But if this is the case and he's done this out of mercy or compassion, wouldn't he want to kill her as much if not more than Han? To rid himself of his light side/weakness? The moment he realizes who she is, surely he'd make it his damn MISSION to eliminate her.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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But if this is the case and he's done this out of mercy or compassion, wouldn't he want to kill her as much if not more than Han? To rid himself of his light side/weakness? The moment he realizes who she is, surely he'd make it his damn MISSION to eliminate her.
LegendofLex
Member
I mean, that's kind of the weird thing about this movie in general: lots of different things - not just permutations of various theories but a bunch of completely different theories, too - seem like they're pretty plausible and even pretty likely.
Apart from the really out there stuff, of course.
I think the simplest explanation is that the vision traces the events that lead to Rey's need to take up the lightsaber.
Anything on top of that is speculation at this point.
Liquidsnake
Banned
But Ren knew of her, that much we do know.
prag16
Banned
And the way he reacts when he finds out "a girl" has become a thorn in his side definitely indicates he knows something. As if he knew she was nearby, and hoped she wouldn't get involved... but as soon as he hears "a girl" he knows. Like Vader knew the Rebels were on Hoth as soon as he saw the feed from the destroyed probe droid.
That's a valid point. But not if he sees her as a potential ally. He says he wants to train her. Together they can DESTROY Snoke, and rule the galaxy as etc etc etc.
The Librarian
Banned
Im talking about Rey being Han and Leia's kid.
Upon learning she's force sensitive, Ren immediately goes to Snoke, who tells him in no uncertain terms, "Bring her to me."
That's why he wasn't trying to kill her in the forest, but drive her to submission. He's under orders.
Right, that's a good point. I really hope they don't go so much on the nose though, as we saw almost this exact same situation with Vader/Luke. I would think his desire to rid himself of weakness would overcome the possibility of her being turned.
Another good point, forgot he was directed to do so. So we can assume that both Ren AND Snoke know exactly who she is then (especially upon learning she's force sensitive)?
Something else I'd like to add: I REALLY hope if he did leave her out of compassion, this is addressed as a weakness from the perspective of the dark side. Maybe Snoke can comment on how he was able to rid part of his connection to the light side by killing his father but that he still made the ultimate mistake of not finishing what he started at the Jedi Temple. Maybe he'll punish him for allowing Rey to become so strong.
The Librarian
Banned
One huge problem with this is the "I'm waiting for my family." How could Ben fill that role?
WadiumArcadium
Member
From what Pablo Hidalgo's said, it seems Rey was left on Jakku before the Knights of Ren flashback.
"You are here waiting for your family."
"I AM HERE WAITING FOR MY FAMILY"
(assuming that even works on the minds of Force sensitive children)
After TFA, we should drop the Machete order see the saga in a new order.
Start with TFA and watch until Reys Vision.
Then put in A New Hope and watch Obi Wan remebers the truth, put then Attack of The Clones and Revenge of the Sith in.
Then Watch A New Hope from after the scene were Obi Wan remembers the truth, continue with Empire Strikes Back and turn of when Luke drops the lightsaber in Cloud City.
Then continue with TFA.
It makes the most sense.
Start with TFA and watch until Reys Vision.
Then put in A New Hope and watch Obi Wan remebers the truth, put then Attack of The Clones and Revenge of the Sith in.
Then Watch A New Hope from after the scene were Obi Wan remembers the truth, continue with Empire Strikes Back and turn of when Luke drops the lightsaber in Cloud City.
Then continue with TFA.
It makes the most sense.
prag16
Banned
She never expressed knowing anything in particular about her family. With Kylo's proven ability to invade minds, he may have clouded her memories and perceptions with regard to that. She's left confused in the custody of Unkar Plutt, potentially with limited concrete idea of what she's doing there, other than a hazy notion that she's waiting for her family to return.
Again, it's speculation at this point, but the problem you mention isn't necessarily a dealbreaker.
Also, if she's screaming "come back" to whoever left her, who is she talking to? Surely not the dark side user who just destroyed her life and left her on Jakku?
This is a good point, and the biggest hole in the theory.
I like the theory because Rey's powers in TFA are basically all because of Ren, backfiring on him. So that would make it a continuation of what we saw in the film.
I tend to gravitate toward simple interpretations, but it would require a more convoluted explanation for it. But it's one I like the most of all the theories I've read so far.
The story itself is pretty clear cut but the backstory was more muddled, hence a lot of this theorycrafting. The history of the First Order, Kylo Ren's turn, and most of the events between VI and VII are still really vague.
prag16
Banned
Now that you mentioned it, I vaguely remember some tweet indicating that. If accurate, that would certainly nuke the "Kylo left her" theory from orbit. But that would then mean the flashback vision was out of order. Don't they show her being dropped on Jakku AFTER Kylo's betrayal in the rain?
Pretending the prequels don't exist is still clever/edgy.
The Librarian
Banned
Except she remembers YELLING "come back!"
You know what, I think I remember this from right after TFA came out. He said Luke disappeared "not that long ago" or something to that effect, which would scorch the Ren spares Rey theory.
Wow, I just imagined a flashback scene where Ben is using the force to trick and convince her that she was left by her family, allowing him a scene that can potentially get emotional before she's ultimately left on Jakku. Maybe not only emotion for leaving a child on a deserted planet, but the uncertainty of his actions and decision to destroy what Luke built and join Snoke.
prag16
Banned
So? She just knows she's being stranded, with a big ugly goon no less. Why shouldn't she yell "come back" even if she's sort of muddled on who's leaving her there and why?
It's Reyn Time!
Member
It's neither clever or edgy, but it's a great way to avoid watching three shitty, shitty films.
It's not that they don't exist. It's that they're awful and I'd never subject myself to watching them again. Nothing clever or edgy, just not going down a masochistic path.
There are a couple of movies missing.
prag16
Banned
Leaving them off a list as if they don't exist comes across as though you're trying to be funny.
Not everybody agrees with you, and you're potentially doing a disservice to NEW viewers of the franchise by telling them not to watch certain entries.
If the credits roll on VIII and we still don't know anything about her parents, or who dropped her off at Jakku I'd be surprised. In spite of Trevorrow's comments. Maybe we don't have the full picture by then, but finding out little else beyond what we know now would be absurd and unexpected. (And infuriating for a lot of fans.)
Meh, she very clearly is yelling in agony that she's being left by someone who she cares about then spends the next 10-15 years waiting for her family to return. There's no way she remembers it like that unless she actually WAS left by someone who she considered family or her mind was tampered with.
Of course it is. We're on movie one of three; I'd be deeply concerned if there weren't theories and questions left unanswered.
That's part of the fun.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
He's under no obligation whatsoever to recommend films which he believes are awful.
prag16
Banned
Right, that's what I'm saying. If her mind wasn't tampered with, the "Kylo left her" theory can't possibly work whatsoever.
...unless... the plan to sack Luke's academy was already in the works, and he hid her there preemptively beforehand. In that case it WOULD be somebody she trusted and cared about leaving her. But then the vision of Kylo in the rain doesn't really make much sense. Who knows.
Thats nothing new, Star Wars threw you always more or less in the story. Just look at A New Hope, there are so many things not explained or told
The Librarian
Banned
Whenever I rank the movie I only go TFA + OT. Rest I can't be bothered to rank.
prag16
Banned
Just throw them at the bottom then. They're still Star Wars films, whether all the so called "true fans that MUST hate the prequels" like it or not. Leaving them off lists like that implies that it goes without saying that the prequels are universally hated by everyone and therefore aren't worth mentioning in conversation.
Don't forget how many people on this very forum rank Sith above Jedi whenever somebody kicks off a rankings-fest. Not sure if it was the majority, but a very large minority at minimum. Being so dismissive of the films to the point that many essentially pretend they don't exist comes off as kind of pretentious.
The Librarian
Banned
so don't rank them via another way?
CD'S BAR
Member
This also happens to be their order from best to worst (I still like ROTJ and TFA though.)
Ah, gocha. Sorry, can you explain why it doesn't make sense (the rain scene)? I'm trying to imagine it. I really really like the idea that the plan to destroy the academy was in place for a long time and Kylo hid her before it was executed.. if it makes sense in relation to the rest of the story, of course.
It's interesting that Rey never shares with or asks anyone specifically about her family.. leading me to believe if Ren DID leave her, he definitely influenced her emotions/motivations with the force. If she had a clear understanding of who her family is and who left her, she surely would have mentioned it to someone, especially Maz, who was alone with her and addressed the issue directly.
I think it's a bit different when you're building on something already established though. The jump from VI to VII is pretty jarring. A New Hope neatly sets up the Empire being evil, Rebels being good, without the need for backstory because how those two groups came to be doesn't impact the story. Conversely, TFA is supposed to directly build on the foundation left by the OT. How that foundation has changed, especially when those changes are the driving force behind the new trilogy, is kind of important.
Heh.. some of us were around in 1980 and had to wait 3 years to find out the answer to one of the biggest cliff hangers in cinematic history. 3 LONG years to get confirmation on whether Vader was telling Luke the truth or just fucking with his head. And we didn't have any technology or discussion forums to dissect it frame by frame or have any way to come up with any theories. We just had to wait.
prag16
Banned
I guess you can interpret the rain scene as just another one she was never physically present at (like her glimpse of Cloud City, etc), but iirc the rain scene is right before the scene when she is stranded, and the rain scene seems to be implied as Kylo's betrayal. So why show it out of order? Probably reading too much into it.
I'll have to go back and look at the scenes again. Seeing it in IMAX on Friday so I'll try to pay close attention. I interpreted as a scene she was simply spectating. But right, the order has to mean something..
This has its own thread already, but Episode VIII was just pushed from May 2017 to December 15, 2017.
BOOOOOOOOOOooooo
Now I have to tell people that the next movie is 2 years away, not 1.5
LegendofLex
Member
Why?
At the end of the day, none of us have any real idea anyway.
"She can't be Han and Leia's kid, because we'd know it by the end of the film based on their interactions with her. She's definitely Luke's kid!"
Sure, but did Luke have a kid in secret that his sister and her husband (his kid's aunt and uncle) didn't know about? If so, where's your evidence for this, aside from wish fulfillment? All the signs pointing to her inheriting the lightsaber? Wouldn't those be equally valid if she were descended from Anakin on her mother's side instead of her father's? Why do they have to point to Luke being her physical father?
If not, why doesn't the theory have the same holes that the "she's Han and Leia's kid" has, since if they seem apathetic about meeting their daughter they're just as apathetic about meeting their niece?
"Then she's Obi-Wan Kenobi's kid!"
Why? Because she has a British accent, even though all evidence points to Obi-Wan being an isolated hermit on Tatooine anyway, not a father who reared a child apparently in secret and passed on his accent to her? Because she supposedly dresses similarly to him (even though she actually dresses most similarly to TFA Luke)? Because she uses the Jedi mind trick that's apparently well-known as one of the Jedi's (not just Obi-Wan's) signature moves? Because Luke is supposedly going to be celibate now that he's a Jedi, even though as far as we've seen he never interacted with the prohibition against romantic attachment (but Obi-Wan had and then discarded it?)? Because you're convinced she can't be related to the Skywalkers because of the supposedly definitive aforementioned hole that was at the start of this discussion a problem if she's Han and Leia's kid but apparently is no problem for most people if she's Luke's kid?
"Then she's a reincarnation of Anakin!"
Really?
"Then she's not related to anyone in the films!"
That's, of course, always possible, but given that we by design know nothing about characters who haven't yet appeared in the films, there can't possibly be evidence for it.
So should we just stop talking about our pet theories?
EdReedFan20
Member
Whelp: http://variety.com/2016/film/news/star-wars-episode-viii-release-date-1201684136/
Edit- Oh, already covered.
Some people say this section sounds like the Imperial March: https://youtu.be/VBTvyVQMv9A?t=2m33s
Edit- Oh, already covered.
Some people say this section sounds like the Imperial March: https://youtu.be/VBTvyVQMv9A?t=2m33s
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