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Stock-Age: Stocks, Options and Dividends oh my!

CFMOORE!

Member
Ouch, I hope no one owned Fossil. On the plus side it seems to knocking down VFC, which I've been waiting for a pullback on for what seems like a year. Still a ways to go but 5% is a good start.

holy shit, why was Fossil ever worth that much to begin with?!


So at my new job I am filling out and registering for benefits. I am terrible when it comes to 401K type of stuff so I was wondering what would be my best bet to go with for investing? at my last company I contributed 10% which I am fine with giving again, but it is the type of funds to invest in where I draw blanks. any advice from you financial sages?
 

Anno

Member
Bought another small traunch of GLUU at $3.90. Decent gain by days end! Still hyped about this company, even if I think their games are pretty meh. Small, speculative position.
 

CFMOORE!

Member
my portfolio is taking a beating after some nice swing trading gains. I have $11.6k invested but my portfolio is now worth $9.6k.

Overall I don't feel too bad since i am a rookie and things could be far far worse. I haven't decided to jump out of any of my positions though. I am hoping to continue to hold and see if long term pays out.
 

Ovid

Member
Cashed out of my winners over the last few weeks. Most of these positions have been held for a couple years. Figured it was time to take some profits. I'm about 70% cash right now.

Most of my current positions are with my losers.
 

Anno

Member
I'm in the same position. Took some profits in order to pay off my car and the remainder of my student debt. Now debt free and ready to start pushing some more money back into the market as we begin our search for a house.
 

NYR

Member
my portfolio is taking a beating after some nice swing trading gains. I have $11.6k invested but my portfolio is now worth $9.6k.

Overall I don't feel too bad since i am a rookie and things could be far far worse.
$2000 vs investing lessons that will impact the rest of your life

I would take that trade off any day, you'll only learn more and make gains as a result...
 

greyshark

Member
holy shit, why was Fossil ever worth that much to begin with?!


So at my new job I am filling out and registering for benefits. I am terrible when it comes to 401K type of stuff so I was wondering what would be my best bet to go with for investing? at my last company I contributed 10% which I am fine with giving again, but it is the type of funds to invest in where I draw blanks. any advice from you financial sages?

I'm no sage, but I've used index funds since I've been working and it's served me well.
 

CFMOORE!

Member
I'm no sage, but I've used index funds since I've been working and it's served me well.

What exactly is an index fund in relation to what I am about to say in the next sentence? i was taking a look at what is on offer with my 401k and i was sort of thinking about 50% in large cap growth fund, 15% international 10% emerging market fund and then 30% money market to ensure partial stability.

i have about $50k last time i checked from my last company's 401k which i need to look into rolling over, but how insane am i when taking a look at the diversification i mention above?


$2000 vs investing lessons that will impact the rest of your life

I would take that trade off any day, you'll only learn more and make gains as a result...

hopefully! i definitely have fun with this and don't stress too much over losses, but there is still some emotion involved. i need to get past that.
 

Piecake

Member
i was taking a look at what is on offer with my 401k and i was sort of thinking about 50% in large cap growth fund, 15% international 10% emerging market fund and then 30% money market to ensure partial stability.

i have about $50k last time i checked from my last company's 401k which i need to look into rolling over, but how insane am i when taking a look at the diversification i mention above?

The best thing you can do with 401k funds is to invest in the lowest possible expense ratio. My company offers vanguard's SP 500 which has a .06% expense ratio and is pretty damn diversified. All the other shit funds are in the .7-1.2% range

I get my other diversification though my roth and regular taxable accounts since i can simply invest in far superior etfs

Now, if your company doesnt have a cheap diversified passively managed fund available, then youre kinda screwed. The international and emerging market sounds expense ratio expensive. I would not do that in a 401k and simply invest in a cheap etf if you want to get that sort of coverage.

30% in the money market is a waste. Put it all in stocks. You only need stability when youre like 60. You need growth now

personally, (this is excluding my 401k) I invest 80% of all my money into VTI, and VEU. Makes investing mighty simple and takes out a lot of the worry and stress. Sure, you wont hit it big, but you wont get fuckd over the barrel either. The other 20% i use to just buy individual stocks and fuck around with. Im a sucker for those huge divdends REITS
 

CFMOORE!

Member
The best thing you can do with 401k funds is to invest in the lowest possible expense ratio. My company offers vanguard's SP 500 which has a .06% expense ratio and is pretty damn diversified. All the other shit funds are in the .7-1.2% range

I get my other diversification though my roth and regular taxable accounts since i can simply invest in far superior etfs

Now, if your company doesnt have a cheap diversified passively managed fund available, then youre kinda screwed. The international and emerging market sounds expense ratio expensive. I would not do that in a 401k and simply invest in a cheap etf if you want to get that sort of coverage.

30% in the money market is a waste. Put it all in stocks. You only need stability when youre like 60. You need growth now

personally, (this is excluding my 401k) I invest 80% of all my money into VTI, and VEU. Makes investing mighty simple and takes out a lot of the worry and stress. Sure, you wont hit it big, but you wont get fuckd over the barrel either. The other 20% i use to just buy individual stocks and fuck around with. Im a sucker for those huge divdends REITS


what is the best expense ratio range? looking around my company 401k stuff, i see a lot in the .50 and up range. also, what if a fund is 50% passively managed and 50% actively? it seems like we have a lot that are 50/50 splits.


edit: we also have a ton of "target date" funds, but i take it i don't want these. our core funds are what i am having trouble deciding between. we have a mid cap stock fund with an expense ratio of .03% but ironically has Fossil, Inc as one of its stocks. Hmm, and our Large Cap fund is .02.
 

Piecake

Member
what is the best expense ratio range? looking around my company 401k stuff, i see a lot in the .50 and up range. also, what if a fund is 50% passively managed and 50% actively? it seems like we have a lot that are 50/50 splits.

Well, just look at index funds and etf index funds. Most of them are like .1-.2%. The cheapest can get down to like .05%

I guess if its a 50/50 split, then 50% of the fund follows an index while the rest is actively traded. Id imagine the expense ratio would be cheaper. If you want specific help, youre going to need to post on here what your plan offers

Id go for the most diversified and cheapest fund or two in a 401k. i wouldnt bother with trying to diversify completely in a 401k because you'll probably just be investing in shitty funds at that point

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/cpf_trans/ssl/financial_model/expense_cal1.asp?prof=

that should give you an idea why i think expense ratios matter so much. 1% difference in expense ratio is HUGE over 30 years
 

Piecake

Member
^ looking for a way to post what we offer without giving you my login stuff ;)

let me see. and i SUPER appreciate the advice!!

here is a screencap:

http://imgur.com/0YvWr

Hmm, well, i really cant tell the expense ratio from that, and the whether its actively or passively managed. Cause if all of those funds were passively managed index funds, they would be pretty good, and should have a low expense ratio, especially the SP 500 (like .06-.15%)

But yea, those are all good indexes that they follow. Itll all come down to how they are manged, the expense ratio, and how much you want/need to diversify in this 401k.

If the last column is the expense ratio (cant see how sicne that is absurdly low) id dump it all into the SP 500 and mid cap fund
 

CFMOORE!

Member
Hmm, well, i really cant tell the expense ratio from that, and the whether its actively or passively managed. Cause if all of those funds were passively managed index funds, they would be pretty good, and should have a low expense ratio, especially the SP 500 (like .06-.15%)

But yea, those are all good indexes that they follow. Itll all come down to how they are manged, the expense ratio, and how much you want/need to diversify in this 401k.

If the last column is the expense ratio (cant see how sicne that is absurdly low) id dump it all into the SP 500 and mid cap fund

expense ratio is the far right column. though it says "gross expense ratio" not sure if that makes a difference.

and the SP500 and Mid Cap are 100% passive.
 

Piecake

Member
expense ratio is the far right column. though it says "gross expense ratio" not sure if that makes a difference.

and the SP500 and Mid Cap are 100% passive.

dump all of your money into those two funds if you can afford to diversify outside of your 401k (taxable and roth). You can find cheaper etfs for the international and emerging markets, but that sp 500 and mid cap is INSANELY cheap. Defintiely do that
 

CFMOORE!

Member
dump all of your money into those two funds if you can afford to diversify outside of your 401k (taxable and roth). You can find cheaper etfs for the international and emerging markets, but that sp 500 and mid cap is INSANELY cheap. Defintiely do that

should i do a 50/50 split between the two? also, this IS my 401k, so when you say to diversify outside of my 401k, are you telling me to ALSO invest in those in a separate account?
 

Piecake

Member
should i do a 50/50 split between the two? also, this IS my 401k, so when you say to diversify outside of my 401k, are you telling me to ALSO invest in those in a separate account?

its up to you really. Personally, id invest more into the SP 500 (maybe like 70/30), but it depends on how you want to play it. I just feel like investing more into the sp 500 is a bit safer, even if that is not actually true.

As for the diversify remark, im saying invest in etfs like this in either your taxable account or roth ira account (definitely have a roth ira set up as well if you dont already).

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundId=0991&FundIntExt=INT

you are globally diversified(emerging markets included) with an very cheap expense ratio and can buy/sell it any time you want. You dont have to wait to the end of the day like mutual funds.

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundId=0986&FundIntExt=INT

The REIT index is also much cheaper in ETF form than your 401k.

With that SP 500 and mid cap stock, you pretty much got the US stock market covered, so i dont think you really need to bother tryiing to diversify that. Just focus on international etfs, and sector specific ones (if you want)

If you really want to invest in small caps

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundId=0969&FundIntExt=INT

that is cheaper than the one your 401k offers as well.
 

CFMOORE!

Member
^ thanks for all the info and advice! stuff like this is all very daunting to think about.

one more question regarding my old 401k, what is the best thing to do with it? i've been out of my old company for over a year now. i am sure your response depends on what my options with it are, but what would your recommendation be depending on the best case options i may have?
 

Anno

Member
Anyone gonna buy the inevitable JPM dip that will be incoming? I kinda hope it takes WFC with it so I can add some.
 

Zyzyxxz

Member
Anyone gonna buy the inevitable JPM dip that will be incoming? I kinda hope it takes WFC with it so I can add some.

Already has taken a sharp dive but still nowhere near what it was in November of last year. I'm going to watch it closely.
 

Anno

Member
With today's JP Morgan Chase news, how long until its safe to buy this stock?

The loss itself isn't too concerning to me. The scrutiny it will, and already has begun to, draw is more concerning. Until there's some kind of word from the SEC that there are no shady accounting practices or potentially further mark-to-market losses I'm going to sit this one out. The banks really have no earnings power with this kind of yield curve if this side of their business begins to get crammed down.
 

Piecake

Member
The loss itself isn't too concerning to me. The scrutiny it will, and already has begun to, draw is more concerning. Until there's some kind of word from the SEC that there are no shady accounting practices or potentially further mark-to-market losses I'm going to sit this one out. The banks really have no earnings power with this kind of yield curve if this side of their business begins to get crammed down.

so you think Diamond was truthful when he said his company lost 2 billion? From what ive read, a number of people seem to think JPMorgan lost a lot more than that
 

Anno

Member
so you think Diamond was truthful when he said his company lost 2 billion? From what ive read, a number of people seem to think JPMorgan lost a lot more than that

I think that's probably close to what it is as of today. It seems weird to hold some emergency conference call about just that, though. $2 billion is a lot of money, but it isn't that material for JP Morgan. I think it could get be substantially worse given the volatility of such hedges. That said, I do think that Dimon is probably the best CEO in the industry and for now I'll continue to err on his side. Doesn't mean I'll be buying any JPM any time soon, though. I imagine some brave people will, though, and it most likely will pay off in the end.
 

UltimaKilo

Gold Member
I think that's probably close to what it is as of today. It seems weird to hold some emergency conference call about just that, though. $2 billion is a lot of money, but it isn't that material for JP Morgan. I think it could get be substantially worse given the volatility of such hedges. That said, I do think that Dimon is probably the best CEO in the industry and for now I'll continue to err on his side. Doesn't mean I'll be buying any JPM any time soon, though. I imagine some brave people will, though, and it most likely will pay off in the end.

I'm going to give it a few days to see what happens in terms of an investigation, but I think I'll bite and buy. It's a risk I have to take.
 
Question from a total n00b... is it a decent (not good, just decent) idea to play with stocks with $500? Or will the transaction costs/commissions eat away all my gains? Should I save more money to play in the stock market?

Also, the original post is 5 years old. Are there any decent newer books on stocks that specifically focus on the stock market post-2008 crash?
 
^I would open a Roth IRA and start investing in a targeted mutual fund or something. SWERX is a good one, for example.

I think it's always a good idea to start building a bit of a portfolio of safe and stable investments before you start gambling.
 

Piecake

Member
Already do that through my retirement plan from work. Should I open a IRA in addition to that?

I would. I think the Roth is much superior to the 401k since you can invest in whatever the hell you want. If you dont know and dont really want to research specific stocks, the best thing you can do is simply invest in diversified etfs. I personally like investing in the these two

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundId=0970&FundIntExt=INT

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundId=0991&FundIntExt=INT

You get completely diversified in two very cheap etfs (extremely low expense ratio - and that matters a great deal)

If you want to take a bit more of a gamble, you can invest in sectors of the US economy, such as Staples, REITs, Financials, etc. That might be an option for you since instead of trying to figure out if a specific company is good, you simply bet on the whole sector of the economy.

As for fees and such, if you sign up with Vanguard, trading their ETFs is free (though i think there is a yearly fee if you dont have like 50k in there account)

I also like Trade King since there are no hidden fees and charges, and trading costs like 4.95

oh, and always choose ETFs over mutual funds and index funds over managed funds. managed mutual funds suck
 

Anno

Member
Question from a total n00b... is it a decent (not good, just decent) idea to play with stocks with $500? Or will the transaction costs/commissions eat away all my gains? Should I save more money to play in the stock market?

Also, the original post is 5 years old. Are there any decent newer books on stocks that specifically focus on the stock market post-2008 crash?

If you want to invest with small amounts of money you can also look into company-specific direct investment plans. Many of the larger blue chip companies will let you buy shares from them directly, often at no commission. You can set it up to draw out a certain number of dollars every couple weeks or a month to buy fractional shares. They will also automatically reinvest any dividends in further shares.
 
So my work set us up with an ETRADE account to manage our Options and RSUs. If I want to start trading individually, should I start with an account there? The transaction fees are rather high...
 

Piecake

Member
So my work set us up with an ETRADE account to manage our Options and RSUs. If I want to start trading individually, should I start with an account there? The transaction fees are rather high...

well, i personally use trade king, and i have no complaints. 4.95 for trades and like 5.75 for options and no hidden fees.

If you do actually decide to go with them, I can refer you and we will both get 50 bucks out of the deal (got to fund the account for like 1k and make a trade in 3 months or something). I just need an email, so PM if youre interested
 
well, i personally use trade king, and i have no complaints. 4.95 for trades and like 5.75 for options and no hidden fees.

If you do actually decide to go with them, I can refer you and we will both get 50 bucks out of the deal (got to fund the account for like 1k and make a trade in 3 months or something). I just need an email, so PM if youre interested

I've read that TK has an unreliable site (issues with high traffic). Any truth to that?
 

Piecake

Member
I've read that TK has an unreliable site (issues with high traffic). Any truth to that?

I havent experienced any problems with the site, but that is just anecdotal evidence, so for all i know it could be a issue. I think they won some customer satisfaction award or something like that last year though, so I really cant imagine them winning that if they had problems with high traffic bogging down their site
 
I use OptionsHouse, they're the cheapest I could find @ $3.95/trade. Their site is pretty good, and if you're into trading options it's by far the cheapest way to do it (something like $3.95 + $0.10 per extra leg, up to 10).
 
So how many of you are going to be buying tech stocks (closely linked to FB) in anticipation of Facebook's launch later this week? Seems that as Facebook goes, so to will the rest of them.

I'm predicting short term gains over the next week for Groupon, LinkedIn and Zynga, then it will simmer back down next week.
 
Why would Groupon and LinkedIn both go up? Their relationship to Facebook seems small and their profitability seems crappy.

Doesn't matter. They are inexplicably lumped together in the eyes of the Street. The whole online start-up sector will get a boost. It's the dot.com bubble 2.0, baby.
I wouldn't suggest going long in any of those stock, btw. Take your profits and get out, because it's all going to come back down.
 

Scarecrow

Member
I have a few quick questions. I have around 3K worth of stock I'm trying to off load, partly to finally invest in health insurance. What should I know about selling my stock? How much is the broker (Schwab) probably going to suck out of me? What do I need to know about being taxed on my sales? And, what's the difference between the order types Market, Limit, Stop and Stop Limit?
 
I have a few quick questions. I have around 3K worth of stock I'm trying to off load, partly to finally invest in health insurance. What should I know about selling my stock? How much is the broker (Schwab) probably going to suck out of me? What do I need to know about being taxed on my sales? And, what's the difference between the order types Market, Limit, Stop and Stop Limit?

If you've held the stock less than a year, you will pay your regular tax rate on earnings (whatever income bracket you fall into). If held longer than a year, you will pay capital gains tax:

-0% rate if your total income (including capital gain income) places you in the ten or fifteen percent tax brackets.
-15% rate if your total income (including capital gain income) places you in the twenty-five percent tax bracket or higher.

Schwab will take their ~$7 commission on every trade. So if you've got 3 different stocks to sell (no matter how many shares of each), you will pay $21.

You should never really use market limit. You're handing your shares to your broker and saying "get whatever you can for them". While most of the time this will be ok, you can end up getting screwed big time under certain circumstances.

What you want is a limit order, set at a price you're comfortable selling your stock for. It will sell at that price or better.

A stop order will execute at a given price. If you set a stop at $2.00, you automatically issue a market order to sell that stock when it reaches this prices. That's why I prefer stop limit orders, so I can set a stop ($2.00) and a limit (say, $1.98). This way, if the stock hits a low of $2.00, my stock will sell but not for less than $1.98.

Hope this makes sense.
 

Scarecrow

Member
Thanks. I'm pretty sure I fall near the %15 tax bracket, as I don't make that much. And I've definitely had these stocks more than a year. So I guess I should be going for limit order.
 
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