Support NeoGAF

[walking fiend]

actually a legitimate concern if he kept trying to aim with the front of the wiimote pointed to the screen haha.

I REALLY mean it. Or else I don't understand what he means by IR control.

 

[kayos90]

Oh boy...can't say that I or others here didn't expect this.

Mirror Shield deflection should prove to be entertaining...SHOW ME YOUR RAAAAGE

Honestly, I found it strange that he took the entire weekend to post up the review and I feel like he was conflicted on how he felt about the game which was why he took longer than most people to post it up.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Let's be real here: most of us don't see a 7.5 game and think "Wow, this is a solid game!" Instead we see it as merely average, like a solid C on a test.

Does that number actually effect your purchasing and or interest incentive? And if so, why and how does that relate to the buying public at large (my larger point about the relativity of reviews)?

The number itself I think underscores the worth of the review anyway, but that's another argument. But if it weren't for #'s, we might base our opinions of said critics in particular and publications based on their writing/delivery/consistency/credibility and how they relate their opinions to inform the reader.

 

[guek]

Gamespot 7.5?

Pressure's off me. Fuck yeah.

snip[IMG]

[spoiler]<3 (though I probably will end up disagreeing with your review in the end)[/spoiler]

edit: actually, I'm not sure if that gif is appropriate for gaf (though I think gaf is where I got it from)

 

[harriet the spy]

Bingo. I've been saying this for years. It seems the games media for the most part always wants something new and fresh. They don't seem to care about great level design or great gameplay. They want Zelda to change to the point where it's just a Zelda skin but a totally different game. If you want change so bad, just play a different IP. Some people (myself included) actually like the tried and true and are just looking for more of it. Something that was fantastic 5, 10, 15, 25 years ago can still be fantastic today.

But post-OOT zelda is quite different - i feel - from pre-OOT zelda. I am simplifying things a bit (especially since I assume that Wind Waker was quite different from the OOT-MM-TP games), but it's not like Zelda never changed? To be entirely honest, Zelda 1-3 were my favorite games, and somehow I could never get into / enjoy OOT (I know this is a crazy opinion and probably reflects poorly on my taste, but that's how i felt). I never finished it (though I did go quite far). Never played any zelda after that (I tried OOT again on 3DS, but again did not enjoy it very much), but I will try SS.

 

[Hellsing321]

So if not for the GAF reviewers, Skyward Sword's metascore would be like 90-million right now.

It was an inside job!

 

[apana]

Do not give in to hate. Only the power of love can overcome a low review score.

 

[boiled goose]

If there is any game series that can be realistically pegged for being too samey, it's Zelda. The game has been around for over two decades and the basic formula hasn't changed too much. Now saying I agree with it necessarily as a bad thing, but I could understand criticism for it.

samey can be ok for things that are action centric and in your face fun.
samey puzzles and progression in an adventure game, not so much.

I REALLY mean it. Or else I don't understand what he means by IR control.

I do to.
it is possible he quite never figured out how the aiming was supposed to work.

(IR aiming would have been better of course)

 

[Raitosaito]

Games that are better or just as good as Skyward Sword (according to Gamespot):

Saint's Row The Third
Sonic Generations
Skylanders
Driver: San Francisco
Cars 2: The Video Game
Red Faction: Armageddon
Kinectimals
Fable III

I don't think I can make a plain face big enough to express myself right now.

We are now in the Uncharted 3 review thread territory.

 

[-COOLIO-]

have no fear, i am a fucking terrible writer.

if i did though, i'd be using the full ten point scale. people would hate it. in the reviews i've written for gaf they go:

mirror's edge - 10
valkyria chronicles - 9
super meat boy - 8
spirit tracks - 7
uncharted 2 - 7
sonic colors - 7
ocarina of time 3d - 6
kirby's epic yarn - 5
trauma team - 4
metroid prime - 4
donkey kong country returns - 4
heavy rain - 3

your opinions are terrible but this is exactly what id like to see from professional reviewers.

mind you you're average is still 6.61 which rounds to 7, which is still pretty high

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Is this thread getting out of contROLL yet???

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Can it really reach 20k posts?


Because that would be magical.

 

[Levyne]

If there is any game series that can be realistically pegged for being too samey, it's Zelda. The game has been around for over two decades and the basic formula hasn't changed too much. Now saying I agree with it necessarily as a bad thing, but I could understand criticism for it.

But...isn't that the point of a series? The formula hasn't changed, but the trimmings have.

I'm not saying Zelda games should be more of the same (That should be obvious but someone will read me that way, especially since I think Zelda is actually pretty varied).

 

[kayos90]

Well what weirds me out is that some reviewers complain about the controls while others say the game is better with these types of controls. I guess I'll find out myself very shortly

Honestly, control is all up to player. Even if a control is excellent in a game, a player will say that the control is very very good or it was just regular good. I feel like in this case, certain people thought for Wii control, it was really good. From what I've heard from McShea from the past years, it seems like he puts Wii controls on par with controller controls and expects the same precision. If it isn't well... It's not good. That's my take on it.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Man I don't know what's worse, Mirror's Edge a 10 out of fucking 10, or DKCR being a 4/10

But it also seems like a resume for Destructoid, so you may have a future yet, Anihawk

 

[walking fiend]

again though - is anyone who decided to pick the game up going to be swayed by this one review, even fence sitters?

i fully admit to being dubious about SS, but i'm STILL going to buy it - i just can't imagine that anyone on GAF was sitting waiting to see what Gamespot had to say before pulling the trigger on this one.

Was ANYONE waiting on Gamespot? Anyone? Bueller??

Not on GAF. Not for Zelda.

But this is pretty telling about those who care about GS review, regarding 'motion' control in general.

The game that was supposed to implement it the best, has a 'broken control' label.

duh?

And having played the demo which is not even from the final build, saying the game has broken control is 'TOTAL' bullshit, unless you mention re-centering which I don't know if is in the final build anyway.

 

[Beth Cyra]

For all of you complaining about the score, have you even read the review. It seems like he likes the game for the most part but inconsistent controls and stale elements of the series was what warranted it being not an excellent Zelda title. While the score is absolutely shocking, I think that his claim is justified. 7.5 is still a good game.

The text of the review is what I find wrong with the thing.

As it stands he has something that is factually not correct in it when it comes to IR aiming not to mention how certain spoilers are listed with no real marking.

Top all of this off his conclusion is at odds with itself. Saying that it's a simple retread of the formula and while that is okay he goes on to say it is an exciting ride so he is both reviewing for himself (if he does find it to be exciting, which I find no reason not to believe) and people who are bored of Zelda.

Overall I find the review text to be extremely weird, the score doesn't even matter to me.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Can it really reach 20k posts?


Because that would be magical.

If it does, Capcom is going to reveal the guy that gives away magic tricks.

 

[Big One]

i'd like them to go back to the basics and actually make a zelda game that's about adventure. i love the story in zelda games. i am a fanboy of the series that way, but i love the puzzles and exploration more. the first legend of zelda was inspired by miyamoto exploring caves and the woods when he was a kid. it's the only zelda game that's like that. shadow of the colossus had elements that felt more like the first zelda game in 3d than recent titles.

i think they should keep stuff like towns, upgrades, the story, and all that, but make the idea focused more on the adventure of it. i think the zelda team's grown stale. they look at the ds and go, 'how do we make a zelda on this? touch controls.' they look at the wii and go, 'how do we make a zelda on this? motion controls.'

they need to be inspired again. go out and explore, find that spark. or give it to someone who has that spark. the guy who made mario galaxy very clearly wanted to trade off.

Well lucky for you Skyward Sword isn't anything like you're expecting.

Though if you're expecting it to be nonlinear you will be disappointed, the game is pretty much Mario Galaxy levels of linear and is intentionally designed that way. However I think this is fine mainly cause the linear design is still very well made and everything really feels like a lot of effort was put into it. The game just oozes with content and level design that it really is Zelda perfection in that sense, but it isn't perfection when it being open ended. Then again I think that's one aspect 3D Zelda needed to let go mainly cause when it attempted to be open ended, it always fell flat on it's face as the more open ended parts in Ocarina of Time, The Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess are some of the worst in the entire Zelda series. Skyward Sword just takes the strengths of 3D Zelda, completely wipes out the fluff and old puzzles in favor of funner and newer ones, and recreates the base overworld design from scratch.

 

[boiled goose]

your opinions are terrible but this is exactly what id like to see from professional reviewers.

Man I don't know what's worse, Mirror's Edge a 10 out of fucking 10, or DKCR being a 4/10

But it also seems like a resume for Destructoid, so you may have a future yet, Anihawk

I will never ever understand Anihawk's love crush with the likes of Mirrors Edge (missed potential) and Klonoa (plain mediocre) and his complete hatred for Metroid prime (ok, maybe not quite perfect) and DKCR (flawed masterpiece)

 

[kayos90]

The text of the review is what I find wrong with the thing.

As it stands he has something that is factually not correct in it when it comes to IR aiming not to mention how certain spoilers are listed with no real marking.

Top all of this off his conclusion is at odds with itself. Saying that it's a simple retread of the formula and while that is okay he goes on to say it is an exciting ride so he is both reviewing for himself (if he does find it to be exciting, which I find no reason not to believe) and people who are bored of Zelda.

Overall I find the review text to be extremely weird, the score doesn't even matter to me.

I can't comment on IR aiming but he might've expected better controls, like I said earlier. He says the game is good and that the game is very exciting and that the game does feel like it sticks to the formula and as a result it hurts the game. Did I say that right?

 

[Meier]

For all of you complaining about the score, have you even read the review. It seems like he likes the game for the most part but inconsistent controls and stale elements of the series was what warranted it being not an excellent Zelda title. While the score is absolutely shocking, I think that his claim is justified. 7.5 is still a good game.

A 7.5 is absolutely a "pass" score, especially in the holiday season. I think it's a bit disingenuous to complain about elements of Zelda being stale if you claim to be a fan of the series. Very few game series ever change drastically.

FWIW, I didn't read the review and in fact never read reviews of movies or games because they too often have spoilers.

 

[Zekes!]

have no fear, i am a fucking terrible writer.

if i did though, i'd be using the full ten point scale. people would hate it. in the reviews i've written for gaf they go:

mirror's edge - 10
valkyria chronicles - 9
super meat boy - 8
spirit tracks - 7
uncharted 2 - 7
sonic colors - 7
ocarina of time 3d - 6
kirby's epic yarn - 5
trauma team - 4
metroid prime - 4
donkey kong country returns - 4
heavy rain - 3

I think the thread should be about this now

 

[Beth Cyra]

I can't comment on IR aiming but he might've expected better controls, like I said earlier. He says the game is good and that the game is very exciting and that the game does feel like it sticks to the formula and as a result it hurts the game. Did I say that right?

I didn't comment on his thoughts on Control otherwise, as I said that could very well be why the score is 7.5 and if so great, totally with the man.

The issues I said do stand out as odd for me given how his review is written, not when it comes to the score.

 

[nib95]

Man reviews are so all over the place these days. Having not played Skyward, or not even being a Zelda fanatic, I just can't see the game deserving such a score. But opinions, everyone has them right?

What I'm more worried about is this trend of inconsistency towards wanting new and innovative. I don't really know where journalists draw the line any more. Games like Fifa, MW etc regurgitating similar stuff over and over and barely getting a slap on the wrist for it. And then other games, often far greater in scope or game design, getting lambasted for it. The inconsistencies are so baffling I can't help but just disregard gaming journalism full stop.

That's not just because of Skyward, but other recent reviews too. You even have credible journo's like Sessler saying stuff like U3's MP being 'tacked on'. Having put 30+ hours in to it I can tell you that's the farthest thing from the truth possible. Then there's Skyrim. Heralded to acclaim unbound but littered with oft game breaking bugs galore. Especially the PS3 version which suffers from a bug that's been (I now hear) in other Bethesda PS3 ports too. Wth? Wish there was just one review outlet that had some basic form of over arching consistency, or at least justified differences between review angles better. I know some of you will say "different reviewers". But trust me, even among the reviews of single reviewers these inconsistencies exist.

 

[Levyne]

Well lucky for you Skyward Sword isn't anything like you're expecting.

Though if you're expecting it to be nonlinear you will be disappointed, the game is pretty much Mario Galaxy levels of linear and is intentionally designed that way. .

This... disappoints me..

I did not like Galaxy's level of linearity. And I'm not one to instantly use linearity as a negative buzzword.

 

[lazybones18]

lol, now I finally see the updated topic title

now I gotta go back and see the initial post reactions

 

[Apath]

Does that number actually effect your purchasing and or interest incentive? And if so, why and how does that relate to the buying public at large (my larger point about the relativity of reviews)?

The number itself I think underscores the worth of the review anyway, but that's another argument. But if it weren't for #'s, we might base our opinions of said critics in particular and publications based on their writing/delivery/consistency/credibility and how they relate their opinions to inform the reader.

No, this review (and all of the others) have absolutely no sway on whether or not I buy the game. I haven't cared about game reviews for years -- instead I listen to the people on this forum for their feelings and critiques of the game to form my own opinion. I'm just here because I find this an enjoyable topic to discuss.

But...isn't that the point of a series? The formula hasn't changed, but the trimmings have.

I'm not saying Zelda games should be more of the same (That should be obvious but someone will read me that way, especially since I think Zelda is actually pretty varied).

Well look at the Mario series. It has evolved and changed drastically since its first iteration. I don't think you could ever hear a credible argument for how Mario has become too cookie cutter, too samey, too stale. Now as I said before, I'm not saying I necessarily agree that the Zelda series sticking to the same basic template is a negative -- if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I can, however, understand that not everyone else would feel this way, and after two decades of playing the same thing, they now find it stale.

 

[scitek]

For all of you complaining about the score, have you even read the review. It seems like he likes the game for the most part but inconsistent controls and stale elements of the series was what warranted it being not an excellent Zelda title. While the score is absolutely shocking, I think that his claim is justified. 7.5 is still a good game.

Yeah, but from Gamespot, which still abuses the 7-10 scale for AAA titles, a 7.5 is pretty low.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Well lucky for you Skyward Sword isn't anything like you're expecting.

Though if you're expecting it to be nonlinear you will be disappointed, the game is pretty much Mario Galaxy levels of linear and is intentionally designed that way. However I think this is fine mainly cause the linear design is still very well made and everything really feels like a lot of effort was put into it. The game just oozes with content and level design that it really is Zelda perfection in that sense,

That's what I care, not what style they took but rather if it worked or didn't or whether it backfired or not.

I doubt I will think it did if the quality is there because I am not one of those people that thinks the games should be this or that, I actually will let the developers create their vision.

Now if it's halfassed in its linearity, then no, that's not acceptable for the standards I have for the series or company.

 

[kayos90]

I didn't comment on his thoughts on Control otherwise, as I said that could very well be why the score is 7.5 and if so great, totally with the man.

The issues I said do stand out as odd for me given how his review is written, not when it comes to the score.

I'm so confused now. Do you mind explaining in a more detailed manner on what you didn't understand particularly with the review because I don't think I'm interpreting what you're saying properly.

 

[The Lamp]

Holy shit, 7.5? Hahahaha. I can't wait to read this! (runs to GameSpot)

 

[AniHawk]

I will never ever understand Anihawk's love crush with the likes of Mirrors Edge (missed potential) and Klonoa (plain mediocre) and his complete hatred for Metroid prime (ok, maybe not quite perfect) and DKCR (flawed masterpiece)

mirror's edge is an extremely ambitious take on the platformer while keeping all of what makes the genre great. i still can't believe it was made in this day and age, and by ea no less.

i don't hate mp or dkcr. i dislike them, sometimes strongly. the only game that still gets me riled up is jak ii. my rating scale goes from jak ii to 10, with 0 being a step above because it is at least nothing.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I'm so confused now. Do you mind explaining in a more detailed manner on what you didn't understand particularly with the review because I don't think I'm interpreting what you're saying properly.

Overall I'm saying is his review is poorly written when it comes to telling the reader exactly how he feels.

Taking out the issue of IR which the game doesn't use.

He says how the game is a retread, but in the very next sentence is an exciting adventure.

Well if he found it exciting then he should be reviewing from that angle and not worrying about people who might not be into Zelda as much as before.

I also take issue with how he handles spoilers, though the writer himself has already commented on this specifically.

 

[Nintaiyo]

Maybe you should re-read my post, buddy. I am saying that you can call a 7.5 whatever you want, but in the gaming industry a 7 is an average game. They could have under the 7.5 "HOLY FUCKING SHIT BALLS -- BEST GAME EVER" and it wouldn't make a difference.

I do agree with your original point to an extent though: this game could very well be good -- nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't mean that I have to agree that a good game is equal to a 7. To me, and I'm sure many others based on how games are often reviewed, a 7/10 is merely average.

Different sites use different scales. Given that 7 is the "industry average", there must be some sites that skew higher, and some sites that skew lower. Gamespot could be one of them. People should read reviews fully if they want a true critical opinion. If somebody is the type of person to click a link, look at a number, and then make assumptions, it's their loss. And if somebody does want to simply look at a score, familiarity with both the site and individual reviewer are required. In the end, though, numbers don't matter all that much to me. And maybe that's where we differ.

 

[Hellsing321]

have no fear, i am a fucking terrible writer.

if i did though, i'd be using the full ten point scale. people would hate it. in the reviews i've written for gaf they go:

mirror's edge - 10
valkyria chronicles - 9
super meat boy - 8
spirit tracks - 7
uncharted 2 - 7
sonic colors - 7
ocarina of time 3d - 6
kirby's epic yarn - 5
trauma team - 4
metroid prime - 4
heavy rain - 3

You seem cool. Lets be frie...

donkey kong country returns - 4

I'M COMING FOR YOU ANIHAWK!

 

[Mistle]

have no fear, i am a fucking terrible writer.

if i did though, i'd be using the full ten point scale. people would hate it. in the reviews i've written for gaf they go:

mirror's edge - 10
valkyria chronicles - 9
super meat boy - 8
spirit tracks - 7
uncharted 2 - 7
sonic colors - 7
ocarina of time 3d - 6
kirby's epic yarn - 5
trauma team - 4
metroid prime - 4
donkey kong country returns - 4
heavy rain - 3

I don't know how serious you are lol, but I honestly wish reviewers wore score on a full 1-10 scale. 5 would be average. It just makes a lot more sense.
There's a lot more room to play with to show just how good/great/amazing a game is or vice-versa.

 

[Like the hat?]

One of the reasons I like Zelda is that it has that certain Zelda feel to it. I feel the same way about Dragon Quest. I don't want it to be some drastic change, I want it to just be Zelda.

I know a lot of people pine for a return to Zelda 1, but I don't understand why. Zelda hasn't been like Zelda 1 since Zelda 1.

In conclusion: Zelda.

 

[Medalion]

Basically it's an average Zelda game is the meat of what the review is trying to say

Not exceptional, just... a Zelda game, which is still a fun experience but compare to other Zelda's, it doesn't carry as much weight.

Suck it up, everybody's got opinions.

 

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

I don't know how one can hate and/or strongly dislike Metroid Prime, unless you have a hyper intolerance to back tracking. IT'S JUST SO GOOD!

 

[Lunar15]

Has Zelda ever truly been "non-linear"? The order of temples is pretty clearly defined, and the game forces you along a path, at least for the main part of the game. The only open ended parts are the sidequests, which seem to be intact for this game. Sure, in A Link to the Past you could do a lot of exploring by looking around the world, but rarely could you do much before getting the next item from a dungeon. Ocarina of Time and Majora's mask were even more linear in that respect, in terms of getting to dungeons it's a straight forward affair each time, with almost nothing in-between them (outside of sidequests)

 

[VALIS]

All these "they're just looking for hits!!" conspiracy theories. Wow!

Sites make top-whatever lists for hits. They post rumors for hits. Maybe a controversial editorial from time to time.

But I can't imagine anyone dictates review content and score based on website hits!

"Hmm, maybe if we're lukewarm on this new Zelda game instead of mostly positive, our hit count might triple for a day or two. And then we'll run to our sponsors and say, 'Look! When we review one of your products less favorably than the average opinion, our hits really shoot up for a day or two! So you should totally give us more money to review your games less favorably and thus, have our reviews and your ads seen by more people!'"

Only on a video game forum. smh

 

[Branduil]

How can people still hate on Metroid Prime after Metroid: Other M happened?

 

[Nintaiyo]

No.

You implied that one's status as a person who posts on NeoGAF somehow lessens the value of their opinion? Unless I misunderstood you...

 

[SirPenguin]

It's hard not to dismiss the complaints about the motion controls due to every other impression. A lot of reviews make mention that SS validates the concept of motion controls and the Wii in general, so I wonder if it was a hardware issue for him.

Docking it for being 'stale' bothers me just as much as it did when Giant Bomb made a similar claim. It's an argument that seems born separate from the rest of the review, a preconceived point they thought they had to include because this is long running series.

There is very little about SS, whether you're talking about the story or the gameplay or the overworld or anything else, that is similar to any other Zelda. At this point you're just calling a game stale for having the trappings of a game within its genre, and that just seems strange and disingenuous.

 

[Salih]

7.5/10 is a bit shocking but 'poor controls' is insane. I played the demo a couple times - i have never encountered laggy or imprecise controls. sure, you have to think a bit different - slaying with a sword is not just like pushing a button.

 

[Beth Cyra]

How can people still hate on Metroid Prime after Metroid: Other M happened?

I enjoyed my time with Other M and actually having Samus have a real character even if it did have some issues far more then I did playing Prime 1 or 2.

 

[Apath]

samey can be ok for things that are action centric and in your face fun.
samey puzzles and progression in an adventure game, not so much.

I think it goes far deeper than that, simply because the number of factors that can be changed, tweaked, and completely redone for every series is so extensive. I don't believe there is a way to generalize entire genres into what can and can not be "samey", because in the end, what matters is how much you enjoy the game.

Different sites use different scales. Given that 7 is the "industry average", there must be some sites that skew higher, and some sites that skew lower. Gamespot could be one of them. People should read reviews fully if they want a true critical opinion. If somebody is the type of person to click a link, look at a number, and then make assumptions, it's their loss. And if somebody does want to simply look at a score, familiarity with both the site and individual reviewer are required. In the end, though, numbers don't matter all that much to me. And maybe that's where we differ.

Hey, I'm not really disagreeing with your overall point. I just disagreed with your assessment that just because the review says it is a good game means that everyone will see a 7.5/10 and see a good score.

 

[Mistle]

Are there any other "substantial" reviews to come out or is the thread title forever locked at 7.5 now? lol. Will probably be good to look back on.

 

[AzureNightmare]

Not surprised by Gamespot's farce...I mean review. They have consistently scored games exclusive to Nintendo's platforms lower than the exclusives on other platforms. But 7.5? Geez, they must be struggling harder to stay relevant than I thought they were...