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Sega 3D Classics Wave 2 |OT| October: 3D Sonic 2

I

IronicSonic

Member
Yosuke Okunari is the best: "To use a rather mundane example, I would say that 3D Shinobi III and 3D Streets of Rage were Kaio-ken, this project [3d Gunstar Heroes] is M2 finally going Super Saiyan."
 
P

pixelpolygon

Member
My biggest question about Gunstar Heroes 3D - will the Western release feature the original, Japanese art, or the "Saturday Morning," Westernized art?!?

6jRqD4I.jpg
Click to expand...

The Streets of Rage games all feature the Western art, but if I recall correctly, Sonic 1 uses the Japanese cover.

EDIT: I may have just answered my own question while reading the developer interview - that looks like the Japanese art in the photo:

ExV9Knw.jpg
 
Sapiens

Sapiens

Member
pixelpolygon said:
My biggest question about Gunstar Heroes 3D - will the Western release feature the original, Japanese art, or the "Saturday Morning," Westernized art?!?



The Streets of Rage games all feature the Western art, but if I recall correctly, Sonic 1 uses the Japanese cover.

EDIT: I may have just answered my own question while reading the developer interview - that looks like the Japanese art in the photo:

ExV9Knw.jpg
Click to expand...



Yabbut, it's a shot of the japanese version.

Regrettably, the US release of Shinobi III also used the western art.

So, hopes are not high. Should have at least been a setting we could have changed. I'm enough of a crazy person where I think having the US art is actually a slight mark against these releases.

Also, no answer on fixed/free shooting being used simultaneously?
 
A

AmyS

Member
– By the way, how exactly do you divide up the background into 2,000 pieces or 1,500 pieces?

NH: It’s very hard to explain, but in the backgrounds, there are backgrounds that are closer to the screen and backgrounds that are deeper inside the screen. The way we’ve done things up to now is applying 3D to both the foreground and the background. By dividing these backgrounds into very small pieces and setting how deep they will be placed, things become 3D. For each level of depth, we’ve split them up into 8×8 pixel parts, and used that to create the 3D effect.

I’m going to geek out on you for a second, but it’s all about what extensions and additional features were added to the underlying Mega Drive emulator.
The Mega Drive had 64KB of VRAM, and so any data mapped past that is going to be blank. So we set up new VRAM bank past the initial 64KB, load the unconverted 2D graphics up, cut them into rectangles, and then lay those out into this new VRAM space. We take that graphic data and slide it around on screen to generate the initial stereoscopic 3D graphics. So, four background layers were added to the new Giga Drive, and usable VRAM is 64KB which is what Gunstar Heroes is running in, but since displaying 3D would max out the memory during the loads, we scroll while we are loading. Sort of like running them down a digital conveyor belt to be converted and displayed.

YO: Is it something like the “Giga Drive Super GFX”?

NH: Not Super GFX, but I guess it’s more like Revision 2? It’s just the fact that we want to add 3D, but there’s only 64 KB there!
Click to expand...

– So, you’re saying that you’re processing the regular pictures normally while processing the stereoscopic 3D in the background, right?

NH: Yes, that’s it. A real Mega Drive cannot access that space beyond the VRAM 64KB, but the TeraDrive* actually has RAM up there, so we just use it as we want. There are a few instances where that memory has been used before [in the history of the platform], but we’re using the excess RAM as a framebuffer for 3D processing.

And so, all this function is doing is sending out images that have been picked up from the original backgrounds and broken into squares. It doesn’t flip images, rotate them, or swap palettes; they are simply for making the stereoscopic 3D look more elegant.

* TeraDrive – A Japan-only DOS-based Mega Drive PC built by IBM that could play Mega Drive games. It was released in 1991.

YO: Originally, the Mega Drive could only handle scrolling two or three layers. The background where the player is moving within was one layer, then another as a static background, and from time to time there’s yet another foreground layer. We then take those multiple layers and repackage them into a stereoscopic 3D experience.

NH: And the hardest part, as I said earlier, was the background in the 4th stage with the angled perspective. It doesn’t converge on a point. The whole thing is diagonal, which makes the 3D conversion process very difficult. We really were at a loss on how to approach this, but I’ve mentioned, we were able to generate the 3D background by splicing everything up.
Click to expand...

Just for those who've never heard of Sega's IBM PC DOS compatible TeraDrive

0aKfqyX.jpg


Notice the MD cartridge port on the left ^
 
A

AmyS

Member
sixteen-bit said:
Is that related to the Amstrad Mega PC in any way?

amstrad-mega-pc.jpg
Click to expand...

Basically the same concept as the TeraDrive but Amstrad Mega PC had a more powerful CPU for the PC side of things, an Intel 80386SX at 25 MHz. TeraDrive had an Intel 80[/b]286[/b] at 10 MHz. There were apparently 3 different models of the TeraDrive and some sources list an AMD 80286 CPU, but I really have no way of knowing what's correct or not.
 
W

wackojackosnose

Member
YO: It’s just the process of converting a game into stereoscopic 3D is a step above normal porting. Originally, this project stemmed from wanting to make a Mega Drive Virtual Console, but these days just a straight port doesn’t really capture the attention of the 3DS audience. I mean, it’s been a rough time for the Game Gear Virtual Console games [on 3DS], you know. And so Gunstar Heroes was regrettable not chosen for a 3D conversion in the first batch.
Click to expand...
Ah, so that's what happened to the Game Gear games.
 
B

Bill Rizer

Member
Why were Treasure so damn great back then, and now they are almost dead???? They still have made two of the greatest games of the '00 i.e. Gradius V and S&P2 but now?
 
@

@MUWANdo

Banned
Bill Rizer said:
Why were Treasure so damn great back then, and now they are almost dead???? They still have made two of the greatest games of the '00 i.e. Gradius V and S&P2 but now?
Click to expand...

A lot of the key people who made all the classic Treasure games haven't worked there in quite a while and mostly drift in and out as freelancers, depending on the project. Nintendo greenlit S&P2 with the proviso that core members from the original team were present, but most of their games for the last 10 years or so have been made with a skeleton crew. (There was some drama during the development of Gunstar Super Heroes and Advance Guardian Heroes that negatively affected the company but I can't remember what, it's been so long).

There's also the issue of big publishers being less interested in financing original games and even licensed games, so there's not even as much contract work as there once was. I really hope they make a push for the indie market soon; they're a company that could really make waves on Kickstarter, I think.

Incidentally, there are a few ex-Treasure people at M2 nowadays, including the director of Gradius V.
 
I

IronicSonic

Member
@MUWANdo said:
A lot of the key people who made all the classic Treasure games haven't worked there in quite a while and mostly drift in and out as freelancers, depending on the project. Nintendo greenlit S&P2 with the proviso that core members from the original team were present, but most of their games for the last 10 years or so have been made with a skeleton crew. (There was some drama during the development of Gunstar Super Heroes and Advance Guardian Heroes that negatively affected the company but I can't remember what, it's been so long).

There's also the issue of big publishers being less interested in financing original games and even licensed games, so there's not even as much contract work as there once was. I really hope they make a push for the indie market soon; they're a company that could really make waves on Kickstarter, I think.

Incidentally, there are a few ex-Treasure people at M2 nowadays, including the director of Gradius V.
Click to expand...

Huh. Maybe tech people? That would explain a lot of things
I think

Hype from impressive 2d Bosses fights thread

v9zgra.gif


y0leRB.gif
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
I seriously hope Sonic 2 could be the Taxman version. I got it for free on the Amazon App Store & oh lord, I just couldn't stand the touch controls.
 
F

Firebrand

Member
Bought Super-Hang On. Plays well, shame there's no career mode even though it's labelled MegaDrive but I was aware (thanks, earlier poster in here). Gyro and 3D doesn't work very well together though, so gotta pick one of the two.
 
S

Solid SOAP

Member
Seeing those screens from Taxman makes me wonder why M2 weren't able to get widescreen working on their ports.

Oh well! I really hope they get CD and S3&K working on 3DS eventually. CD is one of my favorites and I haven't played Sonic 3 in forever.

EDIT: Someone on his Twitter recommended he release a collectors edition 3DS cart with all the classics on it running on his engine. Hey, if they were all quality ports I'd buy it instantly.
 
S

Starwolf_UK

Member
sixteen-bit said:
Taxman dropping hints

https://twitter.com/cfwhitehead/status/633961149327773696
Click to expand...
Since a full timeline is useful:
https://twitter.com/CFWhitehead said:
Now that 3DS home-brew doesn't need Cubic Ninja, it's been fun to have a tinker and get Retro Engine running in the last few hours :p
...
I'd need to put in loads more work to get stereoscopy working, but the new 3DS is quite a neat unit all the same.
...
Obvious disclaimer I'm only fooling around with my Engine here, please support Sega and M2 for the actual 3D classic releases!
Click to expand...
So it is an engine test via homebrew.

I understand the Sonic scene do various proof of concepts from time to time. The proper GBA port of Sonic 1 was Green Hill Zone only for example.
 
N

Null Pointer

Member
Solid SOAP said:
Seeing those screens from Taxman makes me wonder why M2 weren't able to get widescreen working on their ports.
Click to expand...

Basically, the goals of the two developers are different.

Taxman's version is built from scratch, and so there is a lot more leeway. His goal is to create this remake that's faithfully based on the original.

M2's version literally IS the Genesis version, with 3D added. It IS the original game, unaltered running on a virtual Genesis with 3D capabilities (aka the Giga Drive).

It's the same reason why 3D Fantasy Zone II W has widescreen, but 3D Fantasy Zone I doesn't; One is a remake, and the other is emulated. The game balancing has to be adjusted to accommodate widescreen, but in doing so, you are changing the nature of the game.
 
@

@MUWANdo

Banned
Solid SOAP said:
Seeing those screens from Taxman makes me wonder why M2 weren't able to get widescreen working on their ports.
Click to expand...

It's not a matter of could/couldn't, per se; it's more a matter of "we have a tiny budget and x months to get this done, we have to prioritise", whereas the Taxman ports are the result of years of unpaid work by Sonic fanatics who don't have to answer to anyone.
 
T

tim_pkmn89

Member
Starwolf_UK said:
Since a full timeline is useful:

So it is an engine test via homebrew.

I understand the Sonic scene do various proof of concepts from time to time. The proper GBA port of Sonic 1 was Green Hill Zone only for example.
Click to expand...

Even the tweet before that reveals that these are running off the homebrew exploits even. He doesn't have a developer's kit.
 
A

AmyS

Member
Some Galaxy Force artwork found on the PS2 disc (Sega Ages 2500 Series Vol. 30: Galaxy Force II: Special Extended Edition) found in the gallery.
It seems that at least some of it was from the FM Towns version's manual. I tried the best I could using the zoom function, please excuse the PlayStation controller symbols over some of the art.

bYMqIgK.jpg


yaVXvnT.jpg


x2tURid.png


kML0T3X.jpg


zQTnZ7X.jpg


sDyAup7.png


The 5th piece is my favorite. It is of course from the first level and you can see the entrance to the fortress in the center of that moon-planet
Death Star.

This extra stuff wasn't included in the 3DS release.
 
P

Percy

Banned
This is the one I've been waiting for. Will be buying as soon as I get home this evening :)

Take it it's unlikely we'll ever get 3D Alien Soldier at this point as well then?
 
W

wild wild rice

Member
Percy said:
This is the one I've been waiting for. Will be buying as soon as I get home this evening :)

Take it it's unlikely we'll ever get 3D Alien Soldier at this point as well then?
Click to expand...

Any particular reason it would be unlikely? That's the one I want the most!

Does anyone have tips for not running out of energy in Galaxy Force 2? I feel like I destroy tons of shit yet still run out by the end of stage 2. Luckily there are plenty of options to customize the experience (praise M2) so I can enjoy it, but I want to be able to do better on standard settings.

Yeah, I'll be copping that Gunstar as soon as I get out of work today. Charged up my 3DS last night for the occasion and found out I have $10 sitting in the eShop bank. Sweet!
 
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