mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I agree with all of this. It's your comparison to the PS4 Pro that I was talking about.
Rumour: PS5 Devkits have released (UPDATE 25th April : 7nm chips moving to mass production)
- Thread starter bitbydeath
- Start date
I agree with all of this. It's your comparison to the PS4 Pro that I was talking about.
Ok lol.. i always thought it was interesting Sony and MS put in customisations .. how can they know AMD GPUs better than AMD? Im guessing they are features noone can easily use on PC but console devs will actually use.
It's simple PC GPUs are not just for gaming & they have to work with so many different setups but when Sony , Nintendo & Microsoft create a console they can target different areas just for gaming & make changes that fit their vision.
John Peter
Banned
VERY NICE!
But, does it happen everytime in the console enviroment? Is it a result of a hard engineers work? Or is it a result of an amazing compatibility from APU construction? I mean... If PS5 and Xbox Scarlet come out with something around 10Tflops **User requested Ava-Edit: Add "GTX 1080(9 Tflops)" here ** we could compare this machines to a GTX 1080, maybe faster?
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LordOfChaos
Member
DemonCleaner
Member
what he probably meant, is that your excursus of x1x having superior delta color compression compared to ps4p is likely not true. ps4p and x1x both might use vegas render back end. and your links while being interesting don't suggest otherwise. and even if ps4p would use polaris' RBE it wouldn't make tons of differences, as vegas color compression is barely more efficient than polaris' (and still worlds worse than nivida's). even if that's the case, it really shouldn't make a difference as both consoles have more than enough memory bandwidth for their meagre computational power. bandwidth in GCNs context just becomes an issue with much higher end GPUs like Vega (which as my testing has shown - to a point - really benefits from higher memory clocks). if you set bandwith of the devices in relation to their respective performance you can see that:
TLDR: xb1x hardware features are neat. FP16 (wich you probably meant) is not useless. please keep that fanboy bullshit out of here. thanks.
Dontero
Banned
PC version they tested @ 4k runs at MAX settings and @ locked resolution with GTX1070
And you say that Xbox which doesn't run it at 4k but at dynamic resolution going from 1800p with console settings is somehow equivalent or faster than GTX1070 ?
XD mate i know fanboyism is hell of a drug but you should leave it.
Ar¢tos
Member
Does FP64 even exist? I can't see any reason for it to be created, at least for gaming.
Tip: If you want to be taken seriously, never start a post with "[platform] is a beast", that is pretty much the tramp stamp of fanboys.
what he probably meant, is that your excursus of x1x having superior delta color compression compared to ps4p is likely not true. ps4p and x1x both might use vegas render back end. and your links while being interesting don't suggest otherwise. and even if ps4p would use polaris' RBE it wouldn't make tons of differences, as vegas color compression is barely more efficient than polaris' (and still worlds worse than nivida's). even if that's the case, it really shouldn't make a difference as both consoles have more than enough memory bandwidth for their meagre computational power. bandwidth in GCNs context just becomes an issue with much higher end GPUs like Vega (which as my testing has shown - to a point - really benefits from higher memory clocks). if you set bandwith of the devices in relation to their respective performance you can see that:
TLDR: xb1x hardware features are neat. FP16 (wich you probably meant) is not useless. please keep that fanboy bullshit out of here. thanks.
PS4 /PS4 Pro is also able to use 64-bit rendering paths without being ROP bound because PS4 / PS4 Pro has 32 ROPs/64 ROPs vs Xbox One/Xbox One X 16 ROPs / 32 ROPs. but it's probably useless outside of running a second screen if devs don't have anything to show off the higher ROPs with & the lower bandwidth of PS4 Pro keep it from actually showing the advantages that it does have over Xbox One X like double rate fp16 & 64 ROPs.
SonGoku
Member
is a tiny amount of NAND really beneficial to games besides a small decrease in load time? i rather them spend all the budget on actual specs
MP!
Member
a small ammount of fast flash memory is a fairly inexpensive way to increase load times, reduce bottlenecks, and increase general performance without adding hundreds of dollars to the cost of manufacturing. Yes, I think it would be worth it.
(consumers can get 32 gig SSD for less than $20... So I imagine bulk chip cost would be pretty low) the way it works is the most frequently used files are saved to the faster Nand storage and can be called to ram MUCH faster than if it were cached on the HDD. Software decided which files go where and I imagine the console manufacturers (in this case Sony) could customize that even further to enhance the performance just for games.
onmy omputer it was the difference of waiting a full minute for photoshop to boot up ... or having it boot up almost instantaneous after the first load. Not only that since it isn't ram... it isn't wiped when you power down... those cached files are there the next time you turn on ... so it boots fast every time. I think it could be highly beneficial if the system was designed for it.
MP!
Member
pop in maybe... but I'd say that stuff relies on RAM and GPU and developer vision... but yeah... the faster you can load an asset to ram the less pop in you'll have... assuming the rest of the system specs can handle the amount of stuff on the screen.
I don't think adding some small NAND would mean you don't get better chips elsewhere... But I'm not sure that tech has outpaced these problems yet...
Load times, pop in, draw distanc, textutre fill rates, ... all of these things will continue to be a problem until the tech can out pace them... considering resolutions have consistently been scaling with hardware since the early 2000s it's not likely to outpace these problems until resolution stops growing and we can have a generation that can leap past that boundary like it used to.
LordOfChaos
Member
Mostly load times, but it also helps texture pop in and in some cases streaming related framerate (i.e the bus drop in fortnite can be stressful on some systems because it's trying to load in all it can at that point).
Shin
Banned
Revenge of the Secret sauce: https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/09/...-gaming-partnerships-with-sony-microsoft.html
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I think she reads the forums! No Nvidia for Microsoft then. I'm surprised she said anything at all to be honest and this just adds to next-gen starting late next year as I can't see her even acknowledging next-gen unless they are pretty close to reveal but certainly not well over 2 years out.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
When Xbox One and PS4 released in 2013, they both used 28nm GCN architecture which had been available for PCs since 2011. If 7nm Navi is released next year, I highly doubt PS5 and Xbox Next will release in the Holiday using this brand new tech. Most likely the consoles will release in 2020 when 7nm GPUs have been in the market for over an year.
John Peter
Banned
I think Xbox Scarlet and PS5 will come out using some AMD VEGA variant... Maybe a 7nm VEGA. I've heard about VEGA 20 coming out late this year.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Like I say (I'm fully aware I'm in the minority) I more and more think late 2019 is on at least for Sony. Just too many people saying things like Lisa Su and other small things that together add up.
As for comparing to last gen the first thing is Sony were much more conservative out of necessity (couldn't afford another PS3) and the economic downturn added a year to the gen. Those 2011 PC GPUs paper launched at the end of 2011 but only appeared at retail in March 2012.
7nm is here right now in volume not just on paper and for mobile (TSMC have a industry first dual track system. Mobile and HPC) it has been in HVM for months for the Apple A12 SoC. This will no doubt help with yields/knowledge for bigger HPC SoCs like consoles have. AMD will also have a 7nm Vega out before years end which they have described as a "pipe cleaner".
Talking of "little things" that point to next year for PS5 is that multiple sites/media have said without doubt Scarlet is 2020 and further backed up by the likes of Matt. Yet not one has dared to rule out 2019 for PS5.
If it for sure 2020, why not?
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I can't believe she (the CEO of AMD) actually used that term in the perfect correct context. LOLOLOL!!!!
Stuart360
Member
I honestly think some of you are going to be dissapointed with next gen. All this 12-15tf talk is a pipe dream imo.
If the consoles launched that powerful, that would mean 99% of PC gamers would have PC's worse than the new consoles, and would need to upgrade their PC's to keep up. When has that ever happened with new console launches ?.
Imo the new consoles will have a good but mid range cpu, 16gb of ram (maybe 20gb with 4 put aside for the os, and 16gb for games), and a 7-9tf gpu.
If the consoles launched that powerful, that would mean 99% of PC gamers would have PC's worse than the new consoles, and would need to upgrade their PC's to keep up. When has that ever happened with new console launches ?.
Imo the new consoles will have a good but mid range cpu, 16gb of ram (maybe 20gb with 4 put aside for the os, and 16gb for games), and a 7-9tf gpu.
Insane Metal
Member
Wow, that was a really good interview. Thanks.
pawel86ck
Banned
I remember watching interview with one PS4P developer, and they said they can only use FP16 for some simple postprocessing stuff but nothing more. In comparison to that xbox X GPU improvements just works. Like I have said, look at resolution difference between PS4P vs Xbox X, IT'S HUGE, and that's only because xbox X 6 tflops is more efficient because of better architecture.
Yes, I think 1800p and a little bit lower details should provide 30+fps (locked 30fps with occasional dips) from average 23 fps in 4K maxed out. But it looks like NXgamer was wrong and Shadow of The Tomb Raider is running ngame at fixed 2016p and it's not using dynamic scaling.
PC version they tested @ 4k runs at MAX settings and @ locked resolution with GTX1070
And you say that Xbox which doesn't run it at 4k but at dynamic resolution going from 1800p with console settings is somehow equivalent or faster than GTX1070 ?
XD mate i know fanboyism is hell of a drug but you should leave it.
bitbydeath
Member
Every gen?
Consoles set the new base standard and PC gamers have to upgrade to meet it if they're not already ahead.
How many PC gamers had 8GB Ram when this gen started?
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rəddəM
Member
2019 games need to breathe. A lot of confirmed and probably unconfirmed first party triple AAA yet to release.
HDMI 2.1 features still need to be supported by cables and TVs.
If Sony is smart, they will milk this gen and not rush the next, specially when they won it.
Very late 2020 launch.
U$450 maximum.
They (Sony) will probably focus on delivering CB 4k at 60fps, HDMI 2.1 features and with enough power to boost visual quality settings where this gen struggled (shadows, screen space reflections, A.I., anisotropic filtering, A.O., physical simulations, particles).
Special attention to the thermals and cooling, Blu-ray support for films, huge storage capacity, backwards compatibility...
Possibly PSN name change...
HDMI 2.1 features still need to be supported by cables and TVs.
If Sony is smart, they will milk this gen and not rush the next, specially when they won it.
Very late 2020 launch.
U$450 maximum.
They (Sony) will probably focus on delivering CB 4k at 60fps, HDMI 2.1 features and with enough power to boost visual quality settings where this gen struggled (shadows, screen space reflections, A.I., anisotropic filtering, A.O., physical simulations, particles).
Special attention to the thermals and cooling, Blu-ray support for films, huge storage capacity, backwards compatibility...
Possibly PSN name change...
You shouldn't since Shadow on Xbox One X isn't using the same settings that benchmark for the 1070 did.
SonGoku
Member
No, next gen will start late 2020 at the earliest
No way, we already know sony is helping develop custom navi
vega is old news
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John Peter
Banned
I think you've been so pessimistic. Starting from 7 Teraflops never will happen. SONY will never release a ''NEXT GEN CONSOLE'', with just 1 or 2 Teraflops ahead from Xbox One X 6Tflops. But in other hand I agree with that 15Tflops is something impossible. I believe that something around 10 ~ 12Tfops is totally possible.
I was making some calculations in terms of performance per Teraflop and I discovered that VEGA 64 12.6Tflops is 13 Frames faster than GTX 1080 running at 4k. So if SONY wants to develope a console at least with the same GTX 1080 performance, they'll need to build a GPU with 11.8Tflops. If we are talking about the current AMD VEGA performance per Teraflop. I know that GPUs not only rely on teraflops. But this is just a simple and amateur math with a lot of variables. I KNOW!
But if we're talking about next gen hardwares I would say that PS5 will bring us something around 10 ~ 12Tflops. More like 11Tflops to match the GTX 1080 performance that is a High End GPU in Late 2018 and will probably be a Mid-Range GPU performance in Late 2019 or Early 2020. Even if this performance won't be considered a mid-range GPU I would say that it's totally plausible to build a console with this power for a good price. Just take a look at Xbox One X that is an extremely powerful machine in late 2017.
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Salty Popsicle
Banned
Watch the video interview of AMD's CEO that was posted above. Both Microsoft and Sony are working with AMD to create the new tech or "secret sauce" that will be inside the next-gen consoles.
SonGoku
Member
So? amd is developing custom solutions for Sony/MS. No news there, consoles take years to develop
Claiming this is indicative of 2019 launch is just baseless peculation
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Calm down, mate! I don't think anybody is saying 2019 is a dead cert, just that it is possible/feasible and nobody (in "authority") seems to have ruled it out completely yet.
Would it bother you so much if one or both did release in 2019?
SonGoku
Member
I am calm, i just don't see how such speculation carries more weight than others grounded in reality, at this point its a guessing game with no clear indicator of were its gonna go
The other issue is how the logic of name dropping secret sauce for both consoles implies a 2019 launch for one console but not the other. Seems to me like cherrypicking to fit a prediction
Depends if it compromises on specs to get there, if they miss on significant gains to release 1 or 2 years earlier
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JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
What do HDMI 2.1 features do you realistically think they can take advantage of? It's going to be a while before 4K 120Hz. is a thing. Long while.2019 games need to breathe. A lot of confirmed and probably unconfirmed first party triple AAA yet to release.
HDMI 2.1 features still need to be supported by cables and TVs.
If Sony is smart, they will milk this gen and not rush the next, specially when they won it.
Very late 2020 launch.
U$450 maximum.
They (Sony) will probably focus on delivering CB 4k at 60fps, HDMI 2.1 features and with enough power to boost visual quality settings where this gen struggled (shadows, screen space reflections, A.I., anisotropic filtering, A.O., physical simulations, particles).
Special attention to the thermals and cooling, Blu-ray support for films, huge storage capacity, backwards compatibility...
Possibly PSN name change...
The only benefit of 2.1 I can think of that could be helpful is being able to send uncompressed 10-bit RGB color.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Well I think it a bit unfair/confusing to quote Salty Popsicle about 2019 when as far as I see they believe next-gen is 2020 and made no mention of 2019 in the post you quoted.
For me late 2019 makes sense for Sony because 7nm seems like it will be the last big % gains between nodes and costs are spiraling. Waiting another year or two if you want to stick to the $399 seems counter productive.
MS might risk going later with higher clocks and secret sauce along with a $499 price. The streaming device will cater to those who don't want to spend $499.
If you really are worried about compromised specs then a console probably isn't for you as especially now with consoles being lightly custom low/mid PCs they are by definition a compromise (of price, spec, power use). The first-party games are what separates them.
SonGoku
Member
I agree, i was scratching my head as to why he quoted me, i assumed it was backtracking to my reply of your earlier post
I think there are other factors besides vainilla 7nm. Like better yields and refined 7nm process allowing for bigger chips, less disabled cores, higher frec. Economics permitting for more ram etc.
Consoles dictate aaa games development, buying a pc doesn't fix this.
Toe-Knee
Member
Variable refresh rate /freesync & auto game mode /preset switching
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But imagine if Sony doesn't compromise on the specs just because they came out a year too early! We can have the best of both worlds.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
While that would be a dream scenario, I think it's just a bit too optimistic.....
rəddəM
Member
- Enhanced refresh rate features ensure an added level of smooth and seamless motion and transitions for gaming, movies and video. They include:
- Variable Refresh Rate (VRR) reduces or eliminates lag, stutter and frame tearing for more fluid and better detailed gameplay.
- Quick Media Switching (QMS) for movies and video eliminates the delay that can result in blank screens before content is displayed.
- Quick Frame Transport (QFT) reduces latency for smoother no-lag gaming, and real-time interactive virtual reality.
- Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM) allows the ideal latency setting to automatically be set allowing for smooth, lag-free and uninterrupted viewing and interactivity.
- Dynamic HDR support ensures every moment of a video is displayed at its ideal values for depth, detail, brightness, contrast and wider color gamuts—on a scene-by-scene or even a frame-by-frame basis.
demigod
Member
Anyone who thought MS would go back with Nvidia is delusional.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
All Sony would have to do is wait until 2020 to release the PS5. All the tech will be mature enough to get us what we really want. They need to chill and not "force" next-gen on us.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Like I keep repeating: Whatever release timing you want, it almost certainly is moot now. The release date would have been decided years ago whether 2019 or 2020 or some other date (short of some unforeseen catastrophe).
Way too late for Sony to read your plea and change their plans! Can't just flick a switch and change things.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
No..no...no. That's not what I'm saying. I'm hoping 2020 was in their plans from 2016 if not earlier. I don't expect them to change any plans if 2019 was their year. I trust in Mark Cerny.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Did you see Matt's recent post at the other place? Strongly suggests PS5 is 2019.
I still think Volume Rendering should be one of the biggest focus on PS5 hardware , I think that would disrupt console gaming add new gameplay ideas & bring back the feeling of the old console days before everyone was chasing after realistic graphics , Picture devs being able to make simple games like back in the SNES , PS1 , N64 days but now with early Pixar like graphics.
Pretty much what's going on in Dreams but with hardware to accelerate it all.
Pretty much what's going on in Dreams but with hardware to accelerate it all.
Insane Metal
Member
Can you educate me on that Volume Rendering thing? I have no idea what it is.
Instead of just sampling the surface of the scene the scene is sampled with depth. In my mind this would be perfect for revisiting the days of 2D Mario & Sonic like games & stuff like that but now with depth in the rendering so you could see the texture of Mario clothes & Sonic could actually have fur.
Klik
Member
I agree, if PS5 release date is indeed in Q4 2019 then by end of 2018 we should get some solid leaks about GPU and CPU
