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[Hero of Spielberg]

Did I read the same interview? The guys acknowledge that consumers have a right to complain about things they spent money and says sometimes the things people complain about aren't for the reasons they think they are? Hardly a controversial take.

 

[Josemayuste]

While I think that Starfield might be getting a truckload of hate, I'm also on the thought that they deserve 'some' of that criticism.

While I played Starfield, and I enjoyed it for what it is.. I also think that Bethesda's engine is not up for what the game tried to accomplish in any means, and it shows.. everyone who has played it can see the engine flaws..

I also think that Bethesda should shut their mouths and put some work into those points which are being highly critiziced not only by haters, but for its fanbase too, maybe that way their games would be better and the games would talk by themselves.

This is coming from a person who bought a Xbox for Morrowind, a 360 for Oblivion, and a Xbox Series for Starfield.

 

[Gavon West]

Imagine stanning this hard for a mega corporation.

Imagine being accused of stanning for a mega corporation when in actuality you're just stanning for professional artists over arm chair devs...

Crazy, right??

 

[ByWatterson]

Imagine being accused of stanning for a mega corporation when in actuality you're just stanning for professional artists over arm chair devs...

Crazy, right??

Yeah we're not arm-chair devs. We're consumers. At worst, criticism of the game is an uninformed consumer's take on the product with which they're dissatisfied.

But what difference does it make if they don't know game dev? They don't have to! They just need to know they're upset.

It's the actual devs' job to make a better product. It is NOT the consumer's job to understand why the product provided sucks.

 

[Gavon West]

Yeah we're not arm-chair devs. We're consumers. At worst, criticism of the game is an uninformed consumer's take on the product with which they're dissatisfied.

But what difference does it make if they don't know game dev? They don't have to! They just need to know they're upset.

It's the actual devs' job to make a better product. It is NOT the consumer's job to understand why the product provided sucks.

The game is fine, more than fine, even. It's a huge success for the platform. I know GaF likes to pretend it's not successful or a great game, but thats just par for the course here.

I said before GaF needs to get out of this echo chamber y'all live in here. It's disconnected from reality. At best it's delusional.

 

[sendit]

The game is fine, more than fine, even. It's a huge success for the platform. I know GaF likes to pretend it's not successful or a great game, but thats just par for the course here.

I said before GaF needs to get out of this echo chamber y'all live in here. It's disconnected from reality. At best it's delusional.

I enjoyed Starfield. However, its not just GAF. The reality is, outside of the Xbox eco system. Steam is the next major platform for this game, and it isn't fairing to well there.

 

[JCK75]

I tried playing it today for the first time.. went to that first gun fight and I was like this isn't bad... Then I get into the first space combat and after like 20 minutes straight of fighting one ship... I'm like this is fucking excruciating and I don't think I'll go back.

 

[Arsic]

I thought about this more today and why should the player ever know or care how a game is made ?

Do I need to sit with Miyamoto when he makes super Mario to understand the process so I can garner the fun from it ?

Fuck no.

Shut up and make better games. When you sit in a bubble and take 7 years to put a game out you miss and don't adapt to innovations within the medium. It's why 3-4 year dev cycles need to come back and be standardized.

 

[Flutta]

The game is fine, more than fine, even. It's a huge success for the platform. I know GaF likes to pretend it's not successful or a great game, but thats just par for the course here.

I said before GaF needs to get out of this echo chamber y'all live in here. It's disconnected from reality. At best it's delusional.

 

[Zephyranthes]

Reading this made me think about how the final season episodes of Game of Thrones were immediately followed by a 10-15 minute discussion with the showrunners about why they made it the way they did. Trying to micromanage audience reaction and interpretation of your work is the mark of an insecure director. Let the product speak for itself.

 

[Thirty7ven]

The game is fine, more than fine, even. It's a huge success for the platform. I know GaF likes to pretend it's not successful or a great game, but thats just par for the course here.

I said before GaF needs to get out of this echo chamber y'all live in here. It's disconnected from reality. At best it's delusional.

Are you convincing us or yourself? Because you're going to lose your mind trying to convince people this game isn't mediocre ass ps3 era, load fest, shit writing, terrible quest design, bland as white paper moment to moment gameplay with exploration that only appeals to people who like staring at the wall.

You love the game, congrats. Every game is loved by somebody.

 

[CherryFalls]

The game is fine, more than fine, even. It's a huge success for the platform. I know GaF likes to pretend it's not successful or a great game, but thats just par for the course here.

I said before GaF needs to get out of this echo chamber y'all live in here. It's disconnected from reality. At best it's delusional.

I recommend a tweak to your tag:

''Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads Loading Screens''

 

[Edmund]

I said before GaF needs to get out of this echo chamber y'all live in here. It's disconnected from reality. At best it's delusional.

No. YOU need to get out of your Xbox echo chamber.

 

[Lucie Goosey]

6 pages in and still nobody is reading so there are shit posts like these.
He agrees with you, don't like it all you want, scream it off the rooftops if you don't like it, but that's not what he's talking about; he's literally only talking about speaking with authority about why the twinkie is the way it is, not just disliking it jfc.
You don't like the twinkie? Great, voice that opinion all you want, but you have no idea how it was made, so saying anything extra like you do know is worthless.

Oh give us a break and come down off your high horse.

Many people, more than ever before, are familiar with how a corporate structure works, and with how creative teams work together in developing products - specifically tech and software, and even more so game development.

Many, many game and hardware enthusiasts who aren't directly involved with product development (let alone those who are) have been keenly learning about this industry and similar ones for decades.

Bethesda isn't some black box. We have a very good general understanding of what it would be like to be in their shoes. This tweet indicates this, as nothing said was surprising or new in the slightest.

These guys are arrogant and need a few slices of humble pie. They think of themselves as legends and victims and it's clear they're not even half as talented as a team as Larian, not to mention a dozen others.


This is life. We're humans and we're constantly comparing. It's why we like competitive sports and things like the Olympics. We compare every facet of every industry and this is a point of pride. It's commendable to achieve high degrees of quality and pedigree.

Yes, I'm not a coach of some NFL team or Olympic runner (metaphor), but a mega fan has extensive knowledge.

And in this race, Starfield and Bethesda aren't looking so hot. They're lagging behind the competition, and some of us want them to succeed on their next venture, the highly anticipated Elder Scrolls VI. Probably one of the most anticipated games of all time.

The truth is we all care about them. And some of us aren't as good at expressing that, and sometimes it can come out sounding abusive or controlling, especially over text. And honestly some people should take a few steps back and reflect on how emotionally invested they are in this.

But let's be clear, Bethesda is demonstrating to us real time that they have a difficult time hearing criticism and remaining humble and self reflecting.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Oh give us a break and come down off your high horse.

....what high fucking horse? Are you drunk? I'm literally just quoting what the guy said because nobody is reading and making stupid irrelevant analogies.
Dunno why you bothered typing up a wall of trash trying to discuss something I wasn't, but you do you I guess.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

Not a gamer issue if the game sucks.

I don't think anybody said it was? I was just saying it's an issue that some people expect every game to be a new evolution of past successful ideas from the entirety of gaming, not realizing how much time developers need to spend just reinventing the wheel every time. For instance, bethesda games have never had seamless transitions across the entire world. Only a couple games have even managed seamless space travel, it wasn't a realistic expectation for starfield. People that criticize starfield based on the fact no man's sky did seamless space travel 10 years ago are contributing nothing to the conversation. That is all.

 

[Lucie Goosey]

....what high fucking horse? Are you drunk? I'm literally just quoting what the guy said because nobody is reading and making stupid irrelevant analogies.
Dunno why you bothered typing up a wall of trash trying to discuss something I wasn't, but you do you I guess.

Wall of trash! Hahahaha


Maybe I got it wrong, but it sounded like you said it was worthless to discuss how the game was made because we have no idea about any of that.

But hey, I'm sending some love your way cuz it sounds like you need it

 

[Stooky]

Yes, I'm not a coach of some NFL team or Olympic runner (metaphor), but a mega fan has extensive knowledge.

Just stop....just so wrong on may levels lol. That Dev is correct no mater how many ill informed hot takes you guys make. I haven't played star field. I actually read the article. Its the same reason a lot gaming journalism sucks because they have no clue what it takes to make game what decision are made etc. By all means fanboy it up but don't act like you know have an intimate knowledge of game development.

 

[jufonuk]

 

[Braag]

He's partly right. We don't understand how games are made. However, when you ask $70 from your customers, they expect certain things from your product.
Vast majority of people don't really care how hard game development is, they are nothing more than customers, they pay for your product and expect it to be able to compete with other similar products on the market.

 

[Forth]

What really pisses me off about this guy's tweets is that fact that he knows exactly what he's selling.
That forty five minute direct does everything to avoid showing the many loading screens and lack of POI's. Etc.
He fucking well knows it so stay off twitter, own your product and do better next time.

 

[hinch7]

This is like a stubborn head chef complaining about his customers negative reviews. Telling us how hard it is working in a kitchen and the amount of work goes into it and that we don't get it.

Like no shit, we don't give 2 f's about that. We're the paying customer. Deliver the goods, or don't. Pissing about it online is only makes the company and staff look bad. And Bethesda's name is already being dragged over the coals with Redfall. A game that only released a few months prior to this.

Should've responded that he's seen/listening to criticism or say nothing at all.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

I mean...



bonus

 

[CSJ]

The discussion around how hard it is being a game dev, is it because it's a games forum?
Like.... this isn't exclusive to them but it gets thrown around like an excuse for fucking ever; like stfu we're all in a bad position.

Like, guy, I know your job is hard and so was mine but I don't bitch to my customers about it.
"Oh yeah we're understaffed, they won't hire replacements, they keep adding work, my schedule's shift from day to nights every 2 weeks and it's harming my body, you don't know how hard it is to provide your service."

Also, your entire industry is built around releasing unfinished, buggy and at times, exploitative products at full price with shameful refund policies.
I have never ever had such consecutive and regular other products I buy do this.

Defend it, go on.
Yup, it's not his direct fault it's the higher ups, stop defending yourself for their benefit.

 

[SaucyJack]

Yeah we're not arm-chair devs. We're consumers. At worst, criticism of the game is an uninformed consumer's take on the product with which they're dissatisfied.

But what difference does it make if they don't know game dev? They don't have to! They just need to know they're upset.

It's the actual devs' job to make a better product. It is NOT the consumer's job to understand why the product provided sucks.

So much this.

When I read that Devs are complaining about players being disconnected from how games are made my immediate reaction is to think that those devs are disconnected from how games are played.

We don't really need to understand how games are made, any more than we need to understand how any product we consume is made.

 

[Saber]

The game is fine, more than fine, even. It's a huge success for the platform. I know GaF likes to pretend it's not successful or a great game, but thats just par for the course here.

I said before GaF needs to get out of this echo chamber y'all live in here. It's disconnected from reality. At best it's delusional.

Reading this feels like you're not fine.
Also, I don't think its cool to call off GAF when you're a member of GAF and pretty much part of "bubble"(that means you're disconnected and delusional as well).

Unfortunatelly this logic doesn't work on Steam reviews. Unless they are part of the same bubble and all this is some conspiration.

 

[JackMcGunns]

So much context needed, but damn did he shoot himself in the foot!

Ok, I get what he was trying to say, he's basically defending devs for some of the design desicions, people say some crazy shit, like they don't know what they're doing, or should be fired, or why can't they make something that's not broken, and not to defend him, but some of the things that break the game are part of the broader design, for example Outposts and cargo links, the cargo links run in real time vs the rest of the production which continues when you wait/sleep, and because cargo links run in real time, they can basically break the game if you create too many. It's cool to see the ships fly in and out of outposts and see your shipments come in and fill in real time, but I would trade that visual cue because it can literally cause your game to crawl, your CPU gets bogged down having to calculate all routes and run the game at the same time, I have to literally disconnect the cargo links if I want to play, that's a major design flaw, it can cause a series of bugs, but you have to change the design in order to fix these kind of things and that's just one example, the other is item ID Tags, the game keeps tabs of EVERYTHING you pick up, buy, produce, etc., and every single item has an ID Tag that keeps growing and growing endlessly if you don't step into NG+, so the longer you play without stepping into NG+ and resetting your item generation, the more likely you're going to start getting into problems... again this is a design decision, it's cool that you can drop some items somewhere and come back centuries later and they're still there, but at the same time, not deleting items gets us in trouble.

If you read all this, you probably still play the game lol.

 

[BbMajor7th]

Did I read the same interview? The guys acknowledge that consumers have a right to complain about things they spent money and says sometimes the things people complain about aren't for the reasons they think they are? Hardly a controversial take.

It's not controversial, no, but it's redundant: the game struggles to meet user expectations on many fronts, and it doesn't help to argue that 'users think they understand why it doesn't meet expectations, but they don't'. At that point, you just sound like a bit of dick: "Sure it sucks, but it sucks for very good reasons that you don't understand."

 

[Tarnished]

I'll never understand how they can keep making buggy, average games and get treated like God's of the industry, they're so overrated. I played BG3 before Starfield and that just highlighted how meh Starfield really is.

 

[SaucyJack]

The game is fine, more than fine, even. It's a huge success for the platform. I know GaF likes to pretend it's not successful or a great game, but thats just par for the course here.

I said before GaF needs to get out of this echo chamber y'all live in here. It's disconnected from reality. At best it's delusional.

It's not pretend though, is it?

It's not a great game, which is why there's no lasting enthusiasm for it at all. And it's definitely not been successful by the standards of Bethesda's previous RPGs nor in relation to Xbox's expectations for it.

 

[Thanati]

They're losing respect because the game is just not very good.

It's really that simple.

 

[ByWatterson]

The game is fine, more than fine, even. It's a huge success for the platform. I know GaF likes to pretend it's not successful or a great game, but thats just par for the course here.

I said before GaF needs to get out of this echo chamber y'all live in here. It's disconnected from reality. At best it's delusional.

This reads like Carmella Soprano talking to an FBI agent about Tony. He's a good man!

On the outside with Starfield you're all like:

But on the inside, you're like:

Also this is now an Edie Falco fan thread.