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[Vibri]

Sony regularly pulls shit like this with first generation consumer tech. Their first network walkman looked great, I bought it.... but it was a total disaster with probably the worst software... EVER. Then they released a new range, and left early adopters out in the cold with no way to upgrade the firmware/features.

Fuckers.

Having said that, SCE's products tends to buck the trend with elegant fast interfaces etc. Let's hope PSP falls into that camp.

 

[Jonnyram]

If I remember the hype correctly PSX is supposed to be "the new VCR for the 21st Century". It was supposed to be Sony's flagship product. It gained the PSX name because the PlayStation brand is the most important thing at Sony right now, and Kutaragi got where he is for the same reason. The PSX was basically supposed to be Sony's future in the home entertainment industry, but it didn't take off, and it never will if they keep shitting on early adopters like this.

You can't possibly think this kind of thing will never happen to the PSP. You are saying we shouldn't tar all Sony's divisions with the same brush, but do you have any idea which Sony division is responsible for this collosal mistake? Can you guarantee that it wasn't someone at SCE that made this decision?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I thought it was common knowledge that first generation Sony products suck and that those early adopters of these items run the risk of getting screwed?

 

[Jonnyram]

I thought it was common knowledge that first generation Sony products suck and that those early adopters of these items run the risk of getting screwed?

I still have my first gen PS2, and thankfully the drive is still running fine (touch wood). Memory card bit the dust a long time ago, though, with about 1000 hours of gaming saved on it

 

[MightyHedgehog]

My Japanese launch-day PS2 works perfectly fine...but not my US launch-day PS2 -- I had to buy a new one a year afterward...and that one won't read CDs very easily. My Japanese launch-day PS1 worked fine for about a year and a half...then *kaput*. Ended up buying another to replace that one before I started getting replacement drives outta China. My US launch-day PS1 worked great for about two years and then, I also had to replace it. I bought a MD player about 6 months after they were out in the 'States and it died for no apparent reason. My first DVD player was a Sony (1997-ish) and it died within 6 months...good thing I had a year-extended warranty, though. Needless to say, I am always wary of Sony's first-gen products.

 

[Panajev2001a]

You can't possibly think this kind of thing will never happen to the PSP. You are saying we shouldn't tar all Sony's divisions with the same brush, but do you have any idea which Sony division is responsible for this collosal mistake? Can you guarantee that it wasn't someone at SCE that made this decision?

I can accept this kind of argumentation, not just DOOM + GLOOM crying.

No, I do not believe that PSX was Sony's future right now: too pricey and too niche. It is a start, but not the final step.

They attached the PlayStation name to help it sell, SCE is not in direct control of it: IIRC SEL got the control of PSX applications and Software away from SCE a while ago (they do not have PlayStation 2 guys working on it anymore).

They used PlayStation 2 hardware for two reasons: it is fast at what it does, but most of all to share R&D resources (they were developing the 90 nm process and the EE+GS@90 nm independently of PSX) that went into powering up SCE's manufacturing capabilities (yes, it was part of the plan of writing off their R&D into Sony Electronics and other parts of Sony).

Sony has fucked, but I hope that they will learn from their mistakes.

Why don't you guys e-mail, write official letters to Sony with these arguments ?

 

[Dragona Akehi]

I can accept this kind of argumentation, not just DOOM + GLOOM crying.

No, I do not believe that PSX was Sony's future right now: too pricey and too niche. It is a start, but not the final step.

They attached the PlayStation name to help it sell, SCE is not in direct control of it: IIRC SEL got the control of PSX applications and Software away from SCE a while ago (they do not have PlayStation 2 guys working on it anymore).

They used PlayStation 2 hardware for two reasons: it is fast at what it does, but most of all to share R&D resources (they were developing the 90 nm process and the EE+GS@90 nm independently of PSX) that went into powering up SCE's manufacturing capabilities (yes, it was part of the plan of writing off their R&D into Sony Electronics and other parts of Sony).

Sony has fucked, but I hope that they will learn from their mistakes.

Why don't you guys e-mail, write official letters to Sony with these arguments ?

The problem is Pana, that THEY AREN'T SAYING DOOM AND GLOOM. THEY ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE HARDWARE PROBLEMS SONY PROMISED TO FIX. At the very worst they're mentioning how 1st generation Sony hardware isn't always the best version...

THAT IS NOT DOOM AND GLOOM.

Yeesh man.

Oh and don't email. Phone or bitch in person. You'll feel better, at least until security drags you away.

 

[Panajev2001a]

No Dragona.

not only was this a promised feature, it would be PISS EASY to implement. The PSX already has a search by keyword function (for the ONE WEEK of terrestrial only data it can handle - no Cable support) so all they'd need to do is tack on something that autosearches your keyword list and autoupdates your record list. It's hardly rocket science, and the fact that (a year later) Sony STILL haven't figured this out makes me think that while they can make great Hardware with their eyes shut, they can't code software to any great degree of aptitude.

and more...

 

[JackFrost2012]

I was wondering what Sony hardware of the last three years have had a good interface, in your opinion? Since you seem so keen on shutting this line of argument down, I'm curious as to your counterexamples...

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Considering how the PSX ended up, I don't blame him for saying that. Just because you seperate every single Sony team doesn't mean that everyone else does. When he's saying "SONY" there he means "FUCKTARDS WHO FUCKED UP MY GODDAMN 700$ SYSTEM".

At least, that's what it implies to my reading.

 

[DCharlie]

The PSX is Sony's first intergrated games/multimedia machine.
PSP is the second.

The PSX has shite software. That's really the end of it.

So their ability to code systems to handle these sort of set ups has been an utter sham, compounded by a fucking SHOCKING decission to fuck everyone over.

If the Sony coders are so great, why can't they address the issues that still exist with the PSX? I had issues with the PS2 (Memory card handling bug, shitty DVD interface) also (just to complete my picture of hate).

But i will retract that this is one persons/departments issue. Because there are a lot people been involved in the decissions to what to do with the PSX line, so i'd say there a lot of people who SUCK at sony at the moment.

Apparently, Kuturagi uses the PSX at home... obviously not a technophile....

 

[Panajev2001a]

I was wondering what Sony hardware of the last three years have had a good interface, in your opinion? Since you seem so keen on shutting this line of argument down, I'm curious as to your counterexamples...

Good interface in what sense ?

Aesthetic ?

Functionality ?

Speed ?

Now ask yourself genious which one is programmer's related.

If programmers were the solution to all problems Linux would not have a bunch of disconnected and quite shitty GUIs.

 

[JackFrost2012]

Good interface in what sense ?

Aesthetic ?

Functionality ?

Speed ?

Now ask yourself genious which one is programmer's related.

If programmers were the solution to all problems Linux would not have a bunch of disconnected and quite shitty GUIs.

No need to get personal.

The answer to your question is yes, yes, and yes: a good interface should present information clearly, allow users to perform the tasks they want to easily, and not spend time hindering what the user wants to do.

And where did I mention programmers? Oh, that's right, I didn't. So step off. I said that the interfaces came from "Sony," not from "Sony's programmers" or "Sony's incompetent asshole programmers."

I reiterate my question: what Sony hardware in the past three years has, in your opinion, shipped with a functional, useful, and usable software interface to those hardware functions?

 

[Panajev2001a]

The PSX is Sony's first intergrated games/multimedia machine.
PSP is the second.

The PSX has shite software. That's really the end of it.

So their ability to code systems to handle these sort of set ups has been an utter sham, compounded by a fucking SHOCKING decission to fuck everyone over.

If the Sony coders are so great, why can't they address the issues that still exist with the PSX? I had issues with the PS2 (Memory card handling bug, shitty DVD interface) also (just to complete my picture of hate).

But i will retract that this is one persons/departments issue. Because there are a lot people been involved in the decissions to what to do with the PSX line, so i'd say there a lot of people who SUCK at sony at the moment.

Apparently, Kuturagi uses the PSX at home... obviously not a technophile....

The problm is not their coders in their coding ability. The issue with the interface is a GUI design issue both in terms of responsiviness and usability.

You never thought about a scenario in which the bosses told the PSX software group to move on with the new updates, took the updates and decided not to apply them in any way to the older model for marketing reasons (to make the new model even better in people's eyes).

Stupid decision and I do not appreciate it either, but before saying that they simply have shitty programmers in general, I'd be a bit more careful.




About Ken Kutaragi, maybe he likes it because he is not too picky or maybe because he got it for free .

 

[M3wThr33]

What about their Clies? (The ones they no longer sell in the USA due to poor sales)
They released the original Clie and it did ok.
Then they showed up with the Clie PEG N710C. 320x320 displaye (4x that of normal palms), mp3 playback, jog dial, MS port, but 256-colors.
A couple months down the line, they announce the PEG N760C. The only difference? 16-bit color.

"So what?" you ask? Well, I'll tell you what. People got the new 760's and began checking it out. It was the EXACT SAME HARDWARE as the 710, just with updated firmware. People moaned and bitched to Sony to offer the firmware upgrade, but they said no.

Hackers made their own program to do it and within a week Sony offered a "deal" where if you bought a 710 anytime in the last month before the 760 came out, they'll upgrade it for free. Otherwise, it's $50.

Yeah, sure, a "deal." I wanted a PEG710C. Then I wanted the 760. Every 3 months they released a new Clie or two, rendering the previous ones obsolete. After at least 30 revisions of it in 3 years they still never managed to get it right and find one that appealed to people with money. I have no faith in the PSP after the failure of the Clies, the PSX, the PS2's quality and their previously-mp3less ipod-killers.

 

[Panajev2001a]

No need to get personal.

The answer to your question is yes, yes, and yes: a good interface should present information clearly, allow users to perform the tasks they want to easily, and not spend time hindering what the user wants to do.

And where did I mention programmers? Oh, that's right, I didn't. So step off. I said that the interfaces came from "Sony," not from "Sony's programmers" or "Sony's incompetent asshole programmers."

I reiterate my question: what Sony hardware in the past three years has, in your opinion, shipped with a functional, useful, and usable software interface to those hardware functions?

I am not too good of a sample as I only owned PlayStation and PlayStation 2 (and a CLIE') in terms of Sony Hardware with GUIs.

I like SonicStage 2.0 and PlayStation 2 GUI (even though I expect at least something as nice lookign as XBR for PlayStation 3 as the old interface is getting a bit... old).

Edit: sorry, forgot the CLIE' line, nice GUIs.

 

[DCharlie]

"The problm is not their coders in their coding ability. The issue with the interface is a GUI design issue both in terms of responsiviness and usability."

You never thought about a scenario in which the bosses told the PSX software group to move on with the new updates, took the updates and decided not to apply them in any way to the older model for marketing reasons (to make the new model even better in people's eyes)."

Then that paints sony as the Cunt's Cunt of companies.

"Stupid decision and I do not appreciate it either, but before saying that they simply have shitty programmers in general, I'd be a bit more careful."

Okay - then tell me this... if they do this with a $700+ dollar machine , can you see why people are going to be wary of buying anything from this company again?

"About Ken Kutaragi, maybe he likes it bcause he is not too picky or maybe because he got it for free ."

the quote attributed to him was that it was so easy to use and so elegant.... Maybe he's an S&M freak?

 

[MrSingh]

"$700 on a device that won't deliver what was promised a year ago. How horrible.."

But obviously, it's just me being anti sony.

You knew it was going to suck. I told you it was going to suck.

But you bought it anyway so that you could use this as a vehicle in your anti-Sony crusade!!!

 

[kaching]

No such thing as return policies in Japan. Companies get away with this kind of crap all the time.

So the single power that Japanese consumers wield is to buy or not buy and yet they willingly trade on that just to be first in line for a new product? No wonder all the coolest looking gadgets get released in Japan first - it's a nation of beta testers who regularly pay tens of thousands of yen for the privilege

(Stop me if you've heard this before

 

[Pedigree Chum]

Fuck that's messed, and I was pissed when my PS2 died. I feel sorry for people who bought the PSX when it came out.

 

[Sho Nuff]

Haha Pana you are silly, defending broken products that do not perform as advertised. Tee hee!!!

I will buy a Panasonic HDD recorder for my new pad.

 

[AndriaSang]

Maybe you can get rid of it by giving it as a freebie with your telescope?

I don't think I'll be getting rid of my telescope. Nice view from my apartment... tee-hee-hee.

 

[cybamerc]

Panajev sure loves his Sony.

 

[mrklaw]

Its all in the User Experience. Not just with PSX, but with all 'convergence' technologies :shudder:

Sony is great at Consumer Electronics. Traditionally that was all solid state, hard wired stuff, with buttons that do stuff.

Now its all User Interface this, and multimedia that. Thats an area that Sony (and many other CE companies) are not experienced in. And that will take them some time to get right.

 

[Brannon]

Everybody wants to be the first one with the first Sony console, so I say let them test it out for me with their money. Their first-run products get as much trust from me as I can throw them, and I don't throw consoles. They ARE however good for selling at a decent markup because they're "so rare" and not enough were made and the buyer will do anything to be The One with the new Sony console. In a few months when the bugs are worked out of the new batch and a bunch of games that aren't launch fodder are released, that's when I think about seriously buying them.

I can bear a few months' wait on actually playing mainly because Sony has proven with their console track record that being the first is probably a bad idea a good percentage of the time, but also because Sony {shock}WANTS TO MAKE MONEY{awe} so they are going to release more consoles in the very near future... that don't cause nucular meltdowns.

A $200-$300 first-run Sony handheld with moving parts? Eh, I think I'll live vicariously through others. Start spending your money for me....

 

[cybamerc]

mrklaw:

> Sony is great at Consumer Electronics. Traditionally that was all solid state, hard wired
> stuff, with buttons that do stuff.

I dunno. I have a Sony tv with firmware problems and my parents had a Sony cd player with firmware problems as well. I wouldn't dare say that other manufacturers are better in this regard though. Quality assurance is a lost art.

 

[Panajev2001a]

You knew it was going to suck. I told you it was going to suck.

But you bought it anyway so that you could use this as a vehicle in your anti-Sony crusade!!!

LOL.... Singh, he bought it because he is a gadget freak with a good budget .

I have to remember if he ever said things like he felt there was need to balance Sony fans over-excitement .

 

[Panajev2001a]

the quote attributed to him was that it was so easy to use and so elegant.... Maybe he's an S&M freak?

Well, he is a CMOS engineer... look at what happens to bi-CMOS engineers... I think they are weird .

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

 

[Panajev2001a]

Hahaha , good for a laugh, bad if it shows what you got out of this thread .

 

[pilonv1]

I think this one is more appropriate.

"IT.......WASNT.......SONY'S.........FAULT"

or

"Sony, the only thing dead here is your PSX"

 

[P90]

The Sony damage control here is near priceless. "Dysfunctional products are good if they say Sony on the front".

The pro-Sony spinners should step to the plate and reimburse DCharlie and AndriaSang for their abysmal pile of junk PSXs if they really want to defend Sony. There is no excuse for the PSX.

 

[Razoric]

Sony needs to cut Pana a paycheck... he sure is workin overtime.

1. Sony released PSX for $700.
2. It ends up being shit but they promise upgrades.
3. The fuck early adopters in the ass by both lying to them and releasing a shit product under both the Sony AND Playstation label.
4. Those customers are pissed and vow to question anything coming out of Sony from now on.

I don't see how you could spin this. I will even be questioning Sony in regards to the PSP after this fiasco.

 

[kaching]

By the same token, there's no excuse for people like DCharlie and AndriaSang running out to buy an expensive product like the PSX without sensible product research first, especially in a country like Japan that has little or no consumer purchase protection.

The implementation of the first PSX models is clearly documented and acknowledged as a misstep for Sony. But what's equally laughable as trying to defend it is trying to extrapolate it into a bigger trend.

 

[Panajev2001a]

P90 and Razoric, I know it is more fun just to insert the quick pun, but a little bit of reading will not hurt you.

I was not one of the people who said PSX is perfect, FUCK off or something similar.

I remember saying that Sony fucked up with PSX.

My problem with the argument DCharlie was making was not related to "is PSX a greatly made product or a not greatly made product ?".

Keep having a laugh, I don't care .

 

[jarrod]

Is Sony still planning to release the PSX in foreign markets or was that idea dropped?

Good question.

The implementation of the first PSX models is clearly documented and acknowledged as a misstep for Sony. But what's equally laughable as trying to defend it is trying to extrapolate it into a bigger trend.

I'm not sure that's what DCharlie and AndriaSang are really doing though. Or should we all side with Pana and ignore this PSX fiasco, attributing it to flunky divisions outside SCEI and absolving them of any technical responsibility?

Funny thing, I remember getting into a discussion with the Sony boys over a similar situation with PSP early on. Their arguments centered around PSP being a more cooperative SCEI effort than previous PlayStations, that it would inevitably involve direct input from Sony Electronics... then they pointed to PSX as evidence towards this line of thinking.

 

[MrSingh]

So the single power that Japanese consumers wield is to buy or not buy and yet they willingly trade on that just to be first in line for a new product? No wonder all the coolest looking gadgets get released in Japan first - it's a nation of beta testers who regularly pay tens of thousands of yen for the privilege

(Stop me if you've heard this before

sadly. it's true.

I always enjoy the sight of a foreigner trying to return something he didn't like.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Sony needs to cut Pana a paycheck... he sure is workin overtime.

1. Sony released PSX for $700.
2. It ends up being shit but they promise upgrades.
3. The fuck early adopters in the ass by both lying to them and releasing a shit product under both the Sony AND Playstation label.
4. Those customers are pissed and vow to question anything coming out of Sony from now on.

I don't see how you could spin this. I will even be questioning Sony in regards to the PSP after this fiasco.

I am not spinnign anything.

PSX is not worth $700. I am sure that if DCharlie got it for $299 or $249 he would be FAR less pissed at the missing functionality.

BTW, they did promis firmware upgrades and they delivered them: IIRC even DCharlie commented that most of the promised fixes came.

This does not change the issue: PSX was not worth the price they asked for it given that they gave you incomplete firmware which took months to update.

How is PSX to use ? I do not know, I do not own one.

You can question all Sony products because of the PSX, but I have my overall positive experience with PSOne and PlayStation 2 to give me some hope regarding PSP and PlayStation 3 both fully SCE products.

PSXis the first product coming from collaboration between SEL and SCE at a moment in which the power struggle between the two was not over (is it even over yet ? bah...).

PSX is not a PlayStation family product per-se, it is not a full SCE made/designed/delivered product... so sorry if I still believe that SCE's engineers and designers are not complete idiots.

PSX is and has been a SEL product and I am getting convinced that the reason they used the PlayStation 2 chipset was for cost reduction and probably write-off of new R&D expenses for SCE under the Electronics banner.

I am sorry users got screwed and I hope for them Sony will wise up and allow them to return the old PSX and get the new one for a small fee or for no fee.

 

[P90]

By the same token, there's no excuse for people like DCharlie and AndriaSang running out to buy an expensive product like the PSX without sensible product research first, especially in a country like Japan that has little or no consumer purchase protection.

The implementation of the first PSX models is clearly documented and acknowledged as a misstep for Sony. But what's equally laughable as trying to defend it is trying to extrapolate it into a bigger trend.

What ever happened to a company delivering a working unit? I jumped all over MS with the Xbox probs and cover up when they launched in Japan. What is wrong with jumping on Sony as well?

It isn't "laughable to extrapolate to other products" as others here have related how a number of other Sony products have been crap at launch. I can vouch for PS2, Sony telephone, and Sony walkman and CD walkman, Sony CD players, Sony VCrs having problems way before they should have. My Sony computer monitor, OTOH, has worked flawlessly for nearly 10 years. If that varied of an experience is "laughable" to extrapoplate to other Sony products, you are whacked. BTW, I avoid Sony products now or at least get a no questions asked warranty. I am slow to learn. I just eat up that Sony hype.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'm not sure that's what DCharlie and AndriaSang are really doing though. Or should we all side with Pana and ignore this PSX fiasco, attributing it to flunky divisions outside SCEI and absolving them of any technical responsibility?

Funny thing, I remember getting into a discussion with the Sony boys over a similar situation with PSP early on. Their arguments centered around PSP being a more cooperative SCEI effort than previous PlayStations, that it would inevitably involve direct input from Sony Electronics... then they pointed to PSX as evidence towards this line of thinking.

What did SCE do wrong ? They delivered the chipset working to the SEL guys and they even helped them to write the software initially (as SEL guys were not too familiar with the PlayStation 2 architecture).

I am not aware of who exactly inside Sony is working on PSX and who is calling the shots: if the addition of the Search feature was so trivial and was purely leveraging software techniques which could have worked on the old PSX I think this is the result of a shot called by the management (of the sub-division handling PSX).

A wrong call if the situation is as we describe it: if a software patch can be made on the older PSX for a feature which should have been there then they should release it and if such a patch cannot be made they should allow older PSX to be traded in and exchanged for new PSX's for a small fee.

 

[Razoric]

By the same token, there's no excuse for people like DCharlie and AndriaSang running out to buy an expensive product like the PSX without sensible product research first, especially in a country like Japan that has little or no consumer purchase protection.

I'm sure there will be market research from now on... if it has Sony on the box, stay the fuck away until they release a new version.

 

[Brannon]

if it has Sony on the box, stay the fuck away until they release a new version.

Learn it, live it, love it, hump it if you have to as long as the message gets through.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'm sure there will be market research from now on... if it has Sony on the box, stay the fuck away until they release a new version.

So basically you just announced you will never buy one of their products again.

You see each new SCPH revision is in itself a new product of some sort .

 

[kaching]

I'm not sure that's what DCharlie and AndriaSang are really doing though.

That part of my comment wasn't directed so much at DC or AS, more at people like P90 and Razoric.

Or should we all side with Pana and ignore this PSX fiasco, attributing it to flunky divisions outside SCEI and absolving them of any technical responsibility?

Don't ignore but don't blow it out of proportion either. That's all I said.

Funny thing, I remember getting into a discussion with the Sony boys over a similar situation with PSP early on. Their arguments centered around PSP being a more cooperative SCEI effort than previous PlayStations, that it would inevitably involve direct input from Sony Electronics... then they pointed to PSX as evidence towards this line of thinking.

I believe that discussion began with people like yourself agreeing that Sony divisions needed to collaborate more, the problem being whether there was evidence of them actually doing that - am I right? The PSX and PSP were then provided as examples of this and I believe there was dispute over just how much collaboration there was. It's pretty well documented at this point that the PSX and PSP are in fact examples of much more significant collaboration between SCE and other Sony divisions, but obviously that doesn't say much for how successful those efforts would/will ultimately be. First attempt - poor results, but that doesn't yet establish a trend by itself.

 

[jarrod]

That part of my comment wasn't directed so much at DC or AS, more at people like P90 and Razoric.

Ah, well then ignore.

Don't ignore but don't blow it out of proportion either. That's all I said.

I agree 100%.

I believe that discussion began with people like yourself agreeing that Sony divisions needed to collaborate more, the problem being whether there was evidence of them actually doing that - am I right? The PSX and PSP were then provided as examples of this and I believe there was dispute over just how much collaboration there was.

Yeah, that sounds famailar... as usual my memory likes to muddle the specifics. I blame freshman year.

It's pretty well documented at this point that the PSX and PSP are in fact examples of much more significant collaboration between SCE and other Sony divisions, but obviously that doesn't say much for how successful those efforts would/will ultimately be. First attempt - poor results, but that doesn't yet establish a trend by itself.

Sure, but it does set a concerning precedent... and really it's the only similar product we can judge future potential by so far. Keep in mind I'll still be picking up my PSP on launch day.... with a fat warranty.

 

[kaching]

What ever happened to a company delivering a working unit? I jumped all over MS with the Xbox probs and cover up when they launched in Japan. What is wrong with jumping on Sony as well?

Nothing and I never said there was anything wrong with it. But take them to task for the issue at hand, don't go imagining further bugbears down the road.

It isn't "laughable to extrapolate to other products" as others here have related how a number of other Sony products have been crap at launch. I can vouch for PS1, PS2, Sony telephone, and Sony walkman and CD walkman, Sony CD players, Sony VCrs having problems way before they should have.

The problems you're addressing are on two different levels. You're talking about incidental issues with a product that may or may not be linked to build quality vs a product that very clearly failed to achieve its promised specifications out of the box, subsequenly sold poorly, had its production halted and was ultimately subjected to a redesign before putting it out on the market again.

You and I are both people who have owned PS1s and PS2s from the sound of it but our experiences don't match - I have had no problems with either console, owned since launch. Nor have I had problems with my Sony digital camera or Sony TV. But, had we both purchased PSXs, we definitely would have had the same problems with how it failed to deliver on promises and that's a clear distinction between the PSX and the other Sony products you mentioned.

 

[Lazy8s]

A company is responsible for all of their actions and products regardless from which internal division they come. It's the company that determines the standards by which staff are employed, sets the management and operating structure, and chooses who gets which jobs to do. In return, they get to leverage their brand name to lend credibility to their products.

When consumers buy a Sony product, they don't get to pick which engineers or company team made it for them.

 

[cybamerc]

By the same token, there's no excuse for people like DCharlie and AndriaSang running out to buy an expensive product like the PSX without sensible product research first

That's just dumb. If you buy a product you expect it to work as intended. There's no excuse for screwing over consumers like that. And I don't care that other companies do it as well.

 

[kaching]

Researching a potential $700 dollar purchase that you won't be able to return once bought is dumb?

 

[Razoric]

Researching a potential $700 dollar purchase that you won't be able to return once bought is dumb?

Research what.... Sony was selling it as a PS2/DVR/end all beat all system and promised upgrades under the SONY and PLAYSTATION brand name. Even if you researched it, most would have bought it.