There are some people in this thread whose opinions are so hilariously EDGY I just laugh every time they post. Like they think they're being selective critics when in fact they just hate their own hobby. Everything is terrible and they watch it all year after year and they hate it and they waste their days and lives hating it.
It's delightful. I feel like I'm watching an episode of that "terrible" anime Re:Zero with their constant suffering!
Subaru finally learned the importance of his charisma stat. Nice to see him using information he obtained in a previous replay in order to convince the other people to defeat the White Whale. Now the question to be answer is if they actually CAN defeat the White Whale. Crusche continues to be my favorite character outside of Rem, like honestly I don't even understand how it is a competition in who would be better to rule the kingdom.
Nice, we get to hear some history behind the White Whale in terms of who it impacted and whatnot, although the preview and the episode title felt like... a ruse but now it's time for
There are some people in this thread whose opinions are so hilariously EDGY I just laugh every time they post. Like they think they're being selective critics when in fact they just hate their own hobby. Everything is terrible and they watch it all year after year and they hate it and they waste their days and lives hating it.
It's delightful. I feel like I'm watching an episode of that "terrible" anime Re:Zero with their constant suffering!
1.The use of stands is much more creative and varied. You have the earlier episodes such as Angelo using the water to stalk Josuke's house, the multitude of uses for Koichi's Reverb, or even how Josuke uses the healing/restoration abilities of his stand. The last episode with Shigechi for example had him using Harvest to get his target drunk as a way of crippling them. Compare that to the main crew in Stardust Crusaders who had basic Stands such as controlling fire, punching things fast (until the time stop boost), or stabbing things fast. Joseph's ability in Part 3 was the most interesting creatively but it's not used much beyond recon and Joseph's stand alone episode. In contrast the most boring Stand for the main characters in Part 4 is Okuyasu's stand which is limited primarily due to Okuyasu being a dumbass. Not to mention the antagonists in Part 3 have largely straight forward Stand as well such as Hol Horse, Gray Fly, or Wheel of Fortune. Araki took the elements that worked in Part 3 for the Stand battles and amped them up. The battles are much more intelligent as a result with it coming down less to who's faster or stronger but rather smarter. It's sort of a medley of Part and Part 3.
2.The characterization is better due to the show having to spend less time on a larger cast. Jotaro is used much better as a side character whereas when he was the primary character he came off as boring or a prick. Here he plays off well against Josuke as seen in episode 16 with "Let's Go Hunting". You could also look at Rohan and Koichi's relationship in episode 17 with Koichi being irritable after the previous encounter with Rohan but also being dragged along at Rohan's flow. The smaller cast allows for episodes featuring only a couple of the main characters and so the audience not only has a better understanding of those characters but the audience sees them in more scenarios with different dynamics at play.
3.The setup is intriguing with the focus on the small town, Morioh. The standalone episodes work better in DiU compared to Stardust Crusaders because there isn't a clear goal in sight and so the show doesn't feel like it's spinning its wheels. The show works like a crazy slice of life, ala Persona, and so the standalone episodes fit more into that feeling. The stand-alone episodes in Stardust Crusaders came across as a stalling tactic, which I guess was what they were narratively, and as a result the work felt plodding. The other thing is that the villains are in some ways scarier because they could be living right down the street from the main characters. There's an undercurrent of paranoia to the work with the main characters not knowing who to fight.
Well yeh, it's better than Crusaders, I agree. But do I consider the characterization or general storytelling in DiU to be actually good? No. Do I love stands? Fuck no. I appreciate the visual creativity but abilities and encounters follow little logic and are so inconsistent that I never feel invested in the battles.
Seirei no Moribito, which I watched recently, had me more engaged in episode 3's confrontation than anything taking place in DiU.
There are some people in this thread whose opinions are so hilariously EDGY I just laugh every time they post. Like they think they're being selective critics when in fact they just hate their own hobby. Everything is terrible and they watch it all year after year and they hate it and they waste their days and lives hating it.
It's delightful. I feel like I'm watching an episode of that "terrible" anime Re:Zero with their constant suffering!
It's obvious who I'm talking to. Rather than having to point them out and argue the value of their miserable opinions, I'd rather laugh at their suffering.
People who hate Jojo? I mean they are on the wrong side of history P) but I dunno how you get to "EDGY". Maybe that poster wants minority opinions to be better explained or defended? But even then that will likely just end in a "agree to disagree".That post feels like something someone would post if they felt dogpiled because were a big SAO fan around these parts
It's obvious who I'm talking to. Rather than having to point them out and argue the value of their miserable opinions, I'd rather laugh at their suffering.
Yeah this isn't really how communication between adults works though (if you're actually interested in engaging people and their opinions aren't legitimately odius which I think is hard to do since at the end of the day we are just talking about anime)
It's obvious who I'm talking to. Rather than having to point them out and argue the value of their miserable opinions, I'd rather laugh at their suffering.
Well yeh, it's better than Crusaders, I agree. But do I consider the characterization or general storytelling in DiU to be actually good? No. Do I love stands? Fuck no. I appreciate the visual creativity but abilities and encounters follow little logic and are so inconsistent that I never feel invested in the battles.
Ok a better approach to this discussion then would be how do you think DiU fails on the characterization level? It seems like you're agreeing with me that the writing fixes a lot of the problem in Stardust Crusaders.
Now is the logic locked in? No, but this is the guy who randomly made Dio fly at the end of SC. However that doesn't mean the battles themselves can't be creative or that the Stands can't be used in an innovative fashion.
Stands having a defined rule set would mean that you wouldn't get stuff like Heavy Weather in Part 6, and who would deny anyone their right to seeing Heavy Weather?
It's obvious who I'm talking to. Rather than having to point them out and argue the value of their miserable opinions, I'd rather laugh at their suffering.
I understand what you're saying here, but there are a few things that you didn't take into account. The first being that it wasn't just in speed that she failed in but also accuracy. Chihaya may not be overtly sloppy in terms of making faults, but she's sure as hell not as accurate as the queen on a consistent basis. The second is that up until this point, we have only seen them fight against highschoolers who focus on speed and memorization entirely. Basically, all that the narrative is trying to imply (which gets compounded later) is that Chihaya's strengths aren't only in speed, and that neglecting those strengths and only focusing on speed won't make her queen material.
As for her going after wrong cards, its about the mentality of the match itself you have to consider. Chihaya wasn't nearly as panicked and clouded in thought when she fought the queen. Considering how chihaya's play is affected and how she works on things other than speed form here until a certain period of time, I think this is fine all things considered.
My main problem is that in all of Chihaya's high school matches that we've seen, she's never had a problem with accuracy. So to suddenly act like this is a long-standing problem of hers feels false. Plus, Chihaya was way more "panicked and clouded in thought" during her match with the Queen than she was in causal practice matches at the karuta society and school club. If she had a problem with accuracy, it should definitely have manifested when she was feeling extreme pressure and frustration.
Dela's not the only problem with Tamako Market, but he is one of the main problems for sure. He's a total joke of a character, so having him constantly sticking his nose in what otherwise tries to be a serious situation ruins the atmosphere. Yamada was much better at handling character drama in K-ON!! and Sound Euphonium than here.
Orange ep.6
Oh damn. I guess that answers a TON of questions that everyone was coming up with about the direction the show was going in. Suwa is a much bigger man than I, but then again, now we know that
I don't know what Heavy Weather does but considering the wide range of abilities power systems like Devil Fruits display that follow a pretty strict set of rules, I don't buy that Stand creativity would be significantly impacted by having a slightly more ridge ruleset.
I don't know what Heavy Weather does but considering the wide range of abilities power systems like Devil Fruits display that follow a pretty strict set of rules, I don't buy that Stand creativity would be significantly impacted by having a slightly more ridge ruleset.
Ok a better approach to this discussion then would be how do you think DiU fails on the characterization level? It seems like you're agreeing with me that the writing fixes a lot of the problem in Stardust Crusaders.
Now is the logic locked in? No, but this is the guy who randomly made Dio fly at the end of SC. However that doesn't mean the battles themselves can't be creative or that the Stands can't be used in an innovative fashion.
The concept of Stands in Jojo is so loosely established to begin with that I don't think the series, at least what I've seen in Diamond is Unbreakable, really violates its own rule set. The back and forth of encounters, with characters trying to figure out how to take advantage of each others' weaknesses and outwit each other, is always fun to watch. If you're establishing some fictional power system, I much prefer this way to dragging the series down with extended logistical discussions a la Hunter X Hunter.
The way these things go means if I start calling these people out, I have to have some sort of protracted back and forth wherein I go back in their histories and list off all of the numerous anime that have some objective level of quality or uniqueness that they've called average or nothing special or garbage. Do I want to do that this afternoon? Hell no.
For instance, you have Jarmel arguing the quality of Jojo this season, and godspeed to him, but he's in the mood for that more than I am. The show is self evident. You don't have to actually LIKE Jojo in order to be cognizant of its inherent quality in at least a few respects.
I don't know what Heavy Weather does but considering the wide range of abilities power systems like Devil Fruits display that follow a pretty strict set of rules, I don't buy that Stand creativity would be significantly impacted by having a slightly more ridge ruleset.
Stand abilities are extremly specific to every single stand user, every single one of them has their own ruleset who no one can guess without seeing it in action. That's why dealing with one is extremly dangerous and one has to go to extreme lengths to even figure out what the power is they have.
Also Weather report makes Storm from X-men look like a middleschool dropout vs someone with multiple PhDs.
I even forgot he is the one doing that, every non-jojo protagonist wouldn't know what to do and be a crying wreck of a person on the floor when confronted with this.
Maoyu - Or that battle shounen that is really an elaborate metaphor for the Enlightenment and Early Reformation with a dash of Christian/Islamic relations
Eh well this was unexpected.
So I watched the first episode where our lone hero (his name is Yuusha, literally 'hero') abandons his companions and runs off to fight the Mahou (demon lord) and end the 15 year war between humans and demons. On arriving in the Mahou's throne room Yuusha discovers the demon lord to be a busty lady who is offering to share a new peaceful world with him. A few montages later and the hero is cool with this and romps off to settle down to establish credibility in the human world by improving the lot of a small village in the southern kingdom. So far, so ridiculous and I was thinking of it as yet another daft if entertaining show until a scene where we meet two sisters cowering in the stable. All of a sudden the show launches into a mini-lecture on serfs and the nature of free will. It was kind of an awkward scene but it keyed me into why the relationships seemed so weird and the plot kind of awkward, none of these characters were meant to be people.
Yuusha is the embodiment of chivalry or martial prowess, throughout the show its made clear that he could defeat whole armies all by himself and in one scene
melts an entire mountain
. His arcs mostly involve him realising that his power is fundamentally weak and incapable of effecting real change in the world. He is simply absent for almost the entire first half of the season and his role in the second is to simply hold on
until the Mahou returns
The Mahou represents the forces of rationality and science, she introduce 4 crop rotation, compasses, the printing press and multiple other innovations and as such is hunted for it. In the second half of the season the show becomes an explicit metaphor for the reformation when the Southern Kingdoms come under attack from the church after they
refuse to surrender the Mahou as a heretic to the Church which is wary of it's influence declining
.
The companions exist largely to serve as stand-ins for important groups at this time with a Merchant Guild stand in giving the show a chance to explain economic concepts such as futures contracts, currency manipulation and monopolies. The support of powerful traders for the Reformation in Northern Europe was vital and it's nicely mirrored here. The Knight who was one of Yuusha's travelling companions and now a Mother Superior in a convent is a stand in for those members who were swayed by Martin Luther and split to form the various Protestant churches. They also use her character to explain why the church was so prominent in medieval Europe by showing how convents and monasteries were the pre-eminent source of learning and science at that time. My favourite of these characters is the elder of the two serfs taken in as maids, she acts as a stand in for the ordinary peasant who wished to throw off the shackles of serfdom and forge their ow paths, her speech in Episode 9 is the only rabble rousing speech in the show and is incredibly well delivered (in fact it's probably the high point of the whole show).
The human world is split between an affluent North and a poor South that bears the burden of most of the fighting in return for food and aid from the North. The show is very good at showing the complex dynamics at play between allies and why despite Yuusha being OP as all hell they can't just have him smash all their enemies. The show essentially revolves around Mahou's efforts to make the Southern Kingdom strong enough economically and socially to break away from the North. This is achieved by a potted history of the First Agricultural Revolution, the introduction of the potato and economic theory courtesy of the trade guilds. The social strength comes from separating the devout people from the church via the use of the printing press and the spread of protestant churches.
There is another more graceless metaphor where the human forces are a stand in for medieval Europe and the demon forces are a proxy for the Islamic caliphates of North Africa and the Middle East. The humans 'crusade' into demon territory and have captured the walled Gate City there (Jerusalem), the demons have a portion of human territory in Bright Light Island which is an imperfect stand in for Al-Andalus in Spain (a history of Al-Andalus is titled Cities of Light). The crusades in Maoyu are pitched as attempts by the church to assert control and authority, which is one of the actual historical reasons for their existence, and the wanton cruelty displayed by them in the anime is in no way contradicted by the history of the real life crusades either. The crassness of making the non-human races stand in for the Islamic people is pretty damn hard to overlook though.
The shows greatest weakness is that no-one is a person here, human relationships are only useful in delivering the comedy beats of a love triangle between Yuusha, Mahou and the Knight. It's a standard affair but at least the Knight and Mahou behave like adults rather than retreating into child like stamping they talk and form a friendship that is pretty well written in fact. The hero is a vacuum though at once OP and useless in the face of the broader forces of social change and science ultimately he is a smiling nobody but he is at least aware of this. The grating aspects are that none of these cliches will surprise you in any way save perhaps that there is remarkably little ecchi especially given that is a Studio ARMS joint. The denouement of the show over the last two episodes felt like an attempt to deliver a shounen ending to a show that largely wasn't, as such it feels disconnected to the rest of the show and is largely silly.
Basically Mahou is a title that must be 'recharged' by lying with the spirits of former demon lords for months at a time. Of course this time the Mahou is at risk of losing herself to the war like former demon lords and needs the MC to save her, it's weird as she's been a very strong character up to now but shounen is as shounen does I suppose
.
Do I recommend the show? It comes down to how much you're up for characters that largely don't behave like people and how much this period of history interests you. I binged the hell out of it and it's now one of my favourites just for how they tried to deliver a rather complex and detailed potted history of the late medieval period via a silly shounen.
Again, the director behind this series is doing good stuff, that end with the silent transitioning to the phone music, and the contrast of the silly modern music with the gravitas of the scene of the White Whale appearing was pretty good.
I hope the director goes on in doing bigger and greater things.
Dela's not the only problem with Tamako Market, but he is one of the main problems for sure. He's a total joke of a character, so having him constantly sticking his nose in what otherwise tries to be a serious situation ruins the atmosphere. Yamada was much better at handling character drama in K-ON!! and Sound Euphonium than here.
Oh yeah there are more problems for sure. But he was single handedly the biggest one for me as well. Whenever I'd manage to get into the show and whatever was happening on screen, he would come in and start yapping on about himself and how great he is or whatnot. It totally ruined a lot of scenes that could have been great, and that would have more weight to them.
Again, he is entirely gone for 90% of the movie, which is arguably the best thing from Tamako Market, so look forward to that.
Orange - 06
There we go. They addressed one of the discussions some folks had here of her not reading ahead.
Also, that ending? FUCK did this get 10 times more interesting. Now I have to wonder if
all of them got a letter or if it was just him since he is her husband. It also has to be pretty damn cruel for him, unless the letter doesn't mention it, since he is basically helping her get with Kakeru while he is married to her and with a son.
For such an old, influential and popular series JoJo still works almost counterpoint to your standard battle shonen.
If you think of the evolution from Phantom Blood to Stardust Crusaders to Steel Ball Run to JoJolion its absurd. I say it a lot, but I can't believe that no one ever did the parts system that Araki made. Yes there are series that have time skips or have generational stories but they don't shift EIGHT times. To be fair, Araki has had 30 years and can do whatever he wants. I'd assume he has mangaka tenure by now. And Araki is only in his 50s, he could potentially have decades left in him.
The way these things go means if I start calling these people out, I have to have some sort of protracted back and forth wherein I go back in their histories and list off all of the numerous anime that have some objective level of quality or uniqueness that they've called average or nothing special or garbage. Do I want to do that this afternoon? Hell no.
Ok a better approach to this discussion then would be how do you think DiU fails on the characterization level? It seems like you're agreeing with me that the writing fixes a lot of the problem in Stardust Crusaders.
Jotaro, Josuke and Koichi are all pretty solid. Okuyasu, Rohan and some of the other previous "villain's" have these questionable turnarounds were they suddenly become all buddy buddy after getting beat up once. Okuyasu is also of this fairly one-note obnoxious bonehead type that I don't find appealing to follow at all. Many of the other stand users have still too simple, evil intentions, again, until they're beat. There isn't much to, say, Akira Otoishi or Keichou Nijimura.
Overall it's alright. I really only liked the Joseph episodes as far as character development is confirmed. And he's been weirdly out of the picture since.
It's more so that the narrative has me bored. There's not really any story to speak of. 'Stand encounter of the week' with merely hints of something bigger looming. The concept of that Bow and Arrow being passed around and our protagonist obviously always failing to get their hands on them, is lame. It's even structured in a way that makes it feel as though nothing major is happening. Episodes often start out with 2-3 of our characters just walking around until they randomly encounter other stand users.
I think the main point of contention for DiU is the formula where people wander into Stand battles like its Street Fighter. For me, thats perfect because it allows a variety of fights with different characters.
But I think everyone knows at this point that I'd die on the hill of monster of the week/episodic/anthology series. I'll defend them forever, as long as they're good.
For such an old, influential and popular series JoJo still works almost counterpoint to your standard battle shonen.
If you think of the evolution from Phantom Blood to Stardust Crusaders to Steel Ball Run to JoJolion its absurd. I say it a lot, but I can't believe that no one ever did the parts system that Araki made. Yes there are series that have time skips or have generational stories but they don't shift EIGHT times. To be fair, Araki has had 30 years and can do whatever he wants. I'd assume he has mangaka tenure by now.
No one else seems to be able to keep on coming up with ideas and abilities that have no analogue, other authors just like to take the astral projection aspect of stands and can't keep up with any more creative ideas. Araki is just one lively creative person for his age.
I think the main point of contention for DiU is the formula where people wander into Stand battles like its Street Fighter. For me, thats perfect because it allows a variety of fights with different characters.
But I think everyone knows at this point that I'd die on the hill of monster of the week/episodic/anthology series. I'll defend them forever, as long as they're good.
One thing I really enjoy about Diamond is Unbreakable is that the Stand users have individual and wildly varying motivations. It's not just "I want to kill you because I am a Bad Guy." Even Angelo at the beginning of the series was looking to get revenge on the police officer who put him away. It makes the series feel organic.
This show really knows how to make strong, emotional scenes. Its real strength though is how it manages to make everything seem natural and down to earth, despite its premise. Naho is a fantastic character, and the show showcased very well how powerless she is. It's interesting that Suwa is basically a reverse Naho, as he had to give up things for Kakeru's happiness. Truly the best.
This show is actually similar to Erased. It didn't reach its peak yet, but fortunately it lacks Erased's weaknesses. And the killer in this one is actually interesting and it doesn't need red eyes to be something scary. Depression is just pure evil. Considering the former show's popularity, it's a shame a lot of people don't enjoy Orange or ignore it.
One thing I really enjoy about Diamond is Unbreakable is that the Stand users have individual and wildly varying motivations. It's not just "I want to kill you because I am a Bad Guy." Even Angelo at the beginning of the series was looking to get revenge on the police officer who put him away. It makes the series feel organic.
Yeah that's one of the more refreshing things in Part 4, showing that some Stand users realize they could make money or do illegal things easily with their Stands but still run into conflict just because Stand users attract
They could have chosen Mastodon's Blood and Thunder, but that ringtone did its job pretty well. White Fox is doing a terrific job with this adaption.
Good episode with a great ending which created high expectations for the next one. Subaru decided to use his brain and the results were positive. It was time. And Crusch killed it with that speech.
Stand abilities are extremly specific to every single stand user, every single one of them has their own ruleset who no one can guess without seeing it in action. That's why dealing with one is extremly dangerous and one has to go to extreme lengths to even figure out what the power is they have. Also Weather report makes Storm from X-men look like a middleschool dropout vs someone with multiple PhDs.
edit:
I even forgot he is the one doing that, every non-jojo protagonist wouldn't know what to do and be a crying wreck of a person on the floor when confronted with this.
A) I'm more talking about "range vs. power", "does hurting the Stand hurt the user", etc. in terms of rules. Those are things that should can be consistent across Stands (or at least types of Stands) without hurting their creativity but aren't and that can be kind of annoying.
Re:Zero - 19
Even though this was just a set up episode, it was really good.
Looks like we will have to wait for another week for the boss fight, but like I said the episode is great, so I don't really mind.
P) but I dunno how you get to "EDGY". Maybe that poster wants minority opinions to be better explained or defended? But even then that will likely just end in a "agree to disagree".That post feels like something someone would post if they felt dogpiled because were a big SAO fan around these parts
