with both motion and touch tech is the forward movement towards more immersive (physically) gameplay experiences. That is the whole idea as to why the Wii was such a success to begin with.

With that said, a classic controller will be available day one regardless.

 

[onken]

BELIEVE

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/4337/20110417035749.jpg[IMG][/URL]
.[/QUOTE]

Yeah and why would I want to believe in that atrocity.

 

[apana]

But do you really want buttonless gaming? I have that on my iphone, its way too inaccurate. and going with that haptic solution seems like a waste of money. It also ain't gonna impress anybody.

How do you know that haptic feedback wont impress anyone? Those guys in the you tube video 1000 posts ago seemed pretty impressed. Everyone will be like "holy shit there are no buttons on this screen but it feels like real buttons"! A wiimote with an analog stick and screen makes the most sense. It needs no buttons!

 

[FoxSpirit]

I also think it will be a modified Wii-mote. But it will have buttons and sticks/dpad. A touchscreen will replace the plastic behind the buttons. Like this:

This is the most logical design, since Nintendo will shoot for backwards compability.

That looks like a very plausible guess, well done sir.

 

[legend166]

If there's no IR pointing I'm going to be so annoyed.

 

[Freezie KO]

I truly hope they keep the Wiimote/chuk split design and pointer functionality.

That said, "the whole Wiimote is a touchscreen" sounds pretty bad. What worked well for pointer controls was that you could easily use traditional controls (analog stick, buttons) while you were pointing. That's what made it so great for everything from Elebits to Mario Galaxy to even Call of Duty.

If you remove the physical buttons, you're getting more simplified which is the antithesis of the supposed "recapture the hardcore" philosophy that has been echoed and even epitomized with the 3DS.

The Wiimote needs a way to have a clickable analog slider as the A button with four bean/GC-like buttons surrounding it. Then it's fine for any genre and game when paired with the nunchuck. It sure doesn't need less buttons. This whole six-inch touchscreen thing is really throwing me. Too big to just be a VMU.

 

[watershed]

How do you know that haptic feedback wont impress anyone? Those guys in the you tube video 1000 posts ago seemed pretty impressed. Everyone will be like "holy shit there are no buttons on this screen but it feels like real buttons"!

I agree it will get an initial reaction out of people but it doesn't seem like a game changer or anything particularly innovative. Its a new way of offering the same controls. Wiimote, Kinect, even Move offer new ways of controlling the game not new ways of pressing buttons. By focusing back on buttons in a new presentation instead of controls in a new way I feel like Nintendo would be going backwards not forward.

Also I just don't see the point. Allowing developers to make their own control schemes, design their own buttons, would be a nightmare for the consumer having to learn new control layouts and button configurations for each game? Not a good idea. The purpose behind the wii was making gaming easier not more complicated. But offer up some examples I'd like to hear something that incorporates haptic feedback in an innovative way.

 

[EatChildren]

If there's no IR pointing I'm going to be so annoyed.

Together we can protest.

 

[VerTiGo]

Yeah and why would I want to believe in that atrocity.

Well, there were USB ports on the WII that allowed for keyboard support for typing. Maybe they're let you use a mouse this time too.

I wonder what you thought when the Wiimote itself was first revealed...

 

[Freezie KO]

Together we can protest.

I'm in. I'll burn a bunch of dual stick shooters in effigy.

 

[VerTiGo]

I truly hope they keep the Wiimote/chuk split design and pointer functionality.

That said, "the whole Wiimote is a touchscreen" sounds pretty bad. What worked well for pointer controls was that you could easily use traditional controls (analog stick, buttons) while you were pointing. That's what made it so great for everything from Elebits to Mario Galaxy to even Call of Duty.

If you remove the physical buttons, you're getting more simplified which is the antithesis of the supposed "recapture the hardcore" philosophy that has been echoed and even epitomized with the 3DS.

The Wiimote needs a way to have a clickable analog slider as the A button with four bean/GC-like buttons surrounding it. Then it's fine for any genre and game when paired with the nunchuck. It sure doesn't need less buttons. This whole six-inch touchscreen thing is really throwing me. Too big to just be a VMU.

Yet, people claim that the iPhone will be the end of Nintendo in the handheld market...

 

[Freezie KO]

Yet, people claim that the iPhone will be the end of Nintendo in the handheld market...

I don't claim that. I just think your concept art is off, considering what Nintendo's current market goals appear to be. Not that I could suggest anything better.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I don't expect Nintendo to take a paid DLC route with any of their internally developed games. It goes against their attitude. However, here's hoping that Miyamoto drops the bullshit and embraces achievements -- and let's get custom soundtracks too please. Some things become industry standard even if Nintendo wasn't the first to implement it successfully.

Obviously, Call of Duty is going to be there... every year. That's a no brainer. So why not inlcude Madden, Need for Speed, etc... Hell, you are probably going to see Mass Effect 3 too.

I rather hope they officially call them cheevos. Would be too many lulz. Chances are -if they happen - they would have some sort of Mario or Nintendo theme.

 

[VerTiGo]

I don't claim that. I just think your concept art is off, considering what Nintendo's current market goals appear to be. Not that I could suggest anything better.

Nintendo's current market goals is to provide a platform that appeals for third party development while still being fully aware of where modern interfaces of ALL consumer electronics are going. It's not even about the hardcore gamer, its about giving third party developers the incentive to develop games on their platform and split their resources equally amongst three competing platforms of similar technical capacities.

The hardcore will still have their traditional game pads. If they didn't like the Wiimote the first time around, its evolution won't fare that much better regardless.

 

[Zeliard]

Nintendo isn't abandoning the pointer. If nothing else you'll simply be able to plug a Wimote + in.

It'll be more up to the devs to provide proper pointer functionality when there's also dual analog.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

This last page or two really makes me wish that DrGAKMAN wasn't currently banned. He spends way too much time thinking about these sorts of things.

 

[Freezie KO]

The hardcore will still have their traditional game pads. If they didn't like the Wiimote the first time around, its evolution won't fare that much better regardless.

If the Wiimote and 'chuk had enough buttons and dual analog (via a clickable slider as the A button), then what would be the protest? I'd hope that the hardcore aren't so petty as to whine just because the controller is split apart.

Ulimately, I can't imagine third parties being super excited about a new system that is just like the PS3, but a little bit more powerful, a little worse online, and all their customers have to buy the traditional pad separately.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

How is it logical for Nintendo to release a console as powerful as the Xbox 360?

Unless its Macbook Air thin, it is pretty much impossible.

Even "low end" tech evolves.

This reminds me of people predicting the 3DS to have 16MB of RAM.

 

[Always-honest]

Nintendo dumping motion control and zagging when everyone expects them to zig would actually make sense as a business strategy, but it would be a real shame. As many have already mentioned here, pointer controls were a legitimate improvement. And seeing Pikmin 3 with a control set-up that's a step down from NPC Pikmin 1 and 2 would be awful.

i think in the end, it depends on the game what control style works best. Even for FPS, i can think of ways that work better than the wiimote. For pikmin, i think Nothing will work more intuitive than a touchscreen.

Especially a customisable touchscreen with motion control.

I thin Nintendo might be going for more intuitive.

 

[Sadist]

Thead is going insane,

GAF vs. farnham makes me chuckle

 

[AniHawk]

In an alternate Universe:

yeah, i was thinking back to pre-current gen when the 360 was being shown off for the first time. there were a lot of people who didn't think it was that big of a leap. comparisons to riddick and all that. also, wall guy.

and at launch there were games that looked good, but not a whole lot of things that were mindblowing. graw was probably the first heavily hyped release that i can think of where people could tell there was a huge difference. fight night, too. part of it was because many (myself included) were waiting for the real next gen system, the one from sony. the one that had that tekken demo that looked better than any of the 360's games. ...yeah.

 

[VerTiGo]

If the Wiimote and 'chuk had enough buttons and dual analog (via a clickable slider as the A button), then what would be the protest? I'd hope that the hardcore aren't so petty as to whine just because the controller is split apart.

Ulimately, I can't imagine third parties being super excited about a new system that is just like the PS3, but a little bit more powerful, a little worse online, and all their customers have to buy the traditional pad separately.

Then they should be too thrilled about the Kinect or the Move then. Two alternative control methods to the traditional game pads that come bundled with the hardware, who's sole existence was to cater to an expanded market manifested by the abandonment of traditional control methods.

 

[Freezie KO]

i think in the end, it depends on the game what control style works best. Even for FPS, i can think of ways that work better than the wiimote. For pikmin, i think Nothing will work more intuitive than a touchscreen.

Especially a customisable touchscreen with motion control.

I thin Nintendo might be going for more intuitive.

What you're describing sounds like it'd control like Metroid Prime Hunters. Essentially you're looking at one screen (either the top DS screen or the TV) and you're controlling with the second touch screen.

I've tried both. A wiimote pointer is way easier and more intuitive. You never have to look down at it to orient yourself. No problems holding it or steadying it (like you need to hold a system/controller with one hand and a stylus with the other).

 

[Freezie KO]

Then they should be too thrilled about the Kinect or the Move then. Two alternative control methods to the traditional game pads that come bundled with the hardware, who's sole existence was to cater to an expanded market manifested by the abandonment of traditional control methods.

I think you meant "they shouldn't be too thrilled" about Kinect or Move. To which, I'd say that they probably aren't. Has there been any truly major support, particularly from the West for these platforms?

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

"Fan" is derived from "fanatic" and dedicated gamers tend to be big fans. Thus, everyone always wants gaming to exist primarily to serve them and them alone. Whatever it is their tastes happen to be.

Some might say "well who gives a shit, of course I want what's best for me! Fuck everyone this industry should revolve around me, then I gots the best of the best!"

Except that's a very immature and short sighted attitude. When the industry goes monoculture, it always results on games getting worse. Not better. A glut of first person shooters, or racers, or yes, so-called "casual" games just degrades quality across the board.

So the people damning "the casuals" or the Others, just want nothing but JRPGs or maybe sim racers or maybe WRPGs or maybe platformers or maybe 2D games - in other words, they want the industry to be the same wasteland for everyone else, that a supposedly casualized industry is for them.

Which is really a huge lie, anyway. People who complain seem to paint it as the industry is now "ruined" because there's Angry Birds players or Madden fans by the million, but the industry has never HAD so many games in such variety, choking every single genre.

Jesus christ... in the middle of this supposedly "sell out, casual garbage" generation, we've witnessed the complete and total rebirth of the arcade fighting game, the return to sales domination of the 2D platformer, and the mainstream success and awareness of the niche hardcore RPG like Demon's Souls.

And this is the "ruined by teh casuals" generation? Ha ha, get outta town with that junk. It's just childish whining by those who can't stand it when something they don't like is successful, even if that success is not taking anything away from them.

Nintendo fans can't complain either. They have been and are getting more and better "hardcore" Nintendo games this generation than they ever did with the supposedly "far better than Wii" Gamecube. You don't get to call Nintendo a sellout when they just can't stop making Super Mario Galaxy games and they invent an entire technology dedicated to making sure your grown up 'tendo games can be made super f**king hard.

Swear ta god, Mother 3 could come out in English in freakin' 3D on the 3DS and come with an arranged OST performed by the London Philharmonic... and it was released on the same day as Brain Age 3D, guys would choke up the interwebs cryin' about how Nintendo's a god damn sellout and just makes casual games.

Folks just want to bitch.

My God...this post...is perfect.

Nailed it in every response.

I love the "Nintendo has abandoned hardcore gamers" part. 2 3D Marios, return of console 2D Mario, sequel to cult classic rail shooter, return of Donkey Kong, new Kirby, new Wario, new Animal Crossing, new Smash Bros, new Zelda, 2 new Metroids, new Fire Emblem, and thats just the tip of the iceberg for the Wii.

Its true people really don't give a fuck.

 

[VerTiGo]

How is it logical for Nintendo to release a console as powerful as the Xbox 360?

Unless its Macbook Air thin, it is pretty much impossible.

Even "low end" tech evolves.

This reminds me of people predicting the 3DS to have 16MB of RAM.

Developers and publishers, from a financial standpoint are in no rush whatsoever to contribute even more resources to higher fidelity of visuals when its reach a fairly satisfying level of visual fidelity that the mass market seems to be content with, especially considering the success story of both the Wii and DS, which were both underpowered significantly in comparison to their competitors.

If anything, sharing resources amongst three platforms that are relatively similar in technical capacities will actually help drive development costs down for the development of HD games so we don't have to witness the closing down of even more studios and assets that get redirected towards the development of casual smartphone and facebook games.

 

[Freezie KO]

I love the "Nintendo has abandoned hardcore gamers" part. 2 3D Marios, return of console 2D Mario, sequel to cult classic rail shooter, return of Donkey Kong, new Kirby, new Wario, new Animal Crossing, new Smash Bros, new Zelda, 2 new Metroids, new Fire Emblem, and thats just the tip of the iceberg for the Wii.

I would like to give them special credit for greenlighting a sequel to ExciteTruck (which bombed) just because there was a hardcore cult following on GAF. Oh, and they probably knew ExciteBots would bomb too.

 

[Tornado Condor]

The controller sounds like a god damn mess. Graphics like 360? If this is true, i'm skipping this nintendo console.

 

[watershed]

I know this isn't exactly the thread for this, but I couldn't figure out which thread would be, and its definitely not worth its own thread.

Now, my question is, why have Nintendo been talking to Itoi sooooo much recently? I know they made it clear that there are no Mother games coming but why is he the go-to interviewer for Nintendo all of a sudden? Is he now a professional interviewer in Japan or something? Does he host his own Parkinson or Larry King like show?

 

[VerTiGo]

I think you meant "they shouldn't be too thrilled" about Kinect or Move. To which, I'd say that they probably aren't. Has there been any truly major support, particularly from the West for these platforms?

You tell me. What do NPD numbers tell you? The Kinect has relaunched Microsoft's brand to greater sales success than the 360's launch year.

 

[VerTiGo]

The controller sounds like a god damn mess. Graphics like 360? If this is true, i'm skipping this nintendo console.

See you in 2016. Microsoft and Sony might launch the PS4 and Xbox 720 by then.

 

[TUROK]

How is it logical for Nintendo to release a console as powerful as the Xbox 360?

Unless its Macbook Air thin, it is pretty much impossible.

Even "low end" tech evolves.

This reminds me of people predicting the 3DS to have 16MB of RAM.

If the rumored specs are to be trusted, its GPU alone will be well above the 360/PS3 GPU's, which will definitely yield a much better looking game.

It might not run circles around either of the consoles, so to speak, but I doubt the gap will be small. That is, if the rumored specs are to be trusted.

 

[Cipherr]

You tell me. What do NPD numbers tell you? The Kinect has relaunched Microsoft's brand to greater sales success than the 360's launch year.

Well...

Has there been any truly major support, particularly from the West for these platforms?

And to answer that, no. Not at all from what I have seen.

 

[NeoCross]

See you in 2016. Microsoft and Sony might launch the PS4 and Xbox 720 by then.

More like welcome to 2006 Nintendo.

 

[Freezie KO]

You tell me. What do NPD numbers tell you? The Kinect has relaunched Microsoft's brand to greater sales success than the 360's launch year.

Well, we were talking about third parties. I'd say that they wouldn't be thrilled about everyone having to buy a traditional pad separately. You said, then they wouldn't be happy with Kinect or Move either.

NPD numbers tell me that Kinect is a huge success, just like Wii Fit and Wii Sports are. But also, those games are primarily first/second party with the exception of a hit Dance Central, which is from a Japanese studio.

So if you're asking me what NPD numbers tell me about the question I posed to you (Re: Western third-parties), I'd say it confirms my belief that these third parties are not eager to jump into Move, Kinect, or a Wiimote with only a touchscreen.

And, of course, my larger point is that this contradicts Nintendo's supposed emphasis on the hardcore and enticing third parties.

 

[Tornado Condor]

See you in 2016. Microsoft and Sony might launch the PS4 and Xbox 720 by then.

That means i don't have to buy a new console soon! Nothing wrong with that. Meanwhile, Nintendo will finally step up to 360 and ps3 levels.

 

[VerTiGo]

Well, we were talking about third parties. I'd say that they wouldn't be thrilled about everyone having to buy a traditional pad separately. You said, then they wouldn't be happy with Kinect or Move either.

NPD numbers tell me that Kinect is a huge success, just like Wii Fit and Wii Sports are. But also, those games are primarily first/second party with the exception of a hit Dance Central, which is from a Japanese studio.

So if you're asking me what NPD numbers tell me about the question I posed to you (Re: Western third-parties), I'd say it confirms my belief that these third parties are not eager to jump into Move, Kinect, or a Wiimote with only a touchscreen.

And, of course, my larger point is that this contradicts Nintendo's supposed emphasis on the hardcore and enticing third parties.

And yet these same third parties are scrambling in order to be like Nintendo and Microsoft and successfully cater to these expanded audiences. If that wasn't the case, EA wouldn't have made all those acquisitions it has for the development of casual games and the like.

I don't think the generic third and first person shooter business model is working to well for them anymore.

 

[VerTiGo]

That means i don't have to buy a new console soon! Nothing wrong with that. Meanwhile, Nintendo will finally step up to 360 and ps3 levels.

Well, Sony and Microsoft had to catch up to Nintendo first. Next-gen started with the launch of the Move and Kinect. Nintendo is a little late.

 

[antonz]

Well, Sony and Microsoft had to catch up to Nintendo first. Next-gen started with the launch of the Move and Kinect. Nintendo is a little late.

Adding a new accessory is not grounds for a new generation. We are still in the 7th Home Console Generation.

 

[VerTiGo]

More like welcome to 2006 Nintendo.

This really amuses me. It really does.

Nintendo took over the industry and reshaped the landscape entirely to where its competitors had to adapt and find a way to capture this expanded audience.

 

[Always-honest]

What you're describing sounds like it'd control like Metroid Prime Hunters. Essentially you're looking at one screen (either the top DS screen or the TV) and you're controlling with the second touch screen.

I've tried both. A wiimote pointer is way easier and more intuitive. You never have to look down at it to orient yourself. No problems holding it or steadying it (like you need to hold a system/controller with one hand and a stylus with the other).

That's not what i'm describing exactly. I'm describing that they might try a lot with a touchpad.
The shooting in Metroid Prime hunters was as intuitive as it CAN get (tap your stylus on the exact spot where you want to shoot). There is no easier way.
But the camera controls were horrible. It wasn't perfect.

Maybe they can find a way to give every game the ideal set-up.

I ca imagine a touchpad being perfect for Pikmin 3 though.

 

[Always-honest]

You tell me. What do NPD numbers tell you? The Kinect has relaunched Microsoft's brand to greater sales success than the 360's launch year.

that's insane.. so many people fell for that shit?

 

[VerTiGo]

Adding a new accessory is not grounds for a new generation. We are still in the 7th Home Console Generation.

Sorry, this isn't the Rumble Pak or 32X.

Perhaps, simply releasing beefed up tech that solely evolves the gameplay designs introduced during the PSone and N64 era is not grounds of a new generation.

 

[-MB-]

Well, we were talking about third parties. I'd say that they wouldn't be thrilled about everyone having to buy a traditional pad separately. You said, then they wouldn't be happy with Kinect or Move either.

NPD numbers tell me that Kinect is a huge success, just like Wii Fit and Wii Sports are. But also, those games are primarily first/second party with the exception of a hit Dance Central, which is from a Japanese studio.

So if you're asking me what NPD numbers tell me about the question I posed to you (Re: Western third-parties), I'd say it confirms my belief that these third parties are not eager to jump into Move, Kinect, or a Wiimote with only a touchscreen.

And, of course, my larger point is that this contradicts Nintendo's supposed emphasis on the hardcore and enticing third parties.

Harmonix a Japanese studio?? That is new to me.

 

[Tornado Condor]

Well, Sony and Microsoft had to catch up to Nintendo first. Next-gen started with the launch of the Move and Kinect. Nintendo is a little late.

Kinect and Move are optional attachments, unlike Nintendos' wiimote and whatever the fuck this mess of a controller sounds. Starting a next gen does not mean that you buy an attachment for a console.

 

[watershed]

I can imagine a touchpad being perfect for Pikmin 3 though.

Why is a touchpad better than IR controls? Isn't pointing at exactly where you want your pikmin to go perfect for that game and RTS games in general? That's what I want in the next pikmin, pointer controls, not touchscreen or touchpad controls.

 

[VerTiGo]

that's insane.. so many people fell for that shit?

Yeah, I don't get Call of Duty either. It's not even half as fun as CounterStrike.

 

[Freezie KO]

And yet these same third parties are scrambling in order to be like Nintendo and Microsoft and successfully cater to these expanded audiences. If that wasn't the case, EA wouldn't have made all those acquisitions it has for the development of casual games and the like.

I don't think the generic third and first person shooter business model is working to well for them anymore.

I don't know what to say, except that I believe you're misinformed. EA is one of the biggest publishers and certainly wants a piece of all the pies. But this isn't new. EA published EA Sports Active on Wii, and it did well. But their bread and butter is still the people they wanted to sell Dante's Inferno to.

They spent a zillion times the budget of EA Sports Active on the marketing alone for Medal of Honor, and they're going to do it again for Battlefield just to try to get a tiny bit more of that Call of Duty pie.

And that's just EA. Looking at the other major Western publishers (ActiBlizz, Ubisoft) , the hardcore games are the strong majority of their investments, and they all hope to have the blockbuster hit.