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[Anth0ny]

I am completely serious.

Sakurai set FD-type stages as the competitive standard. I think that's clear.

I am "getting this from" 766 1v1 battles with Bowser that I've done so far.

Sakurai's ideals have never meant shit for competitive Smash. For Glory mode doesn't suddenly change that.

And having played thousands of matches at the tournament level in Melee and Brawl, and hundreds in Smash 64 and 3DS, I can assure you that every character has their advantages and disadvantages on any given stage. This is why the counterpick system exists for Smash.

It is totally unfair to expect everyone to play FD just because you feel your character does well on that stage. The same way you are losing your Bowser Bomb punish on Battlefield, Sheik is losing her tippered up smash setup on FD by not having platforms. I can go on forever listing stage specific setups/punishes/techniques for every character, but I hope you get the point. I'm sure Bowser doesn't become shit tier just because he's not on his best stage. Expecting only one stage to be legal just because your character excels there is crazy. Not even Mew2King, who dominates his opponents with Marth on Final Destination specifically would say such a thing

 

[Grakl]

Japan only used 3 stages competitively in Brawl (Final Destination, Battlefield, and Smashville). Which makes Sakurai's decision to include a FD mode for each stage more understandable.

Oh yeah, I'm fine with the decision and I like FD mode. That just doesn't decide for people what they have to (or should) choose outside of For Glory, hah.

 

[Anth0ny]

I seem to recall Dreamland 64 being the only legal Melee stage in Japan for a while (hold over from the Smash 64 ruleset?). It became FD only later.

 

[OricWindstar]

I seem to recall Dreamland 64 being the only legal Melee stage in Japan for a while (hold over from the Smash 64 ruleset?). It became FD only later.

That's so crazy to me. I only learned about FD only in Japan from 3DS streamed tournaments.

Also, I'd love for there to be a HD version of it brought to Smash 4, which seems more likely with the Congo Jungle reveal. Any indication of if that has been visually upgraded at all?

 

[Karsticles]

How does one engage in "wife time" while surfing GAF?

She is asleep now. :-O

She just wanted to cuddle while she falls asleep.

Also, would you be interested in doing an extensive training mode where we each take turns figuring things out about our characters? It would go like this: I tell you to do X while I do Y. This lets me figure something out that I have been wondering. Then you get a turn, and I am your training dummy while you figure something out.

Yeah, I'm talking about the final match, which had no items on and was designed to be more tournament minded.

Not sure why you're being so aggressive and sarcastic, dude. I'm just trying to defend my point, I mean nothing personal.

I haven't been sarcastic at all. I am always aggressive when I am making an argument. It is nothing personal.

He also tried to remove the competitiveness of this series once before. I'd rather trust the established community.

Eh. The competitive Smash community? It seems pretty confused about everything. Can't even decide on whether to ban a character in the last game, or whether custom moves should be allowed. I don't put much stock in it.

I mean, your other option Karst is to adapt. If you find the stage so limiting, then practice on it or train with another character. That's how everyone else who plays competitively does it.


I only hate it because of the music.

I don't want to play other characters, and I dont want to play this game competitively. I just don't want to get fucked over on a stage counterpick while I am trying to have a good time playing this game online at home. Like I said before, it is just like dark characters on dark stages in Marvel. I don't give a crap if the community bans it or not, but I don't want to spend my time playing blind.

I don't know why everyone keeps talking about tournaments and crap. I was just talking about how I think platforms suck and screw Bowser over.

I'm reading this post over and over and I really don't get what's going on here. Of course match ups and applications of character kit are going to change based on what the stage layout is like. If one option stops being good, clearly that means it's time to invest in other aspects of your character's kit.

Browser doesn't have something in his kit to replace his only projectile.

Sakurai doesn't set the default competitive stages. The community does. You're deluding yourself. I don't think you fundamentally understand why different stages even exist in Smash, which is a very odd position to argue from.

I don't think you know what I am actually talking about.

Sakurai's ideals have never meant shit for competitive Smash. For Glory mode doesn't suddenly change that.

And having played thousands of matches at the tournament level in Melee and Brawl, and hundreds in Smash 64 and 3DS, I can assure you that every character has their advantages and disadvantages on any given stage. This is why the counterpick system exists for Smash.

It is totally unfair to expect everyone to play FD just because you feel your character does well on that stage. The same way you are losing your Bowser Bomb punish on Battlefield, Sheik is losing her tippered up smash setup on FD by not having platforms. I can go on forever listing stage specific setups/punishes/techniques for every character, but I hope you get the point. I'm sure Bowser doesn't become shit tier just because he's not on his best stage. Expecting only one stage to be legal just because your character excels there is crazy. Not even Mew2King, who dominates his opponents with Marth on Final Destination specifically would say such a thing

Dude, you need to read all of my posts. You are homing in on one thing I said, and it wasn't even my main point. Also, Bowser Bomb is created with the intention to combo. The move's tooltip even states such. Losing the functionality of a move completely due to a stage is not the same thing as losing access to a stage specific combo.

 

[Grakl]

S
I don't know why everyone keeps talking about tournaments and crap. I was just talking about how I think platforms suck and screw Bowser over.


Browser doesn't have something in his kit to replace his only projectile.


I don't think you know what I am actually talking about.

Because you brought up tournament and competitive play stuff, talking about Japan using FD only, and Sakurai making it the standard, despite you saying you're not talking about competitive play

You're getting super pissed about other people playing stages they want to and you not getting your way about getting FD all the time. Chill lol

 

[OricWindstar]

She is asleep now. :-O

She just wanted to cuddle while she falls asleep.

Also, would you be interested in doing an extensive training mode where we each take turns figuring things out about our characters? It would go like this: I tell you to do X while I do Y. This lets me figure something out that I have been wondering. Then you get a turn, and I am your training dummy while you figure something out.


I haven't been sarcastic at all. I am always aggressive when I am making an argument. It is nothing personal.


Eh. The competitive Smash community? It seems pretty confused about everything. Can't even decide on whether to ban a character in the last game, or whether custom moves should be allowed. I don't put much stock in it.


I don't want to play other characters, and I dont want to play this game competitively. I just don't want to get fucked over on a stage counterpick while I am trying to have a good time playing this game online at home. Like I said before, it is just like dark characters on dark stages in Marvel. I don't give a crap if the community bans it or not, but I don't want to spend my time playing blind.

I don't know why everyone keeps talking about tournaments and crap. I was just talking about how I think platforms suck and screw Bowser over.


Browser doesn't have something in his kit to replace his only projectile.


I don't think you know what I am actually talking about.

I read the "You mean the E3 invitational that was 4 player FFA with items on?" as sarcastic, but perhaps that is my mistake and I put it in the wrong tone.

Okay, maybe we've been having two different conversations. You don't like playing stages that put your character at a disadvantage, even if another character would benefit from another stage type. That is what I'm getting from all this.

Which is fine. That's a completely fair way to play the game. I don't like playing the game that way. So, agree to disagree I suppose.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Hey so when you guys play with friends is it just omega stages all the time or does BF and Prism Tower get thrown in there too?

I'm curious as to the stage preferences of others.

 

[Karsticles]

Because you brought up tournament and competitive play stuff, talking about Japan using FD only, and Sakurai making it the standard, despite you saying you're not talking about competitive play

You're getting super pissed about other people playing stages they want to and you not getting your way about getting FD all the time. Chill lol

First of all, don't think you know whether I am angry on a forum post. That is moronic. I am laying in bed snuggled into my beautiful wife. There is no anger on my end.

Second, I brought up those points to reinforce my own point, not to argue that tournaments have to follow Sakurai's lead, or something similar. You are flipping my argument around.

I read the "You mean the E3 invitational that was 4 player FFA with items on?", but perhaps that is my mistake and I put it in the wrong tone.

Okay, maybe we've been having two different conversations. You don't like playing stages that put your character at a disadvantage, even if another character would benefit from another stage type. That is what I'm getting from all this.

Which is fine. That's a completely fair way to play the game. I don't like playing the game that way. So, agree to disagree I suppose.

Would you want to play a stage that specifically disabled Mario's fireballs, but no one else's? That is the equivalent of what that stage does to me. I just want to have all of the tools that the character was given available to me. I don't want half of my specials locked out. I think that is pretty reasonable.

 

[FSLink]

Hey so when you guys play with friends is it just omega stages all the time or does BF and Prism Tower get thrown in there too?

I'm curious as to the stage preferences of others.

Mostly fair stages like Battlefield + FD/Omegas, Arena Ferox, Reset Bomb Forest, and a few others. Generally avoid stuff like Pictochat 2 unless we're playing with items.

Also Karst, regarding other people's statements thinking you sound angry as moronic even if you aren't actually angry still makes you sound too aggressive. Which is fine, but you really shouldn't be surprised people think you sound angry when your posts can be read that way due to the over aggressive nature of them. Message boards can make it difficult to read tone and the way you're posting doesn't make it easy to read sometimes. If you don't want people to misread, you should make it more clear.

 

[OricWindstar]

Hey so when you guys play with friends is it just omega stages all the time or does BF and Prism Tower get thrown in there too?

I'm curious as to the stage preferences of others.

With GAF friends, I usually go omegas, with Yoshi's Island, and Prism Tower thrown in unless they've mentioned liking other stages. With IRL friends, pretty much anything outside of stages with crazy hazards, such as Wily's Castle or Warioware.

 

[Karsticles]

Mostly fair stages like Battlefield + FD/Omegas, Arena Ferox, Reset Bomb Forest, and a few others. Generally avoid stuff like Pictochat 2 unless we're playing with items.

I find Reset Bomb Forest hard to see on. All of those grainy bricks confuse my eyes. I might be one of the few on an OG 3DS, though. Maybe it isn't a problem on XLs.

 

[Professor Beef]

I don't want to play other characters, and I dont want to play this game competitively.

Then you should stop bringing up points like this:

I am completely serious.

Sakurai set FD-type stages as the competitive standard. I think that's clear.

 

[FSLink]

I find Reset Bomb Forest hard to see on. All of those grainy bricks confuse my eyes. I might be one of the few on an OG 3DS, though. Maybe it isn't a problem on XLs.

I play on an XL or my HDTV so it isn't an issue for me. I can see it being a bit bad on an OG 3DS though.

 

[Sigismundo]

Hey so when you guys play with friends is it just omega stages all the time or does BF and Prism Tower get thrown in there too?

I'm curious as to the stage preferences of others.

Items on, anything. Items off, mostly follow the 'competitive' stage list (although without counterpicking since who wants to counterpick amongst friends?)

 

[Mumei]

Also, would you be interested in doing an extensive training mode where we each take turns figuring things out about our characters? It would go like this: I tell you to do X while I do Y. This lets me figure something out that I have been wondering. Then you get a turn, and I am your training dummy while you figure something out.

Heh. Maybe an hour ago, but I'm going to bed shortly (3:15 AM D

Eh. The competitive Smash community? It seems pretty confused about everything. Can't even decide on whether to ban a character in the last game, or whether custom moves should be allowed. I don't put much stock in it.

I don't think that's a good reason to dismiss their opinions. You're using one highly contentious issue (whether to ban a character that has dominant match-ups and renders much of the cast useless against his abilities) and another issue that just came up in the newest game, with no time for a consensus to have developed yet, in order to dismiss their opinion where there is widespread consensus.

Edit: And you do usually sound angry when you argue with people. <_<

 

[OricWindstar]

Would you want to play a stage that specifically disabled Mario's fireballs, but no one else's? That is the equivalent of what that stage does to me. I just want to have all of the tools that the character was given available to me. I don't want half of my specials locked out. I think that is pretty reasonable.

I like playing stages that make me use my character in different ways. I'd argue that all of Bowser's specials could work on Battlefield if implemented in a way that took the stage layout into account, but you clearly don't see it that way and I've not used Bowser enough to get too deep into that.

And it's reasonable to play however you want. I'm not trying to say you play the game in an invalid way, but if I was playing with my friends, someone chose Bowser, and then would say things like:

Stop picking bad stages, please. It's driving me nuts.

as if it was some known fact that Yoshi's Island was a bad stage, I would be annoyed. But that person isn't wrong, I just would be less inclined to play with them.

 

[Grakl]

First of all, don't think you know whether I am angry on a forum post. That is moronic. I am laying in bed snuggled into my beautiful wife. There is no anger on my end.

Well, alright. Hard to tell when you're capitalizing a bunch of stuff and whatnot. Moronic is funny, you definitely have an angry tone. Either way you're complaining about stages other than FD wanting to be played by other people and how terrible that is. Learn to adapt.

 

[Karsticles]

Yeah... I don't really know what to do about that. I was pretty sure there was landing lag whether you short-hopped or not, actually. I tend to jump rather than hop for a few reasons: The first is that I often play against characters with projectiles and it feels necessary to do a full jump to get over their projectiles. I know you can short hop over some, but I just don't have the timing down for it and people aren't exactly going to let me practice it on them. And I tend to get shield grabbed against them when I try short hopping and I tend to get away with it (slightly) more when I full hop. I don't know why; maybe I'm spacing the short hops poorly. Or maybe it's my technical issues that are at fault. The second is that even when I intend to short hop, I sometimes don't. I have a tendency to hold buttons after I press them, so tapping it is just completely foreign to how I've been playing games for the last twenty-some years. Relatedly, I have my jumps on X and A, my normal attacks on B and my special attacks on Y. This is as close of an approximation as I can get to how I'd like my control scheme to be on the 3DS, anyway. Anyway, I seem to have trouble making the lateral move from A to B (lol). I tried jump Y before, and I have much more facility with pulling off the short-hopped aerials, but it means that using my special becomes completely counterintuitive.

TL;DR I have lots of technical issues stemming from mediocre button-pressing ability

I just found this.

I don't tap anything. I slide my thumb from X to A as fast as possible. I also have trouble tapping. I mess up short hop into air dodge all the time.

There is no lag on the short hop into fair. I tested it quite a bit. At least, nothing more than normal landing lag. Maybe I can show you tomorrow.

Then you should stop bringing up points like this:

I said that specifically in response to someone asking why I said FD is the default stage type. It wasn't something I brought up as a main point.

 

[Mumei]

Rosalina KOs Bowser with an utilt (I think?) at 110%.

Just more evidence that Rosalina is pure evil.

 

[BorkBork]

Any good way to upload replay videos onto youtube?

 

[Karsticles]

Just more evidence that Rosalina is pure evil.

I really don't get the hate. She is tough, but the character that pisses me off the most is Captain Falcon. His jabs are the only ones that go through Bowser's hyper armor.

I am about 50/50 on Rosalina fights, and I can't pretend I really understand how to handle her yet. I really dislike her attack animations. They are the kind of animations that make it hard for me to tell what she is doing, like Guy in SF4 or Nova in Marvel. Or anyone one in BlazBlue.

 

[FSLink]

I really don't get the hate. She is tough, but the character that pisses me off the most is Captain Falcon. His jabs are the only ones that go through Bowser's hyper armor.

I am about 50/50 on Rosalina fights, and I can't pretend I really understand how to handle her yet. I really dislike her attack animations. They have the kind of animations that make it hard for me to tell what she is doing, like Guy in SF4 or Nova in Marvel. Or anyone one in BlazBlue.

She can easily nullify projectiles with ease and has good aerials with deceptive range with great KO power. That's without getting into the stuff you can do with Luma.

I don't hate her but with some of my characters like Ness and Megaman... she can really shut down a lot of my gameplan. She can easily gimp Ness's recovery too.

 

[Professor Beef]

Would you want to play a stage that specifically disabled Mario's fireballs, but no one else's? That is the equivalent of what that stage does to me. I just want to have all of the tools that the character was given available to me. I don't want half of my specials locked out. I think that is pretty reasonable.

Adapt, then. Some characters do poorly against others, and on certain stages. That's the name of the game. It's just like Street Fighter. Yeah I'd love to be able to do what I want against Blanka using Hawk, but I can't, so I have to learn the matchup.

 

[Mumei]

I really don't get the hate. She is tough, but the character that pisses me off the most is Captain Falcon. His jabs are the only ones that go through Bowser's hyper armor.

I am about 50/50 on Rosalina fights, and I can't pretend I really understand how to handle her yet. I really dislike her attack animations. They are the kind of animations that make it hard for me to tell what she is doing, like Guy in SF4 or Nova in Marvel. Or anyone one in BlazBlue.

What FSLink said is part of it. She also has [what seems like] easy interrupts on any momentum I get going because of Luma, and I haven't fought a character that's harder to recover to the ledge against than some of her better players. I also find that she's difficult for me to approach, and the fact that her dodges teleport her makes it more difficult to punish her since I can't see where she's going. And she can kill at absurdly low percents.

 

[Karsticles]

Well, alright. Hard to tell when you're capitalizing a bunch of stuff and whatnot. Moronic is funny, you definitely have an angry tone. Either way you're complaining about stages other than FD wanting to be played by other people and how terrible that is.

I type in caps for emphasis, and I am posting on my phone, so adding italics is a lot of work. Moronic is condescending, not angry. I look down on people all day long without feeling angry.

She can easily nullify projectiles with ease and has good aerials with deceptive range with great KO power. That's without getting into the stuff you can do with Luma.

I don't hate her but with some of my characters like Ness and Megaman... she can really shut down a lot of my gameplan. She can easily gimp Ness's recovery too.

Can she just suck up PK Thunder?

I can see how she would be annoying for a projectile character. She dies at low %. I think she dies from a Klaw at 90%. But the Luma breaks her out of grabs. -_-

I usually play a slow game of dash attack and fire breath punishes. Then, once she is in kill range, I try to take out Luma and just go ham on Rosalina. I am not always successful, but it works often.

I have actually thought about maining her, because I love puppet characters.

Adapt, then. Some characters do poorly against others, and on certain stages. That's the name of the game. It's just like Street Fighter. Yeah I'd love to be able to do what I want against Blanka using Hawk, but I can't, so I have to learn the matchup.

Hey, no grief on my end about character matchups. But I want to play against the character, not the stage.

What FSLink said is part of it. She also has [what seems like] easy interrupts on any momentum I get going because of Luma, and I haven't fought a character that's harder to recover to the ledge against than some of her better players. I also find that she's difficult for me to approach, and the fact that her dodges teleport her makes it more difficult to punish her since I can't see where she's going. And she can kill at absurdly low percents.

I think you just have to prioritize hitting Luma as well. I do think that Luma shouldnt be able to attack when Rosalina is in hitstun or grabbed.

 

[OricWindstar]

Hey, no grief on my end about character matchups. But I want to play against the character, not the stage.

But part of match ups is the stage. Even amongst the omega versions, certain characters get benefits from the way the bottom of the stage is shaped. In other fighting games (outside of something like Injustice), stages don't matter because all of them are identical from a gameplay standpoint. There is no stage that's completely neutral in Smash because even omega-varients have different factors.

 

[Karsticles]

But part of match ups is the stage. Even amongst the omega versions, certain characters get benefits from the way the bottom of the stage is shaped. In other fighting games (outside of something like Injustice), stages don't matter because all of them are identical from a gameplay standpoint. There is no stage that's completely neutral in Smash because even omega-varients have different factors.

It is best to minimize such issues, though, don't you think?

 

[OricWindstar]

It is best to minimize such issues, though, don't you think?

But limiting it to FD isn't the solution.

What would your solution be if you and I played on a regular basis and I used a character that benefited from platforms being present; this means that Final Destination makes some of my moves way less useful. Much like you with Bowser, I really don't want to use anyone else. Do I just deal with it?

 

[FSLink]

Yeah she can suck up PK Thunder and ruin Ness's recovery. It's not even that difficult to do.

I usually use Little Mac against Rosalina since ftilt near the edge on Luma can easily KO Luma. Have to be careful not to get off the edge though, Rosalina's fair stays out for days making it really easy to gimp Mac early on.
But yeah... the thing is, unlike puppet characters in other fighting games without Luma, Rosalina is still pretty decent without Luma.

 

[Karsticles]

But limiting it to FD isn't the solution.

What would your solution be if you and I played on a regular basis and I used a character that benefited from platforms being present; this means that Final Destination makes some of my moves way less useful. Much like you with Bowser, I really don't want to use anyone else. Do I just deal with it?

It is so important for you to differentiate between less useful and non-functional. If your moves no longer functioned on FD, then we would need to find a compromise. Thankfully, there are no such situations.

Yeah she can suck up PK Thunder and ruin Ness's recovery. It's not even that difficult to do.

I usually use Little Mac against Rosalina since ftilt near the edge on Luma can easily KO Luma. Have to be careful not to get off the edge though, Rosalina's fair stays out for days making it really easy to gimp Mac early on.
But yeah... the thing is, unlike puppet characters in other fighting games without Luma, Rosalina is still pretty decent without Luma.

Good to know.

 

[OricWindstar]

It is so important for you to differentiate between less useful and non-functional. If your moves no longer functioned on FD, then we would need to find a compromise. Thankfully, there are no such situations.

If Battlefield ever ignores your inputs for certain moves, I will agree with you 100%.

 

[Grakl]

It is so important for you to differentiate between less useful and non-functional. If your moves no longer functioned on FD, then we would need to find a compromise. Thankfully, there are no such situations.

Lol

 

[Monster Zero]

Anyone up for a round of fisticuffs?

0275-9670-9228

 

[Karsticles]

If Battlefield ever ignores your inputs for certain moves, I will agree with you 100%.

There are more ways for a move to not function than ignoring inputs.

Lol

Roughly on par with the quality of the rest of your posts.

 

[FSLink]

It is so important for you to differentiate between less useful and non-functional. If your moves no longer functioned on FD, then we would need to find a compromise. Thankfully, there are no such situations.


Good to know.

lmao what, Bowser Bomb is still usable on Battlefield, just less useful.
Sorry, don't have sympathy here for you losing a situational punish on a certain stage. This does not make the move non-functional.

 

[Grakl]

There are more ways for a move to not function than ignoring inputs.


Roughly on par with the quality of the rest of your posts.

You being petty doesn't get you anywhere. Exaggerating a ton about how Bowser's moves can't function on stages with platforms is just really funny. Congrats on being condescending because people don't always want to play the stage you want when playing for fun.

 

[Karsticles]

lmao what, Bowser Bomb is still usable on Battlefield, just less useful.

As a ledge grab, but that is about it.

You being petty doesn't get you anywhere. Exaggerating a ton about how Bowser's moves can't function on stages with platforms is just really funny. Congrats on being condescending because people don't always want to play the stage you want when playing for fun.

Honesty is not being petty. I don't even know who you are. You seem so confused about what the conversation is about. Take it easy.

 

[FSLink]

As a ledge grab, but that is about it.

Also a punish against aerial moves at certain distances. It becomes way more situational but that does not make it non-functional.

 

[OricWindstar]

There are more ways for a move to not function than ignoring inputs.

What move is it? Bowser Bomb? Less useful than on FD, true, but absolutely still something you can use with proper set up. Fire Breath? As you showed when we were playing, it's a great edge guarding tool, so would still work on Battlefield in some capacity. Up B? Still works if they are on the same plane as you, which will happen even if there are platforms. Side B? Still works, even as a great aerial move. Not necessarily as well as on Final Destination, but all of these have some use to them. Much like for some characters Battlefield would make certain moves work better, while FD would limit it.

The main thing that started this debate for me was this:

A platformless stage can't be a hindrence.

And I just don't find that to be true. Again, nothing personal, I just find this a really odd way of looking at it.

Anyone up for a round of fisticuffs?

0275-9670-9228

Me! My code is in my profile. EDIT: Duh, we're already friends. I'll make a room.

 

[Flowmoney]

Anyone up for a round of fisticuffs?

0275-9670-9228

I'll play ya man , you handle hosting the matches

1590-4823-0640

Edit:beaten

 

[Karsticles]

Also a punish against aerial moves at certain distances. It becomes way more situational but that does not make it non-functional.

People who get hit by Bowser Bomb in the air need to be more careful. I say that as a general claim, not stage-specific.

What move is it? Bowser Bomb? Less useful than on FD, true, but absolutely still something you can use with proper set up. Fire Breath? As you showed when we were playing, it's a great edge guarding tool, so would still work on Battlefield in some capacity. Up B? Still works if they are on the same plane as you, which will happen even if there are platforms. Side B? Still works, even as a great aerial move. Not necessarily as well as on Final Destination, but all of these have some use to them. Much like for some characters Battlefield would make certain moves work better, while FD would limit it.

The main thing that started this debate for me was this:



And I just don't find that to be true. Again, nothing personal, I just find this a really odd way of looking at it.

Me! My code is in my profile.

Browser Bomb. No, the setups don't work.

The context of Fire Breath was in regards to whether it can be used as a spacing tool against projectiles on that stage. It is a loss of Bowser's only answer to projectiles. A major one.

Side B is better on Battlefield than FD because of the platforms.

Up B is about the same. Though the dip in the ramp on Yoshi's Island, which sparked this conversation, screws up Bowser's air dodge cancel tech. So Yoshi's Island completely removes an entire game mechanic from Bowser, and in this case, only Bowser.

Edit: Going to bed. In conclusion, FD > BF > YI.

 

[Monster Zero]

I'm hosting

 

[OricWindstar]

Browser Bomb. No, the setups don't work.

The context of Fire Breath was in regards to whether it can be used as a spacing tool against projectiles on that stage. It is a loss of Bowser's only answer to projectiles. A major one.

Side B is better on Battlefield than FD because of the platforms.

Up B is about the same. Though the dip in the ramp on Yoshi's Island, which sparked this conversation, screws up Bowser's air dodge cancel tech. So Yoshi's Island completely removes an entire game mechanic from Bowser, and in this case, only Bowser.

Well, I don't know the ins and outs of Bowser, but even so, the only one in the post you put as not useable is Bowser Bomb, but you gave it a use as a ledge grabbing tool in a previous post. Much worse, yes, but it still has a function. Even if it did, taking away a move doesn't totally make a character unplayable. It just requires a different tactic. And if does literally make them unplayable, then that doesn't explain Bowser's I've seen do fine on Battlefield.

"It is so important for you to differentiate between less useful and non-functional." Yes, it is, because that's the argument you're making. Some moves aren't going to work as well on Battlefield, I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying the same thing will happen to certain characters on FD and that makes playing on both a more fair trade off.

Well, I guess that debate is done. I actually enjoyed this conversation quite a bit! Sorry if I misread any of your comments as overly aggressive.

 

[HawthorneKitty]

#can'tadapt?

 

[JoeInky]

Can't Bowser UpB through most projectiles with minimal endlag? Surely he has other options for projectiles than just the fire breath.


Yoshi's Island massively fucks up with Ness' grounded PK Fire at times, doesn't mean FD should be the only option.

 

[SuperBowser]

eww, battlefield and yoshi's island are not "unfair stages". Refusing to adapt to stages with platforms and learning the match ups is ridiculous. You actually typed your character can't do 50% of his moves in battlefield.

Like, what?

 

[OricWindstar]

Haha, not my best match. I gotta stop spamming Counter! I don't even think to do it, it's just in my muscle memory to do that every time I get nervous.

 

[Monster Zero]

Haha, not my best match. I gotta stop spamming Counter! I don't even think to do it, it's just in my muscle memory to do that every time I get nervous.

Yea, you gotta cut that out lol

 

[OricWindstar]

Oh man, please don't let this be the start of another SD marathon. :O