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[SPOILERS] Major character death in Marvel Comics' "Civil War II" revealed

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I continue to laugh at the clusterfuck Marvel writing has become.

I maintain they should reboot the whole thing and just make the MCU the main universe.

What I don't understand is how much of hulk canon is thrown out the window here. Banner should normally hulk out at the moment of impact.
 
that was Hawkeye's excuse.

And a valid one, as far as i can see.

Banner going green-eyed before hulking out has been a thing all the way back to the 70s.

f675322f455392ed41b3e0de429cd0f9.jpg


1e91b34f12ef7f6fb6f6af1985f9f6fa.jpg
 

Slayven

Member
I continue to laugh at the clusterfuck Marvel writing has become.

I maintain they should reboot the whole thing and just make the MCU the main universe.

What I don't understand is how much of hulk canon is thrown out the window here. Banner should normally hulk out at the moment of impact.

No,
 
read what i wrote again.



both panels are when banner was clearly agitated and about to turn. (though he's obviously dying in the second shot and no longer a threat). In fact in the first scan you post Hawkeye had already fired- banner is cut off mid sentence as an arrow hits him and kills him.

PRIOR to those, banners eyes were standard brown with black pupils. They don't normally have glowing green centers- that indicates the presence of Gamma Energy which banner should absolutely not be displaying unless he's about to turn into the hulk.

and Banner wouldn't have been agitated (rightfully so) if they hadn't been hacking his server and accusing of... what exactly? man I hope they put Captain Marvel on ice, she's become such a sanctimonious character. this was murder but Hawkeye will be found not guilty cause people in the marvel universe hate the hulk and his rampages.

[/And a valid one, as far as i can see.

Banner going green-eyed before hulking out has been a thing all the way back to the 70s.
QUOTE]

right we know that, but all those heroes there know what it takes for the Hulk to show up so why Captain Marvel insisted on half the marvel U showing up I don't understand. like, why show at the doorstep of the man who is going to kill you? (I know I know, you need conflict in stories)
 
Every time I read a article about a new Marvel comic event, I feel content that dropping out of the whole comic craze during the mid-90s was for the best.
 
I continue to laugh at the clusterfuck Marvel writing has become.

I maintain they should reboot the whole thing and just make the MCU the main universe.

What I don't understand is how much of hulk canon is thrown out the window here. Banner should normally hulk out at the moment of impact.

Bendis isn't much for continuity. The first issue also had a doozy:

Cj3k8qgVEAM4lqG.jpg


A fairly significant Avengers story involved Carol being an alcoholic, going to AA, and Tony being her sponsor. Either Bendis doesn't care or Tony is a being a bad sponsor right here.
 
and Banner wouldn't have been agitated (rightfully so) if they hadn't been hacking his server and accusing of... what exactly? man I hope they put Captain Marvel on ice, she's become such a sanctimonious character. this was murder but Hawkeye will be found not guilty cause people in the marvel universe hate the hulk and his rampages.

not arguing that point. It was obviously Captain Marvel's gung ho abusing the hell out of those Visions that caused the incident in the first place. It was absolutely positively the most dumbassed call one could have made.

The point was that by the time hawkeye made the shot, Banner turning into hulk was a foregone conclusion. A second or two more and you would have had a very angry and unpredictable hulk (who knows what banner's experimenting did) and a lot of dead people.


right we know that, but all those heroes there know what it takes for the Hulk to show up so why Captain Marvel insisted on half the marvel U showing up I don't understand. like, why show at the doorstep of the man who is going to kill you? (I know I know, you need conflict in stories)

We're on the same page. It's completely nonsensical- all it accomplishes is a show of force that's going to frighten and piss off banner. almost NONE of those people there are actually capable of stopping the Hulk, they're just there to spectate and possibly die.

The point was that some people in the thread were arguing that we didn't REALLY know if Banner was going to turn into the Hulk, and Maybe Hawkeye was a murderer that fired prematurely for no reason.

That point is false. Banner was in the process of turning, the glowing eyes are a dead giveaway that marvel uses all the time to indicate this, and for some reason the only person that noticed (besides the reader) was the dude hidden up in the trees 50 yards away and not the people yelling in his face.

This is a bad event.
 

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
“This is uncharted territory for us,” Marvel Editor in Chief Axel Alonso told the Daily News.

“Only two things are for certain: it will take a long, long time for our heroes to come to terms with his loss, and the circumstance surrounding his death will leave a huge scar on the superhero community.”

HOW CAN THEY SAY THIS WITH A STRAIGHT FACE
 
People arguing over his pupils?

Fucking hell, I've seen it all

That it's subtle enough is kinda great for the story.

This is the fight they should be having.

Are these premonitions real or are we so sure they are that we are seeing excuses to act that aren't actually there.
 
Disappointing but typical I guess

#AllCharacterDeathsMatter I guess lol.

Its gender-specific connotation diminished when death and its use as shock value became more common in comic books (not that it isn't common in other media).

It's still common among female characters, because most protagonists are male. But the core idea of killing off a character for the sole purpose of evoking a reaction in the protagonist or proving how hardcore a new villain is has been done with both genders.
 

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Miles Morales happened because Peter Parker died.

Carol Danvers because Mr Marvel died.

now you say that Banner dies after asian Hulk ?

Marvel you are not doing a good job on people acepting minorities on classic roles =P

whos mr marvel?
 

Hagi

Member
not arguing that point. It was obviously Captain Marvel's gung ho abusing the hell out of those Visions that caused the incident in the first place. It was absolutely positively the most dumbassed call one could have made.

The point was that by the time hawkeye made the shot, Banner turning into hulk was a foregone conclusion. A second or two more and you would have had a very angry and unpredictable hulk (who knows what banner's experimenting did) and a lot of dead people.

I don't think you can really say it was a foregone conclusion especially the whole everyone being dead part. His experimenting could have lead to numerous outcomes. This is the big problem I have with these type of stories and with people relying on what someone sees to happen is absolutely actually going to happen. It doesn't help that this whole thing played out in the dumbest way fucking possible. I'm glad the Reed isn't around any more because we have reached the quota for people who are smart acting stupid.
 
Its gender-specific connotation diminished when death and its use as shock value became more common in comic books (not that it isn't common in other media).

It's still common among female characters, because most protagonists are male. But the core idea of killing off a character for the sole purpose of evoking a reaction in the protagonist or proving how hardcore a new villain is has been done with both genders.


It still was also that killing off women means there's even that fewer female characters.

Parity is not there so the term should maintain it's origin.

Or at most be expanded to other underrepresented groups.
 
I don't think you can really say it was a foregone conclusion especially the whole everyone being dead part. His experimenting could have lead to numerous outcomes. This is the big problem I have with these type of stories and with people relying on what someone sees to happen is absolutely actually going to happen. It doesn't help that this whole thing played out in the dumbest way fucking possible. I'm glad the Reed isn't around any more because we have reached the quota for people who are smart acting stupid.

But is the paranoia induced by the premonitions not itself part of the story?
 

dabig2

Member
read what i wrote again.



both panels are when banner was clearly agitated and about to turn. (though he's obviously dying in the second shot and no longer a threat). In fact in the first scan you post Hawkeye had already fired- banner is cut off mid sentence as an arrow hits him and kills him.

PRIOR to those, banners eyes were standard brown with black pupils. They don't normally have glowing green centers- that indicates the presence of Gamma Energy which banner should absolutely not be displaying unless he's about to turn into the hulk.

I still don't see the big discrepancy. Here's an image of when Banner first comes out:

Same colors with even a nice little glare artifact going on in the center of his pupil, just like the panels you showed.
 

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
People made similar comments about Young Wolverine and we are 2 years post his death and nothing hints at him returning.

It might stay awhile.

hey now, dont let facts get in the way of agendas

There's a Cyclops and Wolverine joke here.

thats the next x event: wolverine comes back in time to battle a recently revived scott for battle of jeans corpse. spoiler
all three are dead by the end


stan lees secret identity is staanlor the soul stealer. he even does his own narration


he wishes
 
I don't think you can really say it was a foregone conclusion especially the whole everyone being dead part. His experimenting could have lead to numerous outcomes. This is the big problem I have with these type of stories and with people relying on what someone sees to happen is absolutely actually going to happen. It doesn't help that this whole thing played out in the dumbest way fucking possible. I'm glad the Reed isn't around any more because we have reached the quota for people who are smart acting stupid.

you absolutely can. like him or not, the visions have a 100% accuracy rate. The Avengers sat on the witness stand and testified as such, and there have been other operations outside of that (with the Xmen, with Spider Man) that rack up that number substantially.

The accuracy of the visions isn't in question. Banner at that point was going to transform and going to kill them.

The problem is that no one knows how the mechanism works, and if this guy is somehow putting events in play that LEAD to a feared outcome- we've seen this happen in spider man this week, and again in civil war 3. If the visions were never made public, those events would have been avoided. Spider Man also brings up the issue of interpretation: he sees a fight between spidey and an opponent, but can't hear words and doesn't know the context. The background of that story makes it a lot more complex than the vision would make it appear at first glance.

I still don't see the big discrepancy. Here's an image of when Banner first comes out:


Same colors with even a nice little glare artifact going on in the center of his pupil, just like the panels you showed.

that's not a glare artifact, that's clearly green- its telegraphing banner's agitation after he finds an army at his door- a door that was supposed to be secret.

try finding that artifact when he's indoors. it doesn't exist. Nor does the green artifact exist in the eyes of anyone else in that book, front to back.

edit: this is immediately BEFORE banner finds an army at his door, stealing his work.

banner%202_zpsg8xuycdr.png


banner%201_zpsobsjrbbx.png


Neon Green centers to his eyes is not an artist error, or a glare artifact. Its clearly telegraphing an imminent transformation because banner is scared/angry/agitated
 
It still was also that killing off women means there's even that fewer female characters.

Parity is not there so the term should maintain it's origin.

Or at most be expanded to other underrepresented groups.

When Ryan Choi (The Atom) was killed by Deathstroke a few years back he was sent to the OG Atom, Ray Palmer, in a matchbox.

The expression "minorities in matchboxes" caught on for a bit.
 

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
When Ryan Choi (The Atom) was killed by Deathstroke a few years back he was sent to the OG Atom, Ray Palmer, in a matchbox.

The expression "minorities in matchboxes" caught on for a bit.

im glad something like that didnt catch on when bill foster bit it.
 

Hagi

Member
you absolutely can. like him or not, the visions have a 100% accuracy rate. The Avengers sat on the witness stand and testified as such, and there have been other operations outside of that (with the Xmen, with Spider Man) that rack up that number substantially.

The accuracy of the visions isn't in question. Banner at that point was going to transform and going to kill them.

The problem is that no one knows how the mechanism works, and if this guy is somehow putting events in play that LEAD to a feared outcome- we've seen this happen in spider man this week, and again in civil war 3. If the visions were never made public, those events would have been avoided. Spider Man also brings up the issue of interpretation: he sees a fight between spidey and an opponent, but can't hear words and doesn't know the context. The background of that story makes it a lot more complex than the vision would make it appear at first glance.

To me the accuracy of the visions should always be in question especially when it involves someone who I'd assume is still supposed to be a great friend to a lot of these people. I guess my biggest issue with all this is that the writing in no way can handle the scope of what they are trying to achieve.
 
To me the accuracy of the visions should always be in question especially when it involves someone who I'd assume is still supposed to be a great friend to a lot of these people. I guess my biggest issue with all this is that the writing in no way can handle the scope of what they are trying to achieve.

Civil War makes it clear that the accuracy isn't in question. he has a 0% error rate across a fairly wide number of predictions.

it's the interpretation surrounding the visions and causality that's the problem.

edit: basically this is Civil War: minority report, if that makes sense.
 

Vire

Member
This is the stupidest fucking thing imaginable, a magic arrow that was revealed in a flashback that occurs in the same issue that simultaneously isn't true to either heroes backstories?

I just have to laugh at this point.
 

ElFly

Member
If you see the Hulk standing on top of a bunch of dead superheroes, you don't send a bunch of living superheroes to stop him.

At the very least just send some LMD of Tony or something, try to avoid provoking the very incident you are trying to avoid.
 

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
If you see the Hulk standing on top of a bunch of dead superheroes, you don't send a bunch of living superheroes to stop him.

At the very least just send some LMD of Tony or something, try to avoid provoking the very incident you are trying to avoid.

isnt this the same people who sent a b team to fight thanos?
 
I continue to laugh at the clusterfuck Marvel writing has become.

I maintain they should reboot the whole thing and just make the MCU the main universe.

What I don't understand is how much of hulk canon is thrown out the window here. Banner should normally hulk out at the moment of impact.
I fully agree
 
Fucking hate Marvel writers, fucked up just about every character and plotline, seriously make up your own characters and fuck them up, don't mess with the classics.
 

Slayven

Member
This is the stupidest fucking thing imaginable, a magic arrow that was revealed in a flashback that occurs in the same issue that simultaneously isn't true to either heroes backstories?

I just have to laugh at this point.

Happened with the THorbuster too

IXwSDrM.jpg
 
I continue to laugh at the clusterfuck Marvel writing has become.

I maintain they should reboot the whole thing and just make the MCU the main universe.

What I don't understand is how much of hulk canon is thrown out the window here. Banner should normally hulk out at the moment of impact.

Sounds like a cluster. Are the filmmakers and comic book writers supposed to be completely in-sync all the time? Let everyone write their own stories please.
 

Slayven

Member
Sounds like a cluster. Are the filmmakers and comic book writers supposed to be completely in-sync all the time? Let everyone write their own stories please.

You don't want to read a series that has one issue every 2-4 years


Oh we have them now, they are usually written by JMS or Kevin Smith....
 

diaspora

Member
Bendis isn't much for continuity. The first issue also had a doozy:

Cj3k8qgVEAM4lqG.jpg


A fairly significant Avengers story involved Carol being an alcoholic, going to AA, and Tony being her sponsor. Either Bendis doesn't care or Tony is a being a bad sponsor right here.

... You know for a fact that it's not non-alcoholic?
 
You don't want to read a series that has one issue every 2-4 years


Oh we have them now, they are usually written by JMS or Kevin Smith....

It's a ridiculous complaint every time it comes up.

"Sorry character of color or non-heterosexual sexuality, you don't exist because we couldn't convince modern hollywood producers to pony up the dough to have you lead a movie."
 

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
The ultimates is the "B" team??

Good lord who is the A team? The Annihilators? I don't think they're still a thing

since when are she hulk and war machine thanos material? there were a lot of characters that had no reason fucking with thanos that day
 

Slayven

Member
It's a ridiculous complaint every time it comes up.

"Sorry character of color or non-heterosexual sexuality, you don't exist because we couldn't convince modern hollywood producers to pony up the dough to have you lead a movie."

I can't help but be a bit peeved you didn't acknowledge my sick burn.
 
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