I remember breathing a sigh of relief when I found out that it was Michael Arndt in charge of the script.
Can you even imagine a Star Wars trilogy written by Orci, Kurtzmann, and Lindelof?
JJ is really good at coming up with ideas or getting them off the ground, the problem is he seldom follows them through or has any real conclusion in place. He usually lets other people take care of that stuff as he wanders to other projects.
Oddly enough I kind of wish Lucas had taken that path with Star Wars and the prequels. Bet we would have all been much happier.
So maybe the Enterprise getting beaten to hell this movie means we get a refit for the next one? Preferably one that doesn't butcher Probert's design...
TWoK's score not only isn't the best Trek score out there, it isn't even the best Horner score out there. I'd put Willow, Krull, or Honey I Shrunk the Kids over it.
The problem with the (somewhat) lack of hype on this is because of three things IMO.
1) The trailer shows zero story. Just action. The best trailers usually give SOME story, or the action is so mind-blowing that it makes up for it. That is not the case with any of the trailers we've seen for Into Darkness. While it looks technically capable, we've seen earth blow up in a thousand movies. Those shots aren't enough to get anyone truly excited.
2) I think all the 'mystery box' shit and all the toying with Cumberbatch's identity has worked against the movie. Just like it did with Super 8. This 'lets all get the fanboys talking and riled up' internet marketing strategy rarely seems to work as well as it used to. It's played out and too manipulative. People see through it these days.
3) They waited too long. If this movie had come out in 2011, two years after ST09, I don't think they'd be having this problem right now. But even for how well liked by the masses that film was...it seems strangely forgotten. People have moved on. The reboot feels like a gimmick.
It's just a shame that TWOK and TSFS basically were the crescendo of Horner's work. He's done some good themes and serviceable scores since then, but he just increasingly ripped off himself and other composers.
Goldsmith stuck to the tried and true in the TNG scores but he was always a more varied composer and better from a raw talent standpoint.
TWoK's score not only isn't the best Trek score out there, it isn't even the best Horner score out there. I'd put Willow, Krull, or Honey I Shrunk the Kids over it.
Not sure about the latter two but Willow's definitely in contention too.
Also in terms of Star Trek scores Eidelman's work for Star Trek VI is really underrated. Plus Robyn Miller inadvertently ripped off the main theme for "Riven", so there you go.
I am pumped for the movie and I don't get why this thread is so pessimistic. With what Star Trek fans have suffered through, at this point getting good Star Trek movies seems like a miracle, and I am not going to complain about it.
I think the difference in anticipation levels basically boils down to "Fun."
2009 - a Star Trek movie that looked like the Star Trek TV show but with a huge budget and lots of action seemed all sorts of vibrant and colorful and fun and even optimistic. There was a reason it lodged pretty firmly in the pop-culture consciousness that year, and it was mostly thanks to the idea that Star Trek was FUN again.
This does not seem like a fun movie at all. And even if it did, the title sure as fuck stops that in its tracks.
09 was brightly lit. It popped off the screen. It taught a bunch of fucking mouthbreathers what a lens flare is. It was eye-catching and it moved really quickly.
This looks dark, and grim. People are grimacing and squinting and frowning. Stuff is blowing up and everyone is crying.
It's no wonder that people aren't as excited to go check it out.
But this movie has the two primary trends filmmakers have been overdoing since they worked so well for TDK!
- dark, grim
- villain get caught in middle of film
What can go wrong?
Ultimately I think mystery surrounding Cumberbatch's character eventually caused people to not care all that much as other films like Man of Steel have ramped up their marketing. I understand why JJ wants to keep things under wraps but modern audiences respond differently than the ones from 30 years ago.
It seems like (MAJOR SPOILER)
all the suspicion of who Cumberbatch is playing with the recent confirmations that he is indeed that villain
But this movie has the two primary trends filmmakers have been overdoing since they worked so well for TDK!
- dark, grim
- villain get caught in middle of film
What can go wrong?
Ultimately I think mystery surrounding Cumberbatch's character eventually caused people to not care all that much as other films like Man of Steel have ramped up their marketing. I understand why JJ wants to keep things under wraps but modern audiences respond differently than the ones from 30 years ago.
It seems like (MAJOR SPOILER)
all the suspicion of who Cumberbatch is playing with the recent confirmations that he is indeed that villain
At least for me, I was hoping they were actually going to do something different, instead of milking the old universe. Otherwise what was the point of rebooting everything if you were going to see the same characters, etc.
At least for me, I was hoping they were actually going to do something different, instead of milking the old universe. Otherwise what was the point of rebooting everything if you were going to see the same characters, etc.
Maybe for the first movie. But a lot of the Trek fans still onboard after the first movie were honestly hoping that there would be new (ish) adventures featuring characters/villains that weren't just callbacks/echoes of old episodes and villains.
09 was there to cleanse the palate, and this movie was supposed to show the direction going forward. MANY were hoping that direction would be forward, without constantly throwing glances over the shoulder.
So on the subject of Cumberbatch's character, probable real spoilers here,
I'm annoyed that it's Khan. It's too early and they shortcut to his need for vengeance and I feel like that was a plot better earned on screen. Khan's desire for domination perverted into a desire for revenge seems so much more interesting than it just being vengeance out of the gate.
The whitewashing doesn't help either. I mean really. Would it have been so hard.
Maybe for the first movie. But a lot of the Trek fans still onboard after the first movie were honestly hoping that there would be new (ish) adventures featuring characters/villains that weren't just callbacks/echoes of old episodes and villains.
09 was there to cleanse the palate, and this movie was supposed to show the direction going forward. MANY were hoping that direction would be forward, without constantly throwing glances over the shoulder.
I'm sure. But I doubt anyone was expecting them NEVER to return to the well, and since they largely didn't for 09 (aside from it being a TWoK ripoff), it shouldn't really be surprising that this one did. Honestly, complaining about this is like saying TDK shouldn't have had The Joker. A reboot *should* revisit hallowed ground or you may as well have just set it after DS9.
Yeah, that's definitely going to be a problem on some level, I think.
I guess it really was telegraphed when the news of Benicio Del Toro dropping out broke, but damn - his name is Khan Noonien Singh. There are actors available to match that ethnicity. In the 60s it was a minor miracle to get Montalban to play the character, I understand, but in 2011/2012? I know Cumberbatch is a name, but damn.
I'm sure. But I doubt anyone was expecting them NEVER to return to the well,
Nah, you're right, most definitely. I think people were mostly hoping that there'd be some sort of buffer between rebooting and returning to the well, so it wouldn't seem so opportunistic, I guess. (probably not the right word)
Since JJtrek's Enterprise is already much bigger than the original timelines' Enterprise, how large is that other ship supposed to be? It's like a goddamned Sovereign Class.
Yeah, that's definitely going to be a problem on some level, I think.
I guess it really was telegraphed when the news of Benicio Del Toro dropping out broke, but damn - his name is Khan Noonien Singh. There are actors available to match that ethnicity. In the 60s it was a minor miracle to get Montalban to play the character, I understand, but in 2011/2012? I know Cumberbatch is a name, but damn.
Since JJtrek's Enterprise is already much bigger than the original timelines' Enterprise, how large is that other ship supposed to be? It's like a goddamned Sovereign Class.
I'm mostly curious when and/or how they built the ship. You don't go from super sized Enterpirse being your newest and shiniest toy to that thing in such a short time.
Then again it would kinda explain why Starfleet hands over the Enterprise to a cadet.
I'm sure. But I doubt anyone was expecting them NEVER to return to the well, and since they largely didn't for 09 (aside from it being a TWoK ripoff), it shouldn't really be surprising that this one did. Honestly, complaining about this is like saying TDK shouldn't have had The Joker. A reboot *should* revisit hallowed ground or you may as well have just set it after DS9.
I would suggest that the Joker is a different situation. Comics and superheroes have a tradition of rebooting and reworking its characters and universes. They're the equivalent of Greek and Roman gods, constantly changing with the times and being put into new stories.
It'd be like, does anyone really want to see Daniel Craig's Bond go up against the same scenarios we saw in Connery's films? Is there a demand to see villains like Dr No or Goldfinger redone?
You guys forgets that this movie is just as fun as the last one. Stop nitpicking about small shit like ship sizes. You'll never enjoy the movie if you do that.
Good point about Nemesis and Star Trek having similarly shaped ships but Into Darkness more crucially has a Federation ship! And not the Reliant which my subconscious was expecting. The way that they held the reveal of Cumberland's spaceship to this newest round of ads was fairly genius I think. The earlier trailers seemed so lacking in purpose in comparison, just vague montage, too Earthy. I have some degree of faith that JJ will deliver a fun ride that falls apart at the end, and I look forward to his second Star Trek movie before he makes Star Wars, just for posterity etc.
I hope the big ship makes sense. It seems weird that such a bigger ship than the flagship would be controlled by a crew of 1.
Still a bit annoyed by Kirk getting promoted from cadet to Captain and being given the flagship over the course of a few days. They should've ended it with a promotion to Lt. Com and being given the night duty shift for bridge command. The time skip to this movie could've easily been used to explain a promotion to Captain.
I hope the big ship makes sense. It seems weird that such a bigger ship than the flagship would be controlled by a crew of 1.
Still a bit annoyed by Kirk getting promoted from cadet to Captain and being given the flagship over the course of a few days. They should've ended it with a promotion to Lt. Com and being given the night duty shift for bridge command. The time skip to this movie could've easily been used to explain a promotion to Captain.
That doesn't even make sense. The whole reason to reboot is explicitly TO see the same characters, etc.
I'm sure. But I doubt anyone was expecting them NEVER to return to the well, and since they largely didn't for 09 (aside from it being a TWoK ripoff), it shouldn't really be surprising that this one did. Honestly, complaining about this is like saying TDK shouldn't have had The Joker. A reboot *should* revisit hallowed ground or you may as well have just set it after DS9.
Agree and disagree. I can see where you're coming from, but Star Trek has a bigger playground than, say, comic book universes. Even in a reboot, there's no reason to rely on old ground, especially so soon and if you're not doing anything different or better.
So on the subject of Cumberbatch's character, probable real spoilers here,
I'm annoyed that it's Khan. It's too early and they shortcut to his need for vengeance and I feel like that was a plot better earned on screen. Khan's desire for domination perverted into a desire for revenge seems so much more interesting than it just being vengeance out of the gate.
The whitewashing doesn't help either. I mean really. Would it have been so hard.
I don't want to hijack this thread, so you should probably just stop and accept that you're wrong about this thing you have a bad opinion on. John Carter was the best blockbuster of 2012.
I don't want to hijack this thread, so you should probably just stop and accept that you're wrong about this thing you have a bad opinion on. John Carter was the best blockbuster of 2012.