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Steel Diver: Sub Wars |OT| Deep Deep Down

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
If this is similar to a slowed down version of Starfox multiplayer, GAF should help spread the word. Starfox fans would do good to support it, to help show Nintendo there is still demand for this type of game. That would add some credibility to outcries for a new Starfox.
 

tkscz

Member
Whoa, F2P arena-based multiplayer Star Fox. :-O

Heck, just take the multiplayer from Star Fox Assault, make it 4v4 and give it the Sub Wars F2P/premium treatment.

Better yet. Make it a WiiU title so we can have at least 12v12 Star Fox Assault gameplay.
 

Birathen

Member
The feels of 10 knots as you realise you are the only one left on your team, facing off 4 enemy subs. And emerge victorious. This game..

The 180 full reverse-move is incredible. I think I am sitting on a 62 - 20 k/d ratio much thanks to that move. Anyone got any more tricks to share? :)

I hope Nintendo keeps building and adding to this. Some escort/defence missions, like someone mentioned, perhaps more players with some controlling surface ships. Endless possibilities.
 

mihon

Member
Someone needs to test the exact range and damage difference between the 3 torpedo types. At first I thought the damage difference to not be significant, but now that I'm using the King Sardine sub (long range torpedo), stuff is dying very quickly.

And I'm not even counting long range hits. I may be wrong, but 2 long range hits (1.5x damage) from the long range torpedo might 2 hit KO some subs. Also, it's possible to get long range hits with the short torpedo, but it's very difficult.
 

bart64

Banned
Seems so simple but I'm just realizing how little I know about what I'm doing when it comes to strategy. I'm finally getting over my instinct to rush but I still have a rudimentary approach to combat. Offensive, throw a bunch of torpedoes to start, remember to move afterwards, and go crazy when the torpedoes start coming.

It helps tremendously to understand the surroundings, but moving the boat and periscope at the same time is demanding. Maybe it will come with practice, but looking around and steering is not easy and does not leave many resources to planning. I'm curious if standing up and using the motion controls would feel more natural, but haven't worked up the courage to twirl around my living room.

Also, reconsidering the issue of momentum, it's clear now that the subs are more responsive than in the original. You can go from full forward to full reverse in a two seconds versus what seemed like forever before, and surfacing and diving is a also noticeably faster. I think what makes it still feel slow and methodical is the turning, which was pretty much just as slow when it controlled your pitch and not your aim. Also, pitching up and down to fire diagnally is even more painfully difficult.

Makes for more balanced battles, and it's more kinetic and engaging for most I'm sure, but I can't help but imagine an even more realistic game, where one move can take a minute to execute. That way I can finally have some time to look over the maps and think about strategy. I just realized I can dive and surface to easily avoid shots from the flanks, Why did this not come to me sooner?
 

drakkar

Neo Member
That game makes you realize that you can't be a lone wolf. A lot if satisfaction when I get those long range hits.
 

mihon

Member
That game makes you realize that you can't be a lone wolf. A lot if satisfaction when I get those long range hits.

Pretty much. It's kinda sad that most players (the newer ones at least), tend to rush as soon as the game starts and get killed in 1v1 or 2v1s.

When you are alone against more than one enemy, you kinda have to hide and try to surprise them.

Just had a game like that by the way in the Stone Pillars map. It was me vs 3, so I hid in the middle of the map behind some pillars and stayed put to avoid sonar pings. Managed to kill all 3 of them due to the surpise factor (and some long range shots).
 

Neiteio

Member
Pretty much. It's kinda sad that most players (the newer ones at least), tend to rush as soon as the game starts and get killed in 1v1 or 2v1s.

When you are alone against more than one enemy, you kinda have to hide and try to surprise them.

Just had a game like that by the way in the Stone Pillars map. It was me vs 3, so I hid in the middle of the map behind some pillars and stayed put to avoid sonar pings. Managed to kill all 3 of them due to the surpise factor (and some long range shots).
I like sinking all the way to the bottom in the Underwater Ruins map, and nestling against one of the many walls. It's like Swiss cheese down there. Stay still to stay off sonar, mask yourself as the enemies pass overhead, then wait for them to be some distance away before you take long-distance potshots at them. Torpedoes are a LOT stronger when you hit from a distance -- sometimes you can sink a guy in a couple of hits. Put enough distance between you and them and it'll take them a while to wheel around in their confusion and figure out where you are. :)
 

NeoRausch

Member
nice, I got a new crew member!
now I can use the sonar, while standing still, without being seen. also my sonar radius increased, thanks to that guy.
 

Platy

Member
Game is awesome, free and gives at least 15 (5+10) coins on club nintendo


And morse chat room is hilarious xD
 

mihon

Member
nice, I got a new crew member!
now I can use the sonar, while standing still, without being seen. also my sonar radius increased, thanks to that guy.

You sure about that? AFAIK, the sonar guy just increases the range. When using the sonar, you will be detected even if standing still.
 

NeoRausch

Member
You sure about that? AFAIK, the sonar guy just increases the range. When using the sonar, you will be detected even if standing still.

hmmmm.... that's what the German description says. but it would not be the first time a translation went wrong. or he's just talking about the standard thing (not being seen while standing still).
A bigger sonar radius is welcome anyway.
 

Hale-XF11

Member
Game is awesome, free and gives at least 15 (5+10) coins on club nintendo

Thanks for the reminder! I gotta get on that.

nice, I got a new crew member!
now I can use the sonar, while standing still, without being seen. also my sonar radius increased, thanks to that guy.

That one and the masker crew member make up my entire crew. Love those guys.
 

Neiteio

Member
My Blue Shark currently has a crew member that increases turning speed (at no expense) and a crew member who increases health (at no expense). I have access to the crew member who shows allies on the map, which allows you to figure out where enemies are by process of elimination (enemies will start in squares separate from allies), but I prefer the mechanical advantages of durability and quick maneuverability.
 

Hale-XF11

Member
Just had a game like that by the way in the Stone Pillars map. It was me vs 3, so I hid in the middle of the map behind some pillars and stayed put to avoid sonar pings. Managed to kill all 3 of them due to the surpise factor (and some long range shots).

That is awesome.

I love that map so much and not just because the textures are so pretty. I tend to mask my sub when I'm being attacked, then I'll circle around one of the larger pillars, hide on the other side of it opposite of my enemy until I can get myself re-positioned to attack. Since I have the masker crew member, this gives me plenty of time to basically disappear out of sight and once I'm ready to attack, my enemies don't see where I'm coming from.
 

mihon

Member
One thing I don't like about the crew system is that the crew members you acquire via the online mode have no drawbacks. All crew acquired from single player reduce one of the stats, but the multiplayer ones not. And worse, getting the multiplayer crew is way easier. The single player crew should give +2 to one state to compensate or something.

Unless I'm missing something really obvious.
 

mihon

Member
That is awesome.

I love that map so much and not just because the textures are so pretty. I tend to mask my sub when I'm being attacked, then I'll circle around one of the larger pillars, hide on the other side of it opposite of my enemy until I can get myself re-positioned to attack. Since I have the masker crew member, this gives me plenty of time to basically disappear out of sight and once I'm ready to attack, my enemies don't see where I'm coming from.

Yeah, it was the best match I had in the game yet.

One thing I noticed is that very few people utilize the unique features of each map. There tons of hiding places in some maps, but most people just drive straight to each other.
 

NeoRausch

Member
One thing I don't like about the crew system is that the crew members you acquire via the online mode have no drawbacks. All crew acquired from single player reduce one of the stats, but the multiplayer ones not. And worse, getting the multiplayer crew is way easier. The single player crew should give +2 to one state to compensate or something.

Unless I'm missing something really obvious.

Kinda right, but multiplayer crew gives you bonus skills while single player crew increase/decrease you sub stats.
so you can customize your sub even if it's not perfect for you.
 

Neiteio

Member
Kinda right, but multiplayer crew gives you bonus skills while single player crew increase/decrease you sub stats.
so you can customize your sub even if it's not perfect for you.
Mihon is referring to how some of the multiplayer crew give stat bonuses without reducing any stats. For example, I found one crew member in multiplayer who gives me +1 Health. No deductions.
 

Gsnap

Member
One thing I don't like about the crew system is that the crew members you acquire via the online mode have no drawbacks. All crew acquired from single player reduce one of the stats, but the multiplayer ones not. And worse, getting the multiplayer crew is way easier. The single player crew should give +2 to one state to compensate or something.

Unless I'm missing something really obvious.

I'd agree with this. I think if a crew member is going to reduce one stat it should give +2 to another stat. Or do something else unique.

There's no reason to use the +/- crew members if you have the + only crew members.
 

Neiteio

Member
I'd agree with this. I think if a crew member is going to reduce one stat it should give +2 to another stat. Or do something else unique.

There's no reason to use the +/- crew members if you have the + only crew members.
Perhaps the reasoning was that people will find the single-player crew faster, so they will make them more balanced? Or perhaps to make it more rewarding to get multiplayer crew, since it sometimes takes a team effort to get them (if one teammate gets it, the whole team gets it).
 

mihon

Member
Perhaps the reasoning was that people will find the single-player crew faster, so they will make them more balanced? Or perhaps to make it more rewarding to get multiplayer crew, since it sometimes takes a team effort to get them (if one teammate gets it, the whole team gets it).

I thought of that too, but I'm pretty sure most people will find the multiplayer crew faster. I already got all of them, but I'm missing most of the single player ones. It doesnt help that they appear randomly and sometimes you get a duplicate :/.

There's one reason though for using the other crew: if you want to increase a stat by +2, +3 or +4 (!), you gotta use the ones from single player. Still, they should be improved.
 

Neiteio

Member
There's one reason though for using the other crew: if you want to increase a stat by +2, +3 or +4 (!), you gotta use the ones from single player. Still, they should be improved.
Actually, that's probably the reason -- you can do +1 Health at no penalty, for example, by using a multiplayer crew member... but if you want to continue stacking your Health stat, you'll have to start pulling points from other stats by using the single-player crew.
 

Gsnap

Member
Perhaps the reasoning was that people will find the single-player crew faster, so they will make them more balanced? Or perhaps to make it more rewarding to get multiplayer crew, since it sometimes takes a team effort to get them (if one teammate gets it, the whole team gets it).

hmm... Well it is true that the multiplayer ones are more of a reward since you actually have to fight the other team for them. And getting the crew member might actually cost you the match. Whereas the single player crew members are essentially free in comparison.

That said, I'd still rather the crew members be balanced all around so that the choices between them were more compelling. Rather than one clearly being better than the other if you do happen to have both.

Actually, that's probably the reason -- you can do +1 Health at no penalty, for example, by using a multiplayer crew member... but if you want to continue stacking your Health stat, you'll have to start pulling points from other stats by using the single-player crew.

Oh didn't think of that.. That's a good point.

Though at the same time, the very use of that extra crew member to get a +2 in one stat keeps you from using another crew member to bump up a different stat.

But still, considering all that, it is interesting how the game is saying "if you want to specialize in one thing, there's a cost"

This game keeps getting more interesting....
 

mihon

Member
Actually, that's probably the reason -- you can do +1 Health at no penalty, for example, by using a multiplayer crew member... but if you want to continue stacking your Health stat, you'll have to start pulling points from other stats by using the single-player crew.

That certainly makes sense and it could be the reason for the actual system. I think the question is... whats more useful: stacking one stat or improving multiple ones a bit? I really don't know.

I wonder if in the future one stat will be considered the best for stacking purposes.
 

Gsnap

Member
That certainly makes sense and it could be the reason for the actual system. I think the question is... whats more useful: stacking one stat or improving multiple ones a bit? I really don't know.

I wonder if in the future one stat will be considered the best for stacking purposes.

Probably depends on the sub's default stats.

If one sub has an 8 in turning speed and a 4 in health, I would gladly make that turning speed a 7 in order to make that health a 6.

But then there's all the other stats to consider as well. And the number of crew members allowed per ship.

So much stuff! What a great little (big) game.
 

Neiteio

Member
Probably depends on the sub's default stats.

If one sub has an 8 in turning speed and a 4 in health, I would gladly make that turning speed a 7 in order to make that health a 6.

But then there's all the other stats to consider as well. And the number of crew members allowed per ship.

So much stuff! What a great little (big) game.
I don't claim to have this level of skill yet, but a particularly skillful player could minimize their health stat and pump up their turning ability and speed, and simply rely on artful maneuvering to steer past enemy torpedoes while turning in time to nail 100% of their shots. So yeah, depends on the player, really. In the right hands, a "top-heavy" sub could still excel.
 

Gsnap

Member
I don't claim to have this level of skill yet, but a particularly skillful player could minimize their health stat and pump up their turning ability and speed, and simply rely on artful maneuvering to steer past enemy torpedoes while turning in time to nail 100% of their shots. So yeah, depends on the player, really. In the right hands, a "top-heavy" sub could still excel.

Oh definitely. I just love how no sub can be perfect. I'm using Sea Bream right now and I made both its surfaced speed and its submerged speed an 8. So it's equally as fast above and below the water. But it's dive/surface speed is only 3, which is horrible. Looking at the crew members, it would be possible for me to make that dive/surface speed a 4 without costing another stat. And a 5 if I do lower another stat. The stats that would be lowered are either health, submerged speed, or surfaced speed. Obviously I won't choose to lower the speeds, because that defeats the purpose of bumping them up to begin with. So I would have to take the hit to health. That would bring the health down to 3, which is currently at 5 (due to the health +1 crew member).

So many choices. Nothing inherently better than the other.

I love this game.
 
Makes for more balanced battles, and it's more kinetic and engaging for most I'm sure, but I can't help but imagine an even more realistic game, where one move can take a minute to execute. That way I can finally have some time to look over the maps and think about strategy. I just realized I can dive and surface to easily avoid shots from the flanks, Why did this not come to me sooner?

If this game were realistic, then no one in fully submerged submarine would have managed to sink another person in a fully submerged submarine by now.
 
Finally getting some of the smaller maps like Fish Tank and Underwater Base, so unused to both teams meeting in a cluster in the middle in less than a minute. Just got to love the people who charge in, put on masker, and assume they're invincible in a flurry of torpedoes going off around them.
 

Neiteio

Member
Ah, the only time one fully submerged sub has taken down another. Sounds like it was incredibly quick -- an instantaneous implosion. Still a horrifying situation. :-\

Reading about real-life military engagements makes me a bit uneasy. I'll stick with Nintendo's spin on things, which plays fast and loose with any sort of internal logic (hence the maps set in Japanese hot springs, fish tanks and swimming pools)!
 
Can one of you single-player nuts indicate to me specifically where I can get both of the +1 health crew members from single player? (The game tells me mission numbers, but can you indicate to me which levels and maybe even relative areas in each mission and level) (Also tell me where to get any others +1 health crew members, if you know of them.) I have the multiplayer one, but I want to see if I can get a +12 rating on my eventual Super Cod, at the expense of speed!
 

Neiteio

Member
Can one of you single-player nuts indicate to me specifically where I can get both of the +1 health crew members from single player? (As well as any others, if you know of them.) I have the multiplayer one, but I want to see if I can get a +12 rating on my eventual Super Cod, at the expense of speed!
Single-player crew members are random as well, aren't they?

Interesting build idea for the Super Cod, by the way.
 

Jucksalbe

Banned
Just tried the game for the first time. Played an online match, my team lost, but at least I was the last to be killed. Still, I had a lot of fun, I actually quite like how slow it is.
 

Neiteio

Member
I love to overspecialize in durability!

And, they can't be all that random, seeing as they have "Last known location" indicators specifying missions.
Oh, good point about the "last seen" hint. I'm not sure how to read that, actually -- they list two locations for each character, it seems.
 
Jesus Christ!
the later single player campaigns are redonculus!
I need to go for lvl. 41 before I'll do these....

For all the hype that the Level 41 sub gets, it seems like people forget that its reload time is eight seconds long. There are subs that can fire two torpedoes in less than the time that it takes to reload, if not 3 or even 4 with the aid of crew members!
 

Neiteio

Member
For all the hype that the Level 41 sub gets, it seems like people forget that its reload time is eight seconds long. There are subs that can fire two torpedoes in the time that it takes to reload, if not 3 or even 4 with the aid of crew members!
By the same token, though, the super-subs carry five crew members. You could have a crew member or two to reduce reload times.
 

AmyS

Member
Maybe my favorite "horizontal" shmup ever... Still amazing in motion and lots of fun.

Yeah, In The Hunt is among my personal top 10 favorite shmups, of any kind.

I got to play the real coin-op machine several times back in late 1993 - '94, had the NA PSX and Saturn ports during the mid-late 90s still often play it in Mame to this day.
 

NeoRausch

Member
What's crazy about them? :-O

just fought the FIRST giant battleship. it was throwing torpedos all around me, so I've got up... it was throwing mines at mine every second.... so I've submerged.
and guess what!
it can fucking spawn really good enemy subs all the time!

I died in two minutes.... on stage one.

For all the hype that the Level 41 sub gets, it seems like people forget that its reload time is eight seconds long. There are subs that can fire two torpedoes in less than the time that it takes to reload, if not 3 or even 4 with the aid of crew members!

yeah I know. i but I also meant my allover knowledge, skills and crewmembers till that point.
doing this level so early really doesn't work!

edit:
you can also counterweight that time for reloading with some good crew members.

edit 2:
argh, what neit said.
 

mihon

Member
Can one of you single-player nuts indicate to me specifically where I can get both of the +1 health crew members from single player? (The game tells me mission numbers, but can you indicate to me which levels and maybe even relative areas in each mission and level) (Also tell me where to get any others +1 health crew members, if you know of them.) I have the multiplayer one, but I want to see if I can get a +12 rating on my eventual Super Cod, at the expense of speed!

I did some tests and I think I know how the whole crew thing works in Single Player.

First, most crew members can possibly appear in 2 levels. Their appearence is totally random and it's not related to the mission level. Either a crew member appears or nobody appears. There are actually 3 crew members from single player that increase health: Brute A, B and C.

Brute A can be found in level 1 (area where the last ring is) or 2 (starting area). It's easier to find him in level 2. The fastest way to find him is to load level 2 and immediately activate the sonar. If a purple dot appears, go get the guy. It might be Brute A or not. If no purple dot appears, press start and restar the level. Do this until purple dot appears. After you get the crew member, you need to complete the mission.

Brute B can be found in mission 3 (radar base area) or 5 (starting area). Again, its easier to do in mission 5. Repeat the same process you did for Brute A.

Brute C can be found only in mission 7. Do the same process you did for the other Brutes.

Remember, it's totally random which crew member will appear and if it will appear at all. Be prepared to farm a lot :).
 

Neiteio

Member
I did some tests and I think I know how the whole crew thing works in Single Player.

First, most crew members can possibly appear in 2 levels. Their appearence is totally random and it's not related to the mission level. Either a crew member appears or nobody appears. There are actually 3 crew members from single player that increase health: Brute A, B and C.

Brute A can be found in level 1 (area where the last ring is) or 2 (starting area). It's easier to find him in level 2. The fastest way to find him is to load level 2 and immediately activate the sonar. If a purple dot appears, go get the guy. It might be Brute A or not. If no purple dot appears, press start and restar the level. Do this until purple dot appears. After you get the crew member, you need to complete the mission.

Brute B can be found in mission 3 (radar base area) or 5 (starting area). Again, its easier to do in mission 5. Repeat the same process you did for Brute A.

Brute C can be found only in mission 7. Do the same process you did for the other Brutes.

Remember, it's totally random which crew member will appear and if it will appear at all. Be prepared to farm a lot :).
Awesome tips!

Now if only my Blue Shark could carry more than two crew members, lol
 
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