RukusProvider
Banned
Yes. The product is a failure. This is Sony confirming it.
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Sony FY12: $400M Net Income; PS3/PS2 16.5M; Vita/PSP 5M forecast
- Thread starter Parmenides
- Start date
Yes. The product is a failure. This is Sony confirming it.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
PS4 will be sold at a loss initially. That much is clear. Revenues to increase and profit to remain flat. With additional cost reductions for PS3 coming this year and a relatively weak PS3 shipment forecast it's quite clear that Sony intend to use the same model as PS2 to sell PS4. Small loss up front to meet a pricing target and wait 6-8 months for cost reductions to hit.
$399 looks like the target price.
$399 looks like the target price.
Aquamarine
Member
It's a concise measurement of Sony's core product ecosystems. To investors interested at growth rates / upcoming FY projections, it suits its intended purpose.
I'm not saying its ideal, but contextually, nuance is not needed here.
3-4m Vita unit sales implies a doubt by Sony that Vita will make significant gains or experience any kind of major turnaround. So we can project that Sony will not only prioritize PS4, but will slowly reorganize its Vita priorities into other areas (like as an additional controller for PS4).
electroplankton
Banned
My God, what a disaster Vita.
In one year they didn't even ship 5 million units.
Also, forecasts show how Sony doesn't really care about Vita at all, so this could clear once for all all the discussions in the sales thread.
In one year they didn't even ship 5 million units.
Also, forecasts show how Sony doesn't really care about Vita at all, so this could clear once for all all the discussions in the sales thread.
shinra-bansho
Member
They could also be entertaining the idea of additional revenue streams like paid online... although I hope they don't for my own sake.
Yes, I actually think you're right. $450 was generous. I think $399 will be the sweet spot.
I think either they have a $399 SKU or they replicate what Microsoft is doing and have a subsidized SKU.
Who is still under the strange idea that Sony still cares about Vita. At this point it's about minimizing the damage as they ungracefully exit dedicated handhelds.
Father_Brain
Banned
Yeah, I'm genuinely kinda surprised that they issued a semi-realistic forecast for the handhelds.They'll still probably end up missing it by .5-1M, but compared to this past FY, that's nothing.
Curious what they'll say about it in the Q&A, and shame jvm's sources were wrong about separate platform numbers, though.
natkingcoleslaw
Neo Member
Too bad they have to ruin everything by releasing the PS4
I'm sure we'll all be thrilled to have Media Create threads talking about 3DS all the time if Sony kills off the Vita.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Do you not remember the pre-Monster Hunter craze days when the DS first rose to heaven?
metalslimer
Member
Don't worry their is still the disastrous Wii U and the incoming PS4 flop/amazing success to talk about. Vita is pretty much irrelevant anyway.
vivftp
Member
Vita + Xperia. Make it happen Sony!
Glad to see the return to black. Hopefully this begins Sonys return to their past glory. It would be quite interesting if in a few years we viewed Sony as the premium tech brand they were once seen as - a level above the rest.
Edit.
By we, I mean the general public
Glad to see the return to black. Hopefully this begins Sonys return to their past glory. It would be quite interesting if in a few years we viewed Sony as the premium tech brand they were once seen as - a level above the rest.
Edit.
By we, I mean the general public
Brad Grenz
Member
Or they'd wait to announce it during their keynote at E3, which is where I actually expect it.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Fair enough, but what about investors of other kind, game developers and publishers? I'm sure they would appreciate knowing the split since they make their business decisions based on that.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Are you missing all the discussion on how their long term debt has increased as a result? Still need to be concerned a bit at least.
I try to forget.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Even with DS dominance, MC threads were still highly entertaining at the time.
Yup. As long as they have buildings to sell on a regular basis, they have nothing to worry about.
googleplex
Member
Yep, I fully expect the PS4 to have an upgradable proprietary hard drive.
PS3 having non proprietary hard drives, Blu tooth, and usb slots was awesome. But tons of people bought Xbox overpriced hard drives, charge and play kits, and wifi adapters. Unfortunately for consumers, Sony learned a lot from Microsoft this gen.
vivftp
Member
One step at a time I suppose? It at least looks like they are on their way to stopping the bleeding. Can't expect it to all be done in just a single year of Kaz's reign.
well, if a year from now the vita has a userbase of about 11 million people, that wouldn't be all that bad going into next gen. smaller companies could still support it if sony was still planning for it to be a thing. there might even be chances for ps4/vita crossover games for bigger titles.
if sony pulls out after next year, which really means forecasting less than they are this year, then the dedicated handheld market will only belong to nintendo again, after nearly a decade. but man, that would be one war-torn landscape. sure aren't things like mega man and sonic regularly headed its way.
if sony pulls out after next year, which really means forecasting less than they are this year, then the dedicated handheld market will only belong to nintendo again, after nearly a decade. but man, that would be one war-torn landscape. sure aren't things like mega man and sonic regularly headed its way.
You can't fix all in a year. For now Kaz is doing very well. Now they need to fix Tv and Vaio segment and push smartphone segment.
electroplankton
Banned
Even if those forecasts fully realized, Vita is not going to have 11 million owners at the end of this fiscal year. It's around 5 million now.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
And they reduced a bunch of short term debt. Sony's net indebtedness was almost flat. It increased by just $100m over the year. Which for a company the size of Sony is nothing.
Unknown Soldier
Member
It's not clear that Sony will ever be able to fix their TV business unless they reverse course and decide they will sell consumer OLED TVs after all. They may have to drop their TV business within a decade if 4K and 8K don't pan out.
The new VAIO Fit series are evidence that Sony is serious about a comeback there.
The Xperia line is already making a comeback in a big way, Sony Mobile has become a huge bright spot for the company just a few years after the end of the disastrous Sony-Ericsson partnership.
The PS4 is looking like the next-gen console to beat and PS3 is back in 2nd place worldwide, and Sony has already cut some other divisions it doesn't need.
Really it does seem like Kaz is turning the company around in a rather dramatic fashion, especially when you consider companies like Sharp and Panasonic which are just about ready for their funeral rites and nobody at those companies has a clue how to save them.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
And as mentioned earlier, a lot of that was due to selling a bunch of real estate. You can't expect that to be an annual thing.
Why would people stop talking about it? As long as it sells in any amount, it generates discussion.
Sorry chuck, you're stuck with it a while longer.
Napalm_Frank
Member
So is Sony doomed or saved?
womfalcs3
Banned
It is not out of the question that the PS3 may surpass 100 million units in a couple of years' time, making it a contender for top-seller in the past generation (with stagnating Wii sales, it is possible). It would hover at around 90 million units by next March based on Sony's expectation.
Their investment in the new Olympus venture is also recorded it seems (under investments and advances).
I might be reading this wrong here but there's a yoy increase of (payments) around $64 billion in investment expenses in non financial service investments, so I'm guessing the Olympus deal falls under that (Among other things I'm sure). Dunno how viable/profitable a field medical equipment will be going forward but hope it works out for them
I might be reading this wrong here but there's a yoy increase of (payments) around $64 billion in investment expenses in non financial service investments, so I'm guessing the Olympus deal falls under that (Among other things I'm sure). Dunno how viable/profitable a field medical equipment will be going forward but hope it works out for them
electroplankton
Banned
You really misinterpreted. I was meaning that I hope this will stop the wishful "waiting for". Sony is showing has no intention to relaunch the console in any way.
Canis lupus
Member
The most interesting are the PS3+PS2 shipments, 3.4M, really?
Unknown Soldier
Member
Right now they are looking pretty saved. The stock is up for the first time in years, Sony is selling products people actually want again, and they have been shedding unprofitable businesses and divisions to streamline operations. And the PS4 is looking like the strongest next-gen console so far unless MS has 16 GB of GDDR5 up their sleeves for Durango.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Not really, the real estate and asset sales paid for the investment in Olympus, the purchase of Sony Ericsson and the purchase of So-net. The YoY change in total indebtedness increased by just $100m on $13bn worth of debt, they just sold a bunch of long term debt to pay off short term debt. If monies from asset sales was used to pay off the debt then we would see a decrease in total indebtedness, especially since the company made a net post tax profit of $400m.
No doomed e no saved. It is in a good way anyway.
vivftp
Member
I would say they are on track towards saved.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Neither, but then it was never really doomed in the first place. People who thought Sony would go bankrupt were kidding themselves.
Completely forgot about So-Net
Sorry man but there is just no way to spin this anymore. It´s game over for the Vita.
shinra-bansho
Member
They are. Vita sales.
Yep, just found a good para summarizing things
"For all segments excluding the Financial Services segment, 49.8 billion yen (530 million U.S. dollars) was used, a decrease of 271.7 billion dollars, or 84.5% year-on-year. This decrease was primarily due to an increase in cash inflow from the sale of fixed assets year-on-year, the absence of cash outflow related to the acquisition of Sony Ericsson in the previous fiscal year, a year-on-year decrease in the amount of purchases of fixed assets, and cash inflow from the sale of the chemical products related business in the current fiscal year. The sale of Sony City Osaki and Sonys U.S. headquarters building were included in the sale of fixed assets in the current fiscal year.
Partially offsetting these factors were factors increasing cash outflow such as a year-on-year increase in payments for investments and advances during the current fiscal year, the acquisition of U.S.-based Gaikai Inc. recorded in other investing activities in the current fiscal year and a year-on-year decrease in proceeds from the sale of securities investments. An investment in Olympus Corporation in the current fiscal year is included in investments and advances. The sale of Sonys shares of S-LCD in the previous fiscal year and the sale of Sonys shares of DeNA in the current fiscal year are included in sales or return of investments and collections of advances."