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[reksveks]

Presentation: https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/22q2_sonypre.pdf
Source of Supplementary Info: https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/22q2_supplement.pdf

Sony inv (wondering whats going on here)

Main
- PS5 Units: 3.3m so no change (LTD: 25m)
(Last year was 3.3m)

- Hardware: 179,245m yen
(Last year was 160,635m yen)

- First-party software sales: 6.7m
(7.6m last year; lowest of the year)

- PS5 software sales
(Don't split by platform sadly)

- PS+ numbers / revenue ratio: 45.4m subs but 117,006m yen so roughly 859 yen per month per user
(Last year was 47.2m and 100,444m yen so ARPU roughly ~797 yen per month per user(???))

- OI margin: ~6% margin
(Last year was 12.8%)

- Shift in sales to customers across all division: still about 29% so no difference.
(US was 27% last year, Q1 was 30%)

- YoY growth was 75m yen and fx impact was +93.9m yen

Others
- Game sales info - no updates here
- Investment update
- Any indication of PSVR release date (suspect wont get anything)

Call is in a hour at https://live.irwebmeeting.com/sony/live/20221101/z6drxfm8/202303_2q_02_en/index.html

 

[reksveks]

Reserved

 

[remember_spinal]

25 million sell in

 

[AMSCD]

Jesus add-on content beat out of digital sales. There is no denying it. People love mtx

 

[remember_spinal]

Doesn’t seem like the ps plus overhaul really did anything for their numbers. It fell 2m actually…i don’t see sony continuing to highly invest in that service like they have been

 

[Robins]

Doesn’t seem like the ps plus overhaul really did anything for their numbers. It fell 2m actually…i don’t see sony continuing to highly invest in that service like they have been

I wouldn't necessarily expect numbers to grow, especially with the still small PS5 user base. But I would expect revenue per user to increase.

 

[vivftp]

Doesn’t seem like the ps plus overhaul really did anything for their numbers. It fell 2m actually…i don’t see sony continuing to highly invest in that service like they have been

It's down, but it's notable that it's down versus a PS+ that was artificially boosted due to the pandemic. The real question is how many of those baseline PS+ Essential subscribers were they able to convince to make the jump to PS+ Extra/Premium?

 

[ergem]

"+Decrease in losses from hardware"

It looks like PS5 is still sold at a loss. The increase in price only mitigated the loss.

 

[Robb]

Ps5 pushing forward. I was expecting the hardware numbers to be a bit higher since I’ve gotten the impression supply has improved compared to last year.

Also a bit surprised the sub count decreased.

 

[remember_spinal]

"+Decrease in losses from hardware"

It looks like PS5 is still sold at a loss. The increase in price only mitigated the loss.

They weren’t lying about inflation hitting them hard, its probably even worse for microsoft with no price increase and more expensive parts. They did claim they lose about 100-200 per console sold

This report like Microsofts isn’t very interesting. Hardware is improving from earlier in the year everything else is stagnant, 25 million sell in isn’t bad and its not great. It’s going to take them time still to catch up to the PS4.

I don’t see them making that 18m number in 6 months

 

[vivftp]

"+Decrease in losses from hardware"

It looks like PS5 is still sold at a loss. The increase in price only mitigated the loss.

The PS5 disc edition was sold at a profit 1 year ago.

Sony Group raised the price of their electronics earlier in the year, so PlayStation may have held on a few months longer which is why they were more relatively hard hit in this particular quarter. They didn't raise the price until this quarter was 2/3rd over, after all. For all we know the PS5 disc model could be profitable under the new pricing scheme.

 

[ergem]

Doesn’t seem like the ps plus overhaul really did anything for their numbers. It fell 2m actually…i don’t see sony continuing to highly invest in that service like they have been

I don't think PS+ number will still grow in any meaningful number. I would say Phil's statement that revenue would hover around 10%-15% going forward would also be applicable to PS+.

I wouldn't necessarily expect numbers to grow, especially with the still small PS5 user base. But I would expect revenue per user to increase.

Right. The growth that Sony can expect is the conversion of PS+ Essential to Extra or Premium. If they offer $1 conversion then we could expect that 40+ million PS+ subscribers would immediately jump. But since there is nothing like that, the conversion to Extra and Premium would be gradual and will also eventually reach the limit of those who would want an all-you-can-play sub service. 20 million sub for Extra/Premium is a big number but not impossible.

 

[ergem]

I don’t see them making that 18m number in 6 months

Is that their target? Still 18 million left until March 2023?

Why do you think it's unlikely? Do you think the demand is not there, or you think they can't make enough 18m units until March 2023?

If you ask me, I think they can make 18 million units in 6 months. The way they would do it is by shipping both PS5 models with 7nm and 6nm APUs. Keeping the old model and its production supply chain while creating a new production chain for the 6nm product.

 

[remember_spinal]

In the November forecast, Sony has incorporated approximately 61 bln yen in expenses associated with acquisitions completed within FY22, including Bungie, Inc. The actual amount of expenses is subject to change depending on factors such as completion timing and the accounting treatment to be finalized after the closing dates.

 

[reksveks]

Is that their target? Still 18 million left until March 2023?

Need to ship 12.3m til March.

Personally think its still possible but October imo hasn't been that great.

remember_spinal sorry, corrected myself. Too early in the UK.

 

[remember_spinal]

Is that their target? Still 18 million left until March 2023?

Why do you think it's unlikely? Do you think the demand is not there, or you think they can't make enough 18m units until March 2023?

If you ask me, I think they can make 18 million units in 6 months. The way they would do it is by shipping both 7nm and 6nm APUs. Keeping the old model and its production supply chain while creating a new production chain for the 6nm product.

I think they would have to sell about 10m by then to make it. I guess we’ll see how the holiday shipments pan out, they have the software and demand they just need the stock, we’ll see what they say on their earnings call

Need to ship 12.7m til March.

Correction*

 

[reksveks]

Good news for both, Sony and MS, COD and Fifa have been doing better than last year so hopefully that could drive engagement.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Ps5 pushing forward. I was expecting the hardware numbers to be a bit higher since I’ve gotten the impression supply has improved compared to last year.

Also a bit surprised the sub count decreased.

Supply has improved quite significantly for sure.

But it started improving in September - the last month of the quarter. Supply was an issue in the preceding two months. I believe that the impact of the higher supply will be seen in next quarter's reports.

 

[GhostOfTsu]

Seems like everything went up from the last quarter and according the slides on the purple it's:

• Biggest Q2 Revenue ever for PlayStation (and for any platform holder)

Doesn’t seem like the ps plus overhaul really did anything for their numbers. It fell 2m actually…i don’t see sony continuing to highly invest in that service like they have been

They made more revenue but they lost subs because of the end if the pandemic. This is proof that the market for a big buffet of hundreds of games is very limited. The casuals are not interested.

 

[remember_spinal]

Seems like everything went up from the last quarter and according the slides on the purple it's:

• Biggest Q2 Revenue ever for PlayStation (and for any platform holder)

They made more revenue but they lost subs because of the end if the pandemic. This is proof that the market for a big buffet of hundreds of games is very limited. The casuals are not interested.

Yeah, it seems like most people subscribed to ps plus are on it strictly for online multiplayer. I don’t think people care about the extended cheaper game catalogue even with 70 dollar full priced games on there. Like someone else said, it explains Microsofts latest comments on gamepass growth.

Good news for both, Sony and MS, COD and Fifa have been doing better than last year so hopefully that could drive engagement.

And this right here tells us why jim ryan flew his private airplane to personally chat with the CMA

 

[reksveks]

Call at: https://live.irwebmeeting.com/sony/live/20221101/z6drxfm8/202303_2q_02_en/index.html

Will see if there is any interesting tidbits.

 

[vivftp]

Call at: https://live.irwebmeeting.com/sony/live/20221101/z6drxfm8/202303_2q_02_en/index.html

Will see if there is any interesting tidbits.

I think I just heard that they still plan to meet, or possibly exceed the 18 million figure for this FY

 

[remember_spinal]

I only caught the end but nothign substantial

 

[remember_spinal]

i would love for someone at sony to do a round of PR interviews like Phils been doing

Feels like theres almost no insight into what playstation is doing or planning past GoWR

 

[TLZ]

Will be interesting to see what they do next quarter.

 

[reksveks]

I think I just heard that they still plan to meet, or possibly exceed the 18 million figure for this FY

Yeah, think I heard the same.

Some more info added to the first post.

 

[vivftp]

Yeah, think I heard the same.

Some more info added to the first post.

I believe I also saw that Sony had actually produced 6.5 million PS5's for this quarter. So the 3.3 million figure is just what they chose to ship. I'm guessing there's a metric buttload of God of War and Call of Duty bundles out there that they held back those extra 3.2 million units for.

 

[remember_spinal]

Also——

Taken from Modiz on era

Big claims in Sony’s financial call, despite PS5 shipments roughly matching the previous year so far, Sony says this is actually above their own expectations, as supply chain limitations lessened substantially, so now they expect to exceed their original 18 million shipment target.

They also said Spider-Man Remastered is the fastest selling PC game by Sony

I believe I also saw that Sony had actually produced 6.5 million PS5's for this quarter. So the 3.3 million figure is just what they chose to ship. I'm guessing there's a metric buttload of God of War and Call of Duty bundles out there that they held back those extra 3.2 million units for.

Yeah, there are 3 million ps5’s unaccounted for. Like you said, most likely bundles for the holiday

 

[thismeinteil]

So they were able to produce 6.5M units in Q2, with 3.3M shipped. So, we got at least 3.2M ready for the current quarter. If they can keep that production up, they should be able to keep up with demand.

 

[reksveks]

I believe I also saw that Sony had actually produced 6.5 million PS5's for this quarter. So the 3.3 million figure is just what they chose to ship. I'm guessing there's a metric buttload of God of War and Call of Duty bundles out there that they held back those extra 3.2 million units for.

Yeah, added that image into the main post. I also think there is just a bit of delay between production and shipment how big, I don't know.

 

[Godot25]

wrong thread

 

[vivftp]

So...anybody still thinks that Sony will sell 18 millions of PS5 in current fiscal year and 30 millions in next?

They're apparently going to revise the 18 million figure upwards, so yeah that's great to hear. The 30.5 million figure feels more real based on that news. Of course the 30.5 million figure was part of a larger rumor about a revision next year where Sony would produce 12 million of the current model PS5's in the first half of the next FY, and 18 million PS5's in the second half of the next FY.

If the current model is exceeding their expectations so much that they can revise their figures upwards, then who knows, they may even aim higher than the rumored 30.5 million figure next FY.

 

[jm89]

Exceed 18m wow. The next 2 months should be crazy for ps5 availability.

 

[vivftp]

Just think, if the Tom Henderson rumor is true then over the next 18 months we could potentially see more than 42.8 million PS5's shipped in that period of time.

 

[reksveks]

Call answers
- doesn't want to give unit numbers, but Q2 production hit 6.5m and will help year end sales.
- unit targets still 18m and 23m iirc (no updates)

Generally quite boring.

 

[DenchDeckard]

"+Decrease in losses from hardware"

It looks like PS5 is still sold at a loss. The increase in price only mitigated the loss.

This is what I've been strung over the coals here for saying. We had one statement like 3 months after launch that said they would start making a profit in June or July of 2021 and then manufacturing went to complete shit and costs went through the roof. I was roasted for suggesting they are making significant losses on hardware and it will easily be inline with Microsofts comments this week imo.

I bet they are losing between 100 and 200 dollars a box.

 

[ergem]

Call answers
- doesn't want to give unit numbers, but Q2 production hit 6.5m and will help year end sales.

I really don't think they can achieve this by just moving to the 6nm process. I think Sony are shipping both PS5 models with 7nm and 6nm to achieve such big numbers.

 

[BoxFresh123]

Deleted: Posted elsewhere

 

[DenchDeckard]

Looking forward to updates on software sales for ps5, especially first party games. Will give is a good sign on what the world is looking for through 2022. How are people digesting their content etc as it doesn't look like ps plus is providing the shot in the arm that we thought, maybe they need to revamp ps plus extra and premium to entice more people.

 

[vivftp]

This is what I've been strung over the coals here for saying. We had one statement like 3 months after launch that said they would start making a profit in June or July of 2021 and then manufacturing went to complete shit and costs went through the roof. I was roasted for suggesting they are making significant losses on hardware and it will easily be inline with Microsofts comments this week imo.

I bet they are losing between 100 and 200 dollars a box.

lol, what're you talking about. Sony explicitly stated in August 2021 that the PS5 disc model was no longer being sold at a loss:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/4/22609150/sony-playstation-5-ps5-loss-profit

That was 9 months after launch. At the time the digital version was still being sold at a loss. Fast forward to this year, and Sony Group raised the price across their electronics lineup earlier this year to account for global currency fluctuations. SIE apparently held on a few extra months before also deciding to raise their price. This quarterly report covers the period of July 1 to September 30th, and Sony didn't raise the price of the PS5 until August 25th, which was 2/3rd of the way through this quarter, meaning 2/3rd of the quarter was spent taking larger losses.

We have no way of knowing whether the PS5 after the price increase might still be profitable with the disc model. Unless they outright say it, we probably won't know until the next quarterly report. Where you're pulling 100 to 200 dollars a box from though, I have no idea.

 

[vivftp]

Looking forward to updates on software sales for ps5, especially first party games. Will give is a good sign on what the world is looking for through 2022. How are people digesting their content etc as it doesn't look like ps plus is providing the shot in the arm that we thought, maybe they need to revamp ps plus extra and premium to entice more people.

We're still coming off the pandemic high where subscription figures were artificially inflated due to folks staying at home. Anyways, it's not just about the total figures, it's about how many of those PS+ Essential folks they convince to make the move to PS+ Extra/Premium. Given that the revenue for subscriptions has gone up even though the total number has gone down, that would indicate that PS+ Extra/Premium are more than making up the difference this quarter.

 

[DenchDeckard]

lol, what're you talking about. Sony explicitly stated in August 2021 that the PS5 disc model was no longer being sold at a loss:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/4/22609150/sony-playstation-5-ps5-loss-profit

That was 9 months after launch. At the time the digital version was still being sold at a loss. Fast forward to this year, and Sony Group raised the price across their electronics lineup earlier this year to account for global currency fluctuations. SIE apparently held on a few extra months before also deciding to raise their price. This quarterly report covers the period of July 1 to September 30th, and Sony didn't raise the price of the PS5 until August 25th, which was 2/3rd of the way through this quarter, meaning 2/3rd of the quarter was spent taking larger losses.

We have no way of knowing whether the PS5 after the price increase might still be profitable with the disc model. Unless they outright say it, we probably won't know until the next quarterly report. Where you're pulling 100 to 200 dollars a box from though, I have no idea.

Am I reading it wrong I thought they said they are seeing a negative due to increase losses on hardware?

Maybe someone will ask the question today if they are making losses on hardware.

Myself and I'm sure every manufacturer on the planet would like to know how Sony have dodged costs of manufacturing practically doubling in the last 2 years. Do you have any idea how Sony has managed that?

 

[Little Chicken]

Reuters is saying the gaming division is down 50% YOY.

 

[reksveks]

Given that the revenue for subscriptions has gone up even though the total number has gone down, that would indicate that PS+ Extra/Premium are more than making up the difference this quarter.

Would like to figure out the fx impact on the network revenue to figure out how much the Arpu actually went up.

 

[reksveks]

Reuters is saying the gaming division is down 50% YOY.

Profits yes, that's true.

- USD strength is making selling hw in non-USD more of a loss leader
- software revenue has likely declined in real terms and its a good margin revenue stream.

 

[vivftp]

Am I reading it wrong I thought they said they are seeing a negative due to increase losses on hardware?

Maybe someone will ask the question today if they are making losses on hardware.

Myself and I'm sure every manufacturer on the planet would like to know how Sony have dodged costs of manufacturing practically doubling in the last 2 years. Do you have any idea how Sony has managed that?

My name ain't vivftp McSonyFace, friend. I don't know the inner workings of their business. I can only by the scraps of info available to us.

 

[ergem]

Profits yes, that's true.

- USD strength is making selling hw in non-USD more of a loss leader
- software revenue has likely declined in real terms and its a good margin revenue stream.

And also the chart shows that Sony factored the acquisition of Bungie in coming up with the operating income. I think that's the bigger factor in the small profit margin. The revenue actually increased by 12%.

 

[reksveks]

And also the chart shows that Sony factored the acquisition of Bungie in coming up with the operating income. I think that's the bigger factor in the small profit margin. The revenue actually increased by 12%.

Revenue in yen increased but obviously costs are in local currencies.

 

[remember_spinal]

i actually feel like spider-man outselling god of war on pc is pretty big news but no ones really reporting it.

A lot of people are judging sales on concurrent/peak player count, its not accurate.

 

[BoxFresh123]

vgchartz only has them at 24.55M PS5s. I don't know who to believe anymore.