shinra-bansho
Member
Fire-sale on remaining PS2 inventory? PS2 is no longer included in FY13.
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Sony FY12: $400M Net Income; PS3/PS2 16.5M; Vita/PSP 5M forecast
- Thread starter Parmenides
- Start date
specialguy
Banned
we simply dont know statements like that are true.
you cant respond why in year 7 with known end user salesin major regions flat to down as one would expect, ps3 suddenly ships more than 50% more than they ever have before in this quarter by your numbers.
hell, according to op i believe sony set forth a 10m fy ps3 forecast. by your accounting they just shipped a third of that in the last 3 months. a 10m yearly forecast means they plan to ship an average of 2.5/m PS3 per quarter, and this includes the holidays (where according to them they shipped 6.5m PS2/PS3 last year). even with ps4 coming out, it just doesn't jive with them shipping 3m ps3's in jan-march per your math. unless they plan to just completely abandon ps3.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
I see.
My guess is just a bit above the maximum, anyhow. So while the gap may not be as big as estimated, it's still quite possible that PS3 has shipped more than 360.
PS2 sold 4.1 million FY12.
16.5 - 4.1 = 12.4. I'd put that at the very lowest PS3 sold, considering PS2 sales should have dropped off considerably this year from 4.1.
That's not really true. You're not using the last quarter we got PS2 numbers from, you're just using the quarter with the highest ratio of PS3
S2 sales from that year which happens to be the holiday period. The following quarter (ie 1 year ago) it was back down to 1.9 million PS3 to 0.6 PS2 or closer to a 70/30 split not 87/13. That full year is similar as well at 13.9:4.1 or again close to a 70/30 split.Yeah that damn phone is doing really well for them
Considering Samsung is one of the 2 big juggernauts in the cellphone industry, Sony is doing really well
specialguy
Banned
that's my only possible guess. i guess if the numbers normalize next Q, we can guess it might be the case.
i'm not even sure they discontinued ps2. another board implied it was only confirmed for japan.
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
I would like to see a new version of the infamous PS3 losses graph. I want to see if they've finally broke even on all those billions of PS1/2 profits they lost.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Sony without its bank:
Operating income - $871m
Net income before tax - $1.1bn
Net income/(loss) after tax - ($128m)
Operating income - $871m
Net income before tax - $1.1bn
Net income/(loss) after tax - ($128m)
MagicWithEarvin
Member
PS2 still selling? That's cheese!
I don't know but a move like that seems disingenuous to people who are investing in your company and would not instill confidence in me.
And as result of this lack of information we still have people trying to do foggy math to see who came in 2nd for this past generation.
shinra-bansho
Member
PS2 I imagine.
Had a quick look again, losses halved on home entertainment - seems like their on their way at least?
Large loss on mobile products - more of a one off?
specialguy
Banned
yeah it sucks. i dont even care who "wins", i'd just like clarity.
as of now we'll only get arguments.
specialguy
Banned
this doesn't make any sense...tax turned a 1.1b profit into 128m loss?
what is the overall gist of these results?
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Why doesn't Sony just drop the silly PS2/PS3 figures combo? I know, I know, they'll probably use it again with PS4, but it's really stupid regardless.
GeneralManager
Member
I think its hilarious. Is always that same guy predicting the same thing and getting it wrong.
Who cares. There's not a big enough difference for it to matter, its not 100m vs 20m ala PS2 and Xbox.
GAME:
Sales decreased 12.2% year-on-year (a 15% decrease on a constant currency basis) to 707.1 billion yen (7,522
million U.S. dollars). Sales to external customers decreased 22.5% year-on-year. This significant decrease was
primarily due to a decrease in unit sales of PlayStation®3 (“PS3” hardware and PSP® (PlayStation Portable)
(“PSP” hardware and software, as well as PlayStation®Vita (“PS Vita” hardware, partially offset by the favorable
impact of foreign exchange rates.
Operating income decreased 27.6 billion yen year-on-year to 1.7 billion yen (18 million U.S. dollars). This
significant decrease was primarily due to the above-mentioned decrease in sales of PSP hardware and software as
well as the impact of a strategic price reduction for the PS Vita, enacted in Japan in February 2013
Sales decreased 12.2% year-on-year (a 15% decrease on a constant currency basis) to 707.1 billion yen (7,522
million U.S. dollars). Sales to external customers decreased 22.5% year-on-year. This significant decrease was
primarily due to a decrease in unit sales of PlayStation®3 (“PS3”
hardware and PSP® (PlayStation Portable)(“PSP”
hardware and software, as well as PlayStation®Vita (“PS Vita” hardware, partially offset by the favorableimpact of foreign exchange rates.
Operating income decreased 27.6 billion yen year-on-year to 1.7 billion yen (18 million U.S. dollars). This
significant decrease was primarily due to the above-mentioned decrease in sales of PSP hardware and software as
well as the impact of a strategic price reduction for the PS Vita, enacted in Japan in February 2013
Im not much of a sales guy, but I do wonder if investors were concerned with it wouldent they call Sony out on it? Seems like if investors dont push Sony on the matter then they dont have any reason to change what they are doing.
If I were investing in the company I would absolutely push them. Also if Sony were to lie about their numbers wouldent that cause some major legal issues for them?
the fuck? how do taxes come to 1.3 billion dollars and how do i get in on that?
PshycoNinja
Member
And people were saying that the NDS took over the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. PS2 is still the best selling console of all time and still haven't been topped.
And did PS3 just overtake the 360?!?!
And did PS3 just overtake the 360?!?!
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Yes, but the latest quarter was not a good one, though I expect it comes from investment in retooling for 4K so it could well be a one off. The operating loss was reduced by around 50% in TVs which is what they aimed to do, my guess is that a lot of investment was booked in just prior to the FYE because before Q4 the TV division was on track to reduce losses by around 75%.
As for mobile, it is down to a drop in laptop sales and the product mix moving towards lower margin. Mobile device ASP increased and now sits at just under $300, which is pretty strong. The division is likely breaking even right now and will be profitable for the current year but I expect the Vaio division will eat all of that up and the division will post a loss as PC hardware continues to march towards lower margins. Sony need to get out of that particular market and ramp up Android tablets.
TheGreyHulk
Member
why no list of the 360 SW sales in that chart? it only shows sony and nintendo... they have 360 in the HW portion but it disappeared in the SW? i don't get it
the world may never know.
shinra-bansho
Member
Nope - they've always seen a dip. The forecast surprised me too. Either they expect incredibly favorable margins on the PS3, or they plan to price the PS4 for rapid profit; or perhaps they expect the cost of sales for the PS4 to decrease much more rapidly than for past hardware.
I still think anything above $450 prices them out of the market.
Microsoft do not report software shipments.
Aquamarine
Member
Microsoft's tiered XBL subscription / unlocked Durango strategy confirms a $450-500 maximum reach for PS4.
Please explain why it's "silly." It serves its intended purpose.
I think there'll be two SKUs either side of that number.
We could also entertain the possibility that Sony sees sharp profit margins on certain things they did not exploit with PS3... like maybe proprietary hard drives, or a more aggressive network services subscription regime. I guess we'll get a full idea of the business model after E3.
edit - although a hard drive is shipping in every box, so proprietary margin-packed hard drives would have limited impact in the short term.
i think anything above $399.99 does that. the 4 in front of any other number is mighty imposing. even the 3 is asking a lot.
with that in mind, i think they will make it a $499.99 system, especially if they're expecting microsoft to do the same. they can just get by the first few years on the ps3 making a profit while the ps4 slowly builds a loyal base. by the time it's $300, it should have a userbase of 15-20m, and beyond good & evil 2 will be lighting up the sales charts.
Arguing about who "wins" between PS3 and 360 is quite pathetic, the difference is small enough for it to be technically a draw, and I doubt it's gonna change since the generation is ending.
That and if the PS3 was truly, clearly ahead, Sony would just give us straight numbers and throw a PR instead of going for this +PS2 bullshit.
That and if the PS3 was truly, clearly ahead, Sony would just give us straight numbers and throw a PR instead of going for this +PS2 bullshit.
metalslimer
Member
I think if they don't have a 399 model they're screwed in America if MS has a subscription model availabe for 299.
Which is why they honestly can't let MS do the subscription model alone. Offer a 299 subscription model with monthly payments and access to PSN+ with free games and would look much better.
specialguy
Banned
Yup.
Only caveat being, Sony seems to be flat wrong a lot on their predictions. EG, they've predicted a return to profit year after year, and it rarely happens.
I'm starting to believe in 499 for both ps4/720.
It's a lot but:
-They still would probably sell out
-It's less than PS3 launch price with 7 years of inflation in between
-Two words: iPad. Nuff said.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
They have a huge tax liability from previous years in the electronics division, the company is not profitable enough to recognise certain DTAs so their tax rate is above 100%.
Without asset sales the electronics division probably made an operating loss of around $1.5bn, and it clearly shows in the results. The main electronics division posted a huge loss, the game division is barely profitable, Xperia+Vaio made a huge loss, cameras and camcorders are trending downwards.
The only reliably profitable divisions Sony have are its media ones and the bank. I expect this year Xperia will join the list of profitable divisions, but the losses in the Vaio division will wipe that out too.
was the $99 360 that successful? i don't know how many people are that comfortable with signing a plan for a video game console. of course, the only thing other than the $99 360 we have for comparison is the 3g vita.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Anyone thinking $349.99 Plain PS4
$399.99-$449.99 Deluxe Bundle (Retailer Exclusive kind of thing, add a launch game or two or throw in an extra controller/stupid stuff)
At least you can claim the PS4 starts @ $349.99
I think PS3 needs to go to $199.99 so does the Vita, also FOR FUCK SAKES drop the price of the cards already or create new GB version so older memory cards get flushed at cheaper price and higher memory takes over the price of those old cards
$399.99-$449.99 Deluxe Bundle (Retailer Exclusive kind of thing, add a launch game or two or throw in an extra controller/stupid stuff)
At least you can claim the PS4 starts @ $349.99
I think PS3 needs to go to $199.99 so does the Vita, also FOR FUCK SAKES drop the price of the cards already or create new GB version so older memory cards get flushed at cheaper price and higher memory takes over the price of those old cards
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Short term debt decreased by just about the same amount.
So much for this idea that Sony have lost access to regular capital markets because of the downgrade.
Edit: Can you please stop bolding your posts. It's irritating.
metalslimer
Member
If MS is really going forward with it, it definitely seems to have been. People pay subscriptions for couches, computers, and tvs. Don't see why a console would be vastly different especially since people buy XBL subscriptions anyway
No. 399 is the lowest you're going to see a base PS4 model without a subscription and even that could be dicey.
1st Course
Member
That handhelds forecast seems way too low. I mean really 5m only for both platforms? They honestly expect to sell only 3-4m Vita next year?
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Is there any purpose other than hiding the actual figures per platform that I'm not aware of? And if that's all, how is that not silly? Just like hiding behind "the PlayStation family" in their NPD responses before they stopped giving them altogether.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Seems realistic to me.
PdotMichael
Banned
Who cares about the total sales?
The momst important point of the report is that the Sony is selling significantly more PS3s than Microsoft is selling 360s right now. Talking about brand value, momentum and stuff.
The Vita is dead, it probably won´t even reach that much.
Yes you are right.
They are trying to fix the problems but I can't be optimist for their future, I wish I'm wrong.
i think putting the psp in there is just something to save some face. they can wipe the psp out from the forecast and lower the vita forecast if need be. i doubt they ship more than 500k psps this year, if that.
metalslimer
Member
Seems to high to me. They are going to be down YoY everywhere except Japan. Vita is selling 30k a month in the US. It's essentially dead. They'll end up having to revise that down by about million.
For this year, it's mostly "tricks" and they're still making moves for going reguarly back to black, so... I hope this moves and selling family jewels work out for them down the line