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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works

Boke1879

Member
None of that matters. The movie tells us in many ways that there's something unique, special about Rey. Also, nothing in the Star Wars universe says a character can't develop as quickly as Rey did.

Again we were told Luke and Anakin were special as well. (Btw I had issues with Anakin using force choke all of sudden)

But the audience accepts Luke and Anakin being special because at the heart of it all they still needed training to develop and control those powers. Anakin in TPM has heard of Jedi and knows of their powers. The most he does is use reflexes. How would you feel if young Anakin with no force training whatsoever was Jedi mind tricking people?

Again I'm not doubting Rey's power. Hell in ESB Luke force pulls his saber to him in the ice cave with seemingly no training. So I have no issue with Rey doing it in the fight. Her mind battle with Ren I attribute it to her own sheer force of will and her dormant powers being unlocked.

Again the issue comes from her being able to mind trick. Sure she fails twice, but it's still comes at relative ease
 

Fencedude

Member
She didn't seem utterly bewildered by it. She seemed caught in the excitement with Finn at the time. I don't think that was her moment because it wasn't fantastical. It was within the realm of possibility for a normal person to do. Poe could have done it. Lando could have, too. Additionally, there's no realization or epiphany about it like she did when she did the mindtrick. She gets into the Falcon, gets her bearings, and then flies off.


"How did you do that?!"

"I have no idea!"

Literally dialog from right after the Falcon escape
 
Has nothing to do with the novel. I infered the same thing about Rey and Kylo's mind fight. That was Rey's jacking into the Matrix, 'I know kung fu' moment. Kylo knew shit was brewing at that point as well, as he warns that her power is growing fast and the longer they take to find her the more powerful she'll be.
Yeah, though the Matrix did a better job of the transition.

Not that I want to bring back the Finn stuff but the Matrix did a better job there too, when Morpheus tells Neo that anybody still connected to the Matrix is a potential enemy until they can be physically rescued. Poe could have said something similar to Finn at the beginning of the hangar firefight.

Also, I didn't read the novel so my impression was just from that moment in the film, not any other knowledge.
 

Scrooged

Totally wronger about Nintendo's business decisions.
Then why equip Stormtroopers, who can be easily mindtricked by Jedi, with gear designed to fight against Jedi?

Does it even work in the middle of battle? It's always shown during one-on-one conversations when everyone is relatively calm.
 

Boke1879

Member
She didn't seem utterly bewildered by it. She seemed caught in the excitement with Finn at the time. I don't think that was her moment because it wasn't fantastical. It was within the realm of possibility for a normal person to do. Poe could have done it. Lando could have, too. Additionally, there's no realization or epiphany about it like she did when she did the mindtrick. She gets into the Falcon, gets her bearings, and then flies off.



Twice is enough. Plus I have the script with me.



Then why equip Stormtroopers, who can be easily mindtricked by Jedi, with gear designed to fight against Jedi?

To your last question. I assume if the FO had found Luke they would have a whole army of troops. I don't think Luke would have the time to Jedi mind trick them lol.
 

-griffy-

Banned
She didn't seem utterly bewildered by it. She seemed caught in the excitement with Finn at the time. I don't think that was her moment because it wasn't fantastical. It was within the realm of possibility for a normal person to do. Poe could have done it. Lando could have, too. Additionally, there's no realization or epiphany about it like she did when she did the mindtrick. She gets into the Falcon, gets her bearings, and then flies off.
No dude. The moment was her putting the Falcon into a controlled free fall, so the ship is positioned perfectly so the broken turret points directly at the moving TIE Fighter and Finn can shoot it. That's the fantastical thing. They are both absolutely excited and exclaiming about how crazy what just happened was.

There's no realization about the Force then because at that point she has no concept that she could even have the Force, and still she comments that she's never done anything like that before. Later when she does the mind trick she already conclusively knows she has the Force.
 
She didn't seem utterly bewildered by it. She seemed caught in the excitement with Finn at the time.
Doesn't matter if you *think* it isn't. That's what was in the movie. That was her tapping into the force for the first time. That was her awakening. That's why Snoke says it!

Jeez, man. You didn't watch the movie. You just saw what you wanted to see.
 
"How did you do that?!"

"I have no idea!"

Literally dialog from right after the Falcon escape
Yes though imagine if somebody had told her about the force stuff early and in that first, fumbling sequence with the Falcon, she does the close-her-eyes thing and then snaps into focus, and then gets control. I think that would have helped.

I think that, in her flashback, it's Max Von Sydow who she's left with and I wonder if they couldn't have showed him giving her some advice or knowledge about the force early on that could have given her a foundation.
 
Again we were told Luke and Anakin were special as well. (Btw I had issues with Anakin using force choke all of sudden)

But the audience accepts Luke and Anakin being special because at the heart of it all they still needed training to develop and control those powers.
Right. And so does Rey obviously.
 
Has nothing to do with the novel. I infered the same thing about Rey and Kylo's mind fight. That was Rey's jacking into the Matrix, 'I know kung fu' moment. Kylo knew shit was brewing at that point as well, as he warns that her power is growing fast and the longer they take to find her the more powerful she'll be.

And it's only really a problem if people keep thinking of the Force as a strict video game progression system, where you unlock this power at this level, rather than the organic, intuitive, unpredictable force it is.

Some folks did infer it, possibly out of complete logical desperation, but seemingly a decent amount of other movie goers did not. That is a narrative failure, it means the idea was not conveyed well enough.

That scene is written so vaguely you could easily make the case Rey remembered it from her equally vaguely implied jedi-training as a child, because that flashback actually exists within the narrative of the movie, the "remember previous training" theory is less of stretch for the audience than the poorly communicated "Force downloaded skill".
 

Boke1879

Member
I think it would have been a bigger payoff if they somehow worked it as Rey trying to use the mind trick at different spots in the movie but failing, then she has the convo with Maz about closing your eyes and feeling the force. Then have the big payoff with her using it while she was restrained.

I think again the main issue is that it happens so fast. It's in the same scene. She fails twice and yes she does calm herself before using it a 3rd time, but you're expecting the audience to just accept that she knows how to mind trick and that fast. Some accept and some don't.

It's not a fault on Rey or Daisy the actress. In that moment it's more so an issue with the script/pacing.
 

gblues

Banned
I agree that Rey's abilities seem a little accelerated, but I'm willing to attribute that to the fact that it was a life-or-death situation, and the trope of "powers that only emerge under stress" is pretty common (the idea being that Jedi training allows the Jedi to tap into the Force all the time, not just when under stress).
 
Again we were told Luke and Anakin were special as well. (Btw I had issues with Anakin using force choke all of sudden)

But the audience accepts Luke and Anakin being special because at the heart of it all they still needed training to develop and control those powers. Anakin in TPM has heard of Jedi and knows of their powers. The most he does is use reflexes. How would you feel if young Anakin with no force training whatsoever was Jedi mind tricking people?

Again I'm not doubting Rey's power. Hell in ESB Luke force pulls his saber to him in the ice cave with seemingly no training. So I have no issue with Rey doing it in the fight. Her mind battle with Ren I attribute it to her own sheer force of will and her dormant powers being unlocked.

Again the issue comes from her being able to mind trick. Sure she fails twice, but it's still comes at relative ease

I really feel that 60 seconds of having Ren bearing down on her mind was worth years of Luke fumbling around trying to figure out how to do the JMT. Also, all of Luke's training was like the written part of a drivers test where Rey was thrown onto the highway.
 

-griffy-

Banned
Some folks did infer it, possibly out of complete logical desperation, but seemingly a decent amount of other movie goers did not. That is a narrative failure, it means the idea was not conveyed well enough.

That scene is written so vaguely you could easily make the case Rey remembered it from her equally vaguely implied jedi-training as a child, because that flashback actually exists within the narrative of the movie, the "remember previous training" theory is less of stretch for the audience than the poorly communicated "Force downloaded skill".
Again, it's only a problem if you apply some strict, linear power level idea of the Force, or some literal "downloaded skill" thing to my dumb Matrix analogy. She was simply exposed to Kylo's mind, which is enough. And even if you don't like that, the idea that the Force rushing into her and her being able to simply intuit the mind trick, after having just gotten into and won a mind reading fight, shouldn't be that crazy of an idea on its own. The Force has awakened in her so strongly that not only did Snoke and Kylo sense it across the galaxy, but they named the damn movie after it.
 
Some folks did infer it, possibly out of complete logical desperation, but seemingly a decent amount of other movie goers did not. That is a narrative failure, it means the idea was not conveyed well enough.

That scene is written so vaguely you could easily make the case Rey remembered it from her equally vaguely implied jedi-training as a child, because that flashback actually exists within the narrative of the movie, the "remember previous training" theory is less of stretch for the audience than the poorly communicated "Force downloaded skill".

Where was it implied that she had jedi-training as a child? I've seen it twice and completely missed that.
 
No dude. The moment was her putting the Falcon into a controlled free fall, so the ship is positioned perfectly so the broken turret points directly at the moving TIE Fighter and Finn can shoot it. That's the fantastical thing. They are both absolutely excited and exclaiming about how crazy what just happened was.

For me, that's something that even the mundane can do. It didn't seem like she was tapping into the Force to me.

Doesn't matter if you *think* it isn't. That's what was in the movie. That was her tapping into the force for the first time. That was her awakening. That's why Snoke says it!
For my enjoyment of the movie, what I think matters.

Yeah, Snoke says it, well after she escaped. Usually, when filmmakers want to connect something like that, they would insert a line right before the previous scene ends. They could have had Snoke say "There has been an Awakening" after Finn asks her how she did it and she says I don't know. In fact, they don't even really bring attention to the question and her answer. It's in the middle of dual dialogue. If I wanted to convey that she was tapping into the Force then, I would have written like this:

Rey and Finn celebrate their victory.

REY: You got him in one blast!

FINN (cocky): That was amazing. That was some great flying! How did you do that?

REY: I don't know...

SNOKE (VO): There has been an Awakening

Cut to Snoke sitting on the throne. Kylo Ren kneels before him.

SNOKE: Can you feel it?

KYLO: Yes.


But that's my take.

To your last question. I assume if the FO had found Luke they would have a whole army of troops. I don't think Luke would have the time to Jedi mind trick them lol.
lol I'm imagining Luke mindtricking all of them and has an entire army at his disposal.
 
Then why equip Stormtroopers, who can be easily mindtricked by Jedi, with gear designed to fight against Jedi?

They don't, or at least do an extremely poor job of it?

If you're talking about TR-8R, then for probably the fifth time: that is not an anti-Jedi weapon. There's an infographic over in the Stormtrooper armor thread the spells it out explicitly as being a riot control weapon, and even if it weren't, I honestly have no idea why you would think they would give a Stormtrooper a shock baton and a shield that can't stop a ligthtsaber as "anti-Jedi" weapons. Those are the absolutely dumbest anti-Jedi weapons anyone could possibly come up with.

It's like strapping a beaker full of acid on top of someone's head and telling them you gave them an "anti-baseball bat" weapon.

We're probably going to see the Empire's concept of "anti-Jedi weapons" with the Knights of Ren, as it's likely they are the ones Snoke put together as his special "Let's Kill Luke" task force.
 

Boke1879

Member
I really feel that 60 seconds of having Ren bearing down on her mind was worth years of Luke fumbling around trying to figure out how to do the JMT. Also, all of Luke's training was like the written part of a drivers test where Rey was thrown onto the highway.

Very possible and it's one of my theories as well. And again. I realize this is the first movie of a trilogy. We have no idea about her past and no doubt in Episode 8 we'll get a lot of exposition explaining a lot of stuff.
 
I think it would have been a bigger payoff if they somehow worked it as Rey trying to use the mind trick at different spots in the movie but failing, then she has the convo with Maz about closing your eyes and feeling the force. Then have the big payoff with her using it while she was restrained.

I think again the main issue is that it happens so fast. It's in the same scene. She fails twice and yes she does calm herself before using it a 3rd time, but you're expecting the audience to just accept that she knows how to mind trick and that fast. Some accept and some don't.

It's not a fault on Rey or Daisy the actress. In that moment it's more so an issue with the script/pacing.

Agreed, it's not even remotely a Rey specific problem either. The movie is rushing so much the pacing lessens plenty of different things:

-Sets up Phasma to standout, wastes Phasma.
-Doesn't really setup the New Republic, expects us to care when those planets blow up.
-R2-D2 is in low power mode, R2-D2 wakes up without explanation.

All the above characters/scenes/etc still kinda work, but they are handled in such a way they pull some of the audience out of the movie. They are slight narrative disconnects for the audience that a vaguely tweaked script would fix.
 

Veelk

Banned
That's what makes it interesting :). The shot blocks, to me, seem like baby steps. The bigger, more fantastical stuff such as telekinesis and mind control requires more effort and training. Personally.
Again, your taking the word of someone who had no idea the force was an actual thing two seconds before he saw it. It's a shot that promises bigger things because if all that the force was good for was blocking shots from a minor toy droid, it'd be pretty useless. It has nothing to do with what an ignorant outback merc thinks about it. If anything, he's the antagonist of the force's potential in the framing here, downplaying it as much as possible to preserve his image of being a world savy smuggler.

Why? We can only speculate on it though. I say because it's something more difficult to learn. It's one thing to block shots, it's another to control a person's mind.

Because he's a guy who likes to solve his problems by taking a sword out and stabbing/shooting fools. It's only blind speculation if you ignore the kind of character Luke is.

The movie doesn't give the audience (me) the time to process that information, so it feels unearned and rushed and unbelievable. The movie's pacing is hurts itself like a confused Pokemon.

I disagree. For the most part, especially in the first two acts, the movie's pacing is fine. People are acting like the movie is on speed or something, but while I agree it's relatively fast paced, it's hardly on meth or anything like that.

I don't really consider Rey to be a master. The JMT, to me is more advanced than the telekinesis. Her Force timeline is just so compressed that it makes it hard to believe. If it was stretched out over the course of most of the movie, I bet you wouldn't have as many Mary Sue complaints.

Again, your estimation is based on pretty much nothing from what you've answered so far. It's a very facetious answer to say "This is difficult because I think it is, therefore it's bullshit that the character was able to do it."

And I care very little about how many mary sue complaints are made. I care which ones are valid. Big difference. People are wrong all the time, even large quantities of them. You agreed that the movies pacing is what leads to this feeling. I might agree that it is a bit much to take in at first. However, that's the situation with the vast majority of film, for one reason or another. That's why second viewings are helpful and help illuminate what wasn't clear at first. The conclusive element of whether or not Rey has issues with being too skilled is ultimately a narrative cohesion issue. Because while the fast pace means information is more difficult to process, that doesn't mean it's impossible. Otherwise, we would have no way to argue what we saw in the movie.

For me, that's something that even the mundane can do. It didn't seem like she was tapping into the Force to me.

The force isn't just called upon for the impossible. No one said that the shot on the death star in ANH was actually impossible, otherwsie there would be no point, just very, very, very, very difficult. Like Rey's flying.
 
Just a musing: Vader was never the master, he was an apprentice technically. So when he tells the Vader mask that he'll fulfill "our destiny" he's thinking about how Vader never completely inherited Palpatine's position. Would it be too weird if he tries to kill Snoke in Episode lX?
 
Just a musing: Vader was never the master, he was an apprentice technically. So when he tells the Vader mask that he'll fulfill "our destiny" he's think about how Vader never completely inherited Palpatine's position. Would it be too weird if he tries to kill Snoke in Episode lX?

It wouldn't be weird at all. In fact, I want him to do it in Episode 8.
 

Boke1879

Member
Agreed, it's not even remotely a Rey specific problem either. The movie is rushing so much the pacing lessens plenty of different things:

-Sets up Phasma to standout, wastes Phasma.
-Doesn't really setup the New Republic, expects us to care when those planets blow up.
-R2-D2 is in low power mode, R2-D2 wakes up without explanation.

All the above characters/scenes/etc still kinda work, but they are handled in such a way they pull some of the audience out of the movie. They are slight narrative disconnects for the audience that a vaguely tweaked script would fix.

Phasma to me was never going to get big screen time in this movie. I suspect she'll have a bigger role in Episode 8. Finn made her out to be a fool.

The New Republic imo is a backdrop and now those planets are gone. For me. That's all I need to know. The new republic is now in disarray.

The biggest thing you mentioned is honestly my biggest gripe with the movie. R2 just waking up at the end to put everything together.

But honestly not that I'm defending it. R2 has always been sort of a deus ex machina character. Fixing the hyperdrive on the falcon so they can escape Vader, opening the doors on Cloud City, Finding the princess, Stopping the trash compactor, having the plans to destroy the Death Star, etc.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Maybe Skippy was able to somehow transfer some of his force sensitivity to R2-D2 when he sacrificed himself on Tatooine, and R2 woke up upon sensing the force in Rey.
 
Also, just now noticing, the first two spoiler threads crossed 19k posts in about a week each. This one's at about 1/3rd that.

Might not need a thread #4 at that speed.
 
Where was it implied that she had jedi-training as a child? I've seen it twice and completely missed that.

The ultra-vague hodge-podge of scenes that make up that vision/flashback "could" imply Kylo Ren killed some people the audience "could" infer as Luke's students and because Rey "might" have been there as a child it "could" point to her being a student "maybe".

It's a hell of a leap for the audience to make, but more than a few have made it, and it's likely do to with the fact those pieces exist within the movie to potentially draw that conclusion from, it takes some narrative squinting to make work, but I can sort of see how they got there.

Whereas "force skill download" from Kylo Ren is not particularly well communicated within the scene it happens, or in the later scene in which the downloaded JMT happens. It took the novelization to clarify completely, and that's likely a decent sign the "force download" idea should have been conveyed better to the audience.
 
I honestly have no idea why you would think they would give a Stormtrooper a shock baton and a shield that can't stop a ligthtsaber as "anti-Jedi" weapons. Those are the absolutely dumbest anti-Jedi weapons anyone could possibly come up with..

Unless I misremembered it, wasn't TR-8R blocking the lightsaber with the riot baton? I thought it was meant to combat Jedi. Guess I was wrong.

Come on man. This is a joke at this point, right?

I do remember Qui Gon telling Anakin that his reflexes are a sign of his Force potential, especially since he's the only human doing the pod-racing. I can chalk up Rey's piloting skills to that then.

Still, as a moment of clarity with her potential with the Force, it feels like it was glossed over. No attention was really brought to it, in my opinion.

I might agree that it is a bit much to take in at first. However, that's the situation with the vast majority of film, for one reason or another. That's why second viewings are helpful and help illuminate what wasn't clear at first.
My feeling on film is that it should convey it well the first time. A movie can have the small subtle details strewn throughout it to make it a deeper experience for those who do view it multiple times, but major stuff should be conveyed fairly well to prevent confusion and disbelief.


The force isn't just called upon for the impossible. No one said that the shot on the death star in ANH was actually impossible, otherwsie there would be no point, just very, very, very, very difficult. Like Rey's flying.

There was that one guy who said it was impossible. But I think he was just being hyperbolic.

QUICK SOMEBODY BRING UP FINN NOT BEING COMPELLED ENOUGH
Am I being called upon?
 

Veelk

Banned
My feeling on film is that it should convey it well the first time. A movie can have the small subtle details strewn throughout it to make it a deeper experience for those who do view it multiple times, but major stuff should be conveyed fairly well to prevent confusion and disbelief.

That's up to the viewer though, not the movie. It's perfectly posssible to pay enough attention to the film to understand how everything fits together the first time around. It's not even all that hard either, just maybe harder than the typical SW film, but hardly difficult.

There was that one guy who said it was impossible. But I think he was just being hyperbolic.

Obviously, or less the rebellion would be running their asses home.
 
The ultra-vague hodge-podge of scenes that make up that vision/flashback "could" imply Kylo Ren killed some people the audience "could" infer as Luke's students and because Rey "might" have been there as a child it "could" point to her being a student "maybe".

It's a hell of a leap for the audience to make, but more than a few have made it, and it's likely do to with the fact those pieces exist within the movie to potentially draw that conclusion from, it takes some narrative squinting to make work, but I can sort of see how they got there.

Whereas "force skill download" from Kylo Ren is not particularly well communicated within the scene it happens, or in the later scene in which the downloaded JMT happens. It took the novelization to clarify completely, and that's likely a decent sign the "force download" idea should have been conveyed better to the audience.

That's a whole lot of leaps to get to her being jedi trained by Luke. Her visions started at Cloud City and I didn't once think she was there. It felt more like a general "Force Vision" to me. Something along the lines of a visual representation of what OB1 would see in his mind when he says that he feels a "disturbance in the force".

As to her learning, I wouldn't go as far as to call it a "force skill download". The push and pull of their face off was VERY well communicated. You could see each moment of Rey learning and gaining confidence and an opposite moment of Ren loosing his grip on her mind. She put that learning experience together with the old tales of Jedi Mind Tricks and had the confidence to keep trying with nothing left to loose.
 
Phasma to me was never going to get big screen time in this movie. I suspect she'll have a bigger role in Episode 8. Finn made her out to be a fool.

The New Republic imo is a backdrop and now those planets are gone. For me. That's all I need to know. The new republic is now in disarray.

The biggest thing you mentioned is honestly my biggest gripe with the movie. R2 just waking up at the end to put everything together.

But honestly not that I'm defending it. R2 has always been sort of a deus ex machina character. Fixing the hyperdrive on the falcon so they can escape Vader, opening the doors on Cloud City, Finding the princess, Stopping the trash compactor, having the plans to destroy the Death Star, etc.

I never expected Phasma to do much either, but I do think they set her up enough that lots of people expected something more than her just instantly rolling over and lowering the shields at the end of the movie...but part of that was the marketing fault.

My frustration with the R2-D2 stuff is it could have been easily fixed by having C3PO/BB-8 walk away and something like R2's light power on/off briefly... it would have been a small cue that communicated something was happening.

It's a nitpick, a small oversight in a movie that was written and filmed very very fast that turned out pretty damn good.
 

Veelk

Banned
No, that's up to the movie. It's always up to the movie.

No, that's up to the viewer. Some people simply do not pay attention. That's not on the movie. The movies task is to provide the content to the best of it's ability. The viewer's job is to catch it all. The movie obviously has provided said content, or else I wouldn't be able to name the things that justify Rey's abilities. Then the fault is with the viewer.

Obviously. I didn't think the trench run shot was impossible.

And yet necessitated the force
 
No, that's up to the viewer. Some people simply do not pay attention. That's not on the movie. The movies task is to provide the content to the best of it's ability. The viewer's job is to catch it all. The movie obviously has provided said content, or else I wouldn't be able to name the things that justify Rey's abilities. Then the fault is with the viewer.
The fault is on the movie for not conveying it better. I can understand if someone was on their phone or had a divided attention, but most of the people complaining about it saw the movie in theaters with little distractions. They paid attention, but they still didn't pick up on things.

For some people, it worked. Others, it didn't.
 

maxcriden

Member
Saw the movie yesterday. It was solid. Pretty much what I'd heard. Felt very much in the Marvel mold, I expect future films will be similar. The giant villain seems like a cheesy antagonist. I didn't know Thanos would be in this.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Only annoying thing about the new Death Star is that it is even more massive than previous ones, can still move (so requiring crazy amounts of energy), yet was built by a weaker empire, no longer at full strength? Just seems unlikely. Also even though they defeated it, it still sucked up the sun from the system. So now there is a new sun where star killer base was - won't that fuck everything up in the system anyway as the system's star has now moved.
 

Fencedude

Member
Only annoying thing about the new Death Star is that it is even more massive than previous ones, can still move (so requiring crazy amounts of energy), yet was built by a weaker empire, no longer at full strength? Just seems unlikely. Also even though they defeated it, it still sucked up the sun from the system. So now there is a new sun where star killer base was - won't that fuck everything up in the system anyway as the system's star has now moved.

I see JJ Abrams isn't the only person who has no idea how space works

It won't matter. The star in a useless piece of shit star system moved a few million miles to the side. Literally inconsequential on any sort of larger scale.
 

Veelk

Banned
The fault is on the movie for not conveying it better. I can understand if someone was on their phone or had a divided attention, but most of the people complaining about it saw the movie in theaters with little distractions. They paid attention, but they still didn't pick up on things.

That assumes that people are unfailing machines of attentiveness merely because they're not being deliberately inattentive. Very untrue, and I've seen it happen across hundreds of things. Have you ever played CoD4? Spoilers, but a character dies in the middle from a nuke. That didn't stop my friend, who was not only paying attention but heavily into the story from going "Oh, man, that nuke scene was so intense and heavy. I'm so glad the character survived though!" I can name you hundreds of anecdotal examples I've seen either on gaf or elsewhere where people who claim they were paying attention miss important details that are in your face.

People fuck up. Hard and often, whether they're 'paying attention' or not. We are VERY faulty information processing machines. So if it's up to the viewer to study the film, and check for what they missed, because they always miss things, and that's not the movie's fault that happens.
 
People fuck up. Hard and often, whether they're paying attention or not.

Then the creator should convey the information better. With so many people missing information in TFA, it seems to me that the movie failed to convey the information effectively.
 
the-onion-fast-five-lead.jpg


Chris Morgan came up with the Starkiller Base design and function
 
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