[SPOILERS] Persona 5 Spoiler Thread | Steal your heart; steel yourself

I didn't really understand what was going on in the story after you beat Shido.
Shido confesses to his crimes in a broadcast. However, his top aides conspire to keep things going. The general public still seems highly supportive of Shido. So your team decides to raid Mementos to fix this?

After beating the last boss, Sae requests you to give a testimony about Shido's actions. It's a move that's supposed to protect the rest of the team (I don't see how?), and because you'll have effectively broken probation, you'll need to be sent to a juvenile detention center. Is my understanding correct?
 
Chrono Helix said:
I didn't really understand what was going on in the story after you beat Shido.
Shido confesses to his crimes in a broadcast. However, his top aides conspire to keep things going. The general public still seems highly supportive of Shido. So your team decides to raid Mementos to fix this?

After beating the last boss, Sae requests you to give a testimony about Shido's actions. It's a move that's supposed to protect the rest of the team (I don't see how?), and because you'll have effectively broken probation, you'll need to be sent to a juvenile detention center. Is my understanding correct?
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It's a little contrived, as far as my understanding goes, but it isn't that much of a setback, and it lets us see our co-ops having more of a practical impact than putting up their hands for the proverbial spirit bomb.

So, I'd say it's a shaky net-positive.
 
Just finished. Tremendous game, but all the fuss for Goro came down to nothing and the final boss fights are shit.

Nothing says exciting like fighting a giant vase.

I actually thought we were going to fight Igor, which would have been 2000 times better than what we got. Final boss music was weaksauce too.

The ending itself was really nice, though.

EDIT: I've just remembered the farce with Goro's ending. I have big problems with how that was handled. Goro is a complete piece of shit, but you wouldn't know it from that scene.

I'm also concerned that they didn't explicitly show him having died so that they can bring him back in spinoffs, and make him into another crappy Adachi-style character.
 
No, but we gotta automatically pity people who had a hard life~ (edit: and Adachi's case, someone who only mentioned having a hard life)

Even if they're psychotic murderers.

Oyyy... -_-
 
A Dead Diehard said:
No, but we gotta automatically pity people who had a hard life~

Even if they're psychotic murderers.

Oyyy... -_-
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It was super dumb.

I'd put the overarching plot on equal ground with P3, and below P4.

Goro was a crap villain and the vase god is a weak way to end a tremendous game.
 
Honestly, I think the Demiurge is par for the course for series villains, only without the maddeningly badly executed good intentions.

Goro... honestly, I think he's got less chance to come back than P3MC, and it would make way less sense too.
 
Dantis said:
Just finished. Tremendous game, but all the fuss for Goro came down to nothing and the final boss fights are shit.

Nothing says exciting like fighting a giant vase.

I actually thought we were going to fight Igor, which would have been 2000 times better than what we got. Final boss music was weaksauce too.

The ending itself was really nice, though.

EDIT: I've just remembered the farce with Goro's ending. I have big problems with how that was handled. Goro is a complete piece of shit, but you wouldn't know it from that scene.

I'm also concerned that they didn't explicitly show him having died so that they can bring him back in spinoffs, and make him into another crappy Adachi-style character.
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So which do you have a problem with, Goro or the final boss?

The only problems I really have with Goro is that his stuff is extremely telegraphed and that he should have interacted with the cast a lot more early to make his story actually have any real weight to it.

Last boss is explained within the story thoroughly.
 
Both, I guess?

In regards to Goro, my main problem is with the confrontation with him on the ship.
Goro is a bad guy. He killed the people on the train, right? And Haru's dad? And the school principle? And he thought he'd killed the protagonist? And goodness knows who else.

He's a bad guy, but when you beat him and he's having his little cry on the floor, I have a distinct feeling that the characters are using the words 'truth', 'justice' and 'friendship' to try and turn him, despite him being a complete piece of shit.

Then obviously he becomes a good guy and lets you get away from shadow Goro because why not. AND THEN they're all going "NO! AKECHI KUN!!!"

THIS MAN IS A GENUINELY AWFUL HUMAN BEING WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE.


The last boss might fit the themes of the game, but the designs are awful (particularly phase 1), and it feels really anticlimactic. Like I said above, even the boss theme for it is generic. So far off P3 and P4's finales.
 
Dantis said:
Both, I guess?

In regards to Goro, my main problem is with the confrontation with him on the ship.
Goro is a bad guy. He killed the people on the train, right? And Haru's dad? And the school principle? And he thought he'd killed the protagonist? And goodness knows who else.

He's a bad guy, but when you beat him and he's having his little cry on the floor, I have a distinct feeling that the characters are using the words 'truth', 'justice' and 'friendship' to try and turn him, despite him being a complete piece of shit.

Then obviously he becomes a good guy and lets you get away from shadow Goro because why not. AND THEN they're all going "NO! AKECHI KUN!!!"

THIS MAN IS A GENUINELY AWFUL HUMAN BEING WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE.


The last boss might fit the themes of the game, but the designs are awful (particularly phase 1), and it feels really anticlimactic. Like I said above, even the boss theme for it is generic. So far off P3 and P4's finales.
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None of the characters want to turn him. The most they ask is for him to help stop Shidou with them, something that Goro was planning on doing anyway. However, they do feel pity for him because they've experienced the same feelings he's had. Haru even explicitly states she doesn't plan on forgiving him for what he did to her father it's not like she's a stranger to what Goro has went through with Shidou. Even Futaba talks about understanding how he felt because she was in a similar place as he was. You totally missed out on this stuff.

Not much I can do about whether you like the design or not but the last boss is way better than P4's and contextually way more interesting than P3's even if the fight itself isn't as big of a slog. Do you have an idea of what the last boss is supposed to be?

Edit: Also, Goro is most definitely a villain. His relationship with Shidou is fucked up too.
 
Well, I mean, it's a vase that turns into a vagiely abstract mecha, but in the game I'm sure it's the manifestation of mankind's something.

I think we just see it differently. The final bosses in these games are so far removed contextually from everything else that where they fit into the lore doesn't bother me nearly as much as the actual fight.
P3's fight takes place on top of the tower you've been climbing for like 70 hours, with a rock/electronica remix of the one consistent track in the series. Visually, it looks gothic and cool and interesting. And it has cool quotes about arcana.
P4's fight is less interesting, but is preceded by the most visually interesting dungeon in the game, along with one of Meguro's best battle tracks (fog) and an orchestral medley of several of the games other tracks (Genesis).
P5 is a fight against a giant vase that's covered in gears and rotates slowly. The track is a track that's been previously used in five other fights. When you beat it, it turns into a barely moving statue/mech with one of the shorter music tracks in the game (ironic for a 30 minute fight). It doesn't feel final.

I just didn't find it at all exciting. I was convinced there must be something more, and that this was the Ameno Sagiri equivalent, but nope.
 
Oh, you don't like the mechanical bits.

I think it's still way cooler than either P3 or P4's because of the lore aspects and how it integrates into the entire run to the end. How Mementos and the last boss really integrate into the story is very strong. Then there's the final confrontation. You're fighting above the city as people slowly awaken to a Shibuya that looks like it's been turned into hell. They come to the realization about what's happening and the snowball of support starts happening. Seeing the entire crew stand up after getting knocked down and getting the backing of everyone to settle it was great.

I mean, it's essentially the spirit bomb but the fact it ties so well into the themes and messages makes it exciting. It involves everyone and not just a bunch of teenagers and their collaborators.
 
I mean, that happens in Persona 3 and 4 too, right? And I'd argue it was stronger in P4, because all the individual characters came to reinforce Narukami personally.
When Shibuya is chanting for the thieves, I only saw three S Links because I'd been focusing on party ones and they don't show up in it. It was kinda lame tbh.

P5's thing is more like P3, except instead of having the finger of truth he summons his own mech.
 
Dantis said:
I mean, that happens in Persona 3 and 4 too, right? And I'd argue it was stronger in P4, because all the individual characters came to reinforce Narukami personally.
When Shibuya is chanting for the thieves, I only saw three S Links because I'd been focusing on party ones and they don't show up in it. It was kinda lame tbh.

P5's thing is more like P3, except instead of having the finger of truth he summons his own mech.
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In concept, it's similar to P3 and P4 but it's limited to the S.Links in both games when it comes to the action itself, as I recall. It's stronger in P5 because it's not just the Co-Ops that are sending you power but it's the non-party Co-Ops trying to wake everyone in the population up to what's happening and to get them to support the Thieves. It's everyone in Tokyo that gets up and fights alongside the protagonists.

It's also better because it means something different compared to the other games.. P3 had you stopping death from coming and P4 had you stopping a misguided goddess. With P5, you're breaking people free from a god that humanity literally desired into being so that it could control them. It is essentially humanity taking back their free will, their freedom, from shackles they put themselves in. The entire ending is all about that. It's a very optimistic ending considering how much dark shit happens throughout the game.
 
I loved the P5 final fight and thought the OST track was awesome. Having to grind through the four angels was pretty shit though - those were slow and boring. The vase was also a bit anticlimactic.

Honestly, the last 5 hours felt like a nonstop grind as someone who came in underlevelled on Easy (LV65 for final fight). The story was great, but after 70 hours, I started to really dislike the dungeons and the final Mementos run was crazy for someone who didn't stay up to date with it.

Absolutely sublime game experience, but it's too long for its own good I think. Heaven forbid we ever get P5 Crimson.
 
I think I like 2 or 3 hours after I get into Mementos. I entered at 60 on Hard and I was getting tagged bad on Hard. So I needed to get a few levels. I think I spent more time fusing Persona than I did grinding and I blew through the 4 angels easily. Best moment was when I faced Gabriel and it did God's Judgement or whatever the skill is that halves your HP. I had Yoshitsune equipped which reflect Blessing attacks. She instantly loss 3/4 of her life and I killed her with a few attacks after that.
 
Shouta said:
In concept, it's similar to P3 and P4 but it's limited to the S.Links in both games when it comes to the action itself, as I recall. It's stronger in P5 because it's not just the Co-Ops that are sending you power but it's the non-party Co-Ops trying to wake everyone in the population up to what's happening and to get them to support the Thieves. It's everyone in Tokyo that gets up and fights alongside the protagonists.

It's also better because it means something different compared to the other games.. P3 had you stopping death from coming and P4 had you stopping a misguided goddess. With P5, you're breaking people free from a god that humanity literally desired into being so that it could control them. It is essentially humanity taking back their free will, their freedom, from shackles they put themselves in. The entire ending is all about that. It's a very optimistic ending considering how much dark shit happens throughout the game.
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Like I say, I think we see it differently. Involving the world at large isn't better to me, because I don't care about the faceless masses.
As far as humanity taking back their free will, that applies to P3 and P4 also. They just don't have a crowd of nobodies with them.

As a side note, are you forced to do Mementos then? I was already at the bottom when it started, and did wonder what happens if you're not.

If you have go through all of Mementos, that actually a really bad design choice, even if it didn't affect me.
 
Kanann said:
Both 4 and 5 unable to top P3 last boss for me.
Nyx avatar and the music at that moment is godly.
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P5's isn't even close.
P4's is admittedly not an overly brilliant fight, but Fog is amongst Meguro's best, and the end when all the S Links come and pick Narukami up is really nice. Narukami taking off his glasses is also uber cheese but still cool.
 
Dantis said:
Like I say, I think we see it differently. Involving the world at large isn't better to me, because I don't care about the faceless masses.
As far as humanity taking back their free will, that applies to P3 and P4 also. They just don't have a crowd of nobodies with them.

As a side note, are you forced to do Mementos then? I was already at the bottom when it started, and did wonder what happens if you're not.

If you have go through all of Mementos, that actually a really bad design choice, even if it didn't affect me.
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Free will in P3 and P4? Uh, not really? lol. I mean it's an end result of what occurred but it's not at all what the games are thematically about and the reason the battles are fought.

Just gonna have to chalk up to playing the games for different reasons. I don't see any point where P5's endgame is not above P3 and P4's on the basis of story, themes, etc. P3 and P4 are definitely below P5 in that area though for different reasons.

Maybe on a mechanical front with the last battle itself but the fight is more interesting than slogging through all the Arcanas versus Nyx Avatar. It could have been harder is my only real complaint.

As for Mementos, dunno if you have to go all the way down if you haven't done it but it wouldn't surprise me if the player had to. It's not all that different from Tartarus in that respect though. It's actually easier and faster to go through Mementos because the layouts are small and predictable making it easy to just gun for the stairs down. If you have Ryuji's Co-Op leveled up, it's even easier when you're at the end of the game.
 
I just realised that it would have made a lot more sense to play the track that plays after you've summoned your ult Persona in the actual boss fight instead, and then moved the current final boss theme to the vase fight.

That track is actually really good, and feels way more final.

EDIT: I'm just listening to the final boss theme now. It's still a good track, I guess, it's just not very epic. Feels quite Nocturne-y to me, actually.
 
I'm on New Game+, and at the scene where Goro outs himself with the pancakes. There's about 25 lines between Morgana's initial mention and Goro talking about the pancakes, which is why I completely overlooked. Everyone present did have a question mark over their heads when he brought it up, but that's still really subtle. Even so, 25 lines ahead means he should have overheard a lot. Ryuji also mentioned being in the phantom thieves in the same conversation.

Edit: Random thought about Shidou: I was reminded so strongly of Metal Gear Rising when I fought him. Both the way the music gains vocals when he fights on foot, and his appearance. And you just KNOW he'd have another form when he's got restrainers all over him.
 
Chrono Helix said:
Edit: Random thought about Shidou: I was reminded so strongly of Metal Gear Rising when I fought him. Both the way the music gains vocals when he fights on foot, and his appearance. And you just KNOW he'd have another form when he's got restrainers all over him.
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Anything y'know about him playing college ball? XD
 
Playing on NG+ I noticed a very clever foreshadowing. You're asked in class what does the hearts suit in cards represent. It represents the holy grail. Your team steals hearts. What's the final boss?
 
Need this information answered for a friend:

How important is Makoto Nijima to the storyline? If anybody can answer this, please send it to me in PM. Thank you.
 
Okay so I really need to know this since it's been in my mind:

What's the deal with Igor? Is it a fake? If so, why imitate him? Does his Co-op give any interesting details?

I'm asking since he's never had any type of focus until now and I'm really curious to see what's up with him.
 
D-Man said:
Okay so I really need to know this since it's been in my mind:

What's the deal with Igor? Is it a fake? If so, why imitate him? Does his Co-op give any interesting details?

I'm asking since he's never had any type of focus until now and I'm really curious to see what's up with him.
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It's a fake. It's the final boss in disguise (which is why he has a different voice). Once Caroline and Justine and fused together again, the real Igor is revealed.

Honestly that twist was far more surprising (and meaningful) then the Akechi twist.
 
OldGangWarily said:
It's a fake. It's the final boss in disguise (which is why he has a different voice). Once Caroline and Justine and fused together again, the real Igor is revealed.

Honestly that twist was far more surprising (and meaningful) then the Akechi twist.
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Probably the idea.

Although, since they've doubled-down on Igor being reduced to clips of the original VA, I really don't know what they're going to do moving forward. It honestly feels kind of weird that the series seems so devoted to its own form of status quo.
 
Chrono Helix said:
I'm on New Game+, and at the scene where Goro outs himself with the pancakes. There's about 25 lines between Morgana's initial mention and Goro talking about the pancakes, which is why I completely overlooked. Everyone present did have a question mark over their heads when he brought it up, but that's still really subtle. Even so, 25 lines ahead means he should have overheard a lot. Ryuji also mentioned being in the phantom thieves in the same conversation.

Edit: Random thought about Shidou: I was reminded so strongly of Metal Gear Rising when I fought him. Both the way the music gains vocals when he fights on foot, and his appearance. And you just KNOW he'd have another form when he's got restrainers all over him.
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Haha interesting for me it was major Dragonball vibes. Especially because of the restrainers. Could have sworn that one of the DB characters did something like that in a tournament.
 
Holundrian said:
Haha interesting for me it was major Dragonball vibes. Especially because of the restrainers. Could have sworn that one of the DB characters did something like that in a tournament.
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You might be thinking of Master Roshi. One time he just exploded into a giant buff man.
As far as restrainers go, I don't remember them getting any more blatant than weighted clothing.
 
Chrono Helix said:
From another thread:


Doesn't sound like it'd make for a very interesting dungeon.
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We had a locker room. It was at the start of Kanji's dungeon.

If anything, I'd expect it to be a theater. None of its real and nothing has consequence to him.

And now I realize we're getting dangerously political.
 
I'm surprised people didn't like the last boss and dungeon. It felt old school SMT, which I adored. The final boss has rockin' music, and I found the boss itself interesting.

I beat the game at like, lvl 71, so the last boss was actually kind of a slog, but I really enjoyed it.

I thought Goro was kind of a crappy villain all said and done, but I loved the twist where Goro outs himself and thinks he's shot the protagonist in the head. That part really got me. I loved the cutscene that follows that, too.

The Holy Grail was awesome imo. I really liked the design for the "true form".

That final gun shot from the giant Persona was pretty killer, too.

Dantis said:
I just realised that it would have made a lot more sense to play the track that plays after you've summoned your ult Persona in the actual boss fight instead, and then moved the current final boss theme to the vase fight.

That track is actually really good, and feels way more final.

EDIT: I'm just listening to the final boss theme now. It's still a good track, I guess, it's just not very epic. Feels quite Nocturne-y to me, actually.
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It sounds plenty epic to me, and I'm listening to it right now.
 
Yeah, I didn't like the final boss story-wise. The game's strongest moments are when it's very personal while feeling grounded in some way (nudge nudge Kamoshida), so I was hoping that the game would buck the JRPG trend of fighting some god who's only purpose is to make you feel like it's going to be a huge challenge (until you realize it isn't). It would've been cool to me if the last boss was just some dude that has a lot of personal problems developed throughout the game that would feel climatic and satisfying... hmmm...

Although the sequence with Joker shooting the god in the face was totally anime in all the rights ways IMO.

Also, I was hoping the ending was going to be a bit more shocking. At one pointing I was really pushing for the last shot to be Joker being arrested and driven away in a police vehicle for his crimes as his friends watch or maybe run after him in vain, sort of as an inversion of P4's cliched and saccharine chase after Yu leaving on the train.
 
I'm in a way torn on that. On one hand I totally get that want for bucking the last god boss trope on the other hand I just totally dig that aspect cause I think it's kind of part of the connective tissue and meta narrative.

What it comes down to is that I hope it's going to pay off at some point in some way.
All these world arcanas Igor helps creating... I hope that leads to something down the line(like maybe breaking P3 guy/gal out of the seal).
 
Holundrian said:
I'm in a way torn on that. On one hand I totally get that want for bucking the last god boss trope on the other hand I just totally dig that aspect cause I think it's kind of part of the connective tissue and meta narrative.

What it comes down to is that I hope it's going to pay off at some point in some way.
All these world arcanas Igor helps creating... I hope that leads to something down the line(like maybe breaking P3 guy/gal out of the seal).
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What, like a couple billion World arcanas and we'll finally end up with another Universe?
Not likely.
 
A Dead Diehard said:
What, like a couple billion World arcanas and we'll finally end up with another Universe?
Not likely.
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In case this was a serious answer, I was more thinking along the lines of we have these different world arcanas born from different type of trials. P4 reaching the truth and P5 breaking the chains that bind us. As I understand it breaking the seal is not the main challenge here but preventing Erebus is. So the meta idea is basically having enough world arcanas being born out the necessary trials to mend/guide/transform humanities grief and negative feelings.

The power to make people see the truth(about themselves), the power to inspire them breaking the stuff(negative emotion, misfortune, etc) that chains them down.
Plus whatever the next games are going to be about. And some point you'll have quite a few world arcanas that all have the capacity to bring forth change in a certain way and when enough change accumulates we solve Erebus. And it's not really about magic mumbo jumbo casting that stuff away but more leaning into the concept that all it does take is 1 person to start getting change rolling but it takes many to achieve it. Basically world arcanas as the catalyst for the needed change.

Not sure where the making a billion world arcanas to make a universe arcana comes from. I mean that's not even how it happened in P3 itself.
And yeah I also kind of do think most of this stuff won't really be picked up in a meaningful way but it's part of the fun to imagine especially when it comes to mythical stuff in fiction in general. Well at least for me it is.

Also yeah all that stuff is pretty vanilla in a way and not what would draw me into it. It's just a reason to possibly dive way more into the persona mythos itself as main focus, possibly exploring characters like Elizabeth, Igor, Philemon more.
 
OldGangWarily said:
It's a fake. It's the final boss in disguise (which is why he has a different voice). Once Caroline and Justine and fused together again, the real Igor is revealed.

Honestly that twist was far more surprising (and meaningful) then the Akechi twist.
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Yep. That part was actually really good, and the hilarious hoops that Atlus jumped through in regards to Igor's presence in the spinoff games is both impressive and bonkers.

Trigonometrize. said:
Yeah, I didn't like the final boss story-wise. The game's strongest moments are when it's very personal while feeling grounded in some way (nudge nudge Kamoshida), so I was hoping that the game would buck the JRPG trend of fighting some god who's only purpose is to make you feel like it's going to be a huge challenge (until you realize it isn't). It would've been cool to me if the last boss was just some dude that has a lot of personal problems developed throughout the game that would feel climatic and satisfying... hmmm...
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This is absolutely how I feel. Couldn't give a hoot about the random masses' strife. It's meaningless to me, and them chanting for the thieves is the wrong kind of cheese. I don't feel like the party earned it.
 
Holundrian said:
snip.
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I was half joking about how many literal worlds it takes to make a literal universe.

But yeah, if these Wild Cards' actions improve humanity to the point where Erebus is no longer relevant, that makes for a nice long game. (long game as in storyline, not as in an idea for a long single game)

Though it still makes me wonder what Liz is actually doing to advance her own quest.
Oh whatever. :/
 
Reportedly, there's references to Katsuya, Akihiko, and Chie on the tv.

Oh, and Tanaka makes his glorious return.

As for that plot, it doesn't seem to even be addressed as ongoing.
Which is convenient since, in my timeline, that's been put to rest. ;)
 
LoneliestGhost said:
Is there any hint of P3's story continuing? Like in P4?
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I think the tradition for main game references is really to only go one game back. IIRC, P4 only references P3, and P3 only makes reference to characters from P2 and P1 characters that were in P2. P2...well has characters from P1. If you wanna go really deep, P1 has the main character from SMT if running around.

As I haven't actually played the game I can't confirm what ADD is saying up there (Aside from Tanaka), but I can confirm the posters because I saw them (and Tanaka) on the playthrough I watched.
 
I was really hoping the storyline where Elizabeth went off to find a way to revive P3 MC continue a bit in P5. I know people dont want the previous games to meddle the new game but still.
 
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