Support NeoGAF

[Morn]

Yeah, last thing I want is to be playing Star Wars: Deadly Boss Mod :\

Deadly Boss Mods is one of the best addons ever created.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

BLADESTORM COMING SOON

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Debatable. Distracts from playing the game, into playing watch the mod. It does all the work for you, and takes any challenge away from an event. Each to their own though, I never forced anyone to use when I did raids and we always had fun.

 

[Emitan]

I'm assuming gearscore calculated a value based on someone's gear and if your value was too low no one would play with you, right? I hope that kind of min maxing doesn't take over TOR. Some people have lives and can't grind for dozens of hours for uber gear.

 

[rukland]

I'm assuming gearscore calculated a value based on someone's gear and if your value was too low no one would play with you, right? I hope that kind of min maxing doesn't take over TOR. Some people have lives and can't grind for dozens of hours for uber gear.

Yup that is pretty much Gearscore in a nutshell. Really turned me off to WoW.

 

[Yaska]

I'm assuming gearscore calculated a value based on someone's gear and if your value was too low no one would play with you, right? I hope that kind of min maxing doesn't take over TOR. Some people have lives and can't grind for dozens of hours for uber gear.

Wouldn't go as far to say no-one, but yeah you wouldn't get into some groups. Pretty nasty just because you have other things to do in life than min/max your gearscore.

 

[Dinosaur Tamer]

Well, they can easily allow customize UIs/UI addons, while staying away from the more game-changing stuff like Gearscore or possibly boss mods. We do not know what they will do, but it is possible.

 

[Emitan]

Wouldn't go as far to say no-one, but yeah you wouldn't get into some groups. Pretty nasty just because you have other things to do in life than min/max your gearscore.

I didn't literally mean everyone. 11 million people can't all be super hardcore.

 

[Morn]

The gearscore mod doesn't exist in WoW anymore after Blizzard implemented it into the game with Cataclysm.

 

[Iadien]

Debatable. Distracts from playing the game, into playing watch the mod. It does all the work for you, and takes any challenge away from an event. Each to their own though, I never forced anyone to use when I did raids and we always had fun.

This is how I feel. Talk about hand holding.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I didn't literally mean everyone. 11 million people can't all be super hardcore.

End game runners are generally all of the "hardcore" mindset.

The casual folk generally don't get involved in the endgame raids and such.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

I've read that if you get a HQ lightsaber early on (5 upgrade slots), you can pretty much take it to max level. Just need to upgrade the emitter matrix's & all that lightsaber shit.

So instead of an awesome lightsaber drop that people fight over, it would be a crystal or part. The only thing the lightsaber itself will add is aesthetics, quality level, and it's own custom sound effects.

 

[NeededSleep]

Deadly Boss Mods is one of the best addons ever created.

It was but it made playing the game brainless. "Don't pay attention to the Boss animation ques but wait for a big screen popup that says move!"

Just give me the bagnon addon and im fine.

 

[BattleMonkey]

It was but it made playing the game brainless. "Don't pay attention to the Boss animation ques but wait for a big screen popup that says move!"

Just give me the bagnon addon and im fine.

It's true, but the hardcore raiders generally run the same shit over and over again that they just don't care, it becomes not about fun, but a job anyways.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

I've read that if you get a HQ lightsaber early on (5 upgrade slots), you can pretty much take it to max level. Just need to upgrade the emitter matrix's & all that lightsaber shit.

So instead of an awesome lightsaber drop that people fight over, it would be a crystal or part. The only thing the lightsaber itself will add is aesthetics, quality level, and it's own custom sound effects.

Looking forward to the crafting side of the game, thought WoW's crafting was pretty poor and limited.

 

[NeededSleep]

It's true, but the hardcore raiders generally run the same shit over and over again that they just don't care, it becomes not about fun, but a job anyways.

Yeah =/ wtb randomly generated end game dungeon runs.

Im just bitter i raided hardcore and got burnt out, i miss it but not carrying people or the politics.

 

[Iadien]

It's true, but the hardcore raiders generally run the same shit over and over again that they just don't care, it becomes not about fun, but a job anyways.

Once a hardcore raid figures the strat, they know the encounter... Especially if it's on farm.

 

[Marco1]

Just received my GAME CE pre-order code.
But I really wish they released a version without the statue, they always end up looking like cheap pre-school toys that were made from a rubbish mold.

 

[Blackface]

It was but it made playing the game brainless. "Don't pay attention to the Boss animation ques but wait for a big screen popup that says move!"

Just give me the bagnon addon and im fine.

Bosses become so easy in WoW you didn't even really need DBM. They made what they are going to do, so obvious, so predictable, and gave you so much time, you could easily move and be fine.

The only time I ever used DBM in the last couple expansions was on Arthas so it could sync and warn people about the black shit he dropped. And not by choice .

 

[Blackface]

Gearscore is what I'm afraid of with addons. Cosmetic add-ons are great, but when it starts to affect the way game is played (gearscores, "need this addon to join group"), it's not fun.

This was a problem because WoW designed an inherent value into each level of gear. At first this was hidden, but they eventually made it visible. The addon picks up on these values and creates an overall "number". This value existed in WoW because most of their gear is randomly generated while the patch/raid/content is in development. It's then looked over and put out. They do not hand make all the stats on each piece, it's a program that designs it. They just decide how much and what type of cloth/mail/plate will drop and hit "generate".

All SWTOR has to do is not build in a number system for each tier of gear. This would make it difficult for a "gear" score addon to even exist. Someone could create a complex algorithm that looks at the actual stats of every piece of gear of everyone you see, does the math and determines your gear level. However it would probably be the laggiest addon to every exist. I doubt it happens. Maybe a website.

 

[CoilShot]

Wow Gearscore sounds awful. How could people accept a program like that?

Also is bioware showing up at gamescom for more old republic info you guys think?

 

[Door2Dawn]

Wow Gearscore sounds awful. How could people accept a program like that?

epeen

 

[Won]

Wow Gearscore sounds awful. How could people accept a program like that?

WoW is a game that revolves around progression. You hit the level cap at some point, but your character still progresses by obtaining better gear. -> Gearscore.

 

[Morn]

WoW is a game that revolves around progression. You hit the level cap at some point, but your character still progresses by obtaining better gear. -> Gearscore.

If anyone thinks TOR will be any different they're kidding themselves.

 

[MedIC86]

Call me stupid, but i swear i saw footage from PAX were the char was swimming and fighting underwater....i cant find it back tho, so weird...i'm sure it was SW:TOR, same UI and everything

 

[sykoex]

Yeah at the level cap, gear is the new "leveling up", so it makes sense people would want an easy way of tracking it and monitoring others' progress versus their own.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

If anyone thinks TOR will be any different they're kidding themselves.

Most RPG's about progression. People don't want it to end. They want to chase the carrot on the stick in disbelief. No game thus far have truly nailed a good end game, and thus that had it for a while ruined it later with changes that didn't benefit the spirit of the game (UO, SWG, DaoC, Planetside..)

 

[LAUGHTREY]

WoW is a game that revolves around progression. You hit the level cap at some point, but your character still progresses by obtaining better gear. -> Gearscore.

That was always around even before Gearscore. Blizzard went in and put the iLevels on items a long time ago and made it easier for everyone to know how big their e-peen is and basically get a rank like they do in cawadooty. Before gearscore you had to turn on your brain and think of how someone got the gear they had.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Yeah at the level cap, gear is the new "leveling up", so it makes sense people would want an easy way of tracking it and monitoring others' progress versus their own.

Wasn't used like that though, it was basically used to as a way to assemble 'easy mode' groups.

"Must have GS and Achievement" was a common thing seen in General chat. So basically, if you want to group with us you have to have all the kit already, and have already cleared the place.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Most RPG's about progression. People don't want it to end. They want to chase the carrot on the stick in disbelief. No game thus far have truly nailed a good end game, and thus that had it for a while ruined it later with changes that didn't benefit the spirit of the game (UO, SWG, DaoC, Planetside..)

MMO's are not meant to end, and since you pay a fee players don't want to let it end. Games like SWG and UO were dependant on being a community, but had no actual aim or end game.

If the stories in TOR have an actual class ending, then for some that will be endgame, but for many it will just be a constant grind for more and better gear/character power.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

My hope is that end game is a little more opened ended PVP - so there's on going battles and conflicts to take part in. That's what I'd like from a Star Wars game. Hopefully a great community develops, maybe even a bit of in game Story/Role Play developing too. If its just grind this instance please, I'll get bored very quickly.

 

[Lesath]

I'm assuming gearscore calculated a value based on someone's gear and if your value was too low no one would play with you, right? I hope that kind of min maxing doesn't take over TOR. Some people have lives and can't grind for dozens of hours for uber gear.

Gearscore was basically a lazy man's way of inferring somebody's dps/healing/tanking capability (outside of an armory lookup or inspection). I would hesitate to call it min/maxing, because oftentimes items of a lower value were incredibly effective for certain classes.

It also helped that the threshold is usually surpassable by token gear ("welfare epics"), which pretty much required a time investment of, say an hour a day in WotLK (45 min to queue as DPS, 15 min to clear a dungeon).

In terms of effectiveness, it did a really good job in weeding out players with low potential due to their gear. However, it did lead to people sometimes requiring the most ridiculous scores compared to the difficulty of the dungeon.

Personally, I just did quick Armory lookups (which I hope SWTOR will have). A glance at a talent tree can usually tell you if the person knows wtf they're doing.

 

[BattleMonkey]

My hope is that end game is a little more opened ended PVP - so there's on going battles and conflicts to take part in. That's what I'd like from a Star Wars game. Hopefully a great community develops, maybe even a bit of in game Story/Role Play developing too. If its just grind this instance please, I'll get bored very quickly.

Either way it becomes a grind. Warhammer endgame was basically nonstop giant scale pvp and really it becomes a grind fairly quick as well.

The only hope for those not into that kind of endgame will be that they are satisfied with reaching the "end" of their class story line, and perhaps moving onto another character class and story.

 

[Gvaz]

Gearscore is sure lame, though it tends to be okay for pubbies.

However pubbie's requirements are stupid. LFM RAID NEED 6000+ gs! (except everyone with that GS is waaaaaaaaaaaaay above the requirement for that raid, which would be more like 4900gs or something retarded.)

 

[CzarTim]

I've read that if you get a HQ lightsaber early on (5 upgrade slots), you can pretty much take it to max level. Just need to upgrade the emitter matrix's & all that lightsaber shit.
So instead of an awesome lightsaber drop that people fight over, it would be a crystal or part. The only thing the lightsaber itself will add is aesthetics, quality level, and it's own custom sound effects.

I still feel like all gear should work like this. I'm cool with some aesthetic stuff being restricted by class, but if I find a cool set of armor or a sweet looking gun, I should be able to keep it all game. (aka appearance tab.)

 

[Mr. Luchador]

I still feel like all gear should work like this. I'm cool with some aesthetic stuff being restricted by class, but if I find a cool set of armor or a sweet looking gun, I should be able to keep it all game. (aka appearance tab.)

I think its GW2 that's allowing something like this to happen, where you can transpose stats from a one bit of gear to a low level bit of gear if you think it looks cooler, so you can have its appearance, but still keep the better stats. Sounds like an awesome idea.

 

[Snaku]

Applied to both GAF guilds. Dunno which I'll focus on at first, but I'm leaning toward Republic GAF.

 

[Emitan]

Applied to both GAF guilds. Dunno which I'll focus on at first, but I'm leaning toward Republic GAF.

The NA one? Welcome.

 

[Snaku]

Oh wait, you can't be in more than one guild? That's....odd.

 

[Emitan]

Oh wait, you can't be in more than one guild? That's....odd.

Yeah. I think it's because of how the transition into the game works. I doubt you'll only be able to join one when the game is out.

 

[Morn]

I think its GW2 that's allowing something like this to happen, where you can transpose stats from a one bit of gear to a low level bit of gear if you think it looks cooler, so you can have its appearance, but still keep the better stats. Sounds like an awesome idea.

Most MMOs do it. Like in DCUO you can choose the appearance of ANY item you've ever equipped.

Blizzard will never do it because they want complete control over players appearances, and it sounds like BioWare is resistant to it as well from the comments at Comic Con.

 

[kodt]

My hope is that end game is a little more opened ended PVP - so there's on going battles and conflicts to take part in. That's what I'd like from a Star Wars game. Hopefully a great community develops, maybe even a bit of in game Story/Role Play developing too. If its just grind this instance please, I'll get bored very quickly.

Yeah that is the best way to keep a game active.

It would be best if there were several PVP planets that could be completely controlled by one side or the other. Then one side would need to make a large scale assault on a planet in order to take parts of it back.

 

[JohnTuk]

Yeah. I think it's because of how the transition into the game works. I doubt you'll only be able to join one when the game is out.

Yeah, they confirmed that each character will be able to join a guild.

 

[Emitan]

Most MMOs do it. Like in DCUO you can choose the appearance of ANY item you've ever equipped.

Blizzard will never do it because they want complete control over players appearances, and it sounds like BioWare is resistant to it as well from the comments at Comic Con.

Why? Why does it bother them that I look like I have level 30 armor at level 85?

 

[Morn]

Why? Why does it bother them that I look like I have level 30 armor at level 85?

Ego of the art department?

 

[Morn]

My hope is that end game is a little more opened ended PVP - so there's on going battles and conflicts to take part in. That's what I'd like from a Star Wars game. Hopefully a great community develops, maybe even a bit of in game Story/Role Play developing too. If its just grind this instance please, I'll get bored very quickly.

PVP was playable at Comic Con at the BioWare base. They had the Alderaan Warzone playable. It's basically WAR PVP Scenarios, but with a Star Wars skin. Makes sense as the WAR people worked on the PVP. They didn't show or confirm open PVP at all.

 

[bill0527]

Deadly Boss Mods is one of the best addons ever created.

I agree.

Its mandatory for raiding. Which means it should have been in the game in the first place.

Unfortunately it seems that the add-on ship has sailed and there's probably no going back.

But I'm a curmudgeon who thinks that if you need to go outside the game to install a 3rd party program to help you be successful, then there's a fundamental problem with the game itself. Either you've made it too hard for the player to be successful and they need outside assistance, or you've not given the player enough information, or you've got a badly designed UI and they need to go outside the game for assistance.

 

[Morn]

I agree.

Its mandatory for raiding. Which means it should have been in the game in the first place.

Unfortunately it seems that the add-on ship has sailed and there's probably no going back.

But I'm a curmudgeon who thinks that if you need to go outside the game to install a 3rd party program to help you be successful, then there's a fundamental problem with the game itself. Either you've made it too hard for the player to be successful and they need outside assistance, or you've not given the player enough information, or you've got a badly designed UI and they need to go outside the game for assistance.

And it's not just for making the game easier. It's mandatory for raiding specifically for timing when you really have to be dead on with some encounters in Cataclysm or else it's a full wipe.

 

[ToyBroker]

Why? Why does it bother them that I look like I have level 30 armor at level 85?

Because seeing high level armor encourages lower level players to play more, so their character can look cool too.

 

[yo_soy_el_topo]

This may sound dumb but I have a question regarding this game and I don't know a whole lot about mmos.

The only MMO I have ever played was Everquest up to the velious expansion and I have been looking for a new game that kinda has a similar world/ fighting system.

I tried WoW but the lack of interesting classes and instances turned me off 1 week after the game was released. I also found it to be to easy and reminded me of diablo in that I could just go up and attack stuff around my level and win regardless. I never got to raid or anything like that and these are opinions from the first months release of the game, but anyway...

What I mean by this is i'm curious how SWTOR game handles combat/grouping/dungeons and how it would compare to how it was in Everquest?

Things I loved about everquest:
The unique classes, enchanter for crowd control, monk for pulling, wiz for damage, mage pets, clerics heal/revive, Shamans for buff/debuff, etc.
Dungeons/world was completely open, no instances etc.
The social atmosphere of having to ask for help for a teleport, invis, buff, etc.
I also liked how there was an extreme penalty for dying and the intense difficulty of the game in general.


I know i am probably going to be hounded for asking this but there has to be someone out there that feels me and what I'm trying to find out here.