REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Nobody is going "the casual gaming route". They're all doing their best to capture everyone, including Sony.
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Sony Reports Q3 FY12 Results - $2 Billion Loss, 6.5 M PS3's Shipped [Shares up 13%]
- Thread starter Parmenides
- Start date
Nobody is going "the casual gaming route". They're all doing their best to capture everyone, including Sony.
phosphor112
Banned
I really like where this is going. Especially the innovative push they want to make in the medical field. I'm in a dark room right now sitting in front of a computer with Fuji Films program Synapse. A lot of the scanners we use are Fuji as well. It would be nice seeing some competition. Just yesterday we were talking about the "great future" (/sarcasm) that Synapse holds.
NemesisPrime
Banned
As it's been mentioned, most of the Wii-U's line up is core titles. Unless I'm mistaken, rumors about MS range from 6x-8x power and possibly a kinect in every box. IIRC the only thing we have read about Sony is they are looking at SoC, just like MS.
So I'm not really sure where you're pulling these assumptions from.
And I've read rumors that people expecting a powerful PS4 will be disappointed. How do you pick and choose which rumors to believe when more than one is plausible?
Judging by this gen, it doesn't mean anything.
bigtroyjon
Member
Financial services cash can't really be used for the rest of the company.
They have about $8 billion in cash along with $8 billion in long term debt. They don't have the resources to lose billions on a new console without putting the company at risk if it fails.
Assumptions? From interviews and rumors.
But they ARE rumors at the moment. We both know that.
Xbox 6x and 8x? Yep, and we heard some stuff/rumors about "PS4 stronger than Xbox3".
Kinect 2 included means weaker hardware, to balance the price.
(and if Sony won't include their Eye/Move stuff)
? It means that the system is LESS powerful.
(judging by this gen & logic)
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
The "most powerful' hardware never wins the generations. Only GAFers care about such things. As things are now Sony will be releasing last. They will already be behind. It stands to reason the third party software will be built for nexbox,wiiu with ports going to ps4. Why build vastly different hardare, when only 1st parties will take advantage of it.
NemesisPrime
Banned
Indeed... after the PS1 and PS2 Sony thought that they could not fail. Now they have realised that they can and they can't afford to fail so expect a very "practical" console from them. NO mega risk taking. They are up against MS and Nintendo... none of those are push-overs (as Sony have learned) and MS and Nintendo can't easily be outcompeted financially at the moment. Both of them have a lot more money than Sony.
Lol yeah... in OPM. Do we need a crazy chart or what?
Just let it go.. the hole gets deeper every post.
Psychotext
Member
There was up until fairly recently. It's only in the last year or so that Sony moved the gaming division into the consumer products division.
And gamers! Because a lot of them give a damn about "sales numbers" and stuff.
They want good games and better looking games.
Powerful hardware "helps".
Not really! Only if you go the "olololol you're a fanboy! Lol yeah.." route.
Have I hurt your Kirby feelings (with my "guesses" / "assumptions " for the next-gen hardware)?
Black Lawn Finale
Banned
How can you come to that kind of conclusion when we know literally next to nothing about the PS4 let alone the architecture and capabilities of it? Always behind? Jesus, I know Sony is in a bad way but this kind of hyperbole is getting ridiculous.
I think it's obvious they won't be doing that, as I said. They've said explicitly they won't be repeating what happened with PS3 wrt massive investments. The poster I was replying to was wondering how they could afford to release a PS4 fullstop, not merely whether they could afford another PS3 style risk (which I noted they couldn't afford to repeat).
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
Behind I ment in terms of sells which is not a leap since they are releasing last.
phosphor112
Banned
I'm sure they are, considering they made the Cell specifically to do that. Though, I'll leave it at that because we already have a thread dedicated to that talk. =]
iamshadowlark
Banned
woowii Sony. I hope Kaz means that they will cut some of the more useless product lines they have. No reason for them to try and stick their hand into every market when the yen is boning them like this, stick to your strong suits.
As for implications on the PS4, this really won't have an effect so late in the game, whatever sony has planned has already been set in motion.
As for implications on the PS4, this really won't have an effect so late in the game, whatever sony has planned has already been set in motion.
Black Lawn Finale
Banned
That would be ok if the Xbox 360 was the generation leader for releasing first but the Nintendo Wii released a year after it and look what happened there. Releasing the next console in a timely matter is important, but thinking that just because something got released later automatically equals being behind in sales is ridiculous. This gen proved that.
While they are usually out of my price range, I've always like Sony TVs, so I hope this turns out well for them.
lol ok
MS only gives us numbers regarding tie ratio if i am not mistaken, and US is their best market by a mile, so it seems PS3 sells better, software wise, than 360, which is a bit contradictory to most people seem to think.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
All things being equal, the gaming side of Sony seems to be in reasonably good shape. You'd expect some losses with them launching new hardware, and the decline of PSP and PS2, but these things are inevitable.
The reality is though that the state of the Yen and the natural disasters have severely impacted Sony's manufacturing side; it doesn't matter how many units you shift when procurement/balance-of-payments calculations get knocked way off base.
The reality is though that the state of the Yen and the natural disasters have severely impacted Sony's manufacturing side; it doesn't matter how many units you shift when procurement/balance-of-payments calculations get knocked way off base.
They won't, they will never learn from their mistakes.
AranhaHunter
Banned
Code:
SNE 17.01 -1.18 (-6.49%) 17.07BSELL. SELL. SELL.
You gotta buy anti-cyclic... ;-)
Compared to the R&D they put on the hardware of the PS3, the PS4 it's just a 20% of the effort if they just do revisions, upgrades of their current tech and it will lower the cost of production.
Too many holes. That ratio for X360 is NPD which doesn't include bundles and the likes.
There is bound to be a lot of PS3 SW on shelves as well.
Sucks MS don't provide updates, surprised investors arnt asking to see them ...
There is bound that there's a lot of software on shelves for all consoles, so i doubt 360 has a overall (WW) ratio equal to the one seen on NPD, so only way to calculate is software shipments for both systems.
They are probably so close to each other that it doesn't make a difference to be taken into account, but for ages it has been said that 360 was the only one selling lots of software, well above competition, and it seems that both systems do really well there.
CrytothePrinceofPeace
Banned
In my view, if Sony made PS4 as a simple hardware upgrade it will fail miserably. The average Joe gamer can care less about 60 fps at 1080p. They need something else as a 'catch'. I would say Sony would be better off copying Nintendo's U pad idea than to go with another generation with the same old dualshock.
Castef
Banned
This.
Also because all of them can read software charts: non-casual games are still gathering lots and lots and lots of money.
So, they are NOT going fo the "casual gaming route". They are ALSO aiming for casual games. Which is a different thing.
EDIT: a casual gamer can be satisfied in paying 79 cents for the next iteration of Angry Birds and spend one week playing it. An hardcore gamer pre-orders a 50$ game, plays it a lot and the buys 1/2/3 DLCs, bringing even more money.
For a big company which of the two purchasers is still the most valuable one?
Why not? 360 has strong SW sales in the US yes, but it has strong HW to go with it. I don't see why SW can't be on par with HW sales in other countries, they don't need to be as strong as the US, just on par with the HW sold in that country ...
Not debating that both systems do well SW, just that we have no way of telling who is on top.
Interesting. He sort of pointed out most of the problems indirectly：
1. Top management fuzzing around TV business, surrounded by bunch of 'yes men'.
2. TV business getting commoditized rapidly but Sony has nothing to bring the extra oomph. Their high cost prevent them to play in commoditized market unless they partner with outsiders. Since they missed the large LCD/LED panel manufacturing and IP game, they can't fight cheap manufacturers like Samsung can. Crystal LED may be a good choice but they will need to make real products. Their OLED R&D hasn't turned into any real big screen products yet after all these years.
3. User experience is key to product development. Sony's fragmented approach doesn't work. Besides internal innovation, they should also get external help to spread their R&D coverage and speed up development, like Apple tapping on Nuance to deploy Siri even though they got rid of their own voice tech 20+ years ago.
4. They were/are not playing in key growth areas. Acquiring Sony Ericcson would help. Medical sounds interesting. But more critical is learning/structuring/developing how to use their combined core competencies in these areas. Tying their R&D to business groups closer would help improve their solutions too. They still have too many products. Instead of cutting them randomly, using these growth market as focal point helps to prioritize and cut fat.
All in all, the issues are known but it really depends on execution.
IrishNinja
Member
oh, Hyuga. still pushin' for that tag, i see.
seriously though: don't put much stock in any of the rumors we're hearing right now, and set your expectations low on the PS4's specs. if anything, you'll be pleasantly surprised if it works out!
seriously though: don't put much stock in any of the rumors we're hearing right now, and set your expectations low on the PS4's specs. if anything, you'll be pleasantly surprised if it works out!
why not? US is their strongest market by far, so rest of the markets will probably be below. And then it is simple maths. On the other side sony does better in the rest of the world than in the US. I think both PS360 software shipments would be the best way to have an idea of their tie ratio.
Sohter.Nura
Member
Makes me think, there's no way Sony will be losing money on the next-gen system. They just NEVER managed to catch up from it D:
Did you just read what I wrote? US being their strongest market doesn't tell us anything on attach rates in other markets. Because 360 HW is equally strong in the US.
If HW is moderate in say, France, then SW only has to be moderate ... You seem to be coming to the conclusion that 360 SW in the US is disproportionately better than HW.
U.S 9.1 isn't the highest either, UK - highest, Aus - 10.5
What you don't seem to get is that MS never cared if HD-DVD or Blu-Ray won. You make it sound like MS started the push for HD-DVD. They only supported HD-DVD(A year later) to prolong the war while they kept building up their digital push. MS HD-DVD was a strategy for the bigger picture we see today.
Yeah that's pretty much the attitude I'm taking. I'm most interested to see what Sony does and honestly I'm expecting them to come out with a great console next gen.
If you're using words like "probably", you don't have much to stand on without actual data, which AFAIK we don't have.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
patsu said:
The state of the Japanese economy is out of their hands, and that's what's causing the real damage here.
Their products are selling, but when the margins get squashed by currency-rate conversions there's not a lot you can do. Adjust your prices upwards and lose market-share, or suck-it-up and see what happens next.
What's more interesting is what is PS4 ? The core gamers' needs are known. The general public's interests are harder to grasp. Since Sony are looking at those areas, will it have mobile features ? Or integrate well with them ? Can it introduce consumer health and medical services if Sony helps to provide backend products and services ? The Wii balance board and motion games had underlying wellness theme too.
Sony needs to outsource more to Foxconn e the likes.
Why would they want to lose money on the next-gen?
I think MS and Sony will want profitable HW from day 1 although MS seem to be the company that could go longer if they decide against that, they have xboxlive to support any loss on HW. It all depends on were you spend that loss, a bundled in kinect or HW specs that benefit all third-parties and not just first party studios, maybe RAM.
I think MS and Sony will want profitable HW from day 1 although MS seem to be the company that could go longer if they decide against that, they have xboxlive to support any loss on HW. It all depends on were you spend that loss, a bundled in kinect or HW specs that benefit all third-parties and not just first party studios, maybe RAM.
Yes and no. Those external factors are not Sony's inherent problems. If they go away, Sony will face tougher competition from fellow Japanese companies. If currencies and disaesters remain a problem, the management and execution still need to carry Sony out of the red.
Pointing finger at those issues won't change the issues on hand.
I'm pretty sure the 360 dominates the PS3 in the UK as well. And if you've heard that is a pretty big market.
I'm pretty sure the 360 dominates the PS3 in the UK as well. And if you've heard that is a pretty big market.
UK has the highest attach rate for 360, and Aus has 10.5, so that's saying something compared to PS3's global 9.16~.
You're not going to get anything wildly out of that range for either console though, if HW is selling well so will SW, and vice verser if it's selling bad. Really doesn't matter much where a console is strong and where it isn't when you're talking attach rates.
Earthquake, customer data leak, and currency fluctuations. I'm surprised the loss is just 2 billion. Sony has always questionable management, but I don't think their current business model is flawed.
The ongoing global recession doesn't help too. Disposable income just about everywhere is flat if not falling, while costs are flat if not rising.
The ongoing global recession doesn't help too. Disposable income just about everywhere is flat if not falling, while costs are flat if not rising.
Ken Masters
Banned
Just imagine how bad it's going to be next year with the vita losses
Psychotext
Member
I always find statements like this interesting when you see the ridiculous success of Apple lately, especially given the price of their products.
You're right of course, but it's clear that there are ways for companies to beat the trends.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
Personally, I think the PS3's outrageous launch price had as much to do with it as the 1 year lag behind the 360.
Castef
Banned
Ideally, I imagine that when (if?) Sony approaches next-gen, it won't go for a powerhouse in terms of graphical capabilities.
Or, better: if they want to produce a very powerful console they HAVE to go first, otherwise the extra power in comparison to the other consoles on the market will be wasted.
Let's say that Microsoft launches its new console before Sony (quite plausible, if you ask me). Let's rate the power of the console a 8.
Then one year later Sony will release a more powerful console. Let's rate it a 10 in graphical power.
In the meanwhile the Microsoft console started selling well and publishers embraced it, just as already happened with a certain Xbox 360.
What would happen when a third party publisher has to develop a game on both platforms? It will happen the VERY SAME THING that happens now with PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360: the extra power of the more powerful console will get wasted, and it will be used just for (a part of) first party games. Multiplatform games will never squeeze the console extra power.
Makes no sense at all to invest lots of money in building a graphical powerhouse which creates a big gap with the other consoles, according to me.
Much better to release a good console (which DOES NOT mean "a weak one"), easy to develop on and propose it at a cheaper price.
Also I'm quite sure that the real battle will be about features. Sony this time won't have the boost in sales which was given by DVD on PS2 and Blu Ray on PS3, as it could not release a new console along with some kind of new media standard. So, it will have to battle using other features as a weapon (and no, "It's a PlayStation!" is no longer a powerful weapon).
Wii U will have its tablet and the power of the "Wii" brand, still fresh and quite exploitable.
Microsoft will probably have the next Kinect shipping along with the console.
What will Sony have? Move again? Of course, it will have to provide purchasers with something unique and I'm wondering what it will be.
Also because if they think to go on the market just using their strong lineup agains Nintendo and Microsoft... well... they will again propose Little Big Planet agains Super Mario and Killzone against Halo. Goooooood luck with this, sales wise.
Or, better: if they want to produce a very powerful console they HAVE to go first, otherwise the extra power in comparison to the other consoles on the market will be wasted.
Let's say that Microsoft launches its new console before Sony (quite plausible, if you ask me). Let's rate the power of the console a 8.
Then one year later Sony will release a more powerful console. Let's rate it a 10 in graphical power.
In the meanwhile the Microsoft console started selling well and publishers embraced it, just as already happened with a certain Xbox 360.
What would happen when a third party publisher has to develop a game on both platforms? It will happen the VERY SAME THING that happens now with PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360: the extra power of the more powerful console will get wasted, and it will be used just for (a part of) first party games. Multiplatform games will never squeeze the console extra power.
Makes no sense at all to invest lots of money in building a graphical powerhouse which creates a big gap with the other consoles, according to me.
Much better to release a good console (which DOES NOT mean "a weak one"), easy to develop on and propose it at a cheaper price.
Also I'm quite sure that the real battle will be about features. Sony this time won't have the boost in sales which was given by DVD on PS2 and Blu Ray on PS3, as it could not release a new console along with some kind of new media standard. So, it will have to battle using other features as a weapon (and no, "It's a PlayStation!" is no longer a powerful weapon).
Wii U will have its tablet and the power of the "Wii" brand, still fresh and quite exploitable.
Microsoft will probably have the next Kinect shipping along with the console.
What will Sony have? Move again? Of course, it will have to provide purchasers with something unique and I'm wondering what it will be.
Also because if they think to go on the market just using their strong lineup agains Nintendo and Microsoft... well... they will again propose Little Big Planet agains Super Mario and Killzone against Halo. Goooooood luck with this, sales wise.