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[GitarooMan]

Component is much better as it gives a purer signal. Less interference the better. HDMI will be great when it comes.

No they wont look worse. They will look better with component.

What do you mean by "better"? More detail and better color, yes. But I think what I meant to say is that some games hurt your eyes less when you the can't see the graphical flaws and details. They look "smoother", for lack of a better word. Note that I'm only thinking of older games here (mostly PS1 generation, stuff like Metal Gear Solid). I completely agree that for most of this gen games, component is better.

So there is no argument that technically all games look better with purer signals. But sometimes games suffer from this. As someone said shit goes in, shit goes out. But with a purer signal, more of the shit goes through and more of the shit comes out, resulting in an aesthetically less pleasing picture (not technically)

 

[dark10x]

What do you mean by "better"? More detail and better color, yes. But I think what I meant to say is that some games hurt your eyes less when you the can't see the graphical flaws and details. They look "smoother", for lack of a better word.

This is true, but I don't think it is the cables at fault. If you have a good HDTV, a low res game will appear low res regardless. With composite, it will appear pixelated, blurry, and will appear to "bleed". Component will remove some of those flaws, but the game will still appear pixelated.

I've always complained about the DC VGA box, but it wasn't the VGA output that bothered me. Rather, it was the display device I was using (a 19" PC monitor). The problem is that the image was so clear, that many flaws became more obvious. Change the display device while still using VGA, and you'll see different results.

Higher quality connections are always going to be superior, but the display device being used can have quite an impact on that image.

 

[GitarooMan]

This is true, but I don't think it is the cables at fault. If you have a good HDTV, a low res game will appear low res regardless. With composite, it will appear pixelated, blurry, and will appear to "bleed". Component will remove some of those flaws, but the game will still appear pixelated.

I've always complained about the DC VGA box, but it wasn't the VGA output that bothered me. Rather, it was the display device I was using (a 19" PC monitor). The problem is that the image was so clear, that many flaws became more obvious. Change the display device while still using VGA, and you'll see different results.

Higher quality connections are always going to be superior, but the display device being used can have quite an impact on that image.

Great point. The problem with PS1/PS2 games on large HDTV's definately has less to do with S-Video vs. Component and more to do with 480i images being upconverted by TV's that generally have a 1280x720 resolution. That's why I plan on keeping my older Sony Wega to play most of this gen's games while using my newer HDTV to play next gen stuff

 

[dark10x]

Great point. The problem with PS1/PS2 games on large HDTV's definately has less to do with S-Video vs. Component and more to do with 480i images being upconverted by TV's that generally have a 1280x720 resolution. That's why I plan on keeping my older Sony Wega to play most of this gen's games while using my newer HDTV to play next gen stuff

More PS1 than PS2...

Higher resolution PS2 games look great on my set (the scaler does an amazing job). Field rendered games such as Ridge Racer V are much sharper and cleaner than they ever were before.

It's the lower resolution (320x224 or similar) games that are a problem.

Of course, depending on your TV, both of those can be an issue.

 

[Deg]

What do you mean by "better"? More detail and better color, yes. But I think what I meant to say is that some games hurt your eyes less when you the can't see the graphical flaws and details. They look "smoother", for lack of a better word. Note that I'm only thinking of older games here (mostly PS1 generation, stuff like Metal Gear Solid). I completely agree that for most of this gen games, component is better.

So there is no argument that technically all games look better with purer signals. But sometimes games suffer from this. As someone said shit goes in, shit goes out. But with a purer signal, more of the shit goes through and more of the shit comes out, resulting in an aesthetically less pleasing picture (not technically)

Even RF cant disguise flaws that much unless your tv is REALLY rubbish. :lol

Regarding Video processing, it great. All my games are enhanced by it. Slightly better than progressive scan even when processed from interlaced. SC2 for example actually looks cleaner and sharper VS the actual games progressive mode as its processed and enhanced to a higher resolution!

 

[GitarooMan]

Even RF cant disguise flaws that much unless your tv is REALLY rubbish. :lol

Regarding Video processing, it great. All my games are enhanced by it. Slightly better than progressive scan even when processed from interlaced. SC2 for example actually looks cleaner and sharper VS the actual games progressive mode as its processed and enhanced to a higher resolution!

On another topic, don't know what kind of TV you have, but do you have any input delay issues (usually caused by upconverting)? I've heard that's a problem in DLP. I'm looking at LCD Pro sets like the Sony A10 where it's supposed to be less of a problem.

 

[Deg]

On another topic, don't know what kind of TV you have, but do you have any input delay issues? I've heard that's a problem in DLP. I'm looking at LCD Pro sets like the Sony A10 where it's supposed to be less of a problem.

I dont like LCD for home tv because of the response rate. DLP just doesnt meet my picture quality needs either. I prefer Plasma followed by CRT. I recommend splashing out abit as you spend alot of time with your tv. An extra $100 can go a long way sometimes.

The CRT has i have has aggresive video processing whereas the plasma is very natural looking and quite subtle when it enhaces thing making you not worry or think about it. No delays ofcourse. Audio is perfectly synced through 5.1 even.

 

[dark10x]

I dont like LCD for home tv because of the response rate. DLP just doesnt meet my picture quality needs either. I prefer Plasma followed by CRT.

The CRT has i have has aggresive video processing whereas the plasma is very natural looking and quite subtle when it enhaces thing making you not worry or think about it. No delays ofcourse. Audio is perfectly synced through 5.1 even.

I feel about the same way, only I prefer CRT to plasma.

CRTs have more variation, though. It took me a while to find one that really fits the bill. Sony really does make the best CRT sets. There is now no question in my mind.

LCD sets are by far my most hated. The slow response times and awful scaling really bug me.

 

[GitarooMan]

I feel about the same way, only I prefer CRT to plasma.

CRTs have more variation, though. It took me a while to find one that really fits the bill. Sony really does make the best CRT sets. There is now no question in my mind.

LCD sets are by far my most hated. The slow response times and awful scaling really bug me.

Yeah, I currently have a 36-inch 4:3 Wega CRT HDTV and it's great. However, I'm looking for a larger TV for a larger room so CRT sizes can't really cover it. I guess in the 50-inch range, plasma may be the way to go, although I'm concerned about burn-in. BTW, the new Sony LCD projections are supposed to have an improved response rate and black levels, better than direct-view LCD's

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

DVDs are not a good comparison, BTW. Note that there are no polygon jaggies, tearing or blurry textures in a DVD that are exposed using higher detail levels. In addition, 99% of DVD's are in 480p, where component is definitely preferable, while a lot of PS2/PS1 games are in 480i

This is true. DVD's aren't rendering at completely different image 60 times per second. Movies run at like what, 24fps? All they do with 480p is basically duplicate frames don't they?

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Even RF cant disguise flaws that much unless your tv is REALLY rubbish. :lol

Regarding Video processing, it great. All my games are enhanced by it. Slightly better than progressive scan even when processed from interlaced. SC2 for example actually looks cleaner and sharper VS the actual games progressive mode as its processed and enhanced to a higher resolution!

Speaking of video processing. I'd love to take GT4 at 1080i and run it through something like this dragonfly and downsample it to 480p or 480i.

I could be wrong, but it should make the game look incredible since the downsampling would act as Anti-aliasing. Not that the game isn't clean enough in 1080i, but I'd love to just try it out for the heck of it.

 

[Ryck]

Component, but you want see much difference on 20".

On an Lcd he will.

 

[C- Warrior]

Why? Even when interlaced, good component cables will generally give your a (very slightly) surperior picture and s-video doesn't support progressive scan. S-video was great in its day, but there's not a whole lot of point in using it these days on any semi-modern TV.

Yup. I used to game on a SDTV VVega, and even though it only does 480i, Component still shows a more crisp/vibrant picture than S-vid.

But for high-def, it's a no brainer--Component.

And I think I'm about 2 days late with my post response...=/.

 

[UK_Resistance]

Which PS2 games take best advantage of Component and Progressive Scan?

I just played the God of War demo and will that makes one that I know of

 

[Sanjuro]

Which PS2 games take best advantage of Component and Progressive Scan?

I just played the God of War demo and will that makes one that I know of

Tekken 5

 

[Speevy]

Question: I have an S-video compatible TV (no component). I used S-video cables with my Xbox and couldn't notice a major difference. I guess I just don't have much of an eye for it, or Xbox games are so clean anyway.

Should I buy S-video cables for my PS2?

 

[Sanjuro]

Question: I have an S-video compatible TV (no component). I used S-video cables with my Xbox and couldn't notice a major difference. I guess I just don't have much of an eye for it, or Xbox games are so clean anyway.

Should I buy S-video cables for my PS2?

I would say no. If money is no object or you can find them cheap sure. But the jump from A/V to Component is much more of a difference, especially if you didn't notice a difference on your TV with S-Video on XBOX.

 

[shpankey]

In other words, if you connect S-Video and think it looks worse than component you need to readjust your component settings. They are setup differently than your S-Video.

I think you got that backwards. You meant if Component looked worse than S-Video, then the TV settings are not right.

For the record, with my Xbox connected to the same input as my PS2 I notice my Xbox is WAY brighter with it's output than my PS2 is. This is why I have them on seperate inputs.

This is because the Xbox uses the American standard for it's black/brightness/greyscale setting and the PS2 uses the Japanese standard (which is darker by default). Each standard has a different output setting for it's brightness.

For the record... the PS2 setting is incorrect (unless you're in Japan). The Xbox uses the correct standard.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Question: or Xbox games are so clean anyway.

There is a little bit of truth to that from my experience with the two systems.
The difference between Monster Brand S-Video and Microsoft Component is very minimal.
I'm speaking standard 480i of course. Naturally, you want to enable Pro Scan via the Component cables if possible.

But if you have the money, and the TV, give both consoles what they really need to look thier best. The difference, especially on PS2 games, can be night and day.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

I think you got that backwards. You meant if Component looked worse than S-Video, then the TV settings are not right.



This is because the Xbox uses the American standard for it's black/brightness/greyscale setting and the PS2 uses the Japanese standard (which is darker by default). Each standard has a different output setting for it's brightness.

For the record... the PS2 setting is incorrect (unless you're in Japan). The Xbox uses the correct standard.

Well, thank you for the info, I would have never thought of that.
I keep wondering if a high quality RGB to Component Video Transcoder would further help the quality of console games? I know PS2 does RGB natively, not sure about Xbox or GC though.

 

[Apharmd Battler]

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Cheers

<thumbs up>