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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS |OT3| Little Mac and Cheese

N

nerdbot

Member
SenorArdilla said:
Japan only used 3 stages competitively in Brawl (Final Destination, Battlefield, and Smashville). Which makes Sakurai's decision to include a FD mode for each stage more understandable.
Click to expand...

You gotta understand too that in Brawl, Final Destination was far and away the most picked stage for online matches. This, I believe, was even cited as the specific reason Omega forms were created.

Though not without its problems, I think For Glory/For Fun is a good setup, and the only improvement I could offer is for them to add Battlefield into the Glory lineup and more stock battle options. Everything else is pretty much aces as is.
 
A

A Link to the Past

Banned
Man, I can't wait for when someone discovers how to do a Project M 2 with the Wii U version :v I like the roster, but the engine just doesn't feel solid enough for me to play it for serious like I do with Melee or Project M.
 
N

nerdbot

Member
Captain Rage Quit 69 said:
Hey so when you guys play with friends is it just omega stages all the time or does BF and Prism Tower get thrown in there too?

I'm curious as to the stage preferences of others.
Click to expand...

My friends and I have a competitive lineup of FD/BF/Prism Tower/Tomodachi Life/Yoshi's Island (occasionally Arena Ferox) and sometimes we'll do Nintendogs.

I think we'll be more open to playing gimmick maps on the Wii U.
 
N

nerdbot

Member
A Link to the Snitch said:
Man, I can't wait for when someone discovers how to do a Project M 2 with the Wii U version :v I like the roster, but the engine just doesn't feel solid enough for me to play it for serious like I do with Melee or Project M.
Click to expand...

I think the engine is perfect, but I'm still kinda hoping for Wii U hacks just so I can install goofy costumes.

I don't think it'll be blown open near as quickly as the Wii was though.

(I'm posting a lot! Sorry! Shit!)
 
A

A Link to the Past

Banned
nerdbot said:
I think the engine is perfect, but I'm still kinda hoping for Wii U hacks just so I can install goofy costumes.

I don't think it'll be blown open near as quickly as the Wii was though.

(I'm posting a lot! Sorry! Shit!)
Click to expand...

I like what they did with balance, none of the characters feel too good or too bad (yet), but some small tweaks would make it a lot better, like smaller blast zones and proper DI. I wonder if Stage Builder can shrink the blast zones?
 
J

JoeInky

Member
The game as a whole is quite good but there's a massive laundry list of minor changes that add up that I'd change about the game if I was to make a mod.

I'd probably end up changing how a lot of the moves work in the game in a minor way as well now that I think about it.



I really want to make a smash style fighting game that just focuses on the characters and stages without any of the extraneous stuff in Smash that I'm not interested in.

I'd love a Smash game that solely focused on characters, items and stages. I feel like Sakurai keeps trying to one-up himself in terms of the breadth of the content and as a consequence it feels like it sacrifices the depth of it.

I know people are excited about the new content like 8 player smash, the board game mode and whatever, but I'm just not interested in it. I would have rather they just let us choose individual characters per stock like they do in the final battle of Smash Tour (and in PM all star mode), that's something that would have been of way more interest to me.
 
S

SuperSah

Banned
If I could change some stuff about Smash 3DS:

- Stages, we need more.
- May as well give all fighters a counter since a lot of them already have one.
 
J

JoeInky

Member
If I had to come up with a general list of changes I'd make to the game, based on what I thought would make it more fun as a competitive fighter without thinking to much about the overall balance of the game in FFA or 8 player or whatever, it would look like this:

-Momentum conservation reimplemented.
-Dash Dancing revert back to as it was in Melee/Brawl (I find it hilarious that people were happy that dash dancing was gone from the game, only for it to be discovered again and using more complicated/unintuitive inputs than in previous iterations, now they have to deal with a still useful mechanic that's harder to perform - change it back to Melee/Brawl style inputs).
-Shield recharge rate is reduced to like, a quarter of the rate or something.
-Shield recharges a small amount for every percent of damage you do to your opponent.
-Perfect shielding reflects projectiles rather than just changing their direction again.
-Shielding has slightly higher endlag.
-Rolls have more endlag.
-Only one air dodge per air time, doesn't put you into special fall.
-Landing lag on air dodge removed to make up for the above change.
-All moves in the game have reduced endlag on hit (which includes landing lag for aerials), this includes neutrals, aerials and specials. Missing completely has default endlag.
-For projectile attacks the endlag animation would speed up as soon as the projectile connects.
-Blast zones decreased.
-DI reverted to previous iterations, but uses the more intuitive inputs of KBI instead of having to press perpendicular directions.
-DI angle of influence increased.
-Can no longer tech grounded meteor smashes, only ones where you were hit in the air.
-Crouch cancelling reimplemented.
-The way the game handles inputs for A attacks is changed to add a bit more variety to the ground game, meaning you can do Jab1 -> Jab2 -> Tilt in quick succession rather than being forced to do Jab1 -> Jab2 -> Jab3 for example.
-The game shows if a player character is wearing custom equipment on all modes as it should.
-Throws can be now be broken out of by pressing the opposite directional input within six frames as the thrower, putting the person that was going to get thrown at a frame advantage
-Grab timer is increased so that you can actually hold someone for a decent amount of time.
Click to expand...

And that's just quickly thinking for 5 minutes before even getting into what I'd change about or add to the characters, stages, items, assists, final smashes, bosses, customs moves, modes, etc specifically. Would probably be a list 20-30 times the size if I ended up doing that lol.
 
S

Shamrock7r

Member
Karsticles said:
IMO, Final Destination is the only good stage type. Even Battlefield cuts off so many options. I don't know why people praise it. Everyone just fights to get the bottom flat platform on it anyway.
Click to expand...

Fully disagree. I would argue BF could be a better neutral than FD. It sounds more like you refuse to, or just don't know how to adapt your playstyle. I would also argue that you don't seem to fully know the Bowser character. His killing potential on BF is ridiculous in part because of the platforms. Don't hate the game, hate the player.
 
S

Spinosaurus

Member
Bowser is way scarier and more threatening on Battlefield. Koopa Claw is a command grab in the air so he can mix it up with platforms. His utilt and upsmash also makes you way respect his options under a platform, and he gets a whole lot outta of fair and Bowser Bomb with platforms.

Yoshi is another character that I do not wanna fight against on Battlefield lol.
 
S

SuperBowser

Member
Your jigglypuff is awesome! Nice to see the jiggles is back for this game.

Couldn't work out how to approach you with yoshi so had to switch to Ludwig!

The more I play good players, the more I feel yoshi has been overrated this game. The lack of a viable shield grab makes it so difficult to fight some characters. Yoshi is yet to win a tournament (while the other supposed high tier characters have consistently made it to the top).
 
E

ec0ec0

Member
JoeInky said:
And that's just quickly thinking for 5 minutes...
Click to expand...

One of the first things that i would change about the game (not before things as crucial as momentum conservation or landing lag, though) would be to dramatically reduce the vertical/horizontal distance that recovery moves (upBs, sideBs) can travel. As it is now, when you throw someone of stage, you are just waiting for them to come back. It doesnt feel like smash bros.
 
S

Spinosaurus

Member
ec0ec0 said:
One of the first things that i would change about the game (not before things as crucial as momentum conservation or landing lag, though) would be to dramatically reduce the vertical/horizontal distance that recovery moves (upBs, sideBs) can travel. As it is now, when you throw someone of stage, you are just waiting for them to come back. It doesnt feel like smash bros.
Click to expand...
That's why you chase off stage.
 
G

Geminosity

Member
JoeInky said:
If I had to come up with a general list of changes I'd make to the game, based on what I thought would make it more fun as a competitive fighter without thinking to much about the overall balance of the game in FFA or 8 player or whatever, it would look like this:

-DI reverted to previous iterations, but uses the more intuitive inputs of KBI instead of having to press perpendicular directions.

And that's just quickly thinking for 5 minutes before even getting into what I'd change about or add to the characters, stages, items, assists, final smashes, bosses, customs moves, modes, etc specifically. Would probably be a list 20-30 times the size if I ended up doing that lol.
Click to expand...

Really? I find it much more intuitive to press against the force than at a 90 degree angle to it. Watching less experienced players play, if they do actually attempt any influence, their natural inclination appears to be what the new VI caters to.

If you're serious about your vision of smash you should honestly give making something a shot. It's easier now than ever to make your own things with tools like Unity, Game maker, Construct and whatnot and I feel that hobbist game-creation can be a very rewarding and eye-opening thing more people should get into :3
You don't even have to make a finished thing: just start with a simple prototype with boxes or whatever :D
 
M

Makai

Member
I really like how little endlag there is on shielddrop, because it means I can approach projectile users. Falcon vs. Falco was awful in Melee.
 
A

astrogamer

Member
Finally got my final Smash Run power and completed all the challenges. Now standing at 683 trophies and over 800 custom items and 314 custom moves
 
J

JoeInky

Member
Geminosity said:
Really? I find it much more intuitive to press against the force than at a 90 degree angle to it. Watching less experienced players play, if they do actually attempt any influence, their natural inclination appears to be what the new VI caters to.

If you're serious about your vision of smash you should honestly give making something a shot. It's easier now than ever to make your own things with tools like Unity, Game maker, Construct and whatnot and I feel that hobbist game-creation can be a very rewarding and eye-opening thing more people should get into :3
You don't even have to make a finished thing: just start with a simple prototype with boxes or whatever :D
Click to expand...

That's what I meant, normal DI but with the KBI/VI style inputs. Basically what it is now but you can't affect the distance you travel.

And believe me I'm well versed in game maker, I've been using it for years now made quite a few games in the past and even made money out of it.

Problem is I've since become a massive perfectionist and can no longer finish a game due to focusing on the minutia to the extent that I'll end up scrapping it and starting again from scratch (I've done this 12 times now for a single game that I've still not finished for example).

It doesn't help that I have to do everything myself and can't just use programmer art for example, if it doesn't look good first time then it's crap in my mind.

It really sucks because it's completely ruined game dev for me as well as a few other aspects of my life after several years of doing it..
 
S

SuperBowser

Member
fun games Joe. Learnt a lot, but not sure which character to take for the tournament on Friday still.

I still don't know how to use villager's up B which makes me sad. Sometimes I don't get any height but I don't know why.


edit: The biggest changes to the game I'd make would be adding a more lag to the fast rolling champions, decreasing blast zones and reducing landing lag for aerials for several characters. While this game is infinitely more interesting to watch than Brawl, I think there are still relatively few options against some characters that defend all day.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Mumei, would you want to do training mode today?

Shamrock7r said:
Fully disagree. I would argue BF could be a better neutral than FD. It sounds more like you refuse to, or just don't know how to adapt your playstyle. I would also argue that you don't seem to fully know the Bowser character. His killing potential on BF is ridiculous in part because of the platforms. Don't hate the game, hate the player.
Click to expand...
The Klaw KOs better, but it isn't worth picking the stage for.

JoeInky said:
Can't Bowser UpB through most projectiles with minimal endlag? Surely he has other options for projectiles than just the fire breath.


Yoshi's Island massively fucks up with Ness' grounded PK Fire at times, doesn't mean FD should be the only option.
Click to expand...
Browser's Up B clinks with most projectiles, and it usually doesn't leave him at a favorable frame advantage due to the projectile's travel time.

As far as is known, Bowser has three options against projectiles:
1) Fire Breath destroys low grade projectiles and can be angled downward after a jump for a nice approach. I think this is his best option.

2) Air dodge canceled into a special gets him in and opens people up, but if they expect it, it can be unsafe.

3) Bowser can punch low grade projectiles to destroy them, since his punches are slightly disjointed hitboxes.

If there are other options unique to Bowser, I would love to know them. I think his options are just fine. I just think that losing two of them on one stage is a big problem, and Yoshi's Island takes away 1 and 2.
 
S

SuperBowser

Member
But bowser is super strong on battlefield. It's a stage where he can literally shut down a large portion of the cast if he knocks them off the ground and sits in the middle.
 
S

Shamrock7r

Member
Karsticles said:
Mumei, would you want to do training mode today?


The Klaw KOs better, but it isn't worth picking the stage for.


Browser's Up B clinks with most projectiles, and it usually doesn't leave him at a favorable frame advantage due to the projectile's travel time.

As far as is known, Bowser has three options against projectiles:
1) Fire Breath destroys low grade projectiles and can be angled downward after a jump for a nice approach. I think this is his best option.

2) Air dodge canceled into a special gets him in and opens people up, but if they expect it, it can be unsafe.

3) Bowser can punch low grade projectiles to destroy them, since his punches are slightly disjointed hitboxes.

If there are other options unique to Bowser, I would love to know them. I think his options are just fine. I just think that losing two of them on one stage is a big problem, and Yoshi's Island takes away 1 and 2.
Click to expand...

Right, inherently you would run into some difficulty with certain moves when platforms are involved, but ultimately there are other options that open up for a character. I regularly played Bowser in Brawl, and in my opinion his strongest stages were the ones with low platforms like Battlefield and Yoshi's Island. Some characters will be naturally better on a FD like stage, while others will be better on a stage with platforms. One isn't necessarily superior over the other, which is why we counterpick, and it adds a very interesting, competitively viable dynamic to the game.

If you are free, we can play a few and I'd love to see what your Bowser is capable of on FD and other stages.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Shamrock7r said:
Right, inherently you would run into some difficulty with certain moves when platforms are involved, but ultimately there are other options that open up for a character. I regularly played Bowser in Brawl, and in my opinion his strongest stages were the ones with low platforms like Battlefield and Yoshi's Island. Some characters will be naturally better on a FD like stage, while others will be better on a stage with platforms. One isn't necessarily superior over the other, which is why we counterpick, and it adds a very interesting, competitively viable dynamic to the game.

If you are free, we can play a few and I'd love to see what your Bowser is capable of on FD and other stages.
Click to expand...
I mostly play traditional fighting games, so I don't like adapting to a stage. I like having consistency in my play. Really, if BF were consistently the competitve choice, I would take that over variety.

My FC is in my profile. You are welcome to add me and PM me yours.
 
H

Hero Prinny

Member
nerdbot said:
You gotta understand too that in Brawl, Final Destination was far and away the most picked stage for online matches. This, I believe, was even cited as the specific reason Omega forms were created.

Though not without its problems, I think For Glory/For Fun is a good setup, and the only improvement I could offer is for them to add Battlefield into the Glory lineup and more stock battle options. Everything else is pretty much aces as is.
Click to expand...
And also let me use custom moves. You can disable power ups but pls give me custom moves online
 
S

SuperBowser

Member
Beelzebufo said:
Okay, I can see why people like Yoshi so much, but I'm having difficulty KOing with him. Does anyone have any tips?
Click to expand...

It depends on the character, but Yoshi has plenty of KO moves this game. The problem is getting the opportunity to use them.

Uair, Usmash, Bair, Fair, Fsmash are his main kill moves.

Yoshi is dangerous when somebody is above him or horizontal to him when they are off the stage. Creating these situations is the best way for a kill - down throw, u tilt, egg throw, dash attack are the best set ups for that. You can also just run Usmash if the opponents use laggy moves or you read them.
 
S

Shamrock7r

Member
Karsticles said:
I mostly play traditional fighting games, so I don't like adapting to a stage. I like having consistency in my play. Really, if BF were consistently the competitve choice, I would take that over variety.

My FC is in my profile. You are welcome to add me and PM me yours.
Click to expand...

Adding you now

0301 9856 6792

Did you want to play now?
 
C

Cranzor

Junior Member
I love hitting projectiles back with Ness's bat. I kept hitting back missiles against a Samus yesterday and it seemed pretty effective. Makes the opponent question their projectile use, at least!
 
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