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Spring Anime 2012 | Welcome Home, Space Cowboy

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N

neoanarch

Member
Rinne is just wasted potential. Maybe because they decided to split the series. But it had a strong cast of characters and they just wasted them on the slice of life stuff. Sora no Woto succeeds where Rinne fails in integrating a SOL with a deep story. Every episode while seeming to be a simple SoL episode was an exploration of the setting and progression of the story. While Rinne feels more disjointed as if your watching two different series.

The male pilots deserve a mention for being neutered so badly. They went from interesting antagonist to comedy relief and instead got replaced with nothing. It still isn't clear who were suppose to be cheering against. If anything I don't understand the need to keep the Vox around. I think everyone would be happy to leave Earth alone if they didn't exist. Even if they didn't they seem to have adequate defenses.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
duckroll said:
Yeah, I think my general point was that KyoAni's success in recent years has created this expectation of the studio being a strong sales brand and having a sort of Midas touch when it comes to adaptations. The reality seems to be pretty different, and considering how Hyouka doesn't appear to be an established and popular franchise on its own, I think the results will be interesting.
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I'm not sure though how popular the LNs are in Japan though. You also have to consider what exactly is a success for KyoAni. If you pump enough money into a project and no matter what your sales are and you still lose a ton of money, that's a bomb. It certainly seems like KyoAni expected FMP to do better considering they gave it two seasons.

One interesting thing to note is the original E7 sales. E7 sold around 7725 it seems which is one of Bones highest shows sales-wise so it should be interesting to see if AO breaks that. It is amusing to see Xam'd at 1.5k but Xam'd had a ton of circumstances around it like filthy gajin getting the anime first. The second season of DtB sold better than the first with the lighter tone so if AO follows that route I wonder if it would break 10k.
 
C

cajunator

Banned
wonzo said:
Strawberry Panic 7

FUCKING FINALLY

face.gif
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OH WOW.

moonspeak said:
well now i know which episode to start on. :>
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I was just thinking this exact same thing :3
After all, that's the only reason to WATCH THIS right? Its not like Yami where everything is a glorious entertaining clusterfuck, its just yuri.
 
D

duckroll

Member
PdotMichael said:
Are you pissed or something?

The sales of Rinne no Lagrange are not really the subject of discussion
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Maybe you should follow a discussion properly before jumping in? It is certainly the original point of discussion. Learn to read.

Jarmel said:
I'm not sure though how popular the LNs are in Japan though. You also have to consider what exactly is a success for KyoAni. If you pump enough money into a project and no matter what your sales are and you still lose a ton of money, that's a bomb. It certainly seems like KyoAni expected FMP to do better considering they gave it two seasons.
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I don't think KyoAni is the one who should be worried here. Kadokawa is the one funding these shows, and they're the ones who are suffering financially of late, with a string of bombs. They need another hit series, and they're hoping KyoAni can deliver here.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
duckroll said:
I don't think KyoAni is the one who should be worried here. Kadokawa is the one funding these shows, and they're the ones who are suffering financially of late, with a string of bombs. They need another hit series, and they're hoping KyoAni can deliver here.
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That said though, KyoAni sales for the most part are off the bloody charts. I'm not exactly sure why Nichijou bombed the way it did but Hyouka might be a return to form. The premise itself doesn't seem to lend itself to blockbuster status.

Also this discussion has crushed my hopes again of a FMP sequel. God damn it.

Anyway what is a reasonable sales number for a profitable series? I'm sure productions like F/Z cost a fortune worthy of Gilgamesh.
 
T

Thoraxes

Member
It's definitely not about the original topic anymore, that's for sure.

But that seems to have dissipated by now. Let's all ask wonzo questions about Strawberry Panic and what it's about, because I honestly have no idea but those pictures interest me for... erm, reasons.
 
Z

zeroshiki

Member
To be fair, the KyoAni "brand" is kinda strong (at least around here) in the sense that it gets people talking and interested just because its a KyoAni show even before any staff gets mentioned. I just looked it up and the show isn't even directed by either Yamada Naoko or Ishihara Tatsuya who are the two more famous KyoAni directors.
 
W

wonzo

Banned
Thoraxes said:
It's definitely not about the original topic anymore, that's for sure.

But that seems to have dissipated by now. Let's all ask wonzo questions about Strawberry Panic and what it's about, because I honestly have no idea but those pictures interest me for... erm, reasons.
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It's about an all girls school full of lesbians, nuff' said! I don't think I can bring myself to watch another episode today after that.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Jarmel said:
That said though, KyoAni sales for the most part are off the bloody charts. I'm not exactly sure why Nichijou bombed the way it did but Hyouka might be a return to form. The premise itself doesn't seem to lend itself to blockbuster status.
Click to expand...

But that was my point, the biggest sellers from KyoAni were established products before they ever touched them. They just did a good job and made them reach the full sales potential. But are there actually any examples of KyoAni successfully taking something that wasn't well known and making it a huge success? I don't think so.

Anyway what is a reasonable sales number for a profitable series? I'm sure productions like F/Z cost a fortune worthy of Gilgamesh.
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The production budget for a single episode of TV anime can range from 150k to 350k USD. On average I think a distributor can expect to make at least 50 dollars from the sale of a single LE volume of anime.

Something like Fate/Zero gets returns of probably 350 dollars or more for each sale of the box, and they sold almost 50k I believe. That's almost 20 million dollars from the home video sales alone. I don't think the first season could have cost more than 5 million dollars to make. So yeah, it's very successful.

zeroshiki said:
To be fair, the KyoAni "brand" is kinda strong (at least around here) in the sense that it gets people talking and interested just because its a KyoAni show even before any staff gets mentioned. I just looked it up and the show isn't even directed by either Yamada Naoko or Ishihara Tatsuya who are the two more famous KyoAni directors.
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Erm... Takemoto is the director of Haruhi, Lucky Star, and both FMP. You fail Staffwhoring 101.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
duckroll said:
But that was my point, the biggest sellers from KyoAni were established products before they ever touched them. They just did a good job and made them reach the full sales potential. But are there actually any examples of KyoAni successfully taking something that wasn't well known and making it a huge success? I don't think so.
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Fair enough. Munto bombed pretty bad on its own but then again it was shit too so that's not a surprise.

duckroll said:
The production budget for a single episode of TV anime can range from 150k to 350k USD. On average I think a distributor can expect to make at least 50 dollars from the sale of a single LE volume of anime.

Something like Fate/Zero gets returns of probably 350 dollars or more for each sale of the box, and they sold almost 50k I believe. That's almost 20 million dollars from the home video sales alone. I don't think the first season could have cost more than 5 million dollars to make. So yeah, it's very successful.
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So the 5k marker seems about breaking even in most circumstances. That's of course not including the merchandise and other stuff.

As for F/Z I could see the budget being over 350k if 350k is on the higher end. It looks absolutely insane for a TV series.

duckroll said:
Erm... Takemoto is the director of Haruhi, Lucky Star, and both FMP. You fail Staffwhoring 101.
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Not bad, I hadn't bothered to look up the staff for Hyouka other than knowing Gatoh is working on the show.
 
Ultimadrago

Ultimadrago

Member
cajunator said:
Ahegao must be stopped.
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You know not of what you speak!

Femmeworth said:
http://i.minus.com/i0Uqedx6Cl3tQ.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

A ahegao Regulus Tera avatar improved by shopped ahegao. I expect nothing less from my nakama!

[quote="Dance In My Blood, post: 37022472"][B]Nyarko-san: Another Crawling Chaos 01+02[/B]
This show is much more entertaining than it has any right to be.[/QUOTE]

[I]You're not alone in these thoughts...[/I]

([I]Enveloooooope![/I])


[quote="wonzo, post: 37023829"][b]Strawberry Panic 7[/b]

[URL="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18780843/anime/strawberry7a.jpg"]FUCKING[URL] [URL="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18780843/anime/strawberry7b.jpg"]FINALLY[URL]

[IMG]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18780843/reaction/face.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]

Direct Yuri anime (that's not hentai)?

[I]Where did you find this? The black market? Pandora's box?[/I]
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D

duckroll

Member
Jarmel said:
So the 5k marker seems about breaking even in most circumstances. That's of course not including the merchandise and other stuff.

As for F/Z I could see the budget being over 350k if 350k is on the higher end. It looks absolutely insane for a TV series.
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One thing to consider is that budget isn't the only thing that determines how good something looks. Money is not distributed proportionally in the industry, and the bulk of what people end up seeing on screen are credited to those who basically get paid the least in the grand scheme of things.

Directors, character designers, writers, and VAs can inflate the budget of something that doesn't even look great into astronomical amounts. Conversely, a well run studio who can provide many of those services internally and with high quality results, can end up with a great looking production at much more reasonable costs.

Gundam SEED Destiny supposedly had a HUGE budget, but where do you think the money went? Samurai 7 was also an extremely expensive series, at 300k per episode. Most of that was probably wasted on the "revolutionary" amount of CG being used for a TV anime. Money is just quantity. If you spend it without getting quality in return, you're still spending it.
 
K

Kagami

Member
Jarmel said:
So the 5k marker seems about breaking even in most circumstances. That's of course not including the merchandise and other stuff.
Click to expand...
Yeah I've always figured people use video sales as a sort of barometer of popularity amongst people buying anything at all, so the tendency to treat 4k or so as successful includes the idea that that means people are buying misc other stuff also, at some kind of ratio with the video sales.

Though with all these light novel shows these days I wonder if any of them bomb in video sales yet hit with teenagers and produce an impressive increase in novel sales.
 
Jex

Jex

Member
So I am still listening to this darn ANN Cast and a few more things have started to bug me.

Firstly, whenever Zac talks about something it causes me some discomfort, namely because of a number of factual he makes (he keeps calling Urusei Yasura [the show and series] 'Lum' for no apparent) and because he has a tendency to make a number of sweeping statements without really backing them up properly.

This leads to a more general problem with the format of this episode - whenever a particularly interesting or complex issue is raised with a show they don't have any time to unpack the idea, even if discussing that issue might be more interesting then simply running through the list. For example, Zac says things like -

"Do You Remember Love is incredibly misogynistic"

"Beautiful Dreamer is really overrated"

"That scene in Wings of Honneamise is really awful and ruins the movie"

"Angel's Egg is really for the art crowd" (which I think has been roundly disproved by it's positive reception in this thread)

All these statements seem like they could be the start of an interesting conversation (well, assuming that Zac isn't involved) but they're all just dropped into the show and no-one contests them because they don't have the time. The Wings of Honneamise comment was especially annoying because there seems to be a general agreement that you can make that claim about the movie without bothering to explain your argument because 'everyone agrees'.
 
D

Dedication Through Light

Member
Hiiro no Kakera 3
tumblr_m2llvylGsO1r1geyyo1_500.jpg


Shinji is a nice addition to the cast, however not as cool as Mahiro or Takuma. I like how she keeps on defaulting back to Takuma, I dont really mind it as it gives him more screentime. The four of them all have hilarious moments and it was nice how they kind of bonded in a away after fending off the enemies in the forest (enjoy the graphics for the barrier). One of my favorites this season.

Mirai Nikki 26 - end

Overall the anime was largely pretty good. Ignoring some annoying cast members, like some of the participants in the game as well as Yuno, characters like Yuki, Kousaka, and especially Akise were rather compelling and cool. Akise was really the highlight with any episodes in which his plot was active being some of the best moments and further he brought in the best moments in the penultimate arc of the series. The final arc of the series was actually the weakest point
in which it seemed like it wanted to drag it out and make this truly a romance with action while making the most unappealing pairing canon. The ending was pretty crummy with only the epilogue of sorts being pretty appealing and worthy of closing the story out. I mean, sure I was glad Yuki won, but sitting for 10K years doing nothing? Really Yuki? Though his design at that point did look cool. If I could alter the anime, I would have had like Akise and Yuki team up to defeat Yuno, an actual defeat of Yuno would have actually made this possibly one of the better anime out there and fixed many of the problems in this final arc

The anime had great OP and ED throughout with excellent OST musical talent and visuals, with Dead End phone being the best visual aspect going and that key cell phone sound. A 7 / 10.
 
S

survivor

Banned
Kagami said:
Yeah I've always figured people use video sales as a sort of barometer of popularity amongst people buying anything at all, so the tendency to treat 4k or so as successful includes the idea that that means people are buying misc other stuff also, at some kind of ratio with the video sales.

Though with all these light novel shows these days I wonder if any of them bomb in video sales yet hit with teenagers and produce an impressive increase in novel sales.
Click to expand...

I don't pay attention to light novel sales but for manga, they usually get a small boost if the anime totally bombs. The only recent manga that I can think of that exploded after the anime was Blue Exorcist, but that had a popular anime.
 
B

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
survivor said:
I don't pay attention to light novel sales but for manga, they usually get a small boost if the anime totally bombs. The only recent manga that I can think of that exploded after the anime was Blue Exorcist, but that had a popular anime.
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Hopefully that's happening to Chihayafuru right now.
 
X

/XX/

Member
duckroll said:
Directors, character designers, writers, and VAs can inflate the budget of something that doesn't even look great into astronomical amounts. Conversely, a well run studio who can provide many of those services internally and with high quality results, can end up with a great looking production at much more reasonable costs.
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Wasn't precisely ufotable an example of that? With their touted focus on in-house production for many of the tasks necessary on that series.
 
Jex

Jex

Member
Hitokage said:
That reminds me.
[...]
Futari wa Precure Max Heart 1-17, 23, 47

Oh. My. GOD. SO. BORING.

This show was the opposite of what I described before. It started out decently enough with an interesting premise. Our heros get a new companion to protect and must find 12 sprites/fairies for her, but there's no actual searching and what they're looking for just shows up on its own at random. It just seems they aren't even trying anymore. Changes to mascot items (BUY NOW) are brushed aside in the show itself. Enemies simply hang out twiddling their thumbs until one of them decides to go out for a smoke. There's no real drive, no real purpose, no real point, and the show even slacks off on episodic stories which makes it entirely insufferable.

I really haven't seen a show be so purely awful in a long time. Shows like Yami fuck up and manage to be interesting in their terrible state and others are bad from being offensive or aggravating, but there's none of that here. It just fails to be entertaining on any level whatsoever, and not even fast-forward made it any better. Anyone who has seen my viewing history knows I'm not the kind to drop shows I start, but I simply couldn't continue. Even when I skipped to the end to see how things end it was tiresome.

This show is horrible.
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Well, as you so aptly pointed out, as long as it sells merchandise it can carry on.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Kagami said:
Yeah I've always figured people use video sales as a sort of barometer of popularity amongst people buying anything at all, so the tendency to treat 4k or so as successful includes the idea that that means people are buying misc other stuff also, at some kind of ratio with the video sales.

Though with all these light novel shows these days I wonder if any of them bomb in video sales yet hit with teenagers and produce an impressive increase in novel sales.
Click to expand...

It's definitely true that for many of the production companies, sales synergy with other products are also the aim. With Aniplex, they want to find new ways of selling more CDs, while also promoting new Sony Music artists. For Kadokawa, they definitely want to use anime as an extra gateway to expanding the popularity of their LN franchises. That way they can sell more radio dramas, videogames, manga, etc.

But when something completely bombs, I think it can sort of backfire, and basically show everyone how unappealing that franchise actually is.
 
C

cajunator

Banned
I wonder if Rinne no Lagrange will try to offset the losses with figurine sales or something. I'm totally down for a Laffinty figure. Although she's the only one besides maybe big boobie girl that would even make a good figure. Madoka really wouldn't.
 
D

duckroll

Member
/XX/ said:
Wasn't precisely ufotable an example of that? With their touted focus on in-house production for many of the tasks necessary on that series.
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While we don't have any hard numbers to compare, I am pretty confident that Fate/Zero is not as expensive a show that the actual end product seems to indicate. No doubt it is probably one of the more expensive shows out there, but they're also getting tons of quality mileage out of every dollar spent.
 
Jex

Jex

Member
frostbyte said:
I don't think you came off as strong but the examples you choose are more than a little inflammatory.


Speaking of coming off as strong, did I sound belligerent when I was expressing my dislike for Tsuritama's colour choice and KoikeLupin's shadowing? Sorry if I came off that way.
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Everyone is being far too polite around here lately. Personally, I blame folks like /XX/.
 
Jex

Jex

Member
firehawk12 said:
They can work. ANNCast works in spite of the hosts, for example. lol
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Well, when they have good guests on, I completely agree. Even then, the host hardly draws the most interesting responses out of his guest. It's kind of scary to consider how good the show could be if it had an interesting, provocative (and not in the 'fishing for controversy' way) host.
 
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