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[excelsiorlef]

that was the most horrible wrap-up ever. " everyone's

Spoiler

dead and in the afterlife

, that explains everything" . wtffff

That really wasn't it at all.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Again Jedi and Sith boundaries are stupid. You can be light or dark without being good or evil. That's what I believe these new movies will cover. There are moments in 7 where I'm like damn Rey is scarier than Ren. It doesn't matter which side they fall on.

And I hate to bring this up but what if this story is STILL about the chosen one?

You sound like a Sith with that talk! Light is good and Dark is evil! End of story!

And do you mean the ST is still going to center around Anakin somehow?

 

[brandonh83]

You sound like a Sith with that talk! Light is good and Dark is evil! End of story!

And do u mean the ST is still going to center around Anakin somehow?

I kinda want it to if I'm allowed a moment to be honest.

1-6 do. Why shouldn't 7-9?

 

[Ushojax]

I'll be the first to admit that Snoke is kind of a deliberate retcon in a way. I don't feel an organic correlation between Snoke and the events of the ENTIRE SERIES until this point. It's not really a problem exactly, but this is why I was kinda hoping at one point that Snoke was Plageuis as at least it would sorta make more sense as Plageuis was name dropped as early as Episode III.

I'm sure whatever explanation they have is fine and will work, it's just hard to believe that Snoke has been this evil mastermind the entire time. Unless Snoke is Boss Ass.

I don't think Snoke is some mastermind who has manipulating the whole saga from the shadows. I think he's more of an opportunist who has been biding his time, waiting for a chance to seize power.

My gut feeling is that he's some Wizard of Oz-type character who will be exposed as a feeble old man with shitty Force ability who is quickly killed by Kylo, who becomes the new Supreme Leader. I can see him taking out Hux as well.

 

[Mendax]

That really wasn't it at all.

it wasn't? that's defo what I and fam. took away from the finale

I don't think Snoke is some mastermind who has manipulating the whole saga from the shadows. I think he's more of an opportunist who has been biding his time, waiting for a chance to seize power.

My gut feeling is that he's some Wizard of Oz-type character who will be exposed as a feeble old man with shitty Force ability who is quickly killed by Kylo, who becomes the new Supreme Leader. I can see him taking out Hux as well.

I think he'd have to be reeally powerful to seize control of the empire if he wasn't there already somehow

Valid point. Officially, we know that the movies center around the Skywalker family. I don't know how Vader would be a part of the ST, though, unless they resort to Force Ghost Hayden or some type of reincarnation plot. I haven't given it much thought, though, and Lucasfilm Story Group surely employs some creative minds.

I think it'd be pretty cool actually to have qui gonn, obi wan, yoda and anakin as ghosts in that first jedi temple there!

 

[Fourth Storm]

I kinda want it to if I'm allowed a moment to be honest.

1-6 do. Why shouldn't 7-9?

Valid point. Officially, we know that the movies center around the Skywalker family. I don't know how Vader would be a part of the ST, though, unless they resort to Force Ghost Hayden or some type of reincarnation plot. I haven't given it much thought, though, and Lucasfilm Story Group surely employs some creative minds.

 

[brandonh83]

I don't think Snoke is some mastermind who has manipulating the whole saga from the shadows. I think he's more of an opportunist who has been biding his time, waiting for a chance to seize power.

My gut feeling is that he's some Wizard of Oz-type character who will be exposed as a feeble old man and quickly killed by Kylo, who becomes the new Supreme Leader. I can see him taking out Hux as well.

This would work just fine. Though I still feel like it'd be cheap. There's so much to draw from so far in this series that just suddenly including Snoke would be weird. I wouldn't question it much since it's Star Wars, but it feels like the least creative direction... oh he's been there the whole time. It doesn't work.

 

[Astral Dog]

Agreed. He could have been watching from afar in the unknown regions. I found the Plagueis cheating death angle to be pretty intriguing, but it seems from interviews that that door is closed. I feel like they need to tie him in to some event/character in a meaningful way, however, in order to explain his prominence/presumed force abilities.

And just for fun, Plagueis created Anakin: Yes or No?

No, it was supposed to be Palpatine who created Anakin.

 

[Moonkid]

Is Laser IMAX better than 70mm IMAX? There are several options in London and I'm going to the BFI IMAX theatre tomorrow, but there is Empire in Leicester Sq that shows laser.

Haven't seen 70mm IMAX so I can't say sorry. Why not both ?

 

[j-wood]

Snoke couldn't have been alive during the clone wars....what about the only 2 sith at a time rule?

 

[Daemul]

Again Jedi and Sith boundaries are stupid. You can be light or dark without being good or evil. That's what I believe these new movies will cover. There are moments in 7 where I'm like damn Rey is scarier than Ren. It doesn't matter which side they fall on.

And I hate to bring this up but what if this story is STILL about the chosen one?

Rebels is exploring the idea of unaffiliated force users with Ashoka, who is neither Jedi or Sith, so I can see the movies carrying that on.

 

[brandonh83]

I watched TPM last night and as a member of Neogaf's Blockbuster Defense Force... man it's bad. I think the action, podrace, soundtrack, art, some of the story and final battle are very very cool... but overall it's just BAD. I put Attack of the Clones and especially Revenge of the Sith WAY WAY WAY above it.

Rebels is exploring the idea of unaffiliated force users with Ashoka, who is neither Jedi or Sith, so I can see the movies carrying that on.

Oh shit. Seriously? I haven't had a chance to catch up but with the CW series I can see this happening. Ahsoka is a FANTASTIC character.

 

[Ushojax]

I think he'd have to be reeally powerful to seize control of the empire if he wasn't there already somehow

He's not really seized control of the Empire, he leads their most die-hard remnants, the ISIS of the SW galaxy. They are able to hide from the Republic in the outer rim, they are not a fighting force on the scale of the Empire.

This would work just fine. Though I still feel like it'd be cheap. There's so much to draw from so far in this series that just suddenly including Snoke would be weird. I wouldn't question it much since it's Star Wars, but it feels like the least creative direction... oh he's been there the whole time. It doesn't work.

There's no reason it can't work, it's better if he's a new character. We already have two lead actors who are related to the stars of the OT, we don't need the villain to be Palpatine's master/secret apprentice/accountant as well.

 

[Surfinn]

I watched TPM last night and as a member of Neogaf's Blockbuster Defense Force... man it's bad. I think the action, podrace, soundtrack, art, some of the story and final battle are very very cool... but overall it's just BAD. I put Attack of the Clones and especially Revenge of the Sith WAY WAY WAY above it.

Interesting. Why is Episode 2 above it?

 

[Astral Dog]

He's not really seized control of the Empire, he leads their most die-hard remnants, the ISIS of the SW galaxy. They are able to hide from the Republic in the outer rim, they are not a fighting force on the scale of the Empire.



There's no reason it can't work, it's better if he's a new character. We already have two lead actors who are related to the stars of the OT, we don't need the villain to be Palpatine's master/secret apprentice/accountant as well.

But somehow they were able to create a Death Star that makes the others look like toys,

 

[Messypandas]

TPM is the only one that feels like it has a bit of design to it. The Podrace, Tattoine, The Generator Room. The two sequels to it feel wholly artless and superficial.

 

[sphagnum]

Snoke couldn't have been alive during the clone wars....what about the only 2 sith at a time rule?

He's not a Sith.

 

[Sephzilla]

I watched TPM last night and as a member of Neogaf's Blockbuster Defense Force... man it's bad. I think the action, podrace, soundtrack, art, some of the story and final battle are very very cool... but overall it's just BAD. I put Attack of the Clones and especially Revenge of the Sith WAY WAY WAY above it.

For me Phantom Menace is miles ahead of Attack of the Clones. Yeah, the story doesn't really matter much at all to the rest of the prequels, but the positives you listed above are bigger positives than anything I can list from Attack of the Clones. Yeah, Maul vs Obi-wan/Qui-Gon is an emotionally meaningless fight but from a visual standpoint its good and from a choreography standpoint its probably the most "like the OT" lightsaber duel in the prequels. Clones just has nothing for me, except Anakin going ham on some sand people.

I legitimately think the entire prequel trilogy would have been viewed a lot better if AOTC was more on par with TPM or ROTS. AOTC is so awful it sinks the entire trilogy.

 

[Altairre]

I'm beginning to think that Rey's character arc and flaws will end up being that she's too Force sensitive and that she'll have trouble keeping her powers at bay. Unless this was the extent of how crazy gifted she is, but I dunno, Ben is terrified of her and I think both light and dark centric characters will be fighting over her. And I think it will be up to Luke and Finn to keep her in check.

Whatever the case they didn't write her to be that strong and perfect and I think it'll backfire in the worst ways imaginable. She'll either get way too confident and make a huge mistake resulting in death and destruction, or decide to be neutral and not really on a particular side. Either way the speculation is pretty fascinating and it helps make the wait for 8 unbearable.

I really like this comment because it shows why it's so hard for me to judge this movie. I'm one of the people who wasn't that happy with how smooth everything goes for her but without the larger context I can't possibly tell if it actually ends up being a negative thing since there are so many places they could take it.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Snoke couldn't have been alive during the clone wars....what about the only 2 sith at a time rule?

There are hints that Snoke may not be a Sith.

Rebels is exploring the idea of unaffiliated force users with Ashoka, who is neither Jedi or Sith, so I can see the movies carrying that on.

Interesting. I've only seen a couple of episodes so far, but I'll have to do some catching up.

I watched TPM last night and as a member of Neogaf's Blockbuster Defense Force... man it's bad. I think the action, podrace, soundtrack, art, some of the story and final battle are very very cool... but overall it's just BAD. I put Attack of the Clones and especially Revenge of the Sith WAY WAY WAY above it.

Yeah, I remember liking Attack better back in the day, but I'm due for a reviewing of the entire saga. Everything but the ham-fisted love story seemed better to me.

 

[Ushojax]

But somehow they were able to create a Death Star that makes the others look like toys,

We don't know enough about Snoke or the First Order to say it's implausible they could build Starkiller base. Maybe it was built by the Empire? Or the New Republic in secret, only to be commandeered? Maybe Snoke is the Donald Trump of SW and bankrolled it personally. Maybe it was some ancient installation they stumbled upon, KOTOR style.

 

[Astral Dog]

AotC
Even had that silly ending with the Empire music over the clone Army and the Death Star

 

[GhaleonEB]

I also really like Killrogg's post a few pages back, I think it kind of hits on this idea in a different way, and I love how he points out the way individual character's use of the Force are reflections of those characters.

Great post, and I'd missed Killrogg's as well. Kylo's force use reflects his personality as much as his saber does.

 

[Messypandas]

We don't know enough about Snoke or the First Order to say it's implausible they could build Starkiller base. Maybe it was built by the Empire? Or the New Republic in secret, only to be commandeered? Maybe Snoke is the Donald Trump of SW and bankrolled it personally. Maybe it was some ancient installation they stumbled upon, KOTOR style.

Way back in the original plot leaks (before casting even) that turned out to be mostly legit, Starkiller was the sith homeworld and yeah they found the weapon.

 

[Sephzilla]

We don't know enough about Snoke or the First Order to say it's implausible they could build Starkiller base. Maybe it was built by the Empire? Or the New Republic in secret, only to be commandeered? Maybe Snoke is the Donald Trump of SW and bankrolled it personally. Maybe it was some ancient installation they stumbled upon, KOTOR style.

My headcanon thinks that Starkiller base is so massive it almost had to start as an Imperial project. The first Death Star started getting built at the end of Revenge of the Sith, we don't know when the second one started (all we know was that it was extremely rushed), so building a Death Star that is literally a planet had to have taken extremely long.

 

[Gozer the Gozerian]

My headcanon thinks that Starkiller base is so massive it almost had to start as an Imperial project. The first Death Star started getting built at the end of Revenge of the Sith, we don't know when the second one started (all we know was that it was extremely rushed), so building a Death Star that is literally a planet had to have taken extremely long.

Then again, Death Star 2 was started after the destruction of the first one right? Meaning it only took a few years to put together. Whereas even if Starkiller was started after ROTJ they had like ten times as much time to build it. Still think Starkiller base was kinda lame but it doesn't seem crazy impossible to me in the star wars universe.

 

[Daemul]

Way back in the original plot leaks (before casting even) that turned out to be mostly legit, Starkiller was the sith homeworld and yeah they found the weapon.

Am I reading this right, Starkiller was going to be Moraband?

I'm not sure how to react to this.

 

[Surfinn]

Great post, and I'd missed Killrogg's as well. Kylo's force use reflects his personality as much as his saber does.

Some fantastic points in that post. In the original trilogy, the force was also used metaphorically, which made each character feel personalized, enhancing the visual/mythological storytelling. I do agree that the force was just recklessly thrown in for the purpose of looking cool in the PT.

 

[Squall ASF]

Dooku owns Kenobi
Anakin owns Dooku
Yet Kenobi > Anakin in the final fight

wtf

He had the high ground! DUH! ;p

I agree. Also think about Kylo vs. Rey from where they came from. Kylo comes from a place of privilege. He's never had to worry about food or shelter. His mother is royalty, his father is Han fucking Solo and his uncle is the dude who saved the galaxy. In the movie the mutherfucker is on an air-conditioned ship chilling out doing whatever the fuck he wants.

Now Rey, poor as fuck, living in an AT-AT's foot, scrounging shit from old spaceships so she can make herself a fucking inflatable muffin to eat. That muffin is prolly covered in sand too... Anakin would hate that shit.

One could argue that Rey has far more life experience than Kylo. She's had to fend for herself most of her life while Kylo has had everything handed to him on a silver platter (from the light and dark side).

This made me laugh out loud.

 

[Sephzilla]

Then again, Death Star 2 was started after the destruction of the first one right? Meaning it only took a few years to put together. Whereas even if Starkiller was started after ROTJ they had like ten times as much time to build it. Still think Starkiller base was kinda lame but it doesn't seem crazy impossible to me in the star wars universe.

I don't think they ever firmly establish when the construction of the second Death Star began. Common logic would say after the destruction of the first Death Star because "why would the Empire need two Death Stars?" to which I would respond with "because they're the Empire". You also need to remember that the second Death Star was significantly larger than the first one, and they were apparently working double/triple shifts just to get it to the state it was in.

I think it's possible that the First Order made Starkiller base on their own but I'd put a safer bet on it being a project that the Empire started at or just after Return of the Jedi.

 

[sphagnum]

Am I reading this right, Starkiller was going to be Moraband?

I'm not sure how to react to this.

That was the implication, at least. This was the so-called "Mizzlewump" dump:

I've read the second draft of the Abrams/Kasdan script.

I've chosen a trip so that people can't BS in my name when trailers, other media, and the film itself confirm what I say. I won't post again until then so as not to be accused of attention whoring.

Please don't read unless you want to have the film spoiled.

>Leia is made leader of the Republic after her predecessor’s death
>Han is a retired veteran of the Republic fleet
>Luke hasn’t been seen in nearly 30 years
>the lead character is Han and Leia’s daughter
>the other lead is the child of Lando, and either a male or female depending on who is cast
>the other lead is a Stormtrooper, also either a male or female depending on who is cast
>dialogue for these two characters is very rough in the second draft
>Luke has no known offspring
>The Empire still exists in the form of a number of loyal galaxies and are in a state of cold war with the Republic
>The Empire is simply referred to as the “Empire,” and the Republic is referred to formally only once, as the “Galactic Republic;” no “New” anywhere
>There are no Jedi whatsoever, and people still speak as if they are extinct, with Luke being “the last of his kind”
>The main antagonists are an older student of the Emperor, and his apprentice
>The apprentice takes control of the power dynamic between the two pretty quickly…
>The Republic are excavating ruins on a neutral world for a weapon; the world factors into tense negotiations the Empire have had with the Republic, and is referred to as the “Sith Homeworld”
>Loredump: In the script, the Sith are a couple thousand years old, founded by an ancestor of Palpatine called Ruin; the apprentice in this film also goes by that name
>the ruins within the Sith Homeworld are a control station; the planet itself is the weapon
>Luke saves the day at the end, but in a bad way; he has changed

This was before the cast was announced, from what I remember, so it was quite some time ago.

 

[CreepingFear]

Just got back from taking my mom to see Force Awakens at one of those fancy theaters with recliner seats. She loved it! She was worried that Poe had died. She called Kylo Ren a fucker when he killed Han. Also, she confirmed that the prequels sucked. The end.

 

[Messypandas]

The second death star was like the Japanese portal in Contact.

 

[Arthea]

I think we talked VIII into the ground, is it even possible to come up with something that haven't been speculated or fantasized about in here?

 

[televator]

Just got back from taking my mom to see Force Awakens at one of those fancy theaters with recliner seats. She loved it! She was worried that Poe had died. She called Kylo Ren a fucker when he killed Han. Also, she confirmed that the prequels sucked. The end.

Even moms know the prequels suck. Truthfact

 

[CreepingFear]

Even moms know the prequels suck. Truthfact

Moms are always right.

 

[Birbo]

I think we talked VIII into the ground, is it even possible to come up with something that haven't been speculated or fantasized about in here?

Was there any discussion on the opening "LucasFilms" screen without any fanfare? Know they couldn't do the 20th Century Fox build up, but it seemed like they could have done something.

 

[-griffy-]

I think we talked VIII into the ground, is it even possible to come up with something that haven't been speculated or fantasized about in here?

I don't think there's been enough discussion about the insta-bread that Rey makes.

EDIT: The first thing my mom said after seeing the movie was "That was fucking awesome!" I overheard another mom, who clearly hadn't seen any previous Star Wars movie, asking her daughter all about who the guy at the end was. Was that Luke? So he's a big deal kind of? Is Rey his daughter? Who was Luke's love interest in the old movies? (there was a pause after that question, and I didn't catch the full answer but it involved a bit of explanation )

 

[Surfinn]

I don't think there's been enough discussion about the insta-bread that Rey makes.

As a side note, the music that plays when her food rises and into the next scene of her looking into the sky is phenomenal.

 

[sphagnum]

I don't think there's been enough discussion about the insta-bread that Rey makes.

They made it look too good for something that's supposed to be rations.

 

[Arthea]

Was there any discussion on the opening "LucasFilms" screen without any fanfare? Know they couldn't do the 20th Century Fox build up, but it seemed like they could have done something.

That's terrifying, why would you post something like this?!


also I came up with one more thing we haven't talked about, what if... Leia joins the darkside for quick boost in powerz and goes after whiny Kylo ass herself.

They made it look too good for something that's supposed to be rations.

define too good

 

[PrivateWHudson]

Way back in the original plot leaks (before casting even) that turned out to be mostly legit, Starkiller was the sith homeworld and yeah they found the weapon.

Would be great to find out that the deathstars were just Palpatine's sad attempts to recreate the lost Sith homeworld. Snoop, who doesn't believe in that Sith one master/one apprentice crap, had found it at some point while Palpatine was busy training Vader and taking over politically.

 

[Digital-Hero]

Was there any discussion on the opening "LucasFilms" screen without any fanfare? Know they couldn't do the 20th Century Fox build up, but it seemed like they could have done something.

I was suprised how much that didn't bother me. I just want to watch the damn movie.

 

[TheSadRanger]

Then again, Death Star 2 was started after the destruction of the first one right? Meaning it only took a few years to put together. Whereas even if Starkiller was started after ROTJ they had like ten times as much time to build it. Still think Starkiller base was kinda lame but it doesn't seem crazy impossible to me in the star wars universe.

My thing with Starkiller, and I'm sure this has been asked before and I know it's "Star Wars". Is how do you aim a planet? I mean aren't you pretty much reliant on wherever it's pointing to due to it's orbit.

 

[sphagnum]

define too good

I'd eat it!

Also I love Kylo Ren's leitmotif but it seriously reminds me of something from Pokémon. Like, I seriously think I remember part of Team Rocket's music being extremely similar, but not as slow or ominous.

 

[Cth]

Rey would have lost to Kylo had he been at full strength.

But what is full strength?

Even if he hadn't taken a gut shot, he'd be toast.

Rey was channeling more dark side than Kylo was and was getting angrier by the moment, while he was becoming increasingly out of touch.

Now, if he hadn't killed Han and realized it didn't turn him into Vader, then you'd have a point. But it depends on what you mean by full strength.

 

[Digital-Hero]

But what is full strength?

Even if he hadn't taken a gut shot, he'd be toast.

Rey was channeling more dark side than Kylo was and was getting angrier by the moment, while he was becoming increasingly out of touch.

Now, if he hadn't killed Han and realized it didn't turn him into Vader, then you'd have a point. But it depends on what you mean by full strength.

Where is that conveyed? Please don't mention facial expressions.

 

[brandonh83]

Interesting. Why is Episode 2 above it?

I like what happens in it above 1.

 

[heliosRAzi]

The second death star was like the Japanese portal in Contact.

"They should've sent a poet!"

George Lucas rolls in.

 

[inm8num2]

NSIAP

'Awards Chatter' Podcast — J.J. Abrams ('Star Wars: The Force Awakens') (THR)

"It was obviously a wildly intentional thing that we go backwards, in some ways, to go forwards in the important ways, given that this is a genre — that Star Wars is a kind of specific gorgeous concoction of George [Lucas]'s — that combines all sorts of things. Ultimately the structure of Star Wars itself is as classic and tried and true as you can get. It was itself derivative of all of these things that George loved so much, from the most obvious, Flash Gordon and Joseph Campbell, to the [Akira] Kurosawa references, to Westerns — I mean, all of these elements were part of what made Star Wars."

He continues, "I can understand that someone might say, 'Oh, it's a complete rip-off!' We inherited Star Wars. The story of history repeating itself was, I believe, an obvious and intentional thing, and the structure of meeting a character who comes from a nowhere desert and discovers that she has a power within her, where the bad guys have a weapon that is destructive but that ends up being destroyed — those simple tenets are by far the least important aspects of this movie, and they provide bones that were well-proven long before they were used in Star Wars."

...

In summation, he says, "Yes, the bones of the thing we always knew would be a genre comfort zone, but what the thing looks like — we all have a skeleton that looks somewhat similar, but none of us look the same. To me, the important thing was not, 'What are the bones of this thing?' To me, it was meeting new characters who discover themselves that they are in a universe that is spiritual and that is optimistic, in a world where you meet people that will become your family."

Some other good quotes from Abrams there. Didn't listen to the podcast, though.