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[iavi]

No idea. I only remember it because he made a joke about it in Kannagi.

He did Kannagi? That was pretty good. Disappointed to hear that Fractale did him in.

 

[jman2050]

Which is a problem because if the boy is "just a plot device" then it shows how shallow the show really is. If he's just being used as a way to "show" something, he's not a character, he's a flat board.

I find this viewpoint somewhat shortsighted. The boy is not an important character in this story and the story never tried to indicate otherwise. His only role in the story is in his relation to Sayaka. No one would know or even care about how he is outside of that particular relationship because that's not part of the story. This is like complaining that Greedo from Star Wars only exists to explain Han's dangerous circumstances.

]Likewise, if they needed that cardboard cutout to justify bringing Sayaka

Spoiler

into becoming a witch

, then it shows how shallow HER character is and that her only purpose is to

Spoiler

become a plot device herself to drive the exhibition of OMG, meguca is suffering

. If everyone is just a cardboard cutout plot device to

Spoiler

make Homura go Bill Murray

, then that's a tremendous weakness of plot right there.

I'm not really following the logic here. There needs to be justification somewhere to a given character's actions after all.

Having a sophistic perspective on plot like that is dangerous because it focuses too much on the ends rather than the means, but literature and media is about the journey, not JUST the destination.[/b]

So what I'm gathering here is that you think the justification for these actions are weak? Correct me if I'm wrong.

BTW, understand that I don't share this view of Madoka, but labeling entire characters as "plot devices" in SRS BZNSS shows is not a good thing. It is in fact a bad thing, since it exposes incredible weakness in the writing (which definitely isn't Madoka's strong suit).

I feel like we just have different views of narrative. I firmly believe that "characters" are merely tools that are used to present the narrative as a whole. If a particular character/his actions does not "inform" me of what's going on, then I simply don't care. Whether a character is "well-written", "realistic", "three-dimensional", "identifiable" or whatnot is secondary to how they relate to the story that's being told. Or, in the case of comedy, whether they work to provide humor.

The plot of Madoka is just incredibly interesting to me, and I was engaged from day one as to what would happen next, how it would happen, what the ultimate result will be, etc. etc. The thrust/style of the writing is towards having the characters move the story forward in some way, whether by acting in a particular fashion or revealing things about themselves that are relevant to the situation we're presented with (ie Madoka feels useless and unremarkable, Sayaka values justice over pragmatism, Kyoko is the opposite, Kyubey is amoral, etc.) This works as is, and thus, I don't need the characters to be anything more than what they already are. Simple as that.

 

[Crash Station]

Mai-Hime 9

And we're back to the school silliness with a hint of romance. With how the previous episode ended, you would think there wouldn't be such a big mood whiplash. Oh well, I guess they should enjoy it while they can before things go really wrong.

 

[Extollere]

I miss K-on! ..... =(

What should I watch instead of watching K-on! again??

 

[Branduil]

I miss K-on! ..... =(

What should I watch instead of watching K-on! again??

It's hard to recommend without knowing what you've already watched.

 

[Lafiel]

Kannagi was good though. He should have just stuck with awkward nerd humour and harems.

Kannagi had some really AWESOME episodes, but it kind of fell apart at the end when it got all srs business.

 

[Extollere]

I wanna watch something shallow, boring, slow paced, yet impeccably cute - like K-on

I haven't watched anything else... except for the shows that I've already watched.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

That divide is where my issue lies. It wants the viewer to take this goofy ass premise, and look at it with a serious eye. It becomes kind of hard to do that when the focal point is crying every 5 minutes.

I think part of what Madoka is trying to do is to draw attention to how goofy and hopelessly naive the magical girl premise is. Living by idealistic principles may only bring more harm than good in the end. Although the show is predominantly tragedy, and I partly agree that there's one too many scenes of Madoka in tears, I do believe there's more to it than shallow emotional manipulation.

 

[jman2050]

I wanna watch something shallow, boring, slow paced, yet impeccably cute - like K-on

I haven't watched anything else... except for the shows that I've already watched.

I'd recommend Azumanga but that is neither shallow*, boring, nor slow paced.




[*]Okay maybe it is, just work with me here

 

[flawfuls]

Yumekui Merry

And it's over. The ending was kind of eh, but overall I really liked the show. I really wish they stuck with the manga and ended at the glorious fight where Yumeji summons that cat army. I would have really liked to see them animate that part.

 

[Branduil]

I wanna watch something shallow, boring, slow paced, yet impeccably cute - like K-on

I haven't watched anything else... except for the shows that I've already watched.

Well,

Haibane Renmei- though it's actually not shallow
Time of Eve
Kiki's Delivery Service
Whisper of the Heart
Only Yesterday

 

[kiunchbb]

I miss K-on! ..... =(

What should I watch instead of watching K-on! again??

Sora No Woto, people only hate it because they hate K-On.

 

[Mr Nash]

Anyone else get a strong Akihabara@Deep vibe from SKET Dance?

 

[Infinite Justice]

That divide is where my issue lies. It wants the viewer to take this goofy ass premise, and look at it with a serious eye. It becomes kind of hard to do that when the focal point is crying every 5 minutes.

I think part of what Madoka is trying to do is to draw attention to how goofy and hopelessly naive the magical girl premise is. Living by idealistic principles may only bring more harm than good in the end. Although the show is predominantly tragedy, and I partly agree that there's one too many scenes of Madoka in tears, I do believe there's more to it than shallow emotional manipulation.

well they are young impressionable children who realize that their hopes and beliefs are not what they expected after a dose of "reality".

Kinda like saying Santa Claus isn't real to some

 

[Extollere]

Thanks for recommendations - already seen the Miyazaki films :3

 

[JKTrix]

Anyone else get a strong Akihabara@Deep vibe from SKET Dance?

Similar premise, yes. Outcasts who want to make a difference.

 

[Crash Station]

Anyone else get a strong Akihabara@Deep vibe from SKET Dance?

Well Page and Switch are similar for obvious reasons.

 

[DrForester]

I miss K-on! ..... =(

What should I watch instead of watching K-on! again??

Could put yourself up against the most Moe things you'll ever see. I dare you.

Tiny Snow Fairy Sugar
Bottle Fairy
Magical Meow Meow Taruto

 

[Joule]

I miss K-on! ..... =(

What should I watch instead of watching K-on! again??

Hidamari Sketch
Sketchbook ~ Full Colors
Kamichu
Aria the Animation
Tamayura
Taishou Yakyuu Musume
Mahoraba ~ Heartful Days

Relaxing cute (often slice of life) shows. There should be at least one every season.

 

[jman2050]

Could put yourself up against the most Moe things you'll ever see. I dare you.

Tiny Snow Fairy Sugar
Bottle Fairy
Magical Meow Meow Taruto

I'd never wish any of those to even the most ardent of K-On lovers.

 

[Solune]

Mai-Hime 9

And we're back to the school silliness with a hint of romance. With how the previous episode ended, you would think there wouldn't be such a big mood whiplash. Oh well, I guess they should enjoy it while they can before things go really wrong.

Oh you passed episode 8 when shit got real. I think episode 15 is the next big one.

Yumekui Merry

And it's over. The ending was kind of eh, but overall I really liked the show. I really wish they stuck with the manga and ended at the glorious fight where Yumeji summons that cat army. I would have really liked to see them animate that part.

Oh, does the anime even reach this part in the anime, or does it diverge from the manga plot? Worth checking out?

 

[iavi]

I think part of what Madoka is trying to do is to draw attention to how goofy and hopelessly naive the magical girl premise is. Living by idealistic principles may only bring more harm than good in the end. Although the show is predominantly tragedy, and I partly agree that there's one too many scenes of Madoka in tears, I do believe there's more to it than shallow emotional manipulation.

This works. I had begun to pick it up, but have never seen anything magical-girl related before, so the Madoka's attempts at trope deconstruction weren't all that apparent to me.

 

[Crash Station]

Oh you passed episode 8 when shit got real. I think episode 15 is the next big one.

Ugh, seriously? I thought things were gonna get exponentially worse constantly until a BS ending. Oh well, I made it this far, no reason to drop it after the awesomeness of 8.

 

[zeroshiki]

Anyone else get a strong Akihabara@Deep vibe from SKET Dance?

Oh god, seriously? No SKET Dance for me, then.

 

[DrForester]

I'd never wish any of those of even the most ardent of K-On lovers.

Early 2000's moe toughens you up. Can withstand anything.

 

[Crash Station]

Oh god, seriously? No SKET Dance for me, then.

I really don't see many similarities other than some obvious character ones. Really, Sket Dance is more like Gintama in high school as others have said.

 

[flawfuls]

Oh, does the anime even reach this part in the anime, or does it diverge from the manga plot? Worth checking out?

It diverges completely from the manga and yeah I would say the anime is worth checking out. JC Staff did a damn good job with what they did adapt.

 

[jman2050]

I've been meaning to check out Merry when it finished.

Eh, might as well see how it goes.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

This works. I had begun to pick it up, but have never seen anything magical-girl related before, so the Madoka's attempts at trope deconstruction weren't all that apparent to me.

I'm no magical girl expert, but I did watch a lot of Sailor Moon growing up so I'm familiar with the basics. I don't think Madoka is meant for someone who hasn't had at least some prior exposure to the genre.

 

[7Th]

Merry 13 was like a poorly animated, badly directed parody of Casshern Sins. Almost as laughably bad as a not first/final episode of a Shaft show.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

I really don't see many similarities other than some obvious character ones. Really, Sket Dance is more like Gintama in high school as others have said.

If this is true, I really need to watch Gintama.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Space Runaway Ideon 12:
Man, that's a pretty cruel thing to do to someone. Especially between sisters. There has to be some sort of rule about not stripping a diplomatic envoy's top off and humiliating her or something like that. Bes was pretty stupid to just rush in guns blazing against 20 or so guys, too. There were a lot of good moments between Bes and Karala in this episode, though. I think that relationship has been evolving nicely.

 

[Nonoriri]

Thanks for recommendations - already seen the Miyazaki films :3

But Whisper of the Heart and Only Yesterday aren't Miyazaki films :<

 

[flawfuls]

Merry 13 was like a poorly animated, badly directed parody of Casshern Sins. Almost as laughably bad as a not first/final episode of a Shaft show.

Yeah you think they would have put more effort into the last episode.

If this is true, I really need to watch Gintama.

Yes you should. Sket Dance is pretty decent in it's own right, but really it's just a poor man's Gintama. So is Level E for that matter.

 

[Risette]

Yeah you think they would have put more effort into the last episode.


Yes you should. Sket Dance is pretty decent in it's own right, but really it's just a poor man's Gintama. So is Level E for that matter.

But didn't the Level E manga come out before the Gintama manga?

 

[NewFresh]

Can someone help me find a video I saw linked in the last thread? It was a super moe video of a young female character saying something like "gyoo" or "nyaa" over and over again. She is also with an older guy

 

[Crash Station]

Can someone help me find a video I saw linked in the last thread? It was a super moe video of a young female character saying something like "gyoo" or "nyaa" over and over again. She is also with an older guy

Uguu?

 

[flawfuls]

But didn't the Level E manga come out before the Gintama manga?

Yeah I just meant Gintama is the better show/manga.

 

[NewFresh]

Uguu?

YES! Thank you

 

[Hellsing321]

Can someone help me find a video I saw linked in the last thread? It was a super moe video of a young female character saying something like "gyoo" or "nyaa" over and over again. She is also with an older guy

Every Key anime ever.

 

[firehawk12]

UGUU~~~~!

 

[iavi]

Can someone help me find a video I saw linked in the last thread? It was a super moe video of a young female character saying something like "gyoo" or "nyaa" over and over again. She is also with an older guy

Sounds like that vid of Ranka, from Macross frontier, doing the dance over and over and over and over again.

Here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss9q2OZRjag&feature=related

Might not be what you're looking for.

EDIT: nevermind, you found it. Haha so many anime moments fit that description.

 

[hellclerk]

YES! Thank you

That's from Kanon. Considering some brave soul was watching the 2002 version, I'd start with searching Kanon 2002. My heart goes out to you sir.

 

[Geneijin]

Every Key anime ever.

Let's get through a day at least before this begins again please =P

 

[NewFresh]

Sounds like that vid of Ranka, from Macross frontier, doing the dance over and over and over and over again.

Here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss9q2OZRjag&feature=related

Might not be what you're looking for.

No it was this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT2GRpwwS8M

But thanks

Uguu!

 

[dimb]

If this is true, I really need to watch Gintama.

I tried starting with the Season 2 premier and didn't laugh once.

Seems like the kind of thing you should really start up from the beginning.

 

[Mr Nash]

I tried starting with the Season 2 premier and didn't laugh once.

Seems like the kind of thing you should really start up from the beginning.

Don't feel bad. I started watching from Season 1 and didn't laugh once. :/

 

[Hellsing321]

Let's get through a day at least before this begins again please =P

Every time is a good time for Key bashing, but yeah we should save it again for a rainy day.

 

[hellclerk]

I find this viewpoint somewhat shortsighted. The boy is not an important character in this story and the story never tried to indicate otherwise. His only role in the story is in his relation to Sayaka. No one would know or even care about how he is outside of that particular relationship because that's not part of the story. This is like complaining that Greedo from Star Wars only exists to explain Han's dangerous circumstances.

Oh no, I don't subscribe to that viewpoint, I was just describing how that sort of logic works against a positive view of Madoka. The down and dirty version of this is the Red Shirt, and I don't really consider the boy this sort of character either. It's really his INJURY that was a plot device, not really him as a person (though I thought his character was pretty shallow and predictable too).

I feel like we just have different views of narrative. I firmly believe that "characters" are merely tools that are used to present the narrative as a whole. If a particular character/his actions does not "inform" me of what's going on, then I simply don't care. Whether a character is "well-written", "realistic", "three-dimensional", "identifiable" or whatnot is secondary to how they relate to the story that's being told. Or, in the case of comedy, whether they work to provide humor.

Yeah... that'll throw a wrench in the works... That's basically the exact opposite of how I see narrative. The narrative is a retrospective term for a sequence of events that has come to an "end". The narrative would not exist, nor would have any relevance if not for the characters that drive it. How the characters interact with each other and their circumstances is what interests me most. The narrative is a tool for communicating it. Now, the narrative is also very important since it defines how the audience see perceives the characters, the conflict, everything, it's basically a lens into another existence.

But I see characters as their own "persons" in a regard. I'm very aware they aren't physically real, but they are "real" in the metaphorical sense, so the characters that can do the best "I reasonably exist" impression are top in my book. The issue with Madoka's characters (short QB, who at least has his motives straight), is that they're wooden and empty. So you know, the uncanny valley applies to behavior too, and considering the tone and pacing of Madoka, this wasn't an intentional choice. It wasn't lampshaded and parodied through humor, and the pacing is too predictable and writing too stiff to go the subtle subversion route.

Now I'll say it again and again, I don't think Madoka is BAD for this, I just don't think it's particularly special. It's got good action sequences and music, but I'm not going to excuse boring characters and a pretty stupid plot (the entire premise is based on completely false science) for quirky art and pretty voices.

 

[zeroshiki]

jman and doomed1 is the new mac0din and ABF