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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT2| GL HF GG

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Haunted

Haunted

Member
Floating those Corruptors over the Stalkers is the worst possible way to engage the Colossi.

Aside from that, if he throws his Roach/Hydra army against the deathball again he has no one to blame but Dustin Browder himself.
 
T

TheThunder

Member
You mean 200/200 Roach doesn't beat Sentries, Blink Stalkers, Colossus and Immortals with +2... oh I would never guessed !!!

Come on Morrow, mix it up for once.
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
TheThunder said:
You mean 200/200 Roach doesn't beat Sentries, Blink Stalkers, Colossus and Immortals with +2... oh I would never guessed !!!

Come on Morrow, mix it up for once.
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yea, he should build units that just straight up die in forcefields, rather than ones that can actually retreat.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
Chinese Electric Batman said:
When are you guys playing in pro tournaments?
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Never? I'm a copper league player. Not sure what that had to do with my observations, though!

Consider this: their mistakes were so basic, even I could spot them.
 
T

twofold

Member
Haunted said:
Never? I'm a copper league player. Not sure what that had to do with my observations, though!

Consider this: their mistakes were so basic, even I could spot them.
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Again - they play so many games that they will have already tried any of the ideas that you come up with. You might sit there with a smug grin on your face thinking 'my awesome infestor build works in Diamond - why aren't the pros using it?!', but the games the pros play is very different to the game we play.

Too many diamond scrubs around criticizing players that are 100 times better than them.

TheThunder said:
wow Zergs can win without roaches...what craziness is this !!
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Coin flip risky builds that rely on the opponent not scouting what you're doing can win you games? Shock horror.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
TheThunder said:
MC is gonna roll another tournament.

Hoping Grubby would win but Kas is really good so I'm not expecting it.
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I believe in Kas.


...even though TvP is considered his weakest matchup. At least most of his recent tournament exits came through TvPs.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
twofold said:
Again - they play so many games that they will have already tried any of the ideas that you come up with. You might sit there with a smug grin on your face thinking 'my awesome infestor build works in Diamond - why aren't the pros using it?!', but the games the pros play is very different to the game we play.

Too many diamond scrubs around criticizing players that are 100 times better than them.
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I'm not sure if I should be offended that you said I have a smug grin or happy that you think I'm a diamond player. :lol

Chinese Electric Batman said:
This tournament is offline right?

It's cool that Kas is doing so well since he can't use his maphacks.
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It is!

And yes, Kas' gamesense is just scary good. If MvP didn't already have the "Game Genie Terran" nickname, Kas would probably next in line for that nick. :p
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
Haunted said:
Yeah, that's basically what NA Masters is like in EU terms.
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its funny because i have never seen an eu gaffer actually beat an na gaffer. you'd think it would have happened once or twice.
 
I

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
What does that prove? That the people from NA are better than the people from EU who come from GAF? Just look at Sheth's records he's like 82% on US and 60% on EU :lol CombatEx was near the top of NA the other day.
 
T

TheThunder

Member
Ikuu said:
What does that prove? That the people from NA are better than the people from EU who come from GAF? Just look at Sheth's records he's like 82% on US and 60% on EU :lol
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The GAF ladder is obviously superior to the b.net ladder.

BELIEVE
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
Ikuu said:
What does that prove? That the people from NA are better than the people from EU who come from GAF? Just look at Sheth's records he's like 82% on US and 60% on EU :lol CombatEx was near the top of NA the other day.
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i ain't saying eu players are bad.
because that wouldn't properly underscore how terrible they are.
 
Q

Q8D3vil

Member
apparently panda is confusing eu ladder with eu gaf players.
didn't idra and all root members says eu ladder is superior to na because there way more good players than NA ?
 
I

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
:lol

Everyone knows that EU has stronger players than NA, look at how many US players qualified for TSL.
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
Q8D3vil said:
apparently panda is confusing eu ladder with eu gaf players.
didn't idra and all root members says eu ladder is superior to na because there way more good players than NA ?
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idra and root say the eu ladder is better because they are well situated in the na ladder.

look at a relatively low ranking pro like destiny who isnt evn grandmasters, he fights the same people over and over and over again. he's played deezer like 15 times in the last two weeks. its enivitable as you climb the ladder that the available player pool will shrink and you will begin to familiarize yourself with the people you play regularly.

introducing yourself to a new environment with new players will of course feel harder since you're giving up that experience.
 
I

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
Kas is just crushing Grubby, still think Grubby will be a top player if he keeps working at it.
 
Q

Q8D3vil

Member
Pandaman said:
idra and root say the eu ladder is better because they are well situated in the na ladder.

look at a relatively low ranking pro like destiny who isnt evn grandmasters, he fights the same people over and over and over again. he's played deezer like 15 times in the last two weeks. its enivitable as you climb the ladder that the available player pool will shrink and you will begin to familiarize yourself with the people you play regularly.

introducing yourself to a new environment with new players will of course feel harder since you're giving up that experience.
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i heard destiny in his stream asking drewbie and catz " how come eu is better"
both catz and drewbie said "there is more good players in EU".
i don't know how this will translate into your mind but EU ladder (in the upper league M and GM) is suppose to be harder than NA.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
No shame in losing against Kas, Grubby had a great series against TLO before this.


Kas is just a beast. Very interested to see whether he'll be able to take some games off MC. Kas is strongest going into the mid-late game. MC wins so many of his games in the early stages of the game, the odds are pretty bad for Kas if MC decides to go for early aggression.
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
Haunted said:
I actually thought we were all just joking around here, does Panda actually think that the NA ladder is as good as EU? :lol

You're just trolling us, right Panda? It's the general consensus of the top pros from both EU and NA.
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you think, your nameless pros think, i draw conclusions from the data available to me.
 
A

Awesome Animals

Member
Pandaman said:
remember folks!
http://i.imgur.com/3bPh4.png[IMG]
tonight at 6pm EST![/QUOTE]WTF!! I thought his was on Sunday?!?! Now I can't play :(


(+44): She's locked herself in the bathroom with a tub of icecream and she's watching my little pony on her phone. We know it cause she sings with them.

Saw this and am posting for Panda and Scogoth. Cheers!!
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Haunted

Haunted

Member
Pandaman said:
you think, your nameless pros think, i draw conclusions from the data available to me.
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Oh, you're such a joker.

If you can't even believe your Zerg idols Idra, Catz and Sheth, who can you trust. That said, I shouldn't even have to name anyone, you're the one arguing against common knowledge/consensus.


TheThunder said:
Man Kas is amazing, even though he doesn't babysit his dropships much.
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Yeah, sometimes it's fire & forget with his multitasking. Not like a MMM drop needs much - stim and go!
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
TheThunder said:
For a guy who can't win a championship, MarineKing sure has a nice pot of money.
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The 2nd place of GSL still pays more than the 1st prize of any western tournament. And he did it twice.

Can't wait until the MLG National Championships and NASL finals, when more foreigners can invade the Top 10. Jinro is #9, White-Ra and Sjow hover just outside.
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
Haunted said:
>_>

I didn't know you thought so little of your Zerg idols Idra, Catz and Sheth that you won't even believe their words :( I shouldn't even have to name anyone, you're the one arguing against common knowledge/consensus.
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all people speaking from personal experience will be prone to bias. Idra and sheth are human, humans removed from their comfort zones will perform worse. that's just how it is. on eu they play different people with different styles and through lag so ofcourse it will seem harder.

but 'seeming harder' is not evidence of a difference of skill and there is certainly no reason to assume that one ladder should have a steeper skill curve than another. without that assumption you could match the ladders at all levels as long as they equally represent segments of the ladders.

basically: if NA GAF>eu GAF, you have to explain why NA GAF is an outlier.

as for CatZ, ive never cared for his opinion. He's not that great and rides on drewbie/kiwi and miniguns success. i have more respect for destiny tbh.
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
SteveWinwood said:
Very small sample size. How many people actually are active in SC2 GAF? Not more than 20 probably right?
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we filled 52 slots in a north american gaf tourney a month ago.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
Pandaman said:
all people speaking from personal experience will be prone to bias. Idra and sheth are human, humans removed from their comfort zones will perform worse. that's just how it is. on eu they play different people with different styles and through lag so ofcourse it will seem harder.

but 'seeming harder' is not evidence of a difference of skill and there is certainly no reason to assume that one ladder should have a steeper skill curve than another. without that assumption you could match the ladders at all levels as long as they equally represent segments of the ladders.

basically: if NA GAF>eu GAF, you have to explain why NA GAF is an outlier.

as for CatZ, ive never cared for his opinion. He's not that great and rides on drewbie/kiwi and miniguns success. i have more respect for destiny tbh.
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Well, I for one will continue to believe the consensus among progamers.

Korean ladder is the toughest/strongest, followed by EU, then NA and the minors (SEA, LA, RU, CN).


I think you SC2 GAF = B.net ladder "data" doesn't work because the sample size is too small as well as unevenly distributed (with GAF being based in the US and thus having more US/NA members).


edit: as a related question, do you also think that the KR ladder is not stronger than EU and NA?
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
I think it's pretty funny that Kas and MC are playing in the TSL at the same time as they're playing against each other in Copenhagen. :lol Definitely going to have a double window open for that.


edit: fuck triple window because I missed the last two games of NASL yesterday night. Oh boy, multitasking SC2 spectating here I come.

edit²: fun facts: Kas is 15-2, MC is 15-1 in the Copenhagen tournament so far. Dominating!
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
Haunted said:
Well, I for one will continue to believe the consensus among progamers.

Korean ladder is the toughest/strongest, followed by EU, then NA and the minors (SEA, LA, RU, CN).


I think you SC2 GAF = B.net ladder "data" doesn't work because the sample size is too small as well as unevenly distributed (with GAF being based in the US and thus having more US/NA members).
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i find it ironic that you'd think my sample is too small whilst appealing to a consensus affirmed by... what, 5 people? all speaking from colored personal experience?

edit: as a related question, do you also think that the KR ladder is not stronger than EU and NA?
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no. or atleast the differences in the skill curve is hidden by the poor resolution of the ladder system [top 2% for masters/segments of 20% for everyone else].

i have seen no reason to believe that a masters on NA and EU wouldn't also be a masters on KR, but i do suspect that at the top levels there may be an appreciable difference that can be accounted for by the different tournament environment fostered by such a small nation with a dense population. the few people i do know who access the korean ladder stay on par with their NA/eu rank.

suffice to say, i do not believe any ladder is on average 20% better than another. the ladder system just doesn't have the resolution required to notice any differences in skill between ladders even if they existed.
 
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