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[reksveks]

But people do it and it's evident because mtx money is what's taking off on it

The biggest games in terms of MTX/GaaS aren't locked behind a paywall or subscription. MS released Halo Infinite MP outside of Gamepass.

The idea is to get people in the door with good games be that SP/GAAS MP/Whatever they want and then monetize them via MTX/DLC.

Sony is doing the same thing and has been for a while.

 

[Three]

Your post is in bad faith as most of Microsoft games aren't live service and ironically Sony is likely to ship more live service games than Microsoft during the same period.

This is just pure bullshit now. Look up the definition of live service.

Well how many did he list because i have had PC Gamepass since May 2020, and although i havent been counting, i must of played 60-70 games in that time, if not more, and they were almost all single player campaigns.

There wasn't a stream of 60-70 high budget single player games on all platforms combined let alone on gamepass. I don't think you're following the conversation.

 

[Cockles & Whelks]

Horizon Zero Royale could work. Land, tame your beast and ride into battle.

Fortnite has already laid the ground work.

 

[GymWolf]

The drama!

Man some people here are being over dramatic. Kinda pathetic really. The gaming industry is big enough to accommodate all types of games.

I mean, has everyone suddenly forgotten how successful GoW has been on Steam.

In what universe is gow releasing on pc the same thing as releasing a live service game?? (Or 10)

 

[Stuart360]

This is just pure bullshit now. Look up the definition of live service.

There wasn't a stream of 60-70 high budget single player games on all platforms combined let alone on gamepass. I don't think you're following the conversation.

Oh you were talking just 'high budget' AAA games, so AA and Indie single player games dont count for some reason?.
Well even saying that, plenty of the games i have played have been AAA. I mean you literally just said yourself that there havent been 60-70 'high budget' AAA even released accross all platforms, so why would Gmepass be full of them anyway?

 

[levyjl1988]

I thoroughly enjoyed Destiny 1 to completion. Destiny 2 was an indigestible mess. With all the updates, Fomo, time limited events, it got all too much, as a completion, it wasn't healthy. I gave up. These companies got too fucking greedy that I stopped and couldn't get back. Especially with the update they did to Destiny 2 not being able to redo and catch up to old missions. I said fuck that and I'm out,

I'm more invested in games like Dark Souls. Single player games with multiplayer components. It feels like a wholesome product and when the servers go dark it is still enjoyable and nothing is truly lost forever, as what it should be. Looking forward to Elden Ring.

A lot of live services will be providing many concepts of social media like jealousy. Look what I have that you can never earn. In a lot of live games there are people showing off cosmetics that you can purchase, it's worse when they show off time limited cosmetics that you cannot purchase or earn, and then I'm like okay, if I cannot get that, eith per through effort or money I guess I shouldn't play at all. And that's when I quit a lot of games like Destiny 2, GTA V online, Overwatch, etc. too many games did this crap that I never came back. Social media and a lot of haas have this fomo. I missed out, well no point playing then. I have my own damn schedule and just can't be on theirs. This is like FarmVille type of scheduled check in shit they employ in games now. It isn't genuine fun, it is work.

 

[Three]

The biggest games in terms of MTX/GaaS aren't locked behind a paywall or subscription.

The idea is to get people in the door with good games be that SP/GAAS MP/Whatever they want and then monetize them via MTX/DLC.

Sony is doing the same thing and has been for a while.

Of course when you're monetising a GaaS and need a bigger install base than 25M you offer it to those who aren't paying a sub too. When you "get people through the door and monitise them with MTX" on GP though what do you think that is? The answer is GaaS.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Of course when you're monetising a GaaS and need a bigger install base than 25M you offer it to those who aren't paying a sub too. When you "get people through the door and monitise them with MTX" on GP though what do you think that is? The answer is GaaS.

 

[Edder1]

Sony living long enough to see itself become the villain lol.

 

[kingfey]

I hope we get eso/outriders like game from Sony.

 

[reksveks]

Of course when you're monetising a GaaS and need a bigger install base than 25M you offer it to those who aren't paying a sub too. When you "get people through the door and monitise them with MTX" on GP though what do you think that is? The answer is GaaS.

But it doesn't mean that every game in subscription service is trending towards a mtx/live service model. The ecosystem might be but I suspect that we are getting to a plateau anyways.

That's my point.

The platforms have been trending for the last 3/4 years since the rise of fortnite and FUT before subscription services.

Sony makes GOW, TLoU etc in the hopes to get you to buy dlc/mtx in other games.

 

[Three]

Tell me what single player game was successfully montised with MTXs? Nobody wants to show off their new digital hat they paid $5 for to themselves.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Tell me what single player game was successfully montised with MTXs? Nobody wants to show off their new digital hat they paid $5 for to themselves.

Your core argument is that subscription services like Gamepass promote MTX and GaaS. The matter of fact is that both MTX and GaaS exist without Gamepass. They're not related at all.

 

[Mabdia]

Well... I just hope that all of those fail hard. Not a big fan of online games.

 

[Schmick]

In what universe is gow releasing on pc the same thing as releasing a live service game?? (Or 10)

I think you missed the point. there's obviously still a huge demand for single campaign driven games. That won't be ignored. There's plenty of people here stating that SP games will die as a result of the drive for live services.

My point is.... there's room for both. And there's money to be made from both.

 

[Three]

Your core argument is that subscription services like Gamepass promote MTX and GaaS. The matter of fact is that both MTX and GaaS exist without Gamepass. They're not related at all.

Only if you want to act obtuse and not see the argument. Like saying crime exists without poverty therefore poverty doesn't promote crime. (Before you get into a political debate, yes there is a link between poverty and crime). One existing without the other doesn't mean something can't promote it.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

One existing without the other doesn't mean something can't promote it.

I never said it can't promote it. I said it doesn't. It's kinda on you to prove that it does, you're making the argument after all.

 

[GymWolf]

I think you missed the point. there's obviously still a huge demand for single campaign driven games. That won't be ignored. There's plenty of people here stating that SP games will die as a result of the drive for live services.

My point is.... there's room for both. And there's money to be made from both.

I think people is just worried that sony is gonna shift his focus on multyplayer projects when we all love the company for the opposite reason and they don''t have like 50 different studios with 1000 devs each...some of these projects are gonna steal money\devs\time to single player projects, directly or indirectly.

10 projects in less than 4 years is a BIG commitment.

 

[Stuart360]

Only if you want to act obtuse and not see the argument. Like saying crime exists without poverty therefore poverty doesn't promote crime. (Before you get into a political debate, yes there is a link between poverty and crime). One existing without the other doesn't mean something can't promote it.

Well i mean MTX existed long before Gamepass. In fact MTX started with mobile gaming years ago as MTX is how they monitized mobile games with the majority of mobile games being F2P.
Console and PC devs then started bringing MTX into traditional games, and that was one of the main reason why so many people were/are against MTX because devs started introducing them into full priced retail games, when the whole point of MTX was for F2P games.
What any of that has to do with Gamepass, i'm not sure. If you're argument is that a sub service is a good place for MTX riddled games, then yes you're 100% right, but with or without Gamepass and Spartacus, MTX would still be here, and was here years before.

 

[The_Mike]

I feel like the market is already saturated with GaaS but seems like we haven't seen anything yet.

It's only the battle royale genre that's oversaturated

 

[TheKratos]

Well this sucks

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

It's only the battle royale genre that's oversaturated

Yeah there's a shit ton of pvp GaaS

Not many PVE ones like Anthem or Destiny. Outriders could have finally been a good one but they never planned ahead

 

[oldergamer]

This makes very little sense imo. They used to have Soe sony online entertainment with a bunch of gaas games and everquest one of the longest running mmo games. They got rid of them ( if i recall was in the same business complex ) only to try and rebuild what they had?

Im both baffled and curious on the 10 games they are thinking. I dont think the titles people are listing here are all of them. I feel like that list only cover possibly 3.

People shouldn't think multiplayer = gaas. Most of the titles listed are just going to be regular multiplayer games.

 

[Zok310]

I'm up for new shit, more games on the table the better.
Go for it Jim.
Lots of losers out there that want to wake up every day and do the same exact shit they did yesterday all over again.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

This makes very little sense imo. They used to have Soe sony online entertainment with a bunch of gaas games and everquest one of the longest running mmo games. They got rid of them ( if i recall was in the same business complex ) only to try and rebuild what they had?

Im both baffled and curious on the 10 games they are thinking. I dont think the titles people are listing here are all of them. I feel like that list only cover possibly 3.

People shouldn't think multiplayer = gaas. Most of the titles listed are just going to be regular multiplayer games.

It makes plenty sense. It's Jimbo and co fixing the previous leaderships mistakes just like how Phil and co were fixing theirs

 

[The_Mike]

Yeah there's a shit ton of pvp GaaS

Not many PVE ones like Anthem or Destiny. Outriders could have finally been a good one but they never planned ahead

Funny you mention that, I am playing through outriders now and having a ton of fun.
Warframe is MTX wise and combat wise the best of them all imo. Once you get into it then everything is a turd.

But the pvp genre isn't over saturated. There's not many non battle royale games out there, so as someone who likes pvp, and doesn't enjoy Battle royale, well there's only one game, and that's call of duty.

 

[just_like_that]

if they dont follow trendy shit like ubisoft is doing and also make loot boxes something like overwatch then i'll be ok with that. destiny mtx model is disgusting, you literally have to pay to look good and the free stuff you get looks so whack compared to paid outfits. would like to earn these items by playtime not make it 100% exclusive to real money

 

[PeteBull]

It makes plenty sense. It's Jimbo and co fixing the previous leaderships mistakes just like how Phil and co were fixing theirs

Previous leadership mistakes werent to push shit-gaas games out, its mistakes were to not buy even more studios and to not make even more singleplayer games. If Jimbo and co change course it means they gonna lose tons of players/tons of money from singleplayer enthusiast just like xbox, xbox wouldnt be spending first 7b on bethesda(yes zenimax but its bethesda really), then another 68,5b on activision-blizzard if they were doing fine w/o those accusitions.
With price of those big studios or rather publishers u can finally convince ppl how much good exclusives are worth, they are essential, they make or break ur platform, proof of that is switch with its shitty specs(1/3rd of xbox one), really bad online, barely making any discounts on games, yet still selling so much coz of quality games avaiable on it, exclusive games.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Funny you mention that, I am playing through outriders now and having a ton of fun.
Warframe is MTX wise and combat wise the best of them all imo. Once you get into it then everything is a turd.

But the pvp genre isn't over saturated. There's not many non battle royale games out there, so as someone who likes pvp, and doesn't enjoy Battle royale, well there's only one game, and that's call of duty.

Outriders was great. Had a ton of fun with it. Just a shame they were too scared to commit to it being a GaaS sooner just becuase of it's bad rep.

Used a play Warframe a ton back when it was just the smal tile based maps. Don't understand the direction that game is going with all the crap they keep adding to it.

 

[Zok310]

Games and Network for Sony generated $25 billion for 2021!
Should put them at number 1 pub in terms of revenue for 2021.

 

[Hendrick's]

So Sony is now doing everything that GAF hates like Multiplatform release & GAAS & Game Pass competitor

Yeah, but they are doing it organically.

 

[SSfox]

I would actually love a ghost of Tsushima multiplayer game in the type of GTA online or red dead online.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Previous leadership mistakes werent to push shit-gaas games out, its mistakes were to not buy even more studios and to not make even more singleplayer games. If Jimbo and co change course it means they gonna lose tons of players/tons of money from singleplayer enthusiast just like xbox, xbox wouldnt be spending first 7b on bethesda(yes zenimax but its bethesda really), then another 68,5b on activision-blizzard if they were doing fine w/o those accusitions.
With price of those big studios or rather publishers u can finally convince ppl how much good exclusives are worth, they are essential, they make or break ur platform, proof of that is switch with its shitty specs(1/3rd of xbox one), really bad online, barely making any discounts on games, yet still selling so much coz of quality games avaiable on it, exclusive games.

No it was their mistake. Not strengthening their multiplayer portfolio was the dumbest thing Andrew and Co did. Their lack of foresight is now biting PS in the ass. Pursuing multiplayer games doesn't need to be at the detriment of their single player games.

Nintendo does both. Microsoft is now doing both. Sony can do both

 

[Three]

I never said it can't promote it. I said it doesn't. It's kinda on you to prove that it does, you're making the argument after all.

So address the argument then. You're the one posting Denzel gifs.

I've already made my argument as to why it does and there is already empirical evidence. 1000s of hours spent grinding in a GaaS game and monetisation via mtx or 20hrs completing a big budget single player game. Which do you think will keep the player subscribed for months. Which one has mtx monetisation which is where GP is seeing its current spending.

 

[SSfox]

That being said I hope Sony won't abuse into their pricing, took quick look into halo online and the pricing was quite scary..

 

[TheDreadLord]

We believe in generations - launch games on PC
Studio organic growth - buys a number of studios
We will focus on single player cinematic experiences - 10 GaaS planned

Sony just keeps lying to your faces.

 

[lh032]

I mean...they have to do it isnt it?

Microsoft is going to get big bucks every year on the existing IP from Activision like Candy Crush, COD......

Sony have to find a way for profits as well, especially when your competitor has over 2 trillion capital...

 

[ZywyPL]

Sony may get the taste and lose interest in single player games. Single player games are too hard/time consuming to make compared to a mega hit multiplayer game.

Why not both? A game can have both MP mode and SP campaign, and even co-op in one package. While it's true that not every MP-oriented game is suited for SP at all, like BR for example, but the money made on those big, successful MP-only games can help fund AAA SP-only titles. That's what many have been saying all along, especially regarding PC ports - more money=more budget for games. Sony has been constantly saying that their AAA SP games are unsustainable, and this is the solution - moe playforms, more services. So if anything, the end result might be the opposite and Sony will be making more SP games than ever before.

 

[reksveks]

I've already made my argument as to why it does and there is already empirical evidence.

1000s of hours spent grinding in a GaaS game and monetisation via mtx or 20hrs completing a big budget single player game. Which do you think will keep the player subscribed for months.

where is this empirical evidence? i assume you would need a survey to figure out why users join and are retained?

 

[Wandering Leopard]

They have to do this if they want to stay relevant. These types of games will dominate the industry.

 

[Shmunter]

That's good that it's 10 considering 9/10 gaas fail.

Will be a fought lesson for Jimmy boy.

 

[Mr Hyde]

I hate this direction Sony is going in. Fuck live service games and fuck GAAS.

 

[THEAP99]

People claimed PlayStation doesn't have any variety, well here you go

 

[Warnen]

Remember when people said Sony wouldn't have to change? I remember….

 

[SSfox]

That's good that it's 10 considering 9/10 gaas fail.

Will be a fought lesson for Jimmy boy.

Most games can survive if it's different type of games, but yeah if most of this are all gonna be just panpan boumboum battle Royale then I can barely see success in those.

 

[PeteBull]

No it was their mistake. Not strengthening their multiplayer portfolio was the dumbest thing Andrew and Co did. Their lack of foresight is now biting PS in the ass. Pursuing multiplayer games doesn't need to be at the detriment of their single player games.

Nintendo does both. Microsoft is now doing both. Sony can do both

Ask those fortnite players what other games they play, probably very little, or none, no point going after those players with 10 different gas games, u got now 17m ps5 sold, lets assume sony gets lucky and gets 1 out of the 10 gaas they making succesfull, that means cash/time which could be spent on multiple single player games by its playerbase will be spent on that 1 gaas game, total waste, same of dev team/pubs money.

Players time and cash arent infinite resources, some1 who plays 5h of fortnite every day wont be buying 70$ AAA game every month, or even every 3 months, i know my casual friends that play csgo, fortnite, warzone and apex, its not even 4 of those at the same time, its 1 each for each person, no other games, coz they dont have any time to play other games, no need to spend cash on buying them.
The tactic jimbo has taken is 100% wrong aproach, it wil lead to much lower game sales, just like on xbox, and sony isnt microsoft where their games/xbox division can ride on the succes of whole company, if playstation division fails there wont be anything to fall back on.

And yup im positive those bethesda+activision/blizz money MS spent is more than any profit(net profit, not revenue) their games/xbox division made whole time it excisted- thats how bad it was/is.

 

[Three]

where is this empirical evidence? i assume you would need a survey to figure out why users join and are retained?

The lack of big budget single player games on gamepass so far. People already subscribing to play the first party GaaS games that MS predominantly currently offers. Mtx being the main revenue driver from gamepass. GaaS games like MLB showing up on it. EA moving to majority microtransaction games before everyone else and having EA Access (before gamepass existed) and now being part of gamepass. It's clear GaaS are trying to thrive on it and AAA single player games are simply not. If you asked me what AAA single player only game released for gamepass so far I would honestly struggle to name you one. That's empirical evidence.

People saying well you can have hybrid single and multiplayer. EA dropped single-player campaign from Battlefield, GTA5 has lived 3 generations without having to release any new single player content, GTA online has been on gamepass and PS now several times and promoted by both. GaaS is taking over and subscriptions are just monetisation on top of your engagement.

 

[Vaelka]

'' Live service '' is such a dumb term.

Don't you see guys, there just doing you a service :O!

 

[cromofo]

So that's how they break the day 1 PC ice

 

[Edder1]

Just browsing through these comments makes me laugh, all the guys who used to crap on live service games are now either capping for them or liking comments that speak well of them. This forum only has a few people that are real, the rest are just flip flopping fanboys.