LunaticHigh
Member
Steve is extremely good as an anchor. He has some of the highest damaging combos in the game with meter
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- Thread starter Tizoc
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Steve is extremely good as an anchor. He has some of the highest damaging combos in the game with meter
ihearthawthats
Banned
yes, but you'll have 3 more gems to work with than the opponent does to make up for it. i understand that the playstyle will have to change against opponents that decide to use the gem (not everyone will), but simply using the gem doesn't mean they're going to get automatic wins.
autoblock = 1 barguardiane said:
autotech = 1/2 bar
characters with 2-hit overheads would kill 2 bars instantly. i'd have no problem using it even knowing it would get blocked just to rape their meter.
SUPARSTARX
Member
Remember these gems cannot activate unless you're idle
yo_soy_el_topo
Member
So I'm kinda mixed on the game after playing it for a week or so. Must say, the true EWGF saved the game for me. Something about popping three or four true EWGF midscreen on people in a 2d game that is just too rewarding.
And I could chill in training mode all day with Kaz + random just finding silly combos into EWGF's.
Did I mention how much I like EWGF's?
And I could chill in training mode all day with Kaz + random just finding silly combos into EWGF's.
Did I mention how much I like EWGF's?
Idle, but you can still press directions, no? It's a tool to prevent and shutdown mix-ups, not make you safe from punishes or counterhits.
Sir Garbageman
Member
The EX Defense one both auto techs throws and auto blocks for you for 1/4 of a bar. You're playing someone with a life lead and a bar holding down back. What do you do? If he doesn't push a button you literally have to land four throws or mix him up four times to do damage. What if he's sitting on 2 bars? I guess if you have a command throw you're in a better position, but that's what, a quarter of the cast?
Going to be so terrible fighting against certain characters online. It may not be broken or whatever, but sure as hell doesn't sound fun. My two cents.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
If you're a late techer (which you should be since throws take longer to start up) then you should never get thrown with a autotech gem + meter available. Either you autotech before the button press or you get your natural throw tech.
Since it resets both players at zero frames and pushes you fairly far apart it's a complete momentum stopper for the guy on offense. Want to keep the pressure going with a throw? Too bad.
This gem is really potent for characters that have good defense like Guile, Dhalsim and Ryu.
ihearthawthats
Banned
but what did he do to get the life lead and meter in the first place? you cant get meter by holding downback.
But you can get meter by whiffing normals.
ihearthawthats
Banned
and if you're whiffing normals, auto-block won't activate.
i understand that the effects of these gems can be pretty strong. they're not terrible gems by any means, but i think people are overlooking the fact that both meter and gem slots are valuable commodities.
can you live without switch cancels? ex reversals? alpha counters? any bnbs that use meter?
You can whiff normals from full screen and get meter... any time throughout the round. Not just when you're playing lame. The point is that it's very easy to get meter in this game, and if you've got a lead, have decent defense, have meter, and wanted to lame it out, there are few options that your opponent has to open you up.
Yeah, your two hit overhead will use up a whole meter, but your opponent just saved themselves from 50% damage. And next time, they'll be looking out for that overhead.
There are plenty of characters that do very very solid meterless damage. I'm not arguing the gems are broken. That has yet to be seen. I'm just making a point that they have the potential to be really strong.
You can whiff normals safely. Also you can throw projectiles safely.
Ryu with the EX Defense gem would be bonkers.
Just because you may have gotten outplayed in the first half of a round to lose the life lead, doesn't mean you should have to lose the match automatically from that point because his gem setup doesn't allow you to get in any more hits.
there are plenty of ways to land or prevent damage without these things. especially if you pick certain characters.
Sim doesn't need meter to make life hellLove Sim!
Exactly. He can keep all of the meter for his assist gems.
Sure, it doesn't activate if you push a button. But Sim with full bar can just down/back and wait for the opportunity to slide or teleport to safety. The battle against Dhalsim is to get in his face, while he smacks you at least a couple of times from a distance, building meter. This EX defense gem seems to shut everything down once you do get in.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
To answer that, that's one of the beautiful things about Dhalsim. Without meter, and in the right hands, he CAN live without those. It's an uphill battle, but a lot of fellow Dhalsim players think outside the box and can survive well strictly on mind games.
I guess that argument can be made for any character, but Dhalsim is special to me!
SUPARSTARX
Member
I don't know if you guys have tested whiff normals for meter, but it's like half of what you would get by forcing the opponent to block that attack.
These gems will favor certain characters and play styles for sure. You guys are posting favorable or neutral situations where these gems might proc. you still have to somewhat commit to letting the gems go off. If you block normally, they don't go off. If you're attacking they don't go off.
I still don't think they will be game breaking at the moment, but they definitely help if you're but one for blocking or breaking throws.
I've seen art use it in his stream. a lot of people don't even get close enough to him to get it to go off. That's not too say it is useless, you eat one or two mix up then get away. Other characters probably won't have this luxury and will be more meter dependent.
Using meters in your combos unlock so much damage. You really need the right combination of things to balance out defense with this gem.
These gems will favor certain characters and play styles for sure. You guys are posting favorable or neutral situations where these gems might proc. you still have to somewhat commit to letting the gems go off. If you block normally, they don't go off. If you're attacking they don't go off.
I still don't think they will be game breaking at the moment, but they definitely help if you're but one for blocking or breaking throws.
I've seen art use it in his stream. a lot of people don't even get close enough to him to get it to go off. That's not too say it is useless, you eat one or two mix up then get away. Other characters probably won't have this luxury and will be more meter dependent.
Using meters in your combos unlock so much damage. You really need the right combination of things to balance out defense with this gem.
ihearthawthats
Banned
they are meant to be usable, which i think they are. it'll probably see usage online, but i really doubt that randoms are going to start winning major tourneys because of these gems. so i'm okay with this.
well i think this is where we're going to have to agree to disagree, because i don't think these gems will give automatic wins.brian said:
The issue I have, when you're considering someone like art using an autoblock gem, is that he already has solid defense. Of course, if you're using autoblock as a crutch, then it's going to be more of a liability. A waste of meter and it'll take longer for you to get better at defensive play.
However, if you're already a great defensive player and can block/tech 90% of mixups, the gems act as a failsafe... preventing that 10% from ever reaching you and doing damage.
I don't think anyone's saying that scrubs are going to be awesome with these gems because it'll hurt scrub play more then help. They're going to be incredibly strong when complementing a player's already solid defense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoa8oLjwGiA
Yes. One of the dlc gems (ex auto throw escape lvl3) costs no bar. "Ultimate Defense lvl3" is auto block combined with auto throw escape plus no chip damage and costs 1/4th of a bar. These take up 3 slots, but they're ridiculous. As soon as this dlc comes out I'll probably quit ranked, lol.
SUPARSTARX
Member
Yeah I think it's a good back up. I just don't think it may be worth it yet if your character isn't Sim. Like I said earlier, you're taking a small chunk out of many more sources of damage you may receive. If the opponent's offense revolves around attacks then you have to worry about committing to when you want to let the block go off even if you can 90%. It would also mean possible restriction on your offense too since whiff punishes are not uncommon in here.
Only if you're not pressing buttons, you can walk forward and still block with auto block gems. Not to mention if it's a multi hit move auto block will only cause the first hit to take meter. Rest register as regular block.
Long as you play smart, you'll be immune to high/low, forward/back mixups and even pokes.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Yeah I dont buy how those gems are there to help new people or casual, thats bullshit. Take a good player, give them those DLC gems are youre done.
Heres a thought, cap gems to BP score. Oh, youre above 1k? Well no lv 3 gems for you, buttface.
Heres a thought, cap gems to BP score. Oh, youre above 1k? Well no lv 3 gems for you, buttface.
LunaticHigh
Member
The same principles still stand though.
Spend your pts on auto-tech throw for instance, a better player wont need it and will take + damage. Suddenly you're at a 20-30% damage handicap for taking that gem.
I think the gems are a good idea, but in the end the better player is going to win anyway.
May have been an exaggeration, but it is going to be very very hard to win in this game if your opponent is sitting on a life lead with half the round over, full meter, auto block/auto tech gems, and is running away or holding down back.
It just annoys me that the developers threw this stuff in and claimed it has little utility in competitive play, and only meant for beginners, but that isn't really the case.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Ya, this is why I've been saying assist gems shouldn't be allowed in ranked play, should just be allowed in player rooms w/ host option to deactivate 'em. I've no problem with any of the boost gems, and still think they're an interesting idea.
The assist gems should absolutely be treated only as training wheels.
corrosivefrost
Member
One of my regular sparring partners uses auto-tech.
I abuse the fact that it drains meter by constantly tick-throwing his ass.
Next thing, he has no meter and is eating full out rush down.
We're usually pretty even.
I don't think they're a problem now, but the DLC versions that barely take meter(or none at all) for more slots are looking stupid.
Also, if he catches on to your tick throws he can still tech them himself. If anything the fact you're able to get him to activate the gem so much is showing that you're missing out on a ton of throws you otherwise would be landing.
My man... Do you know any good Jin combos? I can do 496 damage.. Corner only + 1 meter though =p.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Yesterday I played against two partners with like 1800 and 2600 BP respectively, I was excited cause my BP is low so I expected a fun match.
First guy playing Raven just blocked low, threw shurikens, then the other player as Julia did the same thing, sat on the slight lead and won by timeout.
How is that fun, I dont get it.
First guy playing Raven just blocked low, threw shurikens, then the other player as Julia did the same thing, sat on the slight lead and won by timeout.
How is that fun, I dont get it.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Too many play to win, not to have fun.
I hope we get to see some matches from him soon.
Ya, the ones right now are fine, since losing that much meter is a big tradeoff. The gems that only take 1/24th of your meter per block will barely dent your meter.
This assumes you even hit them while your damage gem is up. The auto-defense gem is always going to help when it's needed, the damage won't. Proper defense is the strongest skill to have in fighting games, something these gems give to you for only a small fraction of your meter. Add the fact that having good defense online is quite challenging, it makes it a very very strong gem.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I see it as truly playing to win also means playing to experiment (and have fun).
The guys who find a single strategy and perform it over and over online to grind BP often tend to be the ones that, when you figure out the counter and dismantle them, send hate mail because you're "a cheap bastard". In a real fight against pros, people who play to "win" like that would be DOA.
Playing to win in a broader sense does mean screwing around and trying out everything just to see what happens. Real pros know how to have fun, I guess you'd say.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Plus, if Im a 2500BP player and Im playing against a dude that has 50 BP ... thats my tactic? really? Turtle and timeout? Why you feeling so threatened bro?
Peer pressure.
Peer pressure.
Tag cancel combos are so much fun. I spent a day or so this weekend in the lab with Juri/Xiao and I've perfected endless tag cancel combos both for the corner and at midscreen. In fact I'm pretty sure I know a way to get behind them in the corner and start working them towards the other corner - which I admit is almost completely useless - but is amazing fun
Too bad we don't have endless meter in game
Too bad we don't have endless meter in game
Tag cancel combos are so much fun. I spent a day or so this weekend in the lab with Juri/Xiao and I've perfected endless tag cancel combos both for the corner and at midscreen. In fact I'm pretty sure I know a way to get behind them in the corner and start working them towards the other corner - which I admit is almost completely useless - but is amazing fun
Too bad we don't have endless meter in game
Wouldn't be surprised you could with the combination of a 60% meter gain, 40% meter reduction, +400 instant meter gain and the correct characters.
Your suffering is their pleasure ?
SUPARSTARX
Member
Tag cancel combos are so much fun. I spent a day or so this weekend in the lab with Juri/Xiao and I've perfected endless tag cancel combos both for the corner and at midscreen. In fact I'm pretty sure I know a way to get behind them in the corner and start working them towards the other corner - which I admit is almost completely useless - but is amazing fun
Too bad we don't have endless meter in game
I think I can loop a lei wulong combo with infinite meter lol
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Man, as a Dhalsim player one thing that makes your blood run cold is seeing another Dhalsim. The key: teleport last.
This is why you pick top tier. To crush them!
There is this Zangief/Akuma team where the Zangief is pretty good, but the Akuma is terrible and does nothing but jump back fireball. But the Akuma is B rank because the Zangief carries him. I wonder if he thinks he's actually good.
Hey GAF, is this normal? Looks like a glitch with the quick combos and mist step. http://youtu.be/4mTZRbEfD8E
goddamnit capcom
lol. Wouldn't that take a meter for each step?