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Stock-Age: Stocks, Options and Dividends oh my!

teh_pwn said:
When do you intend to cash out this investment? Within 1 year? Consider selling if you really, really need it. More than 2 years? Hold. More than 5 years? Increase the investment rate and you'll make tons of money over 5-10 years. I'm about to triple my 401k investment rate if this continues for a couple of weeks.

Buy low, sell high. Selling now is selling low. It solidifies losses.

P/E ratios are low right now, approaching very low. This is panic more than anything.

Oh I am not cashing out for at least 40 years. This is my retirements 401k stuff. I haven't bought any stock on the side yet.

I should have 4000 by end of this week. Should I consider investing in something?

I am contributing 10% to my 401k at this point with plans to buy company stock via EPP program. (ie I get 15% off September 1st price)
 
teh_pwn said:
Buy low, sell high. Selling now is selling low. It solidifies losses.

Stocks don't have a magic price point for which you have to sell at. Too many traders (big and small) make the mistake of waiting for the stock to rebound to a particular price point and not realizing that the fundamentals have changed.
 

Ether_Snake

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The_Inquisitor said:
Oh I am not cashing out for at least 40 years. This is my retirements 401k stuff. I haven't bought any stock on the side yet.

I should have 4000 by end of this week. Should I consider investing in something?

There is no problem if you invest really long term. You can't win all the time, especially not over 40 years.

I never moved anything with my 401k as a result of market movements since I started investing in 2006, and I won't now. I will cut back on investing more until I have confirmation that governments go FDR on the economy's ass.
 
Ether_Snake said:
I regret not putting more than 7000k in gold a few weeks ago:p

But whatever the case, what I am most worried about right now is my company's stock. It has been falling in freefall even before this shit began, and now it just keeps on going. We're at our lowest since 2003/2004:| I'm not too worried about my job specifically, but I hope this doesn't lead to buy-out, or worst.


How diverse is your portfolio?!
 

Ether_Snake

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spiderman123 said:
How diverse is your portfolio?!

I have nothing invested in the company I work for. I was just saying that it's not the stocks of what I own that I'm worried about, it's the share value of the company I work for.

My portfolio is: MON, XOM, PBR, SWY, ERTS, STP, GLD, CAE. My 401k is solely invested in the Canadian market, a mix of small caps and large caps. I have around 30% in cash.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
The_Inquisitor said:
Oh I am not cashing out for at least 40 years. This is my retirements 401k stuff. I haven't bought any stock on the side yet.

I should have 4000 by end of this week. Should I consider investing in something?

I am contributing 10% to my 401k at this point with plans to buy company stock via EPP program. (ie I get 15% off September 1st price)

What kind of funds are you putting it into? I prefer index and ETFs. 4-6 different types, keep them the same allocation %. Since you're starting out you don't need to rebalance. Contributions will do this for you over the next year.

I wouldn't change your strategy because of the market's panic sell. It's pretty much across the board in all sectors and all markets.

These kinds of panic sells are why I prefer IRAs, though I do both IRA and 401k. Unfortunately I've already maxed my IRA this year, but my IRA performs way better than my 401k because of strategic investments over 2008-2010. I put a ton of money in small cap indexes before they went wild.
 
Ether_Snake said:
There is no problem if you invest really long term. You can't win all the time, especially not over 40 years.

I never moved anything with my 401k as a result of market movements since I started investing in 2006, and I won't now. I will cut back on investing more until I have confirmation that governments go FDR on the economy's ass.

Should I stay 100% aggressive right now, or put my next contribution (friday) into income, and see how the markets shore up next week?

What kind of funds are you putting it into? I prefer index and ETFs. 4-6 different types, keep them the same allocation %. Since you're starting out you don't need to rebalance. Contributions will do this for you over the next year.

I wouldn't change your strategy because of the market's panic sell. It's pretty much across the board in all sectors and all markets

I work for Texas Instruments. I am in what's called the fidelity growth fund. Thinks it's high risk stuff.

My old 401k from my intern program (where i have majority of $) is 50% vanguard and 50% hartford cap.
 

Ether_Snake

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The_Inquisitor said:
Should I stay 100% aggressive right now, or put my next contribution (friday) into income, and see how the markets shore up next week?

That's too short term to me to say. I would never be aggressive though. You invest what you can afford to lose. I have been investing since 2006/2007 and rarely sell. I started selling recently because I am putting money aside for an eventual house purchase and didn't trust the economy.

And never listen to your dad. All of the people I ever knew who invested based on their dad's advices always lost money. ALWAYS, lol.
 

Biff

Member
China is reporting bad sector numbers. Australia's CBA slashed its fixed home loan rates by 60 points.

It's officially global. Going to start transferring cash from my savings into my trading accounts.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
The_Inquisitor said:
I work for Texas Instruments. I am in what's called the fidelity growth fund. Thinks it's high risk stuff.

My old 401k from my intern program (where i have majority of $) is 50% vanguard and 50% hartford cap.

http://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/composition/316200104

It's an okay fund as part of a portfolio. But by itself it's expense ratio is a bit high, and it's heavy on IT and healthcare and it's mostly USA. I would get a small cap value USA fund, mid cap blend, Euro, and emerging markets.
 

venne

Member
claviertekky said:
Stocks are going down in Asia.

Prepare for another horrific day tomorrow in the US.

We can only hope!

I love it when market fears bring down blue chips. Best time to buy the market stalwarts.
 
Ether_Snake said:
That's too short term to me to say. I would never be aggressive though. You invest what you can afford to lose. I have been investing since 2006/2007 and rarely sell. I started selling recently because I am putting money aside for an eventual house purchase and didn't trust the economy.

And never listen to your dad. All of the people I ever knew who invested based on their dad's advices always lost money. ALWAYS, lol.


Haha painful lesson learned trust me. Growth made most sense to me since I am not planning on having a family for a few years.

What would you suggest for say a 5 year approach?

It's an okay fund as part of a portfolio. But by itself it's expense ratio is a bit high, and it's heavy on IT and healthcare and it's mostly USA. I would get a small cap value USA fund, mid cap blend, Euro, and emerging markets.

Okay. I am a really big noob at this, so I am not sure what funds would qualify as those. Perhaps I need to buy a book or something? Do you know what funds cover these and what allocations I should look into for say 5 years?

Now that I am full time it's time for me to get serious about my investments. This is me starting out.
 
Ether_Snake said:
I have nothing invested in the company I work for. I was just saying that it's not the stocks of what I own that I'm worried about, it's the share value of the company I work for.

My portfolio is: MON, XOM, PBR, SWY, ERTS, STP, GLD, CAE. My 401k is solely invested in the Canadian market, a mix of small caps and large caps. I have around 30% in cash.

SWY is the diamond one. I was in that but I sold it becasue returns were terrible for me. I took the funds and bought UNX which merged recently.
 
I think it's time I pour some effort into understanding how the market works. Any books or resources you guys recommend besides what to start out with my current funds?
 

RevoDS

Junior Member
Ether_Snake said:
And never listen to your dad. All of the people I ever knew who invested based on their dad's advices always lost money. ALWAYS, lol.
Well, my dad did tell me to cash out three weeks ago while I was up 14%, which in hindsight seems like it was good advice considering I'm standing at -2% at the moment. I didn't listen to him though because he's more of a trader, buying range-bound shares low and selling them when they're higher whereas my lower investment capital makes buy-and-hold a better strategy for me.

We just have completely different investing styles. My dad doesn't even bother checking the fundamentals for companies he buys (even the simple P/E ratio is useless to him apparently), yet he actually does really well. He was down 0.6% today, which is quite the accomplishment.

i have no clue about stocks, give me something to throw money at. You guys think apple stock will drop to 300 ish?

No chance, unless the broader market keeps falling well below current levels (think Dow 9,000 or under). There was a brief run at 312 two months ago, but that was before last quarter's 125% earnings growth...AAPL is already pretty cheap at 350, so if you want to buy it, it's a fairly safe bet at these levels. Apple is a good, growing company with a pristine balance sheet, and it's trading at levels that imply little to no growth potential. Don't try to time your purchase, just buy and you'll make a nice profit either way.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
The_Inquisitor said:
Haha painful lesson learned trust me. Growth made most sense to me since I am not planning on having a family for a few years.

What would you suggest for say a 5 year approach?

Wait a sec. Risk generally translates to higher long term return with large funds. We're not talking about putting all of your money into one stock. You're most likely going to many considerable money on any of these stock based funds over 40 years, but you can improve return by diversifying and investing on an annual basis most into your worst performing funds with the idea that long term they'll perform about the same. It's a blind form on investment that doesn't require maintenance but it's solid.

For individual stocks I would take Buffett's approach if I had time, which basically means buying companies you understand and reading their financial data.
 
teh_pwn said:
Wait a sec. Risk generally translates to higher long term return with large funds. We're not talking about putting all of your money into one stock. You're most likely going to many considerable money on any of these stock based funds over 40 years, but you can improve return by diversifying and investing on an annual basis most into your worst performing funds with the idea that long term they'll perform about the same. It's a blind form on investment that doesn't require maintenance but it's solid.

For individual stocks I would take Buffett's approach if I had time, which basically means buying companies you understand and reading their financial data.

I actually read about him in this StrengthQuest book I had to read for work. Basically doesn't he only invest in companies he can see a clear 40 year vision with? This is why he didn't invest much in Microsoft and other internet-esque companies.
 
The_Inquisitor said:
I think it's time I pour some effort into understanding how the market works. Any books or resources you guys recommend besides what to start out with my current funds?


If I were you. I would start understand excel. Extremely useful tool beyond have a portfolio manager such Questrade or TD Ami.

Secondly, start with investopedia. Understading things such as P/E ratio, Market Beta, Outstanding Shares, Working Capital, Historical Pricing, RoR etc. These things are useful in understanding the market.

Finally ANY and I mean ANY software or book that says they can predict the market is B.S. You can't, period. You could only speculate and base it on expectations by reading company reports as well as reading newspapers. Recommended is New York Times, WSJ, Bloomberg, Market Watch etc...
 

Ether_Snake

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spiderman123 said:
SWY is the diamond one. I was in that but I sold it becasue returns were terrible for me. I took the funds and bought UNX which merged recently.

I have been up and down on it. I was up 15%, now down 12%, and it goes back and forth. No big deal, I'll hold it for some time still.

RevoDS said:
Well, my dad did tell me to cash out three weeks ago while I was up 14%, which in hindsight seems like it was good advice considering I'm standing at -2% at the moment. I didn't listen to him though because he's more of a trader, buying range-bound shares low and selling them when they're higher whereas my lower investment capital makes buy-and-hold a better strategy for me.

We just have completely different investing styles. My dad doesn't even bother checking the fundamentals for companies he buys (even the simple P/E ratio is useless to him apparently), yet he actually does really well. He was down 0.6% today, which is quite the accomplishment.

Yeah well most dads are wrong, at least all the ones I know of. My dad would just always tell me not to invest in anything, except 50% in gold and everything else in 0% interest. The lower interest the better he says lol. He's a pessimist.
 
spiderman123 said:
If I were you. I would start understand excel. Extremely useful tool beyond have a portfolio manager such Questrade or TD Ami.

Secondly, start with investopedia. Understading things such as P/E ratio, Market Beta, Outstanding Shares, Working Capital, Historical Pricing, RoR etc. These things are useful in understanding the market.

Finally ANY and I mean ANY software or book that says they can predict the market is B.S. You can't, period. You could only speculate and base it on expectations by reading company reports as well as reading newspapers. Recommended is New York Times, WSJ, Bloomberg, Market Watch etc...

Oh I know about the software bullshit. Trust me. Checking out investopedia. Should I just read the tutorial?
 

Rubenov

Member
This whole market hoopla has me wanting to take a more active role in investing. The problem is I don't know how it works. I knew it was necessary, so I've been giving money to a bank for a while to invest it. This is what I have so far:

- ~42,000 in Mutual Funds (pre-last week)

- ~30,000 in savings

- ~7,000 in the government's Thrift Savings Plan (kind of a 401k)

- Not a home owner

- Age is 29

I tried reading the OP but I can't come up with a strategy based off of it. I don't want to read through this thread's 177 pages. What should I do? My plan is to buy a house cash when I'm around 50, as well as have some money left over to live comfortably.
 
The_Inquisitor said:
Oh I know about the software bullshit. Trust me. Checking out investopedia. Should I just read the tutorial?

I don't know much about investopedia tbh. Most of what I learned is through university but I know for a fact that is that it is an excellent beginners reference. If it has a tutorial then begin with that....


I STRONGLY recommend having excel to manage your portfolio.

Here is a beginners reference : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlGtH_28af0
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."

Ether_Snake

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Rubenov said:
This whole market hoopla has me wanting to take a more active role in investing. The problem is I don't know how it works. I knew it was necessary, so I've been giving money to a bank for a while to invest it. This is what I have so far:

- ~42,000 in Mutual Funds (pre-last week)

- ~30,000 in savings

- ~7,000 in the government's Thrift Savings Plan (kind of a 401k)

- Not a home owner

- Age is 29

I tried reading the OP but I can't come up with a strategy based off of it. I don't want to read through this thread's 177 pages. What should I do? My plan is to buy a house cash when I'm around 50, as well as have some money left over to live comfortably.

A house cash when you are 50 might cost a lot more than today:p Your objective should be much closer. Buying a house in 5 years, if you keep on saving as you have, should be possible (of course it depends on various factors). Give yourself a closer objective IMO, not at 50. Mortgage rates and house prices will either remain low or fall where they haven't yet anyway.
 
Ether_Snake said:
That's too short term to me to say. I would never be aggressive though. You invest what you can afford to lose. I have been investing since 2006/2007 and rarely sell. I started selling recently because I am putting money aside for an eventual house purchase and didn't trust the economy.

And never listen to your dad. All of the people I ever knew who invested based on their dad's advices always lost money. ALWAYS, lol.

Same here. Every time there is a market dip, his response is always "SELL!". Even when the Dow was at 6K in 2009, he was still saying sell.
 

Rubenov

Member
Ether_Snake said:
A house cash when you are 50 might cost a lot more than today:p Your objective should be much closer. Buying a house in 5 years, if you keep on saving as you have, should be possible (of course it depends on various factors). Give yourself a closer objective IMO, not at 50. Mortgage rates and house prices will either remain low or fall where they haven't yet anyway.

Okay, but how about investing?? What should I do to make my money work better? Gold? Apple? Read a lot about companies and choose a couple to invest on? Again I can do this but I could use some guidance before I venture off.
 
Ether_Snake said:
A house cash when you are 50 might cost a lot more than today:p Your objective should be much closer. Buying a house in 5 years, if you keep on saving as you have, should be possible (of course it depends on various factors). Give yourself a closer objective IMO, not at 50. Mortgage rates and house prices will either remain low or fall where they haven't yet anyway.

I've always thought that ppl should educate themselves on calculating present value and future value. Particularly present value.
 
SlipperySlope said:
Same here. Every time there is a market dip, his response is always "SELL!". Even when the Dow was at 6K in 2009, he was still saying sell.

What ppl don't understand is that your stock is always there regardless if it goes up or down ( unless they pull an Enron or go bankrupt). I kept a stock that I had for a mine in Brazil and it went down by approx 79c give or take for a year. Stuck with it and went up to $3.50 ( down at the moment).
 

Ether_Snake

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Rubenov said:
Okay, but how about investing?? What should I do to make my money work better? Gold? Apple? Read a lot about companies and choose a couple to invest on? Again I can do this but I could use some guidance before I venture off.

I'm not gonna tell you what to invest in.

Learn, play the investopedia game, etc. I made a lot of stupid purchases early on when I started investing, and I still learn. You can't be a winner day one, and I can't tell you how to invest. It depends on too many factors.
 

Slavik81

Member
spiderman123 said:
What ppl don't understand is that your stock is always there regardless if it goes up or down ( unless they pull an Enron or go bankrupt). I kept a stock that I had for a mine in Brazil and it went down by approx 79c give or take for a year. Stuck with it and went up to $3.50 ( down at the moment).
No matter how low it is, it can always go lower. And they don't always recover, either.
You won't always break even by sticking with it.

When the long-term looks good, ride out the bumps. But if they look permanently screwed you'll be wishing you bailed out when you only lost 10% rather than when you lost 90%.

Don't panic-sell, sure, but there certainly is a time and a place for admitting you were wrong and cutting your losses.
 
Slavik81 said:
No matter how low it is, it can always go lower. And they don't always recover, either.
You won't always break even by sticking with it.

When the long-term looks good, ride out the bumps. But if they look permanently screwed you'll be wishing you bailed out when you only lost 10% rather than when you lost 90%.

Don't panic-sell, sure, but there certainly is a time and a place for admitting you were wrong and cutting your losses.

I agree but I was basing that example on what his uncle said ( seeing as how he panicked). To add further to the example the reason I stuck with them also was not only based on their shareholder reports but what surrounding companies within the other lots were experiencing. I believe the reason it fell was b/c of a mining license or something along those lines.
 

unomas

Banned
Ether_Snake said:
That's too short term to me to say. I would never be aggressive though. You invest what you can afford to lose. I have been investing since 2006/2007 and rarely sell. I started selling recently because I am putting money aside for an eventual house purchase and didn't trust the economy.

And never listen to your dad. All of the people I ever knew who invested based on their dad's advices always lost money. ALWAYS, lol.

Gold at $1753 and climbing like crazy, maybe Peter Schiff was right ;)
 

Ether_Snake

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China has excess capacity since this capacity was built (and is still being built, in delay) based on a demand that corresponds to the illusory levels of consumption of the past 20 years. The levels of consumption we have seen were inflated due to massive unregulated access to credit, so obviously anything built in relation to those high levels of consumption are inflated as well. China' economy as a whole is therefore inflated.

What this should lead to after the economies that fueled it deflate is major deflation, not inflation, since it means excess capacity and excess inventory due to falling demand.

People might have seen China as safe recently, because like a handful of other countries it rode the recession without too many hurdles. But you have to understand how this was possible. Most countries that managed to do this did so because China did not deflate. That means Canada, Australia, and others were kept afloat mainly thanks to China and a few other countries in similar circumstances. And why was China and a handful of others continue to exercise strong demand for raw materials? Because of stock market inflation by the US Federal Reserve.

So it's easy to see how this will play out:

1- US, an inflated economy supported by excessive credit, falls.
2- Feds intervene to support the stock market.
3- This allows China and a handful of others to continue to exercise strong demand since it brings confidence back to investors.
4- This keeps natural resources-strong countries like Canada, Australia, etc., afloat.
5- All of the above gives the impression that the Chinese economy is riding out the recession.

That's where we were until now, and maybe for a very short while still.

But since #2 is pretty much almost out of options, the markets can't stay inflated, and this means we'll see a lot of money flow out of China. Investments in China fall, hence its demand for natural resources fall too. Canada, Australia, etc., enter their own recessions, finally. Deflation hits China massively.

This is IMO 100% certain to happen, unless something drastic occurs, like really drastic.
 
This seems crazy to me that there really isn't much signs of financial stress going by Libor or the TED spread but it seems like the market is pushing the banks into freezing like it's Lehman by panic selling stocks and feeding the beast. I'm not saying S&P started this but you really have to wonder what they were thinking as far as timing goes...I think I saw a quote over the weekend from someone working there saying they expect minimal market impact. I mean if that they're that clueless about the consequences of their own actions then how can anyone trust their ratings.
 

Ether_Snake

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I don't believe it has much to do with it. The fact is it's obvious that the governments have no idea what they are doing, that their solutions are not working, and that the economy is not improving.

People are realizing this, and it leads to a collapse and panic.

I guarantee you, the world economy will turn around when the debt of countries is no longer an issue. That means New Deals will start again, here and there, and the economy repair itself anew like it did decades ago.

That's the only cure for the world. Debt is an illusory shackle on the world economy, and so is the venom-economic theories of the capitalist-extremists. Erase the stupid debt, spend on infrastructure, energize anything that favors a worker's ability to work where he feels he can work best, and invest massively in developing cheap accessible energy. Problem solved. It's all quite easy to do too. There is nothing easier than building and improving stuff. Economic hocus pocus on the other hand are shots in the dark.
 
My predictions:

Oil down to $60

Gold will be a SPECTACULAR bubble. One of the bubbliest yet. It'll be glorious. We'll all be covered in it.


My question:

How will this affect housing? Will investors see it as a safe haven? There are millions of forclosed homes going for dirt right now.


Also, Im transfering cash to my trading account. I bought at the absolute bottom of 2008. Ill do this again!
 
I had 60,000+ in my 401K. Havent checked it in weeks-- I shudder to think how much money I lost today.

I've been contributing the max amount for the 3 years I was able to start my 403B plan-- I'm seriously thinking about cutting back 50%... the stock market game is seriously depressing.
 

Ether_Snake

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jamesinclair said:
My predictions:

Oil down to $60

Gold will be a SPECTACULAR bubble. One of the bubbliest yet. It'll be glorious. We'll all be covered in it.


My question:

How will this affect housing? Will investors see it as a safe haven? There are millions of forclosed homes going for dirt right now.


Also, Im transfering cash to my trading account. I bought at the absolute bottom of 2008. Ill do this again!

What makes you think this is the bottom?
 
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