Smiles and Cries
Member
^ Didn't Overstock create a crypto dividend to fix their issues with being shorted?
*heavy breathing
*heavy breathing
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Stock-Age: Stocks, Options and Dividends oh my!
- Thread starter koam
- Start date
zeorhymer
Member
This makes no sense. Gamestop doesn't "make" anything. They're retailers.
GHG
Member
In order for them to sell NFT's they would need to leverage the partnerships they have with publishers. Until they can get those agreements in place it's nothing.
From the publisher or platform holders perspective why would they let Gamestop sell NFT's on their behalf when they can go direct to consumer via their existing online platforms?
I don't see Gamestop's angle here and it stinks of bandwagon jumping in order to keep their share price artificially high for an extended period of time.
DrunkandDrunker
Member
A quick read up on NFT seems like it can be used to enable digital used game sales and peer to peer trading of in game asset, outside the game.
Kinda in line with what Gamestop has been doing with physical disks.
There seems to even be a NFT market for ingame assets of blockchain games.
I feel officially old.
Kinda in line with what Gamestop has been doing with physical disks.
There seems to even be a NFT market for ingame assets of blockchain games.
I feel officially old.
zeorhymer
Member
The "original" digital format is from the console folks. Gamestop can't just go, it's mine now cause of a token. The big 3 will never allow the digital copy to be reused again. Remember how XB1 tried to do that back when they wanted it to be discless? Not only did it not go too well with customers, but it was a convoluted mess all around.
Smiles and Cries
Member
feels like a quiet day today
took some profits still up a lot
took some profits still up a lot
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
I miss that youtube video blocker
My feed just gets flooded by all these retarded investors.
My feed just gets flooded by all these retarded investors.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
My baby nokia won another 5G contract today in the philippines too
Feeling really proud of my investments in this one.
Feeling really proud of my investments in this one.
GHG
Member
Yo WhAt iS hApPeNnInG yAAl.
Invest in this BANGING stock that is up 200% in the last 5 days and don't forget to SMASH THAT LIKE BUTTON.
ArtemisClydeFrog
Banned
Great day for all my investments. But that Roblox though 
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
GHG
Member
When the party is over it will leave a lot of people in pain. This is a war where nobody wins (apart from those who were sensible and sold when they were in a profitable position).
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
If the crash is triggered by hedge funds that were caught shorting GME/AMC thinking that nobody would notice they are borrowing more shares than exist and suddenly have to sell to cover their positions, then I wouldn’t blame the community, but the hedge fund managers that absorbed too much risk.
I read that the hedge funds were in talks with the fed to bail them out; it feels dumb imho that there are no consequences for their mistakes.
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Smiles and Cries
Member
No worries the media will always blame to meme guys not the hedge funds or banks
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Pretty much. The media and financial sector of the government always make sure to find a third party to take the blame.
During 2008, only one hedge fund manager went to jail and a single bank went down. Every other bank that participated in the nationwide Ponzi scheme was bailed out and got a bonus for their troubles.
During 2000 after the Enron fallout only the Enron execs went to jail (while still keeping absurds amounts of money) and every bank that helped them cook the books was left unscathed.
I don’t expect anything different once the GME/AMC deal bit resolves.
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ricardo_sousa11
Member
You're kind of cheering for the wrong guys, you want the average joe to get burned for something that the HF actively did, years of malpractice, fraud, ilegal activity, causing millions of deaths and unemployement over the years, without a single consequence.
But because you dont understand it, or because it goes against your idea of investing, you want people that found the actual best way to make them pay for what they have done for years, to fail, so they "grow some sense", grow some sense not to mess with the big guys? With the Elites? With the people that "know"? What is the lesson here?
I really dont get this clubism, that the other must lose so that you can win, and when the other is winning its because they are fools and you cant wait for them to lose just so they can "learn".
Doesnt make a lot of sense, but hey ,thats just me.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
+1.5% today. All time high. Maybe I'll get some of this later tonight during the late hockey game.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Meme stocks shooting up is pretty dumb, but why do you want people to lose money?
I'm not into GME or AMC etc.... but hey, for anyone rolling the dice on them I want them to make some cash and not get burned. Whether its stocks, real estate or crypto, we're all trying to make some cash together.
Why do you want to see people get burned?
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Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
I'm not cheering for anyone
And it's not just these stupid meme stocks, it's hype stocks too, and my issue isn't with the average joe invester getting pulled along, it's the dumbasses that push it. Some are making a lot of money, the majority are not.
People like the YouTubers that are spamming my feed. People like Cathie Woods. The ones causing financial manslaughter because they hype up trash stocks like Warhorse and the average joe gets burned.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
The sooner people get burned the better, because they're going to get burned eventually following idiots like Kevin
CrankyJay™
Member
I’m still off by about $4000. Haven’t sold anything yet. Patiently waiting.
ricardo_sousa11
Member
You're confusing both.
The term Meme stock pretty much came from media and the hype from Cramer back in december, this gives it a negative conotation that isnt real.
AMC and GME have nothing to do with hype stocks, pump and dump schemes or all the alt/shitcoins around.
There is a fundamental "flaw" (malpractice) in both of these stocks, if you believe in a fair market then this is exacly the fight for a fair market, people have discovered a very very specific situation that either A) "to the moon" like everyone is waiting or B) destroys the integrity of the market, and this is where the value is at. They lost at their own game, because they didnt follow their own rules.
I do agree we live in a hyper social world, people like Cathie Wood that use their status and platform to boast their investments isnt a good thing, as well as pretty much all sort of investment advice should be taken with a little grain of salt. This is where you will separate educated people from the herd, obviously the majority of people investing will lose money, its an easy game to get into but hard to master, and this hyper exposure creates a casino/lootbox mentality that can be very bad.
However, it really isnt fair to wish people would get burned just to learn a lesson, the lesson to be learned here is that AMC and GME do have very very special circumstances, that when studied in depth do show how ugly the market is.
The way the market works today is far far different than how it worked a year ago, and the sooner people face it, the better.
I wish we all could make as much money as possible, but I do aknowledge the majority will lose money, not because they followed a youtuber, but because they refused to learn more about where and why they were investing.
GHG
Member
It's not about cheering for the right guys or the wrong guys it's about being sensible and promoting sensible investment strategies that drastically reduce the chances that ones account will get decimated or blown up.
People are promoting fighting fire with fire, literally. The hedge funds are in this position because they failed to manage their risk (and got greedy) when shorting certain companies. So instead of that being the takeaway lesson from all of this (to manage your risk appropriately) you have people all over reddit and youtube promoting exactly the same thing but from the opposite perspective.
- Let's go all in on GME and AMC, over 50% (or even 100%) of your portfolio is fine - lets do what it takes
- Using a load of margin is fine, why wouldn't you, it's free money
- HODL and never sell, even when you are 500% up
- Don't use stop losses, those are for weak hands
- To the moon, apes strong together
The irony is that all of the bullet points listed above mirror the mindset that the hedge funds adopted which created this mess in the first place. The most basic principle in the market is that money is transferred, not generated out of thin air. When you buy your stocks someone else is selling and vice versa. Due to that it means that when someone wins, someone else will ultimately lose by the same margin - not everyone can win. The hedge funds got (and are getting) burnt because they didn't manage risk, got greedy and used excessive amounts of margin. Sadly they have ways of continuing to do business even after getting their hands burnt like this while your average retail investor doesn't.
And this is where it all falls down. When this meme stock buzz is over and the likes of GME and AMC start to fall down to their intrinsic values who do you think will make money on the way down? Those who YOLO'd without stop lossses on the way up and didn't sell when in profitable positions? Not a chance, they will be too busy HODL'ing and crying in to their bags to realise that there is still a way for them to make money (even on the very same stock!) with their remaining money if they reinvested their tied up capital. It is those with the education and unlimited funds (which enables them to continue and fight another day even through adversity) who will be making money when that happens - the very hedge funds everyone is fighting so hard to bring down.
The crux of the matter is that this is a futile fight. Some people will make money, yes, but not everyone can. And due to the way that it is panning out there are a lot of people who stand to lose everything if they are not careful, just like the hedge funds did when they got greedy in their shorting of the likes of GME and AMC.
Ultimately, the unfortunate reality is that in a lot of cases it takes people getting burnt hard in order to learn. If the above strategy works for them and they decide to continue investing in the stock market what do you think will ultimately happen? So yes, people do need to lose money, we cannot go on and get past these meme stocks without that being the case, it's the only way this episode can draw to a close. Not everyone can sell at the top at the same time when eventually there will be no more buyers at the top. Your expensive shares don't get sold in to thin air.
The stock market isn't a mechanism which transfers money from the poor to the rich, it's a mechanism which transfers money from the uneducated to the educated. People should be seeking out how to get educated on the stock market, not seeking out get rich quick strategies from reddit/youtubers and then crying about hedge funds when it doesn't work.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
This is the type of shit that's pissing me off. It has gone completely beyond just a movement of "sticking it to the elites". W
It's influential "investors" with an audience in the thousands to millions pushing shit like GME to people who have no understanding of the fundementals.
People need to get burned because of fucking idiots like him. I'm not saying this out of spite. I'm saying this because this shit is dangerous, and it becomes even more dangerous for these people the longer this drags on
GHG
Member
This is the type of shit that's pissing me off. It has gone completely beyond just a movement of "sticking it to the elites". W
It's influential "investors" with an audience in the thousands to millions pushing shit like GME to people who have no understanding of the fundementals.
People need to get burned because of fucking idiots like him. I'm not saying this out of spite. I'm saying this because this shit is dangerous, and it becomes even more dangerous for these people the longer this drags on
You know what's funny about all of this, if you watch the likes of Meet Kevin's or Ziptrader's (the latter I don't mind so much because he actually does tell people to take profits when they are available) videos they have a very subtle way of preemptively blaming hedge funds for if and when things go wrong using their strategies or investing in the stocks they like to promote. Whenever there is a bad day in the markets it's "hedge funds this, institutions that". When crypto crashes, "oh well the hedge funds are involved now so we should expect this" (as if crypto never crashed before there was widespread hedge fund involvement). It's laughable. Have these people never seen the volatility in the OTC market and in small listed biotech companies that have minimal institutional involvement?
They are pretty much saying "don't blame me if you lose your money based on my recommendations, that's the hedge funds' fault". It's like... no... the people who follow you are losing money because you are failing to give them the appropriate education. It's alright for you when you lose your money in the stock market because you actually make more money off youtube than you do your actual investments (and when you lose ridiculous amounts of money you will get more views because of it and you know it).
These people are frauds.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
Hah yeah, but remember it's okay for them because "i'M noT A FinaNCIAL aDVisur"
Funny enough there's another one called Stock Moe who was "Workhorse to the
" buying shares when it was at ATH in the $30-$40 range. Of course it dropped off a cliff back into single digits. He actually used to be a licensed financial advisor, but apparently he doesn't have his license anymore so it's still okayI found the bitcoin stuff quite funny. People didn't bat an eye when Elon manipulates it pushing the price upwards, but when it goes in the opposite direction oh boy.
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down 2 orth
Member
I think how the meme stock/crypto currency/hype stock craze is playing out is unique, but the overall circumstance of a hot stock market attracting amateur investors is not. That's happened more than enough times in the past, and it always ends with retail losing their shirts and the smart investors buying up stakes in major companies. It's a tried and true method. Who wouldn't want to take money from the ignorant/greedy and then buy up companies on the cheap?
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Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
Bull markets attract amateurs no doubt about that
I think what makes it worse though is how much more accessible it is thanks to platforms like Robinhood and Trading212, and the youtubers promoting those sites with free shares and the like
When i'm eating out and such, i'm now seeing my own friends and family telling me what hype stocks to buy. I believe one of them eventually dropped it after losing like £500 on Tesla.
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TheContact
Member
Bitcoin fucked me but Ford balanced me out lol
Le Big Mac
Member
Most people learn by mistakes and frankly I'd rather those mistakes turn people into value investors instead of on the spot stock buyer that Yahoo finance or some financial influencer recommended.
Go for MIPS AB, Bemxico, Mitsui group etc. Better to read quarterly financials and look at forecasting models on Tview
Go for MIPS AB, Bemxico, Mitsui group etc. Better to read quarterly financials and look at forecasting models on Tview
Master Of Illusion
Member
I'm gonna short the entire German economy.
DrunkandDrunker
Member
Personally, I don't have much faith in crypto currency. My understanding of blockchain is that it's a decentralized ledger, so a valid use case has to take advantage of that characteristic.
So, will the big 3 jump on a digital used game trading system. Lets look at a front runner.
Selling used PC games through the blockchain? We’re not buying it [Updated]
Robot Cache has some interesting ideas and some important hurdles.
arstechnica.com
The site opened beta in 2020, and there aren't any AAA titles by major publishers on robot cache's store. You can mine your way to a game which means, you can pay for the game with your PC and electricity bill.
I guess a potential use case here is with 1-2 gen old consoles, like Wii and WiiU virtual console. As long as the hardware can be repaired and maintained, those downloaded games would have value. If they could have been traded even with the Wiishop being closed, that would have been convenience for the customer and extra revenue for the publisher.
Gamestop having their own crypto token makes sense for doing digital used game trade. Although I do question the demand for "digital used games."
I'm not too fond of crypto currency so I never really looked into it but I guess I'll have to now.
As for other use cases, TCG seems a fit for NFT. Digital cards having the same collectable value characteristics as physical cards is a plus for the customer. And leveled up account selling of free-to-play and freemium games have been a thing for long, I'm sure game devs might consider using NFTs to get a cut of those transaction as well.
Imagine if you could mine for a XboxSX on an XboxSX with a GameStop app, XboxSX can officially be the cheapest console ever created.
ricardo_sousa11
Member
The hedge funds didnt fail to manage their risk, they created phantom shares in order to drive the price to 0, this isnt a consequence, this is an action. They actively created synthetic shares (which is ilegal) boasting the float by 300%, this isnt simply a "got greedy" thing. They do not have enough power and money to keep this running, this week alone they already lost 1.8B$, and since this whole thing started its estimated they lost about 60B$, even for the elite, this is a lot of money that they cant keep losing.
You could say the same about all the TV shows about finance, we're social beings, obviously people will talk about it in social media, reddit or youtube, it is in your hands to get that information and judge wether or not its worth putting your money into.
This investing craze started with Crypto and the recent surge in apps that let you invest for free, like robinhood, webull, revolut, degiro, trading212 and so on, it is obvious that youtube and reddit would be major platforms to share investment tips. This isnt a bad thing, over exposure to something isnt a bad thing, i'd rather have the choice to go to youtube and see thousands of kids excited about this and talking about it, than not having it.
People will lose money, just like the majority lose money investing in "fundamental" stocks, hell, even if you had invested in any of the popculture'ish big companies you'd be losing money, apple, tesla, microsoft, fb. Thats how this works, but it really isnt the case, I do agree most people who probably joined AMC and GME have not done any DD and have no idea whats going on, but if you spend some time you'll quickly find this isnt a rich quick scheme, and its fundamentally one of the strongest plays in the market.
Im not trying to convince anyone to invest or not invest in AMC, i've been talking about it for a while now because as I said earlier, I did my own DD, and after the market started tanking in late feb. this has been by far the best investment i could have done in the stock market, Im currently sitting on 170% profit, whilst a week ago I was in the negative, and in the end thats what matters, I've been investing for a while and we always have this false sense of security by investing with "fundamentals", but which fundamentals are those? Technical analysis? "knowing" the CEO because hes someone famous? Do you read earnngs reports, look at the companies financials and do your own math/DD to determine if its all true or not?
The truth is, we tend to invest in hype, and whats "big", only a small minority will have the time and skill to consistently make money with fundamentals, most people think they are investing on fundamentals but have no idea what those are.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
AMC hit an all time high now. Good shit for you guys who have it.
Smiles and Cries
Member
breathe homie breathe
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
My bro has been hyping AMC might go to $50. I called him crazy. Hell, you never know. lol
Dusktildawn48
Member
i sold at $9, im such a bitch.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I took some profit yesterday, now I will do nothing but HOLD
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
A market cap 16x their revenue. Sounds reasonable
Your brother's a billionare in the making
ricardo_sousa11
Member
Market cap is completely irrelevant on a SS.
Market cap is a reference number of # of shares x price of shares, if they all sold at the exact same price, but thats about it, it doesnt account for other much more important factors.
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
Hey if you think shit companies trading at 16x their revenue is a reasonable prediction go for it
Do i think it can go to 50? Sure
Is it a reasonable estimation? Absolutely not
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HawksWinStanley
Member
BCRX
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Up about 0.50%. Not the greatest. But ok.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Tootie grew big tits when she got older.BCRX
CrankyJay™
Member
BCRX
Going to sell 20% of my position if it hits $15.10. I still think this is channel bound for awhile, probably mid 15's to 16's.
If it doesn't hit that I'm happy to hold.
ricardo_sousa11
Member
Once again, its only foolish to look at their revenue after a pandemic that closed down all their revenue source for a full year and still counting.
The fact is, even ignoring all this squeeze talk, AMC is the largest movie theatre chain in the word, they have over 1000 locations, employee tens of thousands of people, and even if the theatres were open there simply isnt many movies coming out. Amc was never a 2$ share price, nor a 10$, fundamentally it should hover around 25$, thats what i believe is its intrinsic value.
From my DD, i can safely tell you, that AMC has been incredibly shorted for almost a decade, this has nothing to do with the fundamentals of the company, they showed their highest ER in 2018/19 (have to check it up) and the stock kept crashing, this has nothing to do with how the company is doing.
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GHG
Member
Why do you think they did that? Greed. Under what circumstances would someone do something illegal in order to make money when they already make millions of dollars a year? Greed. What is it called when you attempt to squeeze every last drop out of something instead of taking the profits at a reasonable amount (they wanted AMC and GME to go to 0)? Greed.
It's 100% a greed and risk management thing. If they had managed risk appropriately and didn't get greedy then there would be no short squeeze to be had and we wouldn't be having this discussion. There comes a point in ever trade where the downside risk is higher than your remaining potential upside.
Overexposure to something that isn't any good is a bad thing. The youtube channels that talk about fundamentals and the mathematic side of investing tend to have a fraction of the number of subscribers and views in comparison to the hype investment channels. Learning something that will set you up for a lifetime of investing? Sorry, that's too boring.
It's a sign of the times we live in. Are you going to tell me the likes of Tom Nash and Meet Kevin are fundamental investors.
Most retail investors lose money because they have no idea what the fuck they are doing nor do they understand the companies that they are investing in. It is very rare that you will enter a long term position and it will just go up in a smooth line. You will have days where you are in the red in the position but if you don't understand whether it makes sense to hold, buy more or sell then emotional panic sets in and you'll sell at a loss only to then see it rocket a couple of years down the line.
The only reason to sell a long term position is if something has changed for the worse in terms of the fundamentals or the reason you held the stock in the first place is no longer there (a dividend stock cutting their dividend for example). The problem comes in when people have no idea why they bought something in the first place (other than "I heard someone talking about this and it looks like it's going up"), when it's red panic sets in.
And please, people are not buying the likes of Tesla, Apple and Facebook based on fundamentals. They are buying them because they are well known companies. Despite them being great companies you can get it wrong with buying those companies when you buy in too high and fail to select an appropriate entry point that makes sense based on where the company is at a particular moment in time.
People losing money on these companies are not doing so because they have selected bad companies, they have selected bad entry points and have no idea how to go about calculating a good entry point. Why is this ok? Why is this not popular to talk about this on reddit and youtube? I'll tell you why, because the process is time consuming and would be seen as "boring" by most.
People buying TSLA, PLTR, etc at this moment in time are not doing so due to any fundamentals, if they were they would run a mile. Do I think they are bad companies? No. Do I think they are a joke from the perspective of their stocks at the moment? Yes.
And please don't try to tell me AMC isn't a get rich quick scheme, what percentage is it up week on week? What is your goal here, to make a decades worth of S&P gains in a couple of months or is it because you like AMC and you are sacrificing your cash to save them from the big bad hedge funds? The "fundamentals" here are based on a theory, a theory that currently has a lot more down side risk than up side. A theory that is completely detached from the value of the underlying asset. If we are talking about fundamentals it currently makes more sense to short Tesla (or buy puts) than it does to throw money in to AMC.
AMC is not an "investment", based on the current situation it's something to be traded, it's a means of making money (very quickly). This is my problem, people are framing this short squeeze thing as an "investment", and this is what new investors come to expect as a result of the way this is being talked about.
All the major indexes have recovered since February and are up since the start of the year. We have people here who are up since the start of the year despite how the market has been since February. If you are still down since then then you probably need go back to the drawing board and have a good look at your portfolio and figure out why. Growth stocks are (still) horribly overvalued at the moment and are more likely to go down than they are to go up. The same with a lot of tech stocks. You can't buy in to an overvalued pumped up market and then complain when you inevitably end up down. Did you know that what you were buying at the time was overvalued and had years worth of future growth pre-baked in to the share price?
You can dismiss the fundamentals in favour of what you are doing now because "it works" but the reality is that it will work until it doesn't and you will be back to square one. Anyway, I wish you luck and hope you get the money you are looking for out of AMC/GME.
GHG
Member
Sorry but what are you talking about? Look here:
AMC | AMC Entertainment Holdings Inc. Cl A Annual Cash Flow Statement | MarketWatch
AMC Entertainment Holdings Inc. Cl A Annual cash flow by MarketWatch. View AMC net cash flow, operating cash flow, operating expenses and cash dividends.
www.marketwatch.com
AMC's highest earnings report in the last 5 years in terms of annual income was 2016 (111.67M), not 2018 (110.1M).
The only reason 2018 looked "good" (a 122.6% gain year on year) was because their 2017 was abysmal.
They were a dying company, long before the pandemic. Look at their 2019 pre-pandemic figures - a loss of 149M.
Look at their free cash flow for the last 5 years:
In what world is that a company worth $25 a share? 25$ a share puts them at an 11B market cap. A company that has an average net free cash flow in the negative billions for the last 5 years is worth a 11B market cap? In what world? Even if you take the pandemic year out of the equation they are still -71.66M.
I don't understand your logic here.
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