Shoot the Core! - Gaf Shoot em Up (aka Shooter/SHMUP) Reference Thread
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sixteen-bit
Member
Great news.
Even with the great conversion rate, this is still kinda pricey to import. I'm sure it'll be cheaper in NA. Hoping for a retail release.
Even with the great conversion rate, this is still kinda pricey to import. I'm sure it'll be cheaper in NA. Hoping for a retail release.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
has there been a single Raiden V gameplay video
SOME-MIST
Member
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
Dope. UFO Interactive again?
sixteen-bit
Member
OMG @ Varstray
https://twitter.com/elixir68k/status/703096164556492801
https://twitter.com/elixir68k/status/703096164556492801
nailbombxx
Member
Looks like to me it has faster ship speed than the previous games. Good.
woof
shaowebb
Member
First I've ever had my main character threaten to buttfuck someone in a shmup while calling them a whore.
SOLD.
Bar81
Member
Is the game any good because that's some solid storytelling?
Question to shmuppers: I want to play Cave games, but seeing as how almost all of them are Japan only, (save Guwange and Deathsmiles?) and of those Japan only releases most are region locked, should I mod my console to play other region games, or get another 360 from Japan? The individual games and the collection aren't cheap, and neither is buying a console from Japan, but I don't want to get my console bricked or whatever it is Microsoft does.
Remembrance
Member
With a NA 360 you can play those plus Akai Katana, Deathsmiles 2X, Espgaluda II, Mushihimesama Futari, Dodonpachi Resurrection and Saidaioujou, and others I'm forgetting. That's more playable than not, I think.
If you want all of them, usually you'd get a Japanese 360. Or get a start on Steam with Mushihimesama, the first of the region-locked ones to come over.
It's not bad. I just feel the hit boxes are way too small... But at the same time you're thankful for it due to how damn hectic everything gets. The game is fast and brutal. But I'm pretty scrubby.
I also have a Jp PS2. Are the ports good on there or should they be avoided? I know people don't like stuff being 480i but I don't know their native resolutions.
sixteen-bit
Member
Arika's ports (Espgaluda and Dai Ou Jou) are terrific. The Taito ones (Mushihimesama and Ibara) are less so, and people do complain about the 480i in those.
SOME-MIST
Member
true tho arrange in the original mushihimesama (ps2) is more enjoyable than the HD version
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
I have to say I'm a bit disappointed that Raiden V still looks like an high res ps2 game (and no Gradius V at that), especially since there doesn't seem to be an arcade release? I mean, I think it might come in some way or another to arcades but still, not cool. I dunno, there's very few timeless 3D gfx shmups compared to the gloriousness of their 2D pixel art brethens (Ikaruga, Gradius V, Xevious 3D and.... ? Zero Gunner 2 maybe, I'd have to replay it tho. Strania looks really really good tho.)
No tate in Raiden V? I was afraid of that. :/
Kinda wonder how much it sticks to arcade design philosophies when I combine that with what I've heard of the Cheer mode and the kinda anemic-looking patterns I've seen from very brief video skimming. Hopefully I'm worrying too much, lol.
I'm not sure how much consensus there is. The series has five main games: DonPachi, DoDonPachi, DoDonPachi DaiOuJou, DoDonPachi DaiFukkatsu, and DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou.
On your PS2, your only options require modding or a Japanese console. The original Playstation releases of DonPachi and DoDonPachi are considered pretty good port-wise all things considered, and they're great games (DoDonPachi moreso) while also being on the easier side of the series. The PS2 release of DoDonPachi DaiOuJou is excellent, though note that it's maybe the most difficult game in the series.
With a European Xbox 360 you can get DoDonPachi DaiFukkatsu (which got a European release as DoDonPachi Resurrection) and DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou (which is region-free).
DaiFukkatsu's difficulty varies greatly depending on the ship you choose. Using the "Strong" ship type, DaiFukkatsu's arcade mode is the easiest in the series. The vanilla version of the game I don't like quite as much as most other games in the series, but it's still great. It's also worth noting that this is the only Cave game where I'm confident that I like the "Black Label" variant of the game more than the standard edition. I'm not sure if the Black Label DLC is available for the European release. Or maybe it's already included (like the DLC in the Deathsmiles international release)?
DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou is an excellent game, but be warned that it's up there with DaiOuJou in difficulty.
Kinda wonder how much it sticks to arcade design philosophies when I combine that with what I've heard of the Cheer mode and the kinda anemic-looking patterns I've seen from very brief video skimming. Hopefully I'm worrying too much, lol.
GenG3000 said:
I'm not sure how much consensus there is. The series has five main games: DonPachi, DoDonPachi, DoDonPachi DaiOuJou, DoDonPachi DaiFukkatsu, and DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou.
On your PS2, your only options require modding or a Japanese console. The original Playstation releases of DonPachi and DoDonPachi are considered pretty good port-wise all things considered, and they're great games (DoDonPachi moreso) while also being on the easier side of the series. The PS2 release of DoDonPachi DaiOuJou is excellent, though note that it's maybe the most difficult game in the series.
With a European Xbox 360 you can get DoDonPachi DaiFukkatsu (which got a European release as DoDonPachi Resurrection) and DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou (which is region-free).
DaiFukkatsu's difficulty varies greatly depending on the ship you choose. Using the "Strong" ship type, DaiFukkatsu's arcade mode is the easiest in the series. The vanilla version of the game I don't like quite as much as most other games in the series, but it's still great. It's also worth noting that this is the only Cave game where I'm confident that I like the "Black Label" variant of the game more than the standard edition. I'm not sure if the Black Label DLC is available for the European release. Or maybe it's already included (like the DLC in the Deathsmiles international release)?
DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou is an excellent game, but be warned that it's up there with DaiOuJou in difficulty.
deadscreensky
Member
Almost all of them are actually region-free or at least available for NA 360s. I think there's only three (and a half) exceptions, one of them (Mushihimesama) is now on PC and the rest on other systems.
I'm not sure of the current pricing for a lot of the import games, so in a lot of cases at this point it might make more sense to wait for a probable PC port. But picking up a cheap Deathsmiles 2X, Guwange, and Akai Katana wouldn't be a bad idea. I'd be surprised if they get ports anytime soon and they are cheap.
This might be an unpopular answer, but I'd personally start with the original DoDonPachi. It's probably not the best DDP game in terms of quality -- Cave has gotten better with time, for my money -- but in a lot of ways it's the purest and I feel it's still perfectly fun today. It's kind of the quintessential Cave game, and that makes it a great starting point.
But this is coming from the perspective that maybe you aren't too into the genre already, or at least Cave's titles. If that's not the case then I would go with either of the two newest titles, DaiFukkatsu (Resurrection in English release) or SaiDaiOuJou. Plain DaiOuJou has a lot of fans, but to me it always felt too cold and inaccessible compared to the rest of the series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI-5-95dFNk
Raiden V looks and sounds better than any other Raiden ever.
Raiden V looks and sounds better than any other Raiden ever.
It could just be that hype as hell stage 1 music talking right now.
sixteen-bit
Member
Yeah, the soundtrack bangs. 1st run copies ship with a soundtrack disc, right? I may import after all.
Jesus Carbomb
From Water into Guinness
Doesn't look as good as Raiden IV to me. V looks kinda bland to be honest, even the toothpaste laser has lost some of its sparkle. Say what you will about IV's gameplay but there's no denying that the game had some gorgeous backgrounds and ship designs.
I should really look into the European XBOX Live Marketplace and 3DS eShop more often... I literally just found out that both Caladrius and Steel Empire got released in EU, at a very nice price as well, especially the latter.
Speaking of which, guys, do you know if EU Caladrius has been censored in any way? I was watching a review for the US GoD version, on YouTube, and the guy mentioned the ripping clothes mechanics were toned down quite a bit, as well as the amount of voice over dialogue. Did the same thing happen with the EU release too?
Speaking of which, guys, do you know if EU Caladrius has been censored in any way? I was watching a review for the US GoD version, on YouTube, and the guy mentioned the ripping clothes mechanics were toned down quite a bit, as well as the amount of voice over dialogue. Did the same thing happen with the EU release too?
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
^^^^
Sucks that is seems they won't add Blaze as dlc like theupt had talked about before.
Steel Empire remake is great, wish there was a physical release or that it'd came to other platforms too.
Sales:
Galak-Z is one of PS+ games of March.
Dariusburst Chronicle PSVITA is on sale for 20EUR for ps+ members on EU PSN!
Dunno if the ps4 version is still on sale, tho it was 33 iirc (still a nice discount).
Galaga Legions DX is on sale for Gold members for 2,85 (tho I prefer the non DX version by a country mile).
Sucks that is seems they won't add Blaze as dlc like theupt had talked about before.
Steel Empire remake is great, wish there was a physical release or that it'd came to other platforms too.
Sales:
Galak-Z is one of PS+ games of March.
Dariusburst Chronicle PSVITA is on sale for 20EUR for ps+ members on EU PSN!
Dunno if the ps4 version is still on sale, tho it was 33 iirc (still a nice discount).
Galaga Legions DX is on sale for Gold members for 2,85 (tho I prefer the non DX version by a country mile).
ThePeoplesBureau
Member
DARIUSBURST CS sale prices end midnight tomorrow on Euro PSN.
Yeah, totally agree on that. No retail for Steel Empire is a shame.
So, should I pull the trigger on GoD Caladrius? I know it's stupid fanservice stuff, but I hate buying censored/altered games, especially since I could go for the Japanese PS3 version. Thanks again, fellow ex-nextgame-comrade! ^_-
Really appreciate the answers guys. I'm having fun messing around with a few demos on the app store and I'm going to be getting a couple games on 360 and maybe ps2 soon, depending on affordability and stuff. Prices get a little insane. I'm still not very familiar with the design or goal of the games besides dodging bullets so I'm curious to know how comes there's a ton of different rereleases, like 1.1, black label, etc. at high level do people get a kick out of redone bullet patterns and stuff? And Deathsmiles NA 360 is apparently a different game by shmup standards than the arcade release?
Are you sure? I seem to remember in that 10 or so game boxset that like 7 of the games were region locked, including deathsmiles and guwange which got releases here.
deadscreensky
Member
I own and play on my US 360:
Akai Katana (US release)
Deathsmiles 1 (US release)
Deathsmiles 2X (Games on Demand version)
DoDonPachi Resurrection (Euro release, DLC for this might need a non-US XBL account)
DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou (JPN)
ESPGALUDA 2 (JPN)
Guwange (XBLA release)
Muchi Muchi Pork & Pink Sweets Collection (JPN)
Mushihimesama Futari (JPN, and the Black Label DLC is available on the Marketplace for all owners)
It's basically like you said, some of the Japanese releases are region-locked, but those are probably going to run a lot more money than a cheap copy of US Deathsmiles or whatever. Outside of a somewhat annoying localization for Deathsmiles you aren't missing out on going with non-Japanese releases.
The original US release of Deathsmiles 1 had its slowdown dramatically removed, which did change the game significantly. But they later patched in a fix and the intended slowdown is back. It's undoubtedly still different than the arcade release, but to my knowledge that's true of literally all of their console ports. (I always assumed the intentional slowdown in the newer games would be controlled by software design enough that you could easily mimic it, but apparently that's not the case and it often really is them overloading the arcade hardware?) I wouldn't worry about arcade perfection unless you were planning to beat arcade version high scores. These games are accurate enough you can consider them authentic.
I'm not positive on the status of the Cave collection discs. I would assume those are the same as the normal standalone releases, but I'm not 100% (less so now that you bring that up, lol). When it comes to the standalone Japanese releases, you can definitely play Mushihimesama Futari, DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou, Muchi Muchi Pork & Pink Sweets, and the standard edition (not Limited) of Espgaluda II on a North American Xbox 360. You can also get Guwange on NA XBLA, an NA-compatible but still Japanese-language version of Deathsmiles IIX on Games on Demand, and there are NA retail releases (region-locked I think) of Akai Katana and Deathsmiles. Deathsmiles used to have significant speed changes in the US version, but that's since been patched to match the Japanese version.
I wouldn't get too worried about all the versions names you see flying around. My general advice is to stick to the most "vanilla" modes at the start. DaiFukkatsu and Mushi Futari had "1.5" releases in arcades because their original releases had pretty substantial flaws. The 1.5 releases of these are seen as the "standard" versions of these games, and the home ports are named to reflect that. As for why Cave made so many variants, can't say for sure. Super dedicated fanbase, I guess? They'd sometimes whip up one-of-a-kind game variants on a handful of arcade boards to get people to come out to their Cave Matsuri events, and I guess they saw Black Label releases as lower-risk projects (and maybe a way to turn around a game that didn't perform so well, like Ibara). It also makes sense to make and promote new modes for home ports.
Also, because you mentioned goals, I'd suggest playing Cave's games "for survival" (beating without using continues) to start. They often have complicated and satisfying scoring systems, and you might want to learn up on them a little bit to hit those extra lives, but don't go crazy on hitting high scores from the start. And on the flipside, I wouldn't credit-feed through the games, either. It's pretty great to see a new stage for the first time after building up your skills to get there.
deadscreensky
Member
This is good advice. I often credit feed once through the game at the start just to get a feel for the thing. After that it's generally more fun to play with one or two credits a go. (Two credits will tend to help you progress faster past any brick walls -- you won't just be practicing a couple unfamiliar patterns every run.)
Some of the Novice modes are surprisingly fun, especially if you otherwise turn up the difficulty. Like Novice Mushihimesama Futari on Ultra difficulty is actually pretty awesome.
ThePeoplesBureau
Member
SOME-MIST
Member
scoring is the goal of the game, tho as mentioned you'll want to start by playing for survival. scoring doesn't matter so much (other than for extends) if you can't clear the game.
the multiple versions will sometimes have different scoring systems (which can drastically change the way you approach the game), enemy placement, bullet spreads, and varying difficulty.
the shmups forum has a great strategy section that will explain the differences between versions.
SmiteOfHand
Member
CSC has unique disc art but to my knowledge the actual disc content is identical to the standard release. The big thing in terms of content is it comes with a disc that contains all the DLC allowing you to do a local install even if Xbox Live is shut off.
Not sure why anyone would go through that mess now though with the games coming to Steam unless you are seriously hankering for access to the entire catalog immediately. Mushi is plenty to keep busy with and Deathsmiles is right around the corner. And they will run on pretty much any hardware/laptop released in the past decade or so.
I'm hopeful about most of the 360 library coming to Steam, and progress has been fast, but it's still not a certainty.
But yeah Pizarro, in case you weren't aware, Mushihimesama (as in the original, the one that's region-locked on Xbox 360) is on Steam and Deathsmiles is coming to Steam shortly. Mushihimesama is a great port at this point, and having it on PC gives you a good amount of flexibility in terms of the arcade sticks you can use.
PantsuJo said:
I'd say all the Cave-developed 360 ports (all the 360 releases outside of DaiOuJou BLEX and Ketsui) are eligible, so yeah. Other releases are possible, too, but they'd take more work.
Again thanks for all the info guys. As for getting them on not on steam, I just prefer physical copies to downloads. And as convenient as steam is console is more convenient, lol. I will maybe get them on steam too if I like the games, since Cave seems like a company that needs dedicated support. And for super expensive ones like pink sweets/muchi muchi ports.
Btw, this is probably something that pops up every so often but how would you all rank the Cave games? Not necessarily all since their seems to be quite a few but the best of the best at least.
SOME-MIST
Member
you're gonna get mixed responses, but futari and ketsui have been near the top as far as general consensus goes (top 25 shmups annual voting).
progear is my #1 followed by ketsui, futari, ibara, muchi muchi pork and dangun feveron
The shmups forum has an annual voting tally of the most popular shooting games, so naturally several Cave entries fall in the top 25. I don't have a link handy, but it should be easy enough to find.
Edit: There is a threads of excellence sticky post and the list of annual rankings is there.
Edit: There is a threads of excellence sticky post and the list of annual rankings is there.
Seraphis Cain
bad gameplay lol
WinGameStore currently has Mushihimesama at 50% off ($9.99). I believe this is the lowest it's ever been.
http://www.wingamestore.com/product/5383/Mushihimesama/
http://www.wingamestore.com/product/5383/Mushihimesama/
SmiteOfHand
Member
Agreed, you don't have to go far to find the community favorites, and while I agree with those selections I'll instead go with Akai Katana doesn't get enough credit. I know it is hori and some modes are easy, but I still like a whole lot about it.
Great advice, thanks.
I've played Donpachi, Dodonpachi and Daioujou so far, but I'm enjoying Mushihime-sama much more than these, probably because the patterns are visually more complex, even artistic, but with your microscopic hurtbox and how the game cleverly guides you through them, in the end it feels satisfying. I haven't found that in the DDP, which ruthlessly throws things at you hoping you will eventually git gud.
Resurrection isn't expensive at all so I might grab it and go from there.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
I pulled the trigger (also learning that the Blaze update might indeed coming over and apparently it's already available for the jpn version? Can anyone confirm?but don't hold me responsible if it somehow ends up not making the transition because of low sales or something) and yeah, from what I remember of what little I've played of the JPN version of Caladrius, the clothes tearing mechanic has been toned down quite a bit
It also misses the "lewd" results screen and all the voice-overs, that's right even the "blaze!" announcer is gone and the intro is instrumental only, I guess it's a licensing fees thingie.But iirc Blaze on PS3 was also toned down and used the arcade version's art?
Either way advice would be that unless you're like me you should just wait for the PS4 release; "being like me" means that even tho you own and enjoy shmups all over (R4O, Ketsui and a bunch others on PS3, some on PS4, softmodded Wii for dat CRT+double strike rgb goodness and Progear/Dimahoo/Donpachi/Esprade, etc.), then soonish RV on Xbone...) in the end the X360 is your dedicated shmup machine and anything good that releases there you want to own it for the sake of making the most of it, all in one comfy place.
Actually I wonder if the *supposedely available*jpn Blaze-addon DLC is compatible with the US/EU game like it happened with Senko No Ronde and others? I mean, after all Caladrius PAL shares its highscore leaderboards with the JPN version of the game (and possibly US too), so maybe? That'd be awesome... time to investigate!
As far as I know the JPN DLC characters worked with the PAL game even before (now they're also available here so there's no need to go JPN-way lol) but neither the 8-bit soundtrack nor the gamepicks work with the PAL release
Guys please do chime-in if you know anything about that!~
Now, for the last bit... wait wait wait, whaaaaa?! I'm a bit ashamed to say I don't remember your nickname from back then even if I'd guess you've most likely worked there waaaay longer than I, but please do elaborate (maybe via pm if you're so inclined and it's no bother), you're too a former Nextgame-comrade?!
*And* a fellow shmup-aficionado? Next thing you'll tell me you also like pinball and Nintendo....
At the very list we gotta friend each other's Live/PSN/what-have-you! I need more nice and cool italian-speaking adults on my FL, I think the last time I added one was Marco/Mdk7 yeeears ago
Remembrance
Member
This is the first I've heard of this. I don't see it: http://marketplace.xbox.com/ja-JP/P...acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d802533007d0?noSplash=1
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
You caught me before my edit
Someone apparently might have mis-translated Moss' CEO tweets saying he was confirming a date and later confirmed they were available when instead looking over at I dunno what, maybe the JPN GOD download at ¥2700.
Sucks balls.
I'll try to link the sources so you may shed some light on it if you speak the moon language (I don't)
[Edit]
Here it is:
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1084558
Remembrance
Member
Well, there was indeed some confusion over that at the time. It was an update, but it was not the Blaze update.
It was adding a "1.10" mode that made the game easier, but it was still basically the same game.
Haha, check your PMs! ^_-I pulled the trigger and yeah, from what I remember of what little I've played of the JPN version of Caladrius, the clothes tearing mechanic has been toned down quite a bit
But iirc Blaze on PS3 was also toned down and used the arcade version's art?
Either way advice would be that unless you're like me you should just wait for the PS4 release; "being like me" means that even tho you own and enjoy shmups all over (R4O, Ketsui and a bunch others on PS3, some on PS4, softmodded Wii for dat CRT+double strike rgb goodness and Progear/Dimahoo/Donpachi/Esprade, etc.), then soonish RV on Xbone...) in the end the X360 is your dedicated shmup machine and anything good that releases there you want to own it for the sake of making the most of it, all in one comfy place.
And huge thanks for clearing that out, you spared me the disappointment to find it out myself (I hate censorship, it's truly one major thing I can't deal with, in gaming as well as in general).
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